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chaos0xomega wrote: Wholly unsurprised by this - also wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of the individuals posting in this thread were part of the community of harassers that drove SODAZ away, given their apparent feelings of entitlement to those animations and the anger displayed over SODAZ getting a job at GW.
Looks like the outrage blew up in their face though, not only are they not getting the animations from GW any longer, but they are also not getting them from youtube either since they called it quits on the Warhammer IP entirely.
some almost certainly are here, i'm willing to bet they were some of the more vocal ones in the female space marine threads that got locked down .
chaos0xomega wrote: Wholly unsurprised by this - also wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of the individuals posting in this thread were part of the community of harassers that drove SODAZ away, given their apparent feelings of entitlement to those animations and the anger displayed over SODAZ getting a job at GW.
Looks like the outrage blew up in their face though, not only are they not getting the animations from GW any longer, but they are also not getting them from youtube either since they called it quits on the Warhammer IP entirely.
some almost certainly are here, i'm willing to bet they were some of the more vocal ones in the female space marine threads that got locked down .
Incredibly uncalled for.
how so? its relevant to the topic. it eventually got closed down due to the toxicity and Sodaz sadly is leaving due to the toxicity. no names listed just pointing out if that kind of behavior is what made him quit making awesome 40k content and we have that behavior here... well
I'm going out on a limb here, but "Tell me you were vocal in the female space marine threads without telling me you were vocal in the space marine threads".
Apologies in advance if I got the wrong read of things, I just don't see why else someone might feel that statement was uncalled for.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: I'm going out on a limb here, but "Tell me you were vocal in the female space marine threads without telling me you were vocal in the space marine threads".
Apologies in advance if I got the wrong read of things, I just don't see why else someone might feel that statement was uncalled for.
right. i think i had 1-2 comments in each as to how i think the lore might work if GW decided to to so but moslty i just read and lurked in there myself shaking my head as people attacked each other. Like come on people its a hobby for us to all paint, roll some dice and enjoy.
chaos0xomega wrote: I'm going out on a limb here, but "Tell me you were vocal in the female space marine threads without telling me you were vocal in the space marine threads".
Apologies in advance if I got the wrong read of things, I just don't see why else someone might feel that statement was uncalled for.
The second possibility is that one could have been toxic towards Sodaz but not vocal in the FSM threads, and shame on you for even suggesting!
We can say for sure that the 40k community has a serious harassment problem. Whenever it happens, and it does happen, it's either brushed off as not real/overexaggerating or the victims get told to "toughen up" or "get a thicker skin". All too often people say "oh but I never get harassed" or "but I never saw any harassment". Are you* reading the victim's DM's on every single platform they're on? Have you considered they don't want to keep records of harassing messages just to prove it every time some random on the Internet asks for evidence?
It is something that seriously needs to be addressed.
*"You" in this instance is not aimed at any individual.
And just so there's no mistaking my position on this, an out and out racist/sexist/homophobe/etc getting kicked out of a community is not harassment or bullying, it's community management for the safety of its members.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/16 19:56:36
Arcanis161 wrote: ...Are you guys trying to get this thread shut down?
Just curious.
More hoping there is introspection on toxicity, Maybe make the community a little bit better of a place. Now that Sodaz has quit because of toxicity those engaging in that behavior might hopefully decide to try to be nicer? Even if it is for the selfish reason of it is driving off creative cool people making quality 40k content that was (as far as i can tell) universally loved by the community.
They won't be nicer, they'll just find a new target. They'll pat themselves on the back for a job well done and look for the next person who's life they want to make miserable.
kirotheavenger wrote: 40k is a large community, I don't think it has an abnormal harassment problem at all.
In fact rather the opposite.
Actually I'd say there is a problem, its just not prevalent within the community toward the community.
Instead its more targeted at GW and those who choose to work with GW. It's why GW no longer has a "head" name on the codex/battletomes. It's why some authors have stepped away from BL. Within Warhammer it is allowed, even encouraged, to insult and be negative toward GW itself. The problem is some people take that too far and instead of just generic "I hate GW prices" they get personal. They find the emails of key staffers and they sling abuse and hate at them - fuelled by the casual GW hate that exists.
Note I'm drawing a line between criticism and hate here. The two are NOT the same.
In general generic GW hate harms no one because its generic and is mostly venting (often at prices). But it sets a tone that such things are tolerated and it encourages others to go further. They DO take it further, they do slink hate and insults and worse at people. Doing so by finding personal emails and communication points. Thing is most people are not prepared for that kind of targeted abuse. They can take critique, they can take feedback, they can take comments - but not targeted abuse and hate. It's a very different beast; esp when this is, at the end of the day, a hobby industry that's pretty niche
chaos0xomega wrote: Wholly unsurprised by this - also wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of the individuals posting in this thread were part of the community of harassers that drove SODAZ away, given their apparent feelings of entitlement to those animations and the anger displayed over SODAZ getting a job at GW.
Looks like the outrage blew up in their face though, not only are they not getting the animations from GW any longer, but they are also not getting them from youtube either since they called it quits on the Warhammer IP entirely.
some almost certainly are here, i'm willing to bet they were some of the more vocal ones in the female space marine threads that got locked down .
Incredibly uncalled for.
how so? its relevant to the topic. it eventually got closed down due to the toxicity and Sodaz sadly is leaving due to the toxicity. no names listed just pointing out if that kind of behavior is what made him quit making awesome 40k content and we have that behavior here... well
How broad of a brush are we painting with here? This person disagrees with me therefore I fault them with targeted abuse at some poor fan-film creator? Seems a little sus.
Looking through the reddit thread I wouldn't be surprised if the creator pulled out because of a lot of the "honest critique". Making stuff is hard, critique is easy. Anonymous critique that's an auxilliary to making some other point on the internet . . . The sky's the limit.
I've seen a few facebook groups that harbored such ill members of the community. I don't think I've ever seen them have a constructive conversation about 3d printing, recasting, 3rd party models or the prospect of female marines. Not to mention a few too many models built in poor taste involving orks and certain political movements. I certainly don't see that much inflammatory behavior on this website, but that could just be the mods doing a good job.
Once again, the internet creates and then promptly destroys another good thing.
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today?
This entire situation seems incredibly self defeating from all sides. Gw shutting down free fan made content to drive people to warhammer + instead is weird. People will pay for your content if it's good. A 6 minute free video isn't going to drive consumers away. If anything it's going to get them to want more.
Getting mad at a small presumably self employed creator for being scared out of his mind by a multinational company that could ruin your life is weird as well.
Fan content will always be in a legal grey area. Especially if donations, patreons, paypals, etc are involved.
I hope he finds success in another fandom or media property to make some cool stuff.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/16 21:41:32
Gert wrote: We can say for sure that the 40k community has a serious harassment problem. Whenever it happens, and it does happen, it's either brushed off as not real/overexaggerating or the victims get told to "toughen up" or "get a thicker skin". All too often people say "oh but I never get harassed" or "but I never saw any harassment". Are you* reading the victim's DM's on every single platform they're on? Have you considered they don't want to keep records of harassing messages just to prove it every time some random on the Internet asks for evidence?
It is something that seriously needs to be addressed.
*"You" in this instance is not aimed at any individual.
And just so there's no mistaking my position on this, an out and out racist/sexist/homophobe/etc getting kicked out of a community is not harassment or bullying, it's community management for the safety of its members.
Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but why limit your scope to those people? Wouldn't Uncivil be a more effective, all encompassing term? Was SODAZ shut down by racists and homophobes?.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but why limit your scope to those people? Wouldn't Uncivil be a more effective, all encompassing term? Was SODAZ shut down by racists and homophobes?.
Firstly, you missed the whole "etc" bit.
Secondly, you can't legislate for "uncivil" the way you can for hate speech. Swearing and cursing are often viewed as uncivil, are you going to kick out every single person who swears/curses? No, because you wouldn't have a community because everyone swears/curses now and then. If someone is swearing and cursing at someone that is different from them saying "Holy bleep my Captain just got shanked by a Grot" and the individual should be reprimanded for their behavior.
As for my specific example, I've seen so many bad faith actors cry about their favourite fascist/racist/sexist getting "bullied" despite the fact that person organised hate or harassment campaigns against minority hobbyists. It's not bullying, it's consequences for illegal behaviour.
Gert wrote: you can't legislate for "uncivil" the way you can for hate speech.
Why not? They're both equally nebulous terms that have no business being inscribed into law.
But if you can legislate for one then you can most certainly legislate for the other. Same way that "grossly offensive" internet content is a crime in the UK, despite offence (gross or otherwise) being entirely subjective.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Gert wrote: They won't be nicer, they'll just find a new target. They'll pat themselves on the back for a job well done and look for the next person who's life they want to make miserable.
Well, the thing is here it seems like the harassers wanted SODAZ to go back to making 40k animations that were published for free instead of via the Warhammer + platform. So it wasn't about making someone miserable, it was about being a bunch of selfish, entitled, petulant children.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
kirotheavenger wrote: 40k is a large community, I don't think it has an abnormal harassment problem at all.
In fact rather the opposite.
Actually I'd say there is a problem, its just not prevalent within the community toward the community.
Instead its more targeted at GW and those who choose to work with GW. It's why GW no longer has a "head" name on the codex/battletomes. It's why some authors have stepped away from BL.
I agree with your sentiment overhead but feel.you are wrong in this particular part. A lot of the toxicity is targeted within the community as well and against other community members as well.as against the evil gw.
You tend to see this manifesting via the cult of officialdom against people who are regarded as 'stepping outside of the lines' eg certain recent topics that the mods have stayed here that are not to be repeated. (Out of respect, let's not go there) and also manifesting via aggro and all kinds of nastiness towards people perceived as 'having badwrongfun' with the hobby eg the endless snark that is inherent in the 'competitive versus casual', 'painted or unpainted' or 'is it OK to homebrew or MUST we follow rules that are clearly broken?' that pop up all thr time. There are some extremely toxic elements within our community.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/16 23:04:20
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
Why not? They're both equally nebulous terms that have no business being inscribed into law.
But if you can legislate for one then you can most certainly legislate for the other. Same way that "grossly offensive" internet content is a crime in the UK, despite offence (gross or otherwise) being entirely subjective.
Call someone an idiot in front of your boss, then direct a racial slur at them and see which you're getting fired for.
Well, the thing is here it seems like the harassers wanted SODAZ to go back to making 40k animations that were published for free instead of via the Warhammer + platform. So it wasn't about making someone miserable, it was about being a bunch of selfish, entitled, petulant children.
People don't harass other people to make them happy though do they?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/16 23:06:50
Sledgehammer wrote: This entire situation seems incredibly self defeating from all sides. Gw shutting down free fan made content to drive people to warhammer + instead is weird. People will pay for your content if it's good. A 6 minute free video isn't going to drive consumers away. If anything it's going to get them to want more.
Getting mad at a small presumably self employed creator for being scared out of his mind by a multinational company that could ruin your life is weird as well.
Some incredible contortions going on here.....
No, he was scared by 'fans' who model themselves as 'anti-GW crusaders', and who apparently felt affronted that he 'sold-out' to their great enemy.
All GW did was offer employment to a creater who was using their property to make money.
I feel like it might legitimately be a goal of people to lock as many threads as possible. Dakka can get vitriolic at points, but people here go for the throat on topics like this and the recently locked threads.
‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley
Why not? They're both equally nebulous terms that have no business being inscribed into law.
But if you can legislate for one then you can most certainly legislate for the other. Same way that "grossly offensive" internet content is a crime in the UK, despite offence (gross or otherwise) being entirely subjective.
Call someone an idiot in front of your boss, then direct a racial slur at them and see which you're getting fired for.
Pretty sure you can get reprimanded for that too. Especially if it's a tirade of insults, which was the sort of incivility I was thinking of.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/16 23:37:48
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Sledgehammer wrote: This entire situation seems incredibly self defeating from all sides. Gw shutting down free fan made content to drive people to warhammer + instead is weird. People will pay for your content if it's good. A 6 minute free video isn't going to drive consumers away. If anything it's going to get them to want more.
Getting mad at a small presumably self employed creator for being scared out of his mind by a multinational company that could ruin your life is weird as well.
Some incredible contortions going on here.....
No, he was scared by 'fans' who model themselves as 'anti-GW crusaders', and who apparently felt affronted that he 'sold-out' to their great enemy.
All GW did was offer employment to a creater who was using their property to make money.
I mean it sounds like they told him to take his videos down and didn't communicate with him very well, if at all, as to what their intentions were. It took over a month for them to actually reach out and by then the damage was done by both mal actors within the community and GW not being effectively able to communicate.
It just sounds like a lose lose for everyone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/16 23:18:27
Sledgehammer wrote: This entire situation seems incredibly self defeating from all sides. Gw shutting down free fan made content to drive people to warhammer + instead is weird. People will pay for your content if it's good. A 6 minute free video isn't going to drive consumers away. If anything it's going to get them to want more.
Getting mad at a small presumably self employed creator for being scared out of his mind by a multinational company that could ruin your life is weird as well.
Some incredible contortions going on here.....
No, he was scared by 'fans' who model themselves as 'anti-GW crusaders', and who apparently felt affronted that he 'sold-out' to their great enemy.
All GW did was offer employment to a creater who was using their property to make money.
Wow is that it? Poor guy.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Call someone an idiot in front of your boss, then direct a racial slur at them and see which you're getting fired for.
If you work for, say, The Guardian and the racial slur is 'gammon', I'd wager you'd be promoted rather than fired. Because racial slurs (which you seem to have taken as some sort of litmus test for Hate Speech) demonstrably only count if they're directed against the wrong group. Indeed, so long as you limit yourself to the "correct" targets, you can be as vicious and hateful as you like. Almost as if nebulous laws of these kind exist not to limit "hateful" speech but as a cudgel with which to beat one's political enemies.
Alas, I know that you and those like you will continue to cheer on the removal of speech and liberty, thinking you are on the "correct" side and thus will never have to fear comeuppance.
But someday you will overstep a line you never even knew existed and find yourself suddenly on the wrong side of all those laws you helped bring about. On that day, you will cry for the same liberties you helped to strip from so many others, though your cries will fall on deaf ears, and by then you will have already succeeded in silencing anyone who could have spoken out in your defence.
I know you will sneer now but that fateful day will come; and when it does, you will finally realise that brick by brick you built your own prison.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
7000 
~4100
~1660
