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Voss wrote:
Are the autocannons 4d3 shots? (it isn't quite readable)
Honestly, just make it heavy 8 and stop wasting time.

Other than AP on the solid shot, the battlecannon looks really dubious.

Mob Rules reads it right off here:
Autocannon is 48" Heavy 4d3 S7 Ap-1 2dmg

Battlecannon has two profiles :
Sanctified shell 72" Heavy S9 D6 AP-3 3dmg Blast
Pyro shell 72" Heavy 3d3 S6 AP-1 1dmg Blast, ignores cover

3 Heavy Bolters on the chassis as well.

On a side note: Exorcists Missile Launcher lost Blast but since it was 3d3 it was always getting at least 3 shots so now it gains the ability to shoot things that lock it in combat at least. The conflageration missiles still have Blast though.

I'm not crying over a single loss of ap on the 3d3 rockets, but I would have liked to see d2 on the 3d6 variant.

But gaining ignore LOS is great for me. I can budget 2cp.

Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

So it's worth pointing out that Acts of Faith are our monofaction bonus now. We can't gain Miracle Dice for any reason if we have non-Adepta Sororitas keyword models in the army (excluding Cult Imperialis, Agent of the Imperium and Unaligned keywords).

Ebon Chalice's ability doesn't hurt their ability to ally as the Rites aren't locked to mono-Sisters anymore.

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

dammit wrote:
I'm not crying over a single loss of ap on the 3d3 rockets, but I would have liked to see d2 on the 3d6 variant.

But gaining ignore LOS is great for me. I can budget 2cp.

It's the point of toughness that's the problem.

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

Might be shipping delays.

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

Last time it was 2 weeks back to back and 3rd wave almost 2 months later.

tneva82 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

Last time it was 2 weeks back to back and 3rd wave almost 2 months later.

I like how this time they actually planned it out though:

"What should we leave out of the first wave?" "Let's skip on the tank no one will buy and the banner bearer only crusade players care about." "Brilliant!"

ERJAK wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

Last time it was 2 weeks back to back and 3rd wave almost 2 months later.

I like how this time they actually planned it out though:

"What should we leave out of the first wave?" "Let's skip on the tank no one will buy and the banner bearer only crusade players care about." "Brilliant!"

I feel like people outside of Crusade players will like it for the utility of being able to pop all the rites at the same time at will, but you're right, it does a bit more for Crusade.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Ok, from B&C, so not 100% sure about veracity: Castigator Battle Cannon, two profiles, both range 72 first: Heavy D6, S9, AP-3, D3, Blast. Second profile: Heavy 3d3, S6, AP-1, D1, ignore cover.

Wonder if thats what Leman Russes will be getting.

despite people saying the tank is crap, not sure I agree that first round is MADE to kill Marine heavy infantry, if you're in an enviroment where you see a lot of heavy power armor infantry it'll come in handy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

Last time it was 2 weeks back to back and 3rd wave almost 2 months later.

I like how this time they actually planned it out though:

"What should we leave out of the first wave?" "Let's skip on the tank no one will buy and the banner bearer only crusade players care about." "Brilliant!"

hopefully SOBs don't have to wait as long for their stuff as marines and 'crons had to wait for heavy intercessors and flayed ones

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Ok, from B&C, so not 100% sure about veracity: Castigator Battle Cannon, two profiles, both range 72 first: Heavy D6, S9, AP-3, D3, Blast. Second profile: Heavy 3d3, S6, AP-1, D1, ignore cover.

Wonder if thats what Leman Russes will be getting.

despite people saying the tank is crap, not sure I agree that first round is MADE to kill Marine heavy infantry, if you're in an enviroment where you see a lot of heavy power armor infantry it'll come in handy.

It only kill 2-3 per turn. Doesn't feel like enough to be 'made' to kill marines.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Ok, from B&C, so not 100% sure about veracity: Castigator Battle Cannon, two profiles, both range 72 first: Heavy D6, S9, AP-3, D3, Blast. Second profile: Heavy 3d3, S6, AP-1, D1, ignore cover.

Wonder if thats what Leman Russes will be getting.

despite people saying the tank is crap, not sure I agree that first round is MADE to kill Marine heavy infantry, if you're in an enviroment where you see a lot of heavy power armor infantry it'll come in handy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Wave 2 isn't next week (WarCom) - Gaunt’s Ghosts & the Cadian Shock Troops upgrades sprue are.

That’s the second time the Sisters release has randomly been split up with a few weeks between them, if I’m remembering rightly. Weird.

Last time it was 2 weeks back to back and 3rd wave almost 2 months later.

I like how this time they actually planned it out though:

"What should we leave out of the first wave?" "Let's skip on the tank no one will buy and the banner bearer only crusade players care about." "Brilliant!"

hopefully SOBs don't have to wait as long for their stuff as marines and 'crons had to wait for heavy intercessors and flayed ones

The problem with the tank isn't the gun. It's the tank. T7 W11 is an awful statline. That's why people were anticipating the Castigator being bad the second it was announced. Because we all knew it would die to a single stray multimelta.

Hell, a squad of retributors or a squad of eradictors kill 2 castigators out of deepstrike on average. More with good miracle dice.

If GW wants people to take it they either have to give it a better invul or it has to be cheap enough that you can take 3 without chewing up too much of your army. 120-130pts WITH the upgraded cannon.

It does also come with three heavy bolters, if that helps.

But honestly, all tanks should have the max wounds lost per turn mechanic.

dammit wrote:
It does also come with three heavy bolters, if that helps.

But honestly, all tanks should have the max wounds lost per turn mechanic.

-1 damage (min 1) really feels like a rule that should be built into vehicles and monstrous creatures at this point.

ERJAK wrote:


Don't 'think' they'll be deadlier, just do the math. It's not reading tea leaves.

BR Zephyrim vs T4

Old: 3*.667*.75= 1.5 New: 4*.667*.5= 1.33 12% worse for equal toughness

BR Zephyrim vs T3

Old 3*.667*.89= 1.78 New 4*.667*.667= 1.78 Equal for lower toughness

BR Zephyrim vs T5-T7

Old 3*.667*.555= 1.11 New 4*.667*.333= .888 20% worse for higher toughness.

You'll never take them in non-bloody rose lists. Their overpriced stratagem won't change that, especially considering that even with it they do less damage than they do with JUST bloody rose.

Like every other <order> melee unit, you take bloody rose or you don't take that unit.

Can you relax your attitude a little, ERJAK? I'm a bit busy at times and was just making a post. You need to relax, no reason to be so biting to everyone who speaks. And as someone who just never liked BR and continued to bring them, I'll likely continue doing so.

Math wise, we'll do three scenarios: Old Zeph, Recent Zeph, Modern Zeph Squads. Understanding that the Recent Zep Squad had a near 0% chance of remaining. This is Order Agnostic- BR will of course exacerbate any math.

Old Zeph: 21 attacks, WS 3+, S3 re-rolling wounds.
Recent Zeph: 21 attacks, WS 3+, S4 re-rolling wounds.
Modern Zeph: 31 attacks, WS3+, S4 no re-rolling wounds.

T3:
Old- 14 hits, 10.5 wounds.
Recent- 14 hits, 12.4 wounds.
Modern- 20.67 hits, 13.78 wounds.

T4:
Old- 14 hits, 7.8 wounds.
Recent- 14 hits, 10.5 wounds.
Modern- 20.67 hits, 10.4 wounds.

T5:
Old- 14 hits, 7.8 wounds.
Recent- 14 hits, 7.8 wounds.
Modern- 20.67 hits, 6.89 wounds.

T6-7:
Old- 14 hits, 4.4 wounds.
Recent- 14 hits, 7.8 wounds.
Modern- 20.67 hits, 6.89 wounds.

T8+:
Old- 14 hits, 4.4 wounds.
Recent- 14 hits, 4.4 wounds.
Modern- 21 hits, 3.4 wounds.

Might be small math issues, doing it essentially off the top of my head at the moment.

So, Order Agnostic, the Recent Zeph Squad is clearly the best. Except anyone who kept their expectations realistic knew they would change once the Power Sword changed. The only true comparison that could be made is with the original squad, since the in-between stats come from edition weapon changes, not the unit itself. Not pictured here is the one point drop, 2 CP Stratagem for +1 to wound for *any* order that can be used in a key charge, or the BR Strategem that while not as good still works well with the 41 attacks their Zephyrim would get.

you can also give them zealot for 2cp/1cp if in range of a priest.

dammit wrote:
you can also give them zealot for 2cp/1cp if in range of a priest.

Yep. A lot of things you can do. They are less point and click but have wider applications than before with more possible ways of buffing them. I view them mostly as a sidegrade, with a better bottom, more versatility outside one specific Order, at the cost of top-end performance that is harder to achieve.

 Ordana wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Ok, from B&C, so not 100% sure about veracity: Castigator Battle Cannon, two profiles, both range 72 first: Heavy D6, S9, AP-3, D3, Blast. Second profile: Heavy 3d3, S6, AP-1, D1, ignore cover.

Wonder if thats what Leman Russes will be getting.

despite people saying the tank is crap, not sure I agree that first round is MADE to kill Marine heavy infantry, if you're in an enviroment where you see a lot of heavy power armor infantry it'll come in handy.

It only kill 2-3 per turn. Doesn't feel like enough to be 'made' to kill marines.

Are you assuming max shots from BLAST? Because that's the only way I'm seeing that many kills. And loyalists don't come in squads bigger than 10. So that isn't happening.

I think they did the same thing they did with loyalists: they overpriced all of the tanks. Somebody at gw just. Doesn't. Like. Tanks.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Ok, from B&C, so not 100% sure about veracity: Castigator Battle Cannon, two profiles, both range 72 first: Heavy D6, S9, AP-3, D3, Blast. Second profile: Heavy 3d3, S6, AP-1, D1, ignore cover.

Wonder if thats what Leman Russes will be getting.

despite people saying the tank is crap, not sure I agree that first round is MADE to kill Marine heavy infantry, if you're in an enviroment where you see a lot of heavy power armor infantry it'll come in handy.

It only kill 2-3 per turn. Doesn't feel like enough to be 'made' to kill marines.

Are you assuming max shots from BLAST? Because that's the only way I'm seeing that many kills. And loyalists don't come in squads bigger than 10. So that isn't happening.

I think they did the same thing they did with loyalists: they overpriced all of the tanks. Somebody at gw just. Doesn't. Like. Tanks.

I think it's more they don't want to go back to the parking lots of 5th edition, but aren't quite clicking on the idea that if you're going to make something expensive it needs durability or it won't be used.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Ok, from B&C, so not 100% sure about veracity: Castigator Battle Cannon, two profiles, both range 72 first: Heavy D6, S9, AP-3, D3, Blast. Second profile: Heavy 3d3, S6, AP-1, D1, ignore cover.

Wonder if thats what Leman Russes will be getting.

despite people saying the tank is crap, not sure I agree that first round is MADE to kill Marine heavy infantry, if you're in an enviroment where you see a lot of heavy power armor infantry it'll come in handy.

It only kill 2-3 per turn. Doesn't feel like enough to be 'made' to kill marines.

Are you assuming max shots from BLAST? Because that's the only way I'm seeing that many kills. And loyalists don't come in squads bigger than 10. So that isn't happening.

I think they did the same thing they did with loyalists: they overpriced all of the tanks. Somebody at gw just. Doesn't. Like. Tanks.

3.5 shots x (4/6) = 2.33 hits
x (5/6) = 1.94 wounds.
x (5/6) = 1.62 failed saves and dead marines.

Fine, so I was being overly generous by giving it possibly 3 dead. Still the conclusion doesn't change, the gun is bad and not a good marine killer.

Tanks and heavy vehicles would be a lot better if they bumped the toughness top end up so things like Land Raiders, Knights, and monoliths are T12, Russes and Battlewagons at 10, and Predator level vehicles at 9.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Tanks and heavy vehicles would be a lot better if they bumped the toughness top end up so things like Land Raiders, Knights, and monoliths are T12, Russes and Battlewagons at 10, and Predator level vehicles at 9.

I don't think the toughness matters as much. I mean in most cases it just means vehicles are being wounded on 5s or 6s already, it's more the amount of damage being pushed through via weight of fire that causes the problem.

So I haven’t heard, what Were all the nerfs to the Exorcist?

Lotta salt. Interesting to read. At the end of the day, I don't think I'll worry about any of these changes. I love the models, and by the time I get them all built and painted it'll be 10th edition where they'll change the game dramatically again and everyone will be complaining about lists changing again.

 AduroT wrote:
So I haven’t heard, what Were all the nerfs to the Exorcist?

Lost a point of toughness and the rockets lost a pip of AP. The rockets gained ignores cover though, and the Missiles are no longer Blast which means you can give someone an 1812 Overture to the face if they tag it to stop i from shooting the Missiles.

Also all the tanks gained the Hallowed keyword which lets them pop the Thrice Blessed Hull Stat which makes a psyker in 12" who fails to cast a psychic power perils until the end of the phase for 1 CP so that's a thing I guess.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Tanks and heavy vehicles would be a lot better if they bumped the toughness top end up so things like Land Raiders, Knights, and monoliths are T12, Russes and Battlewagons at 10, and Predator level vehicles at 9.

That seems terrible to me. It doubles down on factions who either have worthwhile AT weapons (which leaves several Xenos factions and daemons out in the cold); or those that can double down on weight of fire weapons. For anyone who has easy access to high volume S7 weapons, it notably makes no difference at all.

ShaneMarsh wrote:

dammit wrote:
you can also give them zealot for 2cp/1cp if in range of a priest.

Yep. A lot of things you can do. They are less point and click but have wider applications than before with more possible ways of buffing them. I view them mostly as a sidegrade, with a better bottom, more versatility outside one specific Order, at the cost of top-end performance that is harder to achieve.

Yeah it turns out bloody rose zephyrim actually slap with the new strat.

dammit wrote:

ShaneMarsh wrote:

dammit wrote:
you can also give them zealot for 2cp/1cp if in range of a priest.

Yep. A lot of things you can do. They are less point and click but have wider applications than before with more possible ways of buffing them. I view them mostly as a sidegrade, with a better bottom, more versatility outside one specific Order, at the cost of top-end performance that is harder to achieve.

Yeah it turns out bloody rose zephyrim actually slap with the new strat.

So more proof the internet likes to bruise it's knee on its desk in response to changes? Cool.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
So I haven’t heard, what Were all the nerfs to the Exorcist?

Lost a point of toughness and the rockets lost a pip of AP. The rockets gained ignores cover though, and the Missiles are no longer Blast which means you can give someone an 1812 Overture to the face if they tag it to stop i from shooting the Missiles.

Also all the tanks gained the Hallowed keyword which lets them pop the Thrice Blessed Hull Stat which makes a psyker in 12" who fails to cast a psychic power perils until the end of the phase for 1 CP so that's a thing I guess.

That’s it? I mean yeah, obviously less good, but I was expecting worse from the way people were talking.