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I would definitely not make lootas 2 shots each. A loota is the the epitomy of ork infantry shooting, the very personification of the word "Dakka" in infantry form.

They are the type of infantry shooting that should have the most amount of shots. More than flash gitz.

Flash gitz lorewise is meant to be quality shooting, Lootas are quantity shooting. They should have 5 shots each.

Dakka 4/5 id say.

Lootas are certainly improved with the dakka profile, heavy weapons are bad for infantries. Units of 10-15 dudes that fire from the corner and never move are impractical in 9th thanks to terrain. The ability of moving and shoot with no penalty is invaluable, so is cutting randomness on the number of shots.

If anything it's the autocannon profile that aged, but I guess it's hard to improve it while keeping some purpose for the rokkit launcha. Possibly their heavy support role aged as well, they could be elites once again now that they don't even fire heavy weapons.

Flash gitz would benefit a lot if their weapons get a dakka profile as well.

 Nora wrote:
Hi
I am in a sort of dilemma and would be happy for some input from you guys.
I plan to run a Groff list with multiple Stormboyz and Kommandos units. the problem is what HQ to choose... This is for a 1000-1500 points list. At first I looked into the Warboss or Warboss in Mega Armour in order to get access to the +1 to hit aura, but both these options are rather slow so I am not sure that these are very good. It does not help to run them as Trukkboyz since this will mess up their keywords so that the other units wont get the to-hit bonus anyway. Alternatively I could run the Squig-Boss, it a bigger threat but will probably not be able to charge the first turn anyway and will not give any to-hit bonus to the named units. Third option is to use Ghazghull but this looks like the least appealing option for me.
Cheers!

Warboss on bike is fast and can Waagh with the caveat that this unit may change wildly in the faq.
Zagstrukk also isn’t bad in a goff stormboy heavy list… you can take a full 15 man squad of storm boys or multiple and largely not worry to much about morale losses because most times you won’t lose more then 2 with him nearby but he has no + hit aura…
Also I don’t think the warboss variant in a trukk boy transport messes up keywords but someone feel free to correct me.

Beyond that you are correct the squigboss is just slow enough not to make a first turn charge.
I kinda wish the mega/meka dread was an HQ choice for a true dreadmob HQ.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
I’m cool with the ratings now was mostly just confused w wazbom being higher then the rig. When it did less for more points. And I’m not saying the rig is a must take. Outside of buggy spam it becomes a big target.

I changed that two days ago *whacks gungo with a grot prod*

At this point we need to wait for the faq and campaign preview rules, since things can wildly change depending on how they rule specialist nobs and change FW units.

What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

 Blackie wrote:
Lootas are certainly improved with the dakka profile, heavy weapons are bad for infantries. Units of 10-15 dudes that fire from the corner and never move are impractical in 9th thanks to terrain. The ability of moving and shoot with no penalty is invaluable, so is cutting randomness on the number of shots.

If anything it's the autocannon profile that aged, but I guess it's hard to improve it while keeping some purpose for the rokkit launcha. Possibly their heavy support role aged as well, they could be elites once again now that they don't even fire heavy weapons.

I made a point along these lines in another thread - the issue is probably less about Lootas being bad and more to do with the rest of the game power-creeping past classic heavy weapon infantry. The 9E meta skews towards units that are mobile, while many FOTM units also have great defensive gimmicks like -1 damage, ignoring AP 1/2, transhuman, or -1 to hit. All of those hurt a BS5+ S7 AP-1 D2 weapon profile.

Meanwhile many of the codex units they're competing with (like buggies) are highly mobile with a built-in -1 damage and can use melee when needed. That's before factoring in strats & speedwaagh benefits.

It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.

 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

Mega mek with DDSS is actually really good if you have a spare HQ slot and CP. Both the KFF and the TPB are both viable picks, but I would personally lean towards the TPB.

Opportunist will probably be worthwhile if you have the spare CP and actually want to go character hunting with him.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

Mega mek with DDSS is actually really good if you have a spare HQ slot and CP. Both the KFF and the TPB are both viable picks, but I would personally lean towards the TPB.

Opportunist will probably be worthwhile if you have the spare CP and actually want to go character hunting with him.

Yeah, used a DDSS megamek on the weekend. He was goffs so out of his element, but still great for putting a dent in MEQ units. I got lucky and managed to clear out a 5 man rubric squad in one round. Great times!

If you take a megamek for the KFF they're pretty good for adding some firesupport after reducing the first turn shooting with the stratagem. Though a KMB is still some good dakka, just more swingy by nature.

 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

It’s hard to find a secondary HQ that fills a role in your army for a battalion.
If you have ghaz… Makari is a great choice.
If you don’t have ghaz your choice is basically the mega Mek as most other choices don’t seem to be as point efficient..

With the mega Mek you either lean into his shooting profile with a da shiny shoota (better if he jumps into a trukk boys transport) with or without the tellyporta or you take da krushin armor with tellyporta blasta for a more defensive profile.. He’s also the only decent choice if you decide you want to blow up a kff turn 1. He’s essentially good by default but I wouldn’t go out of my way to put him in a list.

 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

I like the price, profile and I love the model I can create, but I don 't see the way how to use them now. Slow and short range. Needs some transport - increase his price. I think I see better and more flexible options how to spent a points or what HQ to take.

Really wish GW let meganobz act like actual terminators. Dakka at full range and ignore heavy modifiers. Would help Kustom shootas and Kombi rokkits hold their own.

I've run tellyporta mek with dss. Great unit. I used a trukk but footslogging alongside buggies is also ok - obviously, tellyporta ain't working t1 in this case.

 xttz wrote:


It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.

Honest answer: because I have X and not Y and Z models. It's the same dilemma tons of SM units have, those with countless alternatives to serve the same purpose. Model's availability in real life is a thing. To me the greatest issue lootas have (and flash gitz with them) is the heavy support role; I'm playing lists with 0-4 HS but 3 solo mek gunz and a BW are staples in my style of playing. If they were elites I'd likely play them quite regularly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

I think BM big mek with relic shoota is a very good unit, especially with turn 1 KFF shenanigan. Deathskull one with Opportunist is also worth a shot, if you want to play with that klan anyway. Adding a WL to him for 1 CP is always a good option IMHO, as BM I'm giving him the invuln and +1 save. Opprtunist also gives you some chance to regain CPs.

Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

I wonder if its a fuckup that the stormboyz nob cant carry a big choppa and only a Powerklaw? Maybe that gets FAQ'ed. but i expect not.

 Blackie wrote:

 xttz wrote:


It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.

Honest answer: because I have X and not Y and Z models. It's the same dilemma tons of SM units have, those with countless alternatives to serve the same purpose. Model's availability in real life is a thing. To me the greatest issue lootas have (and flash gitz with them) is the heavy support role; I'm playing lists with 0-4 HS but 3 solo mek gunz and a BW are staples in my style of playing. If they were elites I'd likely play them quite regularly.

Oh I fully agree, it was a bit of a rhetorical question to be honest. There are others in this thread with far more established Ork collections who would always want to take the optimal units, but of course that's not everyone.

Personally I have no interest in buggies as the models don't inspire me in the same way as the rest of the Ork range. I'm in the process of buying & painting my first Orks right now. It's unlikely I'll be able to field a fully painted 2000pt army before the next major points / FAQ update. The last thing I want to do is drop a bunch of cash and several weeks painting models that will likely eat a points hike before I get any real use from them. Instead I'm focusing on my favourite units as a foundation for the army.

On the advice of someone here I went and picked up a spare box of the old Boyz to put aside before they went OOP, on the expectation that I'll likely get Lootas at some point in the future and be able to make the Burnas too.

Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots

 R1ncewind wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots

Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.

 Grimskul wrote:

 R1ncewind wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots

Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.

It can not get the keyword, but it should be able to profit from an unit of trukk boys inside the same trukk, since the trukk boy +1 to hit applies to the trukk they are in and as such to all models inside the trukk as well

 R1ncewind wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 R1ncewind wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots

Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.

It can not get the keyword, but it should be able to profit from an unit of trukk boys inside the same trukk, since the trukk boy +1 to hit applies to the trukk they are in and as such to all models inside the trukk as well

It's hard to say atm, because its not clear how they'll be errata'ing how specialist mobz work currently. As it is, trukk boyz don't work as written, but I don't know if they'll allow both a KLAN unit and a specialist mob unit in the same trukk due to differing keywords.

 Grimskul wrote:

Spoiler:

 R1ncewind wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 R1ncewind wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots

Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.

It can not get the keyword, but it should be able to profit from an unit of trukk boys inside the same trukk, since the trukk boy +1 to hit applies to the trukk they are in and as such to all models inside the trukk as well

It's hard to say atm, because its not clear how they'll be errata'ing how specialist mobz work currently. As it is, trukk boyz don't work as written, but I don't know if they'll allow both a KLAN unit and a specialist mob unit in the same trukk due to differing keywords.

That they can ride together was the assumption in the first quoted post and I think it is reasonable. There is nothing to do but wait for it, though.

Fingers crossed we should get the FAQ this weekend. Charadon II came out 1 week before the Beastsnagga box, and that got a FAQ last Friday.

Today's warcom article also hinted at the Ork codex going on general release as the first Sept pre-order.

'the assumption" is correct.
Thats all it is. As is, subkultures cannot go into a transport period even though nobody is going to enforce that right now because it breaks a lot of crap.
How they choose to fix this problem will spur other reactions, namely the above of a BS3 mek that isnt a trukkboy benefitting via OpenTopped mod sharing.

 R1ncewind wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots

i didnt give my Mek +1 to hit that way.

 koooaei wrote:
Another thing about mini meks. They're characters, are one of the cheapest around and can also perform actions. Now with how look out sir works, you can have a unit of grots hidden out of Los while mek can perform actions in the open and while he is within 3 of grots and further from the enemy than ANY other friendly unit - not necessarily this grots, he can just hold a point with no danger of being shot to bits.

Most relevant actions cannot be performed by characters though. The only one you can pick in any mission is Raise The Banners High and a mek and gretchin aren't exactly great at scoring a lot of points from raised banners. Essentially this would only work for certain mission specific secondaries, and at least half of the action ones are not something you would ever pick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Mega mek with DDSS is actually really good if you have a spare HQ slot and CP. Both the KFF and the TPB are both viable picks, but I would personally lean towards the TPB.

Opportunist will probably be worthwhile if you have the spare CP and actually want to go character hunting with him.

Please refrain from using abbreviations that aren't resolved by the forum software or super common, it makes your posts much more readable for others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
Really wish GW let meganobz act like actual terminators. Dakka at full range and ignore heavy modifiers. Would help Kustom shootas and Kombi rokkits hold their own.

Yeah, they need something, at the very least free weapon options. While I usually hate these kind of comparisons, it feels utterly wrong that a dual killsaw MAN is almost as much as deathshroud terminator who feel like a unit of warbosses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:
It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.

That's essentially what blue tier is - this unit can do what it is supposed to do (high range light anti-tank), but there are better units. It also doesn't help that the game currently has no need for light anti-tank shooting, but that is a completely different.

In contrast, yellow is for units that do not perform well at their intended role. For example nobz cannot perform as their intended role of elite melee experts and thus belong in yellow tier.

So for people like Blackie, who might have up to 45 lootas flying around from 5th, it's fine to run lootas in a semi-competitive environment without automatically tossing the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
It's hard to say atm, because its not clear how they'll be errata'ing how specialist mobz work currently. As it is, trukk boyz don't work as written, but I don't know if they'll allow both a KLAN unit and a specialist mob unit in the same trukk due to differing keywords.

I need to put that on the rules list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hilarious thoughts on modifier problem.

If I put beast snaggas inside a kill rig, do the beast snaggas inside get +2 to hit when shooting transports and mosters?

If I run a unit of trukk boyz and put 2 SAGs with it, do those SAGs hit on 3+?

Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .

 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .

its not an ork rule.

Its in the rare rules section i believe.

 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .

There was a FAQ, you can find it on page 8 of the BRB FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf

 Jidmah wrote:

 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .

There was a FAQ, you can find it on page 8 of the BRB FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf

found it, thanks

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Another thing about mini meks. They're characters, are one of the cheapest around and can also perform actions. Now with how look out sir works, you can have a unit of grots hidden out of Los while mek can perform actions in the open and while he is within 3 of grots and further from the enemy than ANY other friendly unit - not necessarily this grots, he can just hold a point with no danger of being shot to bits.

Most relevant actions cannot be performed by characters though. The only one you can pick in any mission is Raise The Banners High and a mek and gretchin aren't exactly great at scoring a lot of points from raised banners. Essentially this would only work for certain mission specific secondaries, and at least half of the action ones are not something you would ever pick.

There's nothing wrong with banners. Pretty good for us - at least it's competing with octarius data and can potentially bring more points. Also, scoring a point in the open with an untargetable character is what can win you games.

Also, I've calculated skrapjets damage output vs unbuffed Mortarion and found out that apeedwaagh skrapjets deals 1.7 wounds with shooting (1.1 comes from bigshootas) and 1.2 in mellee - mostly from mortal wounds.
Not saying it's a great idea to charge Mortarion but the fact that mellee can give such a huge percentage boost is a bit unexpected. I'm even more positive for blood axes now.

Does it work well for you? I eventually stopped using it, because it's just to easy for other armies to tear them down.

For the Mortarion math did you consider the 5+++, -1 to hit and anti-rerolls aura?
But yes, rokkits and MW are great against him in general. You just need to keep in mind the variance of three 4+ rolls, there is a good chance that you fail all of them and just have put three buggies to the scythe.

 Jidmah wrote:

 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .

There was a FAQ, you can find it on page 8 of the BRB FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf

but doesnt the sentence from your link:
If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its
ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls,
etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model
makes a ranged attack."

Pretty much mean that you DO get +1 to hit when you remain on your trukk with trukkboys? you give it +1 to hit, and you get +1 to hit yourself. Furthermore, wouldnt that also mean that during a speedwaaagh you do actually get the extra AP on infantry shooting as well while embarked?

I know we are waiting for an FAQ to shed light on the case but it seems pretty clear that right now thats how it works. I have not been playing it that way.