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I think it'd be a lot more superhero-ish. Guilliman flying around shooting lasers from his eyes, Calgar launching his jet-powered robotic fists to punch the evil swarmlord on the chin, that sort of stuff.

 aphyon wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

I think the grim dark setting would be hard to get past the social gate keepers at this point. look what they did to vampire the masquerade.

they say, discussing a grim dark setting that has gotten past the social gate keepers at this point and actually exists in the modern era.

They say, when all the new models coming out do not look like they belong in the 40K setting


classic dark hard and dirty crumbling 40k





clean and advance 40K

... That sisters art is featured in modern GW marketing posts
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/29/battle-sister-bulletin-part-6-key-events-in-adepta-sororitas-history-gw-homepage-post-4/

That's only from 2019. I doubt things have changed that much in the last two years where GW would *never* post that art again...

Calgar launching his jet-powered robotic fists to punch the evil swarmlord on the chin,

I could have sworn this was exactly how it went down already... of course, Calgar did the same thing against an Eldar Avatar. it's his signature move, after all. It's what you tune in for on Saturday mornings!

 Ghool wrote:
No one would conceive of a game system so bloated and based on FOMO purchasing every week and make it be successful in this day and age.

This is really dumb.

1. The game isn't based off FOMO purchasing unless you're a top end tournament player. 95% of the community plays and collects within their faction, at best adding in a few ally kits per year. There's also not guarantee something will be good just because it's new. For every Eradicator there are 3 Gladiator variants that are terrible and an incredibly old kit like attack bikes that suddenly get good.

2. A Bloated game system with FOMO purchases every week not being successful? Then why do mobile games absolutely CRUSH console and PC games in revenue? Also explain Madden ultimate team, Fifa just as a franchise, and the entire 'looter shooter' genre. Hell, Dragon Age (a previously beloved single player RPG franchise) very nearly ended up in the 'bloated game system with FOMO purchases every week' genre just based of the OUTLANDISH success of such titles.

You're as wrong as anyone has ever been about anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think it'd be a lot more superhero-ish. Guilliman flying around shooting lasers from his eyes, Calgar launching his jet-powered robotic fists to punch the evil swarmlord on the chin, that sort of stuff.

Shooting lasers from their eyes has been a thing in 40k since the word 'psyker' existed. In fact, of all the abilities psykers have been shown to have, shooting lazers from their eyes is pretty tame.

 Gert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

I think the grim dark setting would be hard to get past the social gate keepers at this point. look what they did to vampire the masquerade.

they say, discussing a grim dark setting that has gotten past the social gate keepers at this point and actually exists in the modern era.

"All these SJW Gatekeepers stopping me from playing the game that still exists and I can still buy things for!"

I think they're just mad because the White Wolf team (which wasn't even the original WW) kept getting in trouble for putting some really heinious stuff into the VtM and got the game taken away from them by their parent company.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2018-11-19-paradox-taking-control-of-white-wolf-after-vampire-the-masquerade-lgbtq-controversy


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Well, big shoulder pads would be gone…

The marines would probably look more like something out of Gears of War or Call of Duty. Tacticool body armor and very haloish-looking.

Admech would probably be more technobright - white motorcycle suits with neon lines and designs.

The Eldar would be festooned with tattoos and piercings and be helmetless with comb-overs (i.e., a lot more like dark Eldar, but more colorful and cheerful looking).

Orks would be entirely replaced with a different race - probably a faceless cyborg race with an ultra sleek appearance and lots of heavy, built-in weaponry.

Tau would look more like the air caste/lama su from Clone wars. They would have a lot of quad-fan drones but still have battle suits that would be much sleeker-looking (more like the Ghostkeel).

Tyranids would probably look the same.

If we assume it'd be made today that'd still put Jes Goodwin in the studio and he's responsible for most of the aesthetic we recognize in the setting so I disagree.

... That sisters art is featured in modern GW marketing posts
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/29/battle-sister-bulletin-part-6-key-events-in-adepta-sororitas-history-gw-homepage-post-4/

That's only from 2019. I doubt things have changed that much in the last two years where GW would *never* post that art again...

You do understands they re-use old art in the new books like that even from 2nd and 3rd ed. the fact is the NEW art is not the grim dark crumbling tech base of the stagnant imperium.





VS

I don't understand your argument. The old art still being used means that the old art still flies and still is representative of the setting.

You posted a picture of a space marine fighting chaos, and a picture of a space marine standing there.
And 2 pictures of a bunch of space marines standing around.

How exactly am I supposed to look at any of those and get any vibes of a crumbling imperium vs a high tech new one?

They're... they are just space marines... They evoke what space marines always have...?

"Look at this horrible clean sleek MODERN 40k"

*posts pic of a lady wearing a robot suit that is also a fething church*

Aphyon, youre on the wrong script. The excuse to bitch about this sisters model is "ugh sooooooo unrealistic lolololol a sniper would just shoot herrrrrr".

We have to cycle. One each time, come on, you know the sequence:

-New sisters model is too manly

-New sisters model is too unrealistic

-New sisters model is not grimdark enough

^you have to wait until the next one to complain that it isn't grimdark enough.

I got to meet Jes Goodwin once and see some of his original sketches for 40k products and it was brilliant. He even pointed out the little secrets he had added on certain models like the Floppy Disk on the Techpriest Manipulus.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

If we assume it'd be made today that'd still put Jes Goodwin in the studio and he's responsible for most of the aesthetic we recognize in the setting so I disagree.

I’m assuming a start-up company with none of the old staff, just a bunch of 20-year-olds. I guess we’d just have to look at Infinity for the aesthetic, though even that’s 10+ years old now.

 Stormonu wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

If we assume it'd be made today that'd still put Jes Goodwin in the studio and he's responsible for most of the aesthetic we recognize in the setting so I disagree.

I’m assuming a start-up company with none of the old staff, just a bunch of 20-year-olds. I guess we’d just have to look at Infinity for the aesthetic, though even that’s 10+ years old now.

Infinity is too cyberpunk.

What about the new art in the codexes though chief. You've picked very specific examples that only prove your point.



But yeah there's no Grimdark guys. I haven't even included the piece that depicts the most dangerous Xenos of all, the Gungus.

A robot suit that is sleek and advance tech something the tech level of the imperium is not known for.

They made karamozov a freaking walking chair.

My point is that the current installments of 40K already show they are moving away from the look and feel of the setting due to current social trends as such if the game was made new today without said deep backstory it would not look like it does even today.

Except this isn't even close to true. So many of the new units for so many factions have been "Grimdark" or "low-tech-but-not". The SoB have a unit that is literally a medieval torture chamber but worse strapped to a walker frame. The Admech got their renaissance but techy flyers and weird cyber horses. Even SM models from the Starter sets have a literal human skeleton strapped to their shield.
What GW is moving away from is its "White guy only" problem and has started to introduce a more balanced slate of diverse characters.

2. A Bloated game system with FOMO purchases every week not being successful? Then why do mobile games absolutely CRUSH console and PC games in revenue? Also explain Madden ultimate team, Fifa just as a franchise, and the entire 'looter shooter' genre. Hell, Dragon Age (a previously beloved single player RPG franchise) very nearly ended up in the 'bloated game system with FOMO purchases every week' genre just based of the OUTLANDISH success of such titles.

Because mobile games, and PC games require zero effort from the purchaser, aside from spending money?
Second, because literally everyone in the first world has a mobile device and not a PC?
Third, this is the only way that the video game industry knows how to make bank anymore? I mean take a look at how many re-releases we're getting these days. It's almost as though the video game industry has run out of ways to make money besides a cash shop.

There is no hobby aspect what-so-ever for video games - spend money, get stuff.
With a hobby game like 40K, you spend money, assemble, paint, then play.
Much more effort and time is required on the part of the purchaser, which is why FOMO models have more success in the video game/mobile genre/area.
Video and mobile games do not create a 'Pile of Shame'.

You're comparing apples to a suspension bridge here.
You yourself couldn't be more wrong.
I don't feel I'm the one who's being dumb.

 aphyon wrote:
A robot suit that is sleek and advance tech something the tech level of the imperium is not known for.

They made karamozov a freaking walking chair.

My point is that the current installments of 40K already show they are moving away from the look and feel of the setting due to current social trends as such if the game was made new today without said deep backstory it would not look like it does even today.

Oh, please. Like you would not have bitched and moaned if they made the sisters a heavy infantry unit and it wasn't more 'feminine' than the space marine equivalent (TDA or Centurion or whatever you want to equate them to)

the sisters releases have been as safe and nostalgia-based as one could possibly imagine, and the new walker suits feature a fething church shrine sitting on the pilot's shoulders, no helmet for the pilot, tons of exposed wiring and ammo and fuel cables for the weapons and people are like "What is this sleek cyberpunk scifi bs?" It's an imperial Killa Kan for crying out loud.

In what way is the sister walker more sleek or smooth than say, the Rogue Trader Beakie Marine? Which is entirely smooth round lines

Absolutely shameful that Space Marines have moved from their Chunky, Clunky, Blocky origins like... this? Wait, that can't be right...

 Gert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

I think the grim dark setting would be hard to get past the social gate keepers at this point. look what they did to vampire the masquerade.

they say, discussing a grim dark setting that has gotten past the social gate keepers at this point and actually exists in the modern era.

"All these SJW Gatekeepers stopping me from playing the game that still exists and I can still buy things for!"

I could easily see an Ordo of the Inquisition obsessed with the 'correct' use of High Gothic, and constantly at war with itself as it splits in ever more wackadoodle subfactions

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

I think the grim dark setting would be hard to get past the social gate keepers at this point. look what they did to vampire the masquerade.

they say, discussing a grim dark setting that has gotten past the social gate keepers at this point and actually exists in the modern era.

"All these SJW Gatekeepers stopping me from playing the game that still exists and I can still buy things for!"

I could easily see an Ordo of the Inquisition obsessed with the 'correct' use of High Gothic, and constantly at war with itself as it splits in ever more wackadoodle subfactions

Are we sure there isn't a grammar war being fought among the Administratum?

I highly doubt there would even be an Inquisition if 40K was made today

 aphyon wrote:

Spoiler:

Rihgu wrote:

I think the grim dark setting would be hard to get past the social gate keepers at this point. look what they did to vampire the masquerade.

they say, discussing a grim dark setting that has gotten past the social gate keepers at this point and actually exists in the modern era.

They say, when all the new models coming out do not look like they belong in the 40K setting

classic dark hard and dirty crumbling 40k

Spoiler:

clean and advance 40K

Spoiler:

This^^

Made today, it would be tacticool gi joe meets superfriends nast... shiny plastic toys as GW becomes Hasbro

Ah yes, lets ignore all the 9th ed art that's been fairly Grimdark in favor of another lie about 40k beinn "sanitized".

What's next, the "soul" meme about new models vs old ones?

 jeff white wrote:


This^^

Made today, it would be tacticool gi joe meets superfriends nast... shiny plastic toys as GW becomes Hasbro

You mean it would be a satire of what is currently popular and trending in geek media like it was in the 80s/90s where massive shoulder pads were all the craze?

The horror! It's almost like satire is a reflection of the times in which it was made and the subject it is satirising.

I have a question about all the older art, which I hope isn't too stupid. But I only know the 8th ed stuff and some reprints. Was it normal for GW to have art which clearly was not a 1 to 1 represenation of the model? Or was there a time in history when ultramarines had a standard bearer model without one arm?

Karol wrote:
I have a question about all the older art, which I hope isn't too stupid. But I only know the 8th ed stuff and some reprints. Was it normal for GW to have art which clearly was not a 1 to 1 represenation of the model? Or was there a time in history when ultramarines had a standard bearer model without one arm?

...This isn't sarcasm, is it? Please tell me this is a joke, ha-ha, good laugh had by all.

If it's not... then yeah. Once upon a time GW actively encouraged hobbyists to convert their own models. Art was used to invoke the feelings of the setting instead of just showing the new shinies.

 Gert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

I think the grim dark setting would be hard to get past the social gate keepers at this point. look what they did to vampire the masquerade.

they say, discussing a grim dark setting that has gotten past the social gate keepers at this point and actually exists in the modern era.

"All these SJW Gatekeepers stopping me from playing the game that still exists and I can still buy things for!"

....Except it's been changed significantly and will continue to be. Kinda like how boob armor is increasingly being hated on. It's almost like muscle armor doesn't exist except it does. Also you'd be lying if you said the strong women trope isn't ridiculously over saturated at this point. I still say that's part of why sisters are a huge focus now due to cultural shift rather than because gw gives 2 craps about race or gender.

Also yes you do gatekeep. Remember the warhammer is for everyone thing....except if you aren't like us you won't be missed? Perhaps instead of kicking out entire player bases you should aim for maybe less forcefully showing your side....or you could just act aggressive and unreasonable and kick them out while shouting racist at the top of your lungs. Your choice.

This isnt even considering the fact you havent even heard these people out or maybe considered their positions a little or maybe wondered if the people that shout toxic don't have their own issues. Maybe these people don't even know they're offending you. Maybe take a step back and be less aggressive.

Also note the change in theme from old whfb and 8th ed as well as up to Aos. 40k couldn't exist if it was made today. It'd have comically evil fascists with certain inborn characteristics and then a diverse good faction and then people would see some factions like nids and necrons as not fully evil even though that's not the point so much as they each have different viewpoints as cultures to the extreme and some can't really co-exist. I doubt putting orks in front of endless suicide truck rallies will appease them without deciding to fight. Itd be like making a cat and mouse friends. I suppose it could happen but why would you be friends with something that generally sees you as dinner. Nids arent really evil for instance theyre just hungry. Extra Credits wouldnt see that though.

I mean don't get me wrong we have plenty of stuff that's really explicit with models but none of it is GW. They toned down the sexual aspects and made things progressively more for kids. Warhammer adventures never would've existed early on in GWs history. It's like a combo of the magic school bus and captain planet. That's not very grim dark.

What? What universe are you living in where current 40k is the Magic School Bus levels of child friendly?

Karol wrote:
I have a question about all the older art, which I hope isn't too stupid. But I only know the 8th ed stuff and some reprints. Was it normal for GW to have art which clearly was not a 1 to 1 represenation of the model? Or was there a time in history when ultramarines had a standard bearer model without one arm?

It's not stupid at all. The traditional GW way was to let artists run free with the setting, explore facets of it and thus inspire their sculptors as well as hobbyists all over the globe. In stark contrast, towards the end of 7th edition this was flipped the other way round, with digital paintings of existing miniatures becoming more common. Many fans, myself included, absolutely loathe this turn towards corporate churn with no artistic ambitions. This is also why works that aren't such boring replicas, like the beautiful cover of the new AdMech codex, are generally well received.

We don't want to see art of their minis, we want their great art to inspire our minis.

 Gert wrote:
What? What universe are you living in where current 40k is the Magic School Bus levels of child friendly?

Have you seen warhammer adventure yet? That is what I'm talking about.

You mean the specific product targeted for kids? The thing that isn't the mainline 40k product? The one where the Necrons show up and eradicate a world in a day?

 Gert wrote:
You mean the specific product targeted for kids? The thing that isn't the mainline 40k product? The one where the Necrons show up and eradicate a world in a day?

You say it's targeted for kids but almost every single player at the last 2 hobby shops i played were at least in their mid teens if not likely over 20.

Gw might have kids as their focus but they don't always have them as their customers. I'd argue it really depends based on store location.