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The fact that there are more AoS ports in the Tsons Codex than actual newly designed Tsons units is just depressing. I don't have anything against AoS, I just want to know why the design team was able to make DG so good and have such a good range of kits then Tsons got like six kits and one of them was Tzaangors with an upgrade sprue.

 Gert wrote:
The fact that there are more AoS ports in the Tsons Codex than actual newly designed Tsons units is just depressing. I don't have anything against AoS, I just want to know why the design team was able to make DG so good and have such a good range of kits then Tsons got like six kits and one of them was Tzaangors with an upgrade sprue.

One was an experiment at a dedicated book/faction that took a sub0faction form a larger book (in this case the base Chaos codex) and the other was a total redesign to allow a faction to exist in a fresh starter box that created a new rule set (8th).

One of these two requires a lot more work to do properly than the other.

And Tsons got their 8th release after DG did and got half the Arcanites range ported over instead of actually fleshing out the faction. Even now into 9th it seems that DG still got a better deal on new kits if the preview for the GK vs Tsons box is anything to go by.
I get that Tsons came first so obviously their initial wave was "meh" but come one, when most of the army is shared with another game system its hardly fair.

 Gert wrote:
And Tsons got their 8th release after DG did and got half the Arcanites range ported over instead of actually fleshing out the faction. Even now into 9th it seems that DG still got a better deal on new kits if the preview for the GK vs Tsons box is anything to go by.
I get that Tsons came first so obviously their initial wave was "meh" but come one, when most of the army is shared with another game system its hardly fair.

I've started collecting pure/undivided Daemons. respectfully I disagree here.
Porting a model range from AoS to 40k because it can work as the 'weird cultist' equivalent for 1k Sons seems perfectly fine. Or would you say every AoS Daemon release should be locked out from Daemon players too?

No because Daemons have always been marketed as multigame armies and on the old boxes it had stamps for Chaos Daemons, 40k and WHFB.
Tsons are a 40k army that got 6 fully new kits for their army and a Tzaangor upgrade sprue. In 8th the army got more Tzaangors and the Mutalith. There is a difference between one cultist unit and 10/27 units in the Codex being Daemons/Tzaangors.

 BroodSpawn wrote:

 Gert wrote:
And Tsons got their 8th release after DG did and got half the Arcanites range ported over instead of actually fleshing out the faction. Even now into 9th it seems that DG still got a better deal on new kits if the preview for the GK vs Tsons box is anything to go by.
I get that Tsons came first so obviously their initial wave was "meh" but come one, when most of the army is shared with another game system its hardly fair.

I've started collecting pure/undivided Daemons. respectfully I disagree here.
Porting a model range from AoS to 40k because it can work as the 'weird cultist' equivalent for 1k Sons seems perfectly fine. Or would you say every AoS Daemon release should be locked out from Daemon players too?

The problem is that trying to make tzaangors into weird cultists is a pretty serious "square peg round hole" scenario. The existence of Tzaangor Enlightened blessed with discs to ride on works just fine in AoS but is absurd in the context of a CSM army where we're supposed to see them models as gakky chaff. The initial tzaangors work okay as poxwalker equivalents but the Enlightened and Shaman were a mistake.

looking at the codices thus far, GW seems to mostly be toning the wombo-combo down but at the same time over all the codices are better over all. I have high hopes for the CSM 9th edition codex.

BrianDavion wrote:
looking at the codices thus far, GW seems to mostly be toning the wombo-combo down but at the same time over all the codices are better over all. I have high hopes for the CSM 9th edition codex.

I hope you are right. But sadly, I think you will be wrong. Hope for the best and expect the worst, a chaos marine players mantra. The fact well be getting at the tail end of a edition is pretty bad regardless. We certainly needed more than most (personal bias).

As for the 1ksons. As a avid 1kson player (former) I can tell you they are in fact, not fine. On any level. On a hobby level they have a minimal amount of non ported kits and rules wise we are at the very bottom. 1ksons and Grey Knights needed their codexs first as the change to the psychic phase impacted them greatly (and a negative impact). But just like Papa chaos marines, well be getting our codex at the close of the edition if at all.

Imho, the treatment of 1ksons players by GW screams of a future squatting and refolding into the chaos marine codex. Which may not be such a bad idea to be honest. I would actually prefer this to happen as I am thinking about it.

1ksons will be getting their codex after Orks, along with Grey Knights, not at the end of the edition. That leaves only one group of Marines to go. Ever heard the saying: "Saving the best for last "? I can remember another time CSM got our codex at the end of an edition, and it was certainly worth the wait.....

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
1ksons will be getting their codex after Orks, along with Grey Knights, not at the end of the edition. That leaves only one group of Marines to go. Ever heard the saying: "Saving the best for last "? I can remember another time CSM got our codex at the end of an edition, and it was certainly worth the wait.....

on the opther hand alst edition the last marines to get a dex where space wolves (well before the 8.5 'dexes) which was universally a "we waited this long for this?!"

Table wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
looking at the codices thus far, GW seems to mostly be toning the wombo-combo down but at the same time over all the codices are better over all. I have high hopes for the CSM 9th edition codex.

I hope you are right. But sadly, I think you will be wrong. Hope for the best and expect the worst, a chaos marine players mantra.

Wisdom. The DG book is fantastic and I've had a blast playing them, and if the CSM book is of equivalent quality I'll be thrilled, but that is a hell of an "if".

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Table wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
looking at the codices thus far, GW seems to mostly be toning the wombo-combo down but at the same time over all the codices are better over all. I have high hopes for the CSM 9th edition codex.

I hope you are right. But sadly, I think you will be wrong. Hope for the best and expect the worst, a chaos marine players mantra.

Wisdom. The DG book is fantastic and I've had a blast playing them, and if the CSM book is of equivalent quality I'll be thrilled, but that is a hell of an "if".

so far just about every 9th edition codex has been pretty damn great so... I have high hopes for CSMs

BrianDavion wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Table wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
looking at the codices thus far, GW seems to mostly be toning the wombo-combo down but at the same time over all the codices are better over all. I have high hopes for the CSM 9th edition codex.

I hope you are right. But sadly, I think you will be wrong. Hope for the best and expect the worst, a chaos marine players mantra.

Wisdom. The DG book is fantastic and I've had a blast playing them, and if the CSM book is of equivalent quality I'll be thrilled, but that is a hell of an "if".

so far just about every 9th edition codex has been pretty damn great so... I have high hopes for CSMs

So do I, but the "update" coming in the Charadon book, along with removing all of the "Chaos" rules from our fw units makes me start to wonder if they're putting any effort into CSM.

I wonder if I am going to be right and this is all chaos is going to get this edition. I have a sinking feeling there will be no codex.

Table wrote:
I wonder if I am going to be right and this is all chaos is going to get this edition. I have a sinking feeling there will be no codex.

There will be a codex, we just have to wait for:

Grey Knights, Thousand Sons, Orks, Tyranids, Astra Militarum, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Black Templar supplement and perhaps more before it comes.

Rihgu wrote:
There will be a codex, we just have to wait for:
... Emperor's Children, World Eaters...

To be fair, getting these two first would only be a boon to regular CSM armies.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
There will be a codex, we just have to wait for:
... Emperor's Children, World Eaters...

To be fair, getting these two first would only be a boon to regular CSM armies.

How so? As Death Guard indicates, we wouldn't get the benefits of any of the new rules for the units regular CSM have access to (Plague Marines, Daemon Engines). Unless you mean, CSM could soup with them?

Rihgu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
There will be a codex, we just have to wait for:
... Emperor's Children, World Eaters...

To be fair, getting these two first would only be a boon to regular CSM armies.

How so? As Death Guard indicates, we wouldn't get the benefits of any of the new rules for the units regular CSM have access to (Plague Marines, Daemon Engines). Unless you mean, CSM could soup with them?

More space in the codex for the remaining 5 Legions means more focus for them. More pages per Legion, basically.

Rihgu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
There will be a codex, we just have to wait for:
... Emperor's Children, World Eaters...

To be fair, getting these two first would only be a boon to regular CSM armies.

How so? As Death Guard indicates, we wouldn't get the benefits of any of the new rules for the units regular CSM have access to (Plague Marines, Daemon Engines). Unless you mean, CSM could soup with them?

moving the other two "cult" legions out of the "main" CSM dex would reduce the number of styles of marine it would need to support, thus making it easier to write a book which better represents the remaining 5 legions.

Alongside that, launching new brand new codexes (as opposed to 9th ed versions of existing ones) would likely come with significant numbers of new models, most of which would be "undivided CSM" compatible (as, say, "mark of X" units).

Mark of X units would only be compatible with the CSM book if EC and WE don't get moved to their own codex. There's no real reason why The Purge couldn't have Poxwalkers but they don't because that's a Death Guard unit made to fill out the Death Guard codex. The best the CSM codex would get is just being able to use the upgraded plastic Zerkers/Noise Marines.

Rihgu wrote:
How so? As Death Guard indicates, we wouldn't get the benefits of any of the new rules for the units regular CSM have access to (Plague Marines, Daemon Engines). Unless you mean, CSM could soup with them?

Others have pointed out the obvious design space issues, and how moving WE and EC out would allow for a greater focus on the remaining Legions (and Renegades, for that matter), but having WE/EC done prior to a new CSM Codex allows for complete rules to appear in the CSM book.

Think about it this way:

CSM Codex comes out. It has the word-for-word rules for Plague Marines and 1KSons from their respective books, and then it has Berzerker/Noise Marine rules based on the (ancient out-of-date) minis that currently exist. Then the WE/EC books hit with completely new 'Zerker and Noise Marine kits, full of new hats options that didn't exist before. Now you've got a CSM Codex that has half updated cult units, and half old cult units. The new CSM book is therefore already missing new rules, and we're in a Slaaneshi Daemons in 8th situation, where they're going to have to re-print them (maybe more than once) in supplement books to allow CSM armies to use these updated cult units without the need to soup.

Of course, GW could release a new Zerker and Noise Marine kit along side the new CSM kit, making the above moot, but it's more likely that they release those as headline releases alongside actual WE/EC books.

Table wrote:
I wonder if I am going to be right and this is all chaos is going to get this edition. I have a sinking feeling there will be no codex.

Not a chance.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Table wrote:
I wonder if I am going to be right and this is all chaos is going to get this edition. I have a sinking feeling there will be no codex.

Not a chance.

I mean, they won't get no Codex. They might get a copy-paste book with no new content, a few things that didn't have models deleted, and some uninspired Crusade rules.