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 Lord Damocles wrote:
This theory smells a lot like gently smearing someone with poopoo.

So we're now hypothesising that he was selling recasts, based on what, exactly..?

From what I understand, someone said that he could have been selling 3D prints. Those aren't recasts, but I can tell you that GW does not have much love for companies like Artel or Kromlech, even if neither makes recasts of GW stuff.
Our schools teams for example have sponsors. Technicaly I can walk around and drink what ever I want in my free time. But I bet you one internet, that if a localc news paper showed me wearing another companies Jersey there could be problem, and if it was done by someone actually good and high ranked the school would be hinted to stuff like that happen in the future.

I mean we live in a world, where world star athletes make ,I am sorry, videos for saying the strangest of things.

Karol wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
This theory smells a lot like gently smearing someone with poopoo.

So we're now hypothesising that he was selling recasts, based on what, exactly..?

From what I understand, someone said that he could have been selling 3D prints. Those aren't recasts, but I can tell you that GW does not have much love for companies like Artel or Kromlech, even if neither makes recasts of GW stuff.
Our schools teams for example have sponsors. Technicaly I can walk around and drink what ever I want in my free time. But I bet you one internet, that if a localc news paper showed me wearing another companies Jersey there could be problem, and if it was done by someone actually good and high ranked the school would be hinted to stuff like that happen in the future.

I mean we live in a world, where world star athletes make ,I am sorry, videos for saying the strangest of things.

Yarium's post on the previous page, which is where the idea of Pablo selling 3D prints (again, based on what?) was brought up specifically references recasting.

Besides which, GW were seemingly fine with Blanche creating his own company/miniature line while working for them; so the idea that they would apply pressure on an affiliate to remove an employee seems especially uncharitable, even by my usually dim view of GW.

 Arschbombe wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 StrayIight wrote:

Moorecox wrote:
They We are based out of Nevada now.

Fixed that typo for you buddy

This is going to be fun.

Why? Cause you got a fellow traveler now ready to help make unfounded insinuations against a low-count forum poster? This dude could be a plant. 30% of his posts are in this thread. Definitely suspicious. Very suspicious. Best to dox him now and make sure.

..Or, perhaps it was an attempt at some humour around the defence of a company whose actions here don't strike me as particularly defensible?

I don't know Pablo. I don't actually particularly like him. I think as a podcast presenter, he's fairly talentless.

I also think it is ridiculous to the point of being surreal, to defend FLG's treatment of him in that statement.

It was, and is, unacceptable to ask a community to effectively shun someone, further, to damage a professional reputation, on no more evidence than 'because we said so, he's a bad'.

If people are going to behave in a bizarre surreal manner, I'm going to laugh at said behaviour to highlight it.

We have saying here which says what a king can do, a peasent can not. Although it sounds more offensive and vulgar.

I can imagine that GW can let a well know and long time employee or free lancer do some stuff.

But not someone who is just a playtester in another country working for you just a few years. Sports is the same too. High rankers can get away with murder, sometimes litteraly, while regular joes can get kicked out for having a Puma Towel in their bag.

Wayniac wrote:
Knowing the current political climate and the fact FLG is in California I believe, it was probably that he said something that fell on the wrong political side and offended someone so he was cancelled.

Reece does give off a discount Joe Rogan vibe...

It's safe to say from statements that pablo handeled this better...
Also whole Situation fishy , my opinion feth all of em and stay away from all sides involved.

Not Online!!! wrote:
It's safe to say from statements that pablo handeled this better...
Also whole Situation fishy , my opinion feth all of em and stay away from all sides involved.

That's good advice honestly.

The trouble is that FLG functionally run competitive 40K. Anyone involved in that side of the hobby will find it difficult.

I think that's what bothers me most about all this. FLG have a lot of power and influence in this community. And they seem very prepared to use it.

'This guy cheated in a high profile event, but he said sorry and we like him, so everyone is to forgive him.'

'This guy did something we didn't like, we don't like him. Even though we will never give you any reason why, have nothing to do with him.'

Both of these things have happened in the last few months alone.

Right, this reeks of preferential treatment.

Cheater is OK and here's the reason why...he makes us money
Whatever Pablo did NOT OK and we're just gonna beat around the bush, but just take our word for it...

Their word means jack gak. The fact that these knuckleheads "represent" the community should be insulting to everyone.

Well it isn't really a double standard since they just don't really care about cheaters in the first place. We can be sure that's not what Pablo did, at any rate.

So Pablo is assumed innocent because some people don’t like FLG? That’s some amazing logic right there…

I don't see anyone assuming Pablo is "innocent" (whatever that means...), but I do see a lot of people not simply assuming he's guilty of...what, exactly? Something so bad FLG wouldn't even tell us what it was, other than to repeatedly insinuate that it was really bad?

Most people's problem with FLG here is that they smeared the guy without giving details, which is never ok. Either you say nothing when someone separates other than that they are no longer affiliated with your company, or you make a detailed statement that says exactly what someone did to get fired. Detail-free smears are always a chump move.

Moorecox wrote:
So Pablo is assumed innocent because some people don’t like FLG? That’s some amazing logic right there…

Actually, I would assume he's presumed innocent because (looks at the little flag next to Moorecox's name), that's how we do it in our country? I've seen no actual allegation, let alone proof of one.

Moorecox wrote:
So Pablo is assumed innocent because some people don’t like FLG? That’s some amazing logic right there…

Nope.

FLG is assumed to be making crappy public statements because they demonstrably did. Whatever actually went on is intentionally unknown, and since no party involved is willing to say, it will (apparently) stay that way.

So all we're left with is a group claiming an individual is nebulously 'bad' for reasons known only to them. Which sucks for him, so the only visible bad actor(s) in this little farce are FLG, because the only real evidence for this whole snafu is that they're bad at making public statements.
Crap-talking a former... employer/business partner/whatever really requires a burden of proof and they offered none. Standards for guilt and innocence here require evidence, not just 'hey folks, he's totally bad, ok?'

Pablo could have given his account but chose not to, that’s his decision of course.

It isn't about Pablo. It's about FLG, and the lame statement they put out. What Pablo does or doesn't do has no impact on how bad FLG's statement is.

Moorecox wrote:
Pablo could have given his account but chose not to, that’s his decision of course.

I mean, sure, technically, it probably is.
But if they're threatening him with litigation if he makes a statement, they've got a functional income stream and he (at least currently)... doesn't. So that's going to end real poorly for him.

Even if it doesn't come to that, he also may not want to be dragged further through the mud and deal with the whole thing (which is going to be stressful no matter what it is).

Tattling to teacher when Bob and Jim call you a poo-face may work in elementary school, but in the land of adults it is almost never that simple.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Knowing the current political climate and the fact FLG is in California I believe, it was probably that he said something that fell on the wrong political side and offended someone so he was cancelled.

You're quite the caricature, huh?

This poster isn't entirely out of the ball park here. Personally I wondered if this wasn't a sexual harassment issue.

Togusa wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Knowing the current political climate and the fact FLG is in California I believe, it was probably that he said something that fell on the wrong political side and offended someone so he was cancelled.

You're quite the caricature, huh?

This poster isn't entirely out of the ball park here. Personally I wondered if this wasn't a sexual harassment issue.

If it is a sexual harassment issue, then he should be given the boot. That has nothing to do with politics.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Togusa wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Knowing the current political climate and the fact FLG is in California I believe, it was probably that he said something that fell on the wrong political side and offended someone so he was cancelled.

You're quite the caricature, huh?

This poster isn't entirely out of the ball park here. Personally I wondered if this wasn't a sexual harassment issue.

If it is a sexual harassment issue, then he should be given the boot. That has nothing to do with politics.

Not in and of itself. Though there are many levels within that, which can and do become political and we shall leave it there. To be honest, we're never going to know what happened here. Seems best to move on from it.

Moorecox wrote:
They are based out of Nevada now.

Question for you - When you all moved out there, did you have to pay your own way? Just curious ....

So Pablo is assumed innocent because some people don’t like FLG? That’s some amazing logic right there…

Ree .... I mean Morecox - are you actually reading the thread? No one has said he's "innocent" or "guilty". Not one person. A few people have (needlessly and inappropriately imo) speculated on what might have happened, but everyone else is just pointing out how badly bungled this was by FLG. It's not the first time I personally have been disappointed by their actions, but it's one of the more extreme. Look, you guys are THE scene in the U.S. We all make mistakes. Just ... do better.

Also, Morecox's posts are so ridiculous at this point, it's making me wonder if this whole thing is some elaborate troll by Reece/Franky/Pablo. I have no idea what the end-game would be but ... yeah, it would be kind of hilarious and I hope that's the case ...

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Moorecox wrote:
So Pablo is assumed innocent because some people don’t like FLG? That’s some amazing logic right there…

Actually, I would assume he's presumed innocent because (looks at the little flag next to Moorecox's name), that's how we do it in our country? I've seen no actual allegation, let alone proof of one.

No, that's just how we SAY we do it.

Moorecox wrote:
So Pablo is assumed innocent because some people don’t like FLG? That’s some amazing logic right there…

Considering you have to prove guilt and not innocence, yeah in a way sorta. What kinda strange section of the country should consider a round about accusation as capable of damning someone ? They didn't even say what he did and just said " Beware he's bad mmkay ? " People may not like FLG but that has nothing to do with the fact they put out the worse statement and came out of it looking worse from it.

I'd say that is exactly what logic should be, people shouldn't be guilty just on accusation especially when they don't even say what they are accused of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moorecox wrote:
Pablo could have given his account but chose not to, that’s his decision of course.

If someone makes an un founded and hurtful allegation on you, you aren't beholden to defend yourself first, they are beholden to show why you are guilty. How can you defend yourself from claims you don't even know ? For all we know he just pissed them off and they don't like him now. People aren't above harming each other based on emotion alone. If Pablo comes out and says " What they said is bogus. " All they have to say is " No way ! " and we are right back to this again. How would you assume him to defend himself from " He's bad, like real bad. " ?

 StrayIight wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
It's safe to say from statements that pablo handeled this better...
Also whole Situation fishy , my opinion feth all of em and stay away from all sides involved.

That's good advice honestly.

The trouble is that FLG functionally run competitive 40K. Anyone involved in that side of the hobby will find it difficult.

I think that's what bothers me most about all this. FLG have a lot of power and influence in this community. And they seem very prepared to use it.

'This guy cheated in a high profile event, but he said sorry and we like him, so everyone is to forgive him.'

'This guy did something we didn't like, we don't like him. Even though we will never give you any reason why, have nothing to do with him.'

Both of these things have happened in the last few months alone.

See and here is where i disagree. Just because they are a big name and a company to boot i don't see them running competitve as much as being in a parastic position to exploit the scene, but maybee that's a differing viewpoint, i don't need them and their peddling to organise a tournament, quite frankly community driven and community associations are good enough to maintain such a scene without them.

And this is a parade exemple as to why they are unnecessary for even that part of the scene, however it would also mean some responsibility and the removal of lazyness of some of the comp scene to organise themselves bottom up.

Not Online!!! wrote:

See and here is where i disagree. Just because they are a big name and a company to boot i don't see them running competitve as much as being in a parastic position to exploit the scene, but maybee that's a differing viewpoint, i don't need them and their peddling to organise a tournament, quite frankly community driven and community associations are good enough to maintain such a scene without them.

And this is a parade exemple as to why they are unnecessary for even that part of the scen, however it would also mean some responsibility and the removal of lazyness of some of the comp scene to organise themselves bottom up.

Yeah, those are all good points. I couldn't refute them.

In an ideal world (and this may be a big ask, I'm not sure) I'd like to see the community take responsibility for the competitive scene in a more holistic manner. We complain about that aspect of 40K a lot (and often it's fairly justified given many of the inherent issues), but we've very capable people in the community, and if we got off our collective asses, we could likely manage a much healthier scene, fix many of the problems 40k as a competitive entity has, and not make ourselves reliant on a few increasingly dubious individuals.

 StrayIight wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

See and here is where i disagree. Just because they are a big name and a company to boot i don't see them running competitve as much as being in a parastic position to exploit the scene, but maybee that's a differing viewpoint, i don't need them and their peddling to organise a tournament, quite frankly community driven and community associations are good enough to maintain such a scene without them.

And this is a parade exemple as to why they are unnecessary for even that part of the scen, however it would also mean some responsibility and the removal of lazyness of some of the comp scene to organise themselves bottom up.

Yeah, those are all good points. I couldn't refute them.

In an ideal world (and this may be a big ask, I'm not sure) I'd like to see the community take responsibility for the competitive scene in a more holistic manner. We complain about that aspect of 40K a lot (and often it's fairly justified given many of the inherent issues), but we've very capable people in the community, and if we got off our collective asses, we could likely manage a much healthier scene, fix many of the problems 40k as a competitive entity has, and not make ourselves reliant on a few increasingly dubious individuals.

Any community driven system needs to have clear defined leaders within it. Those leaders will either have to be exceptionally dedicated or financially compensated for their time to keep them around. In my experience volunteers can achieve a lot, but they are also always fickle. "reality" or other life concerns can step in and sweep them out without notice or warning. Putting money on the table helps keep people motivated and attentive even with other concerns in life and it means if things do go wrong and they do have to leave suddenly; there is money in the system to pay for someone to replace them.

Heck look at the Nova in the USA; they are losing their volunteer key staff and are now scrabbling to find money to replace them.

 StrayIight wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

See and here is where i disagree. Just because they are a big name and a company to boot i don't see them running competitve as much as being in a parastic position to exploit the scene, but maybee that's a differing viewpoint, i don't need them and their peddling to organise a tournament, quite frankly community driven and community associations are good enough to maintain such a scene without them.

And this is a parade exemple as to why they are unnecessary for even that part of the scen, however it would also mean some responsibility and the removal of lazyness of some of the comp scene to organise themselves bottom up.

Yeah, those are all good points. I couldn't refute them.

In an ideal world (and this may be a big ask, I'm not sure) I'd like to see the community take responsibility for the competitive scene in a more holistic manner. We complain about that aspect of 40K a lot (and often it's fairly justified given many of the inherent issues), but we've very capable people in the community, and if we got off our collective asses, we could likely manage a much healthier scene, fix many of the problems 40k as a competitive entity has, and not make ourselves reliant on a few increasingly dubious individuals.

See that goes for all aspects of 40k, especially in consideration of our not so bernevolent and competent overlord, GW... and it's an attitude that gw doesn't want to support since it could foster actual resistance to some of their rules /DLC shenanigans.
But the defacto monopoly of FLG does hurt the scene overall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:


Any community driven system needs to have clear defined leaders within it. Those leaders will either have to be exceptionally dedicated or financially compensated for their time to keep them around. In my experience volunteers can achieve a lot, but they are also always fickle. "reality" or other life concerns can step in and sweep them out without notice or warning. Putting money on the table helps keep people motivated and attentive even with other concerns in life and it means if things do go wrong and they do have to leave suddenly; there is money in the system to pay for someone to replace them.

Heck look at the Nova in the USA; they are losing their volunteer key staff and are now scrabbling to find money to replace them.

pft

You can have leading institutions without the need for money in such associations. But then again that is a for cultural reasons diffrent interpretation

Aye you can have institutions run without money, but as I noted they run at a higher level of risk. If you lose a paid staff member you can replace them with someone else paid for the job fairly quickly these days.

If you lose someone who is donating their time for free then you've got a much harder to job to replace them for the same cost. You might have many volunteers, but they might not have the required skill set and those people who do have the required skills will be professionals who might well require paying.


Again I cite the recent drive by the Nova event in the USA where they are trying to raise a huge load of money, in part to pay for new staff to replace volunteers who are stepping down.

 Overread wrote:
Aye you can have institutions run without money, but as I noted they run at a higher level of risk. If you lose a paid staff member you can replace them with someone else paid for the job fairly quickly these days.

If you lose someone who is donating their time for free then you've got a much harder to job to replace them for the same cost. You might have many volunteers, but they might not have the required skill set and those people who do have the required skills will be professionals who might well require paying.


Again I cite the recent drive by the Nova event in the USA where they are trying to raise a huge load of money, in part to pay for new staff to replace volunteers who are stepping down.

You can have institutions as entities and still manage money to buy services though.
F.e. A ref or other personel should still be paid. You also can apply a system of forced labour to members of an association.

There are ways around it. It's just that i feel that GW gamers in particular are rather lazy in many ways.

Not Online!!! 798474 11136117 wrote:

See and here is where i disagree. Just because they are a big name and a company to boot i don't see them running competitve as much as being in a parastic position to exploit the scene, but maybee that's a differing viewpoint, i don't need them and their peddling to organise a tournament, quite frankly community driven and community associations are good enough to maintain such a scene without them.

And this is a parade exemple as to why they are unnecessary for even that part of the scene, however it would also mean some responsibility and the removal of lazyness of some of the comp scene to organise themselves bottom up.

Okey, but that is kind of a semantic thing to argue. AT&T is a regular big name company or a parasitic entity that cut up a few countries in to influance zones? One can say that one doesn't need FLG, but when they are the testers for GW and their ideas are being implemented in to the game, then you can live on another continent, never play a game in the US and still get impact by it.

Togusa wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Knowing the current political climate and the fact FLG is in California I believe, it was probably that he said something that fell on the wrong political side and offended someone so he was cancelled.

You're quite the caricature, huh?

This poster isn't entirely out of the ball park here. Personally I wondered if this wasn't a sexual harassment issue.

No, he is entirely out of the ball park. That you seem to consider sexual harassment a matter of 'the wrong political side' shows just how far from reality the sentiment is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! 798474 11136117 wrote:

See and here is where i disagree. Just because they are a big name and a company to boot i don't see them running competitve as much as being in a parastic position to exploit the scene, but maybee that's a differing viewpoint, i don't need them and their peddling to organise a tournament, quite frankly community driven and community associations are good enough to maintain such a scene without them.

And this is a parade exemple as to why they are unnecessary for even that part of the scene, however it would also mean some responsibility and the removal of lazyness of some of the comp scene to organise themselves bottom up.

Okey, but that is kind of a semantic thing to argue. AT&T is a regular big name company or a parasitic entity that cut up a few countries in to influance zones? One can say that one doesn't need FLG, but when they are the testers for GW and their ideas are being implemented in to the game, then you can live on another continent, never play a game in the US and still get impact by it.

Indeed. Like it or not FLG has a huge impact on 40k. Anyone else remember when FLG mentioned maybe banning Iron Hands then GW suddenly came out with an unscheduled eratta for them (and only them) two days later?