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 GoldenHorde wrote:
I'm thinking of doing a dreadbomb

3 x deff dreads with 4 klaws each with big krumpas specialist mob tellyported in.

Good idea or not?

That depends on whether they make the charge or not. If all three make the 9 inch charge, then its amazing. But its a big gamble.

An alternative would be to tellyport 5-6 kans (with no upgrades), and then use the Ramming Speed stratagem to make the charge. Ramming speed is less effective on the dreads, because they split up when they they hit the table. On the other hand, two kans have less damage output in melee than a single 4-klaw dread.

 GoldenHorde wrote:
I'm thinking of doing a dreadbomb

3 x deff dreads with 4 klaws each with big krumpas specialist mob tellyported in.

Good idea or not?

3 deffdreads are not an army. It' s one small unit. You mean 3x3deffdreads?

Fun game? Yeah, why not.

Competitive? No.

Two weeks ago I had a game againts some Grey Knight or what type Hummie it was. Tons of slow killy CC units and tons of deepstrike and Teleports during the game for moving with them. His plan was obvious - spam me with 9” charges and some of them pass.

So I spread my army and screen so, he had to deepstrike in his own deploy in turn 2, because there was no other place on the board. Failed couple of charges and succesfully charged with his 250p unit my kommandos for 50p and killed them. And than it takes 2 turns until he marched to some objectives and into some CC. Meanwhile I was shooting him down.

Good armies can screen well and force you to drop home.
9” charges even with Ramming speed is not sure. Without Ramming speed it is pure lotery. You cannot build a game plan about it.

The last deepstrike plan that works I saw was couple of years ago some another hummie that was able to drop 2 squads of 10 terminators 6” from my units. That was bloody hard to screen and he could be pretty sure he pass one of two 6” charges and 10 shield terminators was so gak damn hard to kill and so many models, they simply occupied the field and press me out.

Thinking about a tournament list with 3-4 Scrapjets, 5 Squigbuggies, 2 Squigbosses, 1 Wartrike, 1 Mek, 2 x 5 Stormboys and 2 x 5 Kommandos, 10 gretchin plus two Killrigs.

Wanna go for Blood Axe Buggies, Death Skulls Stormboys / Kommandos and auxiliary Mozrog.
Would you rather take the Rigs as BA for flexibility or as DS for the rerolls or go for one each?

Also I think Deathkilla Wartrike as Warlord for the Speedwaaagh, or should I try to go for a regular Waaagh and make 1 Squigboss Warlord?

Also think about Killrig list. But I think about Evil Sunz simply to get them into enemy deploy T1 for sure…. + Freebotas buggies for the rest.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Thinking about a tournament list with 3-4 Scrapjets, 5 Squigbuggies, 2 Squigbosses, 1 Wartrike, 1 Mek, 2 x 5 Stormboys and 2 x 5 Kommandos, 10 gretchin plus two Killrigs.

Wanna go for Blood Axe Buggies, Death Skulls Stormboys / Kommandos and auxiliary Mozrog.
Would you rather take the Rigs as BA for flexibility or as DS for the rerolls or go for one each?

Also I think Deathkilla Wartrike as Warlord for the Speedwaaagh, or should I try to go for a regular Waaagh and make 1 Squigboss Warlord?

Why Mozrog as an aux? You are essentially paying 1 CP to skip troops and lose his culture. I would either re-arrange your army into two outriders and pay 2 more CP or get a second unit of gretchin.to keep the culture.

I'm not sure anything would want/be able to lock a killrig in combat, plus the DS trait also provides protection against perils.

Kill rig also is nice as freebooter, could carry badskull banner with huge footprint and has auto-hit/ built- in +1 to hit against vehicles to help trigger the culture...

Do we know if/when the contents of the new Ork Combat Patrol will be released separately?
So that we can get the following units:
- New Boyz
- Mega Warboss
- Deffkoptas

 Bonde wrote:
Do we know if/when the contents of the new Ork Combat Patrol will be released separately?
So that we can get the following units:
- New Boyz
- Mega Warboss
- Deffkoptas

Currently there are no known plans for that. Your best bet is probably buying single sprues off ebay or similar platforms.

Bossdoc wrote:
Kill rig also is nice as freebooter, could carry badskull banner with huge footprint and has auto-hit/ built- in +1 to hit against vehicles to help trigger the culture...

Well, I 'm not sure freebota trait is such a miracle on Killrig. In shooting phase, it could be the difference +/- one hit with dmg 2 or 3. Maybe two hits in melee with dmg 1-3. And you are not sure, you tigger it.

The power of Killrig is, that it deals a serious damage in 3 different phases, incl bunch of mortal wounds, is fast, hard and if you kill it, 10 obsec Beastboyz jumps out. That is pretty complex set of abilities supporting himself.

This is not compatible so much with freebota trait /per phase. Combination with Banner is however great.

I see bigger potential in DS - as Jidmah point out the 5+++ againts mortals + rerols are sure in every phase. That is a pretty synergy with multiphase rule set of the Killrig.

And I gonna definitely try the ES because of the difference in alphacharge.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Bonde wrote:
Do we know if/when the contents of the new Ork Combat Patrol will be released separately?
So that we can get the following units:
- New Boyz
- Mega Warboss
- Deffkoptas

Currently there are no known plans for that. Your best bet is probably buying single sprues off ebay or similar platforms.

I bought my warboss in mega armor that way, from ebay

No sucesfull orks on LGT but couple of victories around. And one of them is triple killtank goff list and another one is built around the Gargantuan Squiggoth.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-london-goes-big/

Which makes me thinking about tripple killrig goff list, but I' m really not sure about this idea…



Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is interesting is, the first part of the goonhammer article. Most of the sucesfull list aims to 100VP.

Which is a missery for orks. In any mission, we find 2 secondaries we can score. If we skip the Octarius data (max 12VP), it is significantly harder. But let' s say, we can do it.

But the third? If the mission and opponent do not offer you some, you suck. And the top lists offer you nothing. On the other side, we offer max on some secodnary almost always.

We can discuss how many hits or wounds per point some of our units can do, but it' s all bullgak face to the fact, we are unable to score 100 on top competitive level.

Except the way to smash opponent of the table before he scores 100. And I' m not sure, we can do it to some armies….

 Tomsug wrote:
No sucesfull orks on LGT but couple of victories around. And one of them is triple killtank goff list and another one is built around the Gargantuan Squiggoth.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-london-goes-big/

Which makes me thinking about tripple killrig goff list, but I' m really not sure about this idea…



Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is interesting is, the first part of the goonhammer article. Most of the sucesfull list aims to 100VP.

Which is a missery for orks. In any mission, we find 2 secondaries we can score. If we skip the Octarius data (max 12VP), it is significantly harder. But let' s say, we can do it.

But the third? If the mission and opponent do not offer you some, you suck. And the top lists offer you nothing. On the other side, we offer max on some secodnary almost always.

We can discuss how many hits or wounds per point some of our units can do, but it' s all bullgak face to the fact, we are unable to score 100 on top competitive level.

Except the way to smash opponent of the table before he scores 100. And I' m not sure, we can do it to some armies….

Why Goff kill tanks? While they have CC i wouldnt say thats their strength. Unless its for transporting goff units, but.. yea

looking at his list, he has either cavalry or infantry outside of those killtanks, quite a few of which are meganobz.

Theyre goff for transport capability. He's abusing the fact that Killtanks are primarily just steel walls on treads, technically theyre not that strong offensively theyre just laughably durable for their cost range.
Also big footprints so im guessing his cavalry was hiding behind them, so the ONLY thing that could get shot was using indirect fire on cavalry (T6) or hitting the tanks (T8), the KFF mek sitting outside to start with.

Thats not something you can alpha strike.

Killtanks transport 20? ( think it was 20) models, but all transports cant transport mix clans except flashgitz. So either he hoofs his goffs or sacrifices a relatively minor boost for the killtanks being badmoonz or deathskullz.

i like this guy. He thinks like me with his lists lol.

Using Killtanks as durable blocks is a decent enough battleplan. About 10 points per T8 3Sv wound is a nice enough exchange. A bit of auto healing and the potential to reduce damage is just icing. Goffs gives an okay bump of extra damage in CC. But if you're pushing the durability of the killtanks wouldn't you go Blood axe for the cover buff at long range? I guess they'd also work well in a freebootaz list to proc the trait.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Tomsug wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Stormboyz and Kommandos can be played in units of 10 . Stormboyz also have fly which might help to bypass some terrain or other units, even enemy screeners maybe, while trukks (and boyz) have to find a clear path in front of them.

That is right. Kommandos however die before do enything if you go second. So it' s maybe the waste of the points. Or maybe not.. depends… at least, they have a good save.

Stormboyz in squad of 10 - well - deifnitely not able to charge T1, cost 110p and has no protection. Trukkboyz are protected by trukk, kommandos by cover.

All of this depends heavily on your gameplan. What do what and why. Non of these 3 units is uterly wrong. All good for scoring primaries, secondaries and blocking movement/control table. Non of them deal a significant damage except killing some GEQ.

On the other side, MANz in Trukk imho are wrong, because what was said before. These cannot do well anything of what metioned above. And their damage potential is low per point in comparison with other damage dealing units like scrapjets. Plus they tend to be dead before do anything.

Im gonna try three 15 strong units of kommandos just because I have the models. I dont really expect them to kill a lot but I do expect them to be a pain for the opponent to shift once you hit that threshold of 45 plus snikrot. If the opponent goes all in on killing them I have a relatively unmolested gunline of kannonwagons and scrapjets with some bikers and stormboyz to grab objectives. If they ignore the kommandos, I can push them up and start swarming things. They can even threaten vehicles with bomb squigs and the tankbusta bomb strat as well as klaws and maybe the breacha ram. Its only two attacks but S7 ap2 D2 seems pretty decent for 5pts if Im planning on melee anyways. I think if you threw a bomb squig, tankbusta bomb, and all the melee attacks, you could probbaly drop some decently tough vehicles in a single turn, especially if you focus fired all 3 squads bomb squigs into a single target somehow.

I dont expect it to get me top table but I think itll do ok, especially as blood axes. I will say though that I would only do a 15 ork squad when I plan on taking as many as possible. If I only had 15 kommandos Id run them as 3 units of 5 before Id run a single 15 man squad. Once I get a couple games with them next week Ill let people know how it did, especially going second. Im hoping the stormboyz, deff koptaz, and bikes can cover the objective role the kommandos normally cover, but we'll see.

Math Hammer Time. If you are Goff and take 15 kommandos, (14 and PK nob) you get 56 attacks on a WAAAGH turn from the boyz at S5 Ap-1 That works out to 46.6 hits (remember, goff, exploding 6s) if you use the Distraction grot against a T8 3+ vehicle you end up doing..... 11.6dmg from just the boyz. The PK Nob swings at 4 attacks on PK for 3.3 hits, he is wounding on 2s so 2.77 wounds and against a 3+ its 4.6ish dmg total. so you end up doing 16ish dmg from a 15 strong Kommandos unit against T8 3+, and that is without a breacha ram and without the Bomb squig or Tankbusta Strat.

Personally, I prefer 10 to minimize Morale/Blast rules but if you want to run the extra models that is fine as well But yeah, the main point I am making is that they are absolute beat sticks in CC. They are just significantly better boyz for a tiny amount more. One of the biggest down sides to boyz is that even at T5 they aren't durable because of the 6+ save, but kommandos can hang out in cover and enjoy a 3+ save And the pure agony an opponent has trying to shift a cheap T5 3+ save model is just the best thing in the world.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:
Thinking about a tournament list with 3-4 Scrapjets, 5 Squigbuggies, 2 Squigbosses, 1 Wartrike, 1 Mek, 2 x 5 Stormboys and 2 x 5 Kommandos, 10 gretchin plus two Killrigs.

Wanna go for Blood Axe Buggies, Death Skulls Stormboys / Kommandos and auxiliary Mozrog.
Would you rather take the Rigs as BA for flexibility or as DS for the rerolls or go for one each?

Also I think Deathkilla Wartrike as Warlord for the Speedwaaagh, or should I try to go for a regular Waaagh and make 1 Squigboss Warlord?

Why Mozrog as an aux? You are essentially paying 1 CP to skip troops and lose his culture. I would either re-arrange your army into two outriders and pay 2 more CP or get a second unit of gretchin.to keep the culture.

I'm not sure anything would want/be able to lock a killrig in combat, plus the DS trait also provides protection against perils.

Well I thought that first SB Trait would not matter anyway but yeah, that +1 to wound might be worth taking another unit of gretchin.
But for 3 Squigbosses / 2 Squigbosses + 1 Trike I need 3 detachments - so I thought Mozrog with his natural 4++ plus souped up Squig is worth it even without trait. Alternative would be a second no name Squigboss with some more gear. (Cheaper but more CP)
But if I skip the 4th Scrapjet, I have 90 points left for 10 more gretchin and some Custom jobs on Trike and Killrig(s).

Good catch btw on the 5+++ on Peril MWs - missed that but would not have been relevant so far.
I really hope the upcoming killrig nerf is just an increase in points, I can live with something like 220-250 but not some mayor profile edits.

But honestly, now that Squiggbosses are available, do we really want to not take 3 of them? (Including Bike Warboss / Trike)

 Grotrebel wrote:

But honestly, now that Squiggbosses are available, do we really want to not take 3 of them? (Including Bike Warboss / Trike)

Obviously the wartrike is there as a buffing/supporting character in buggy lists. He provides smoke cloud cover with his decently sized base, speed Waaagh, high movement and is reasonably bulky out of the box with what is in essence a buggy profile with an invuln save. Treat them like a buggy that wants to be near the action to boost the others, but only moving in for the kill when you know you're going to kill what you charge or be locked into a favourable combat.

I use my Bikerboss as the tip of the spear. Big threat range, allows buggies and bikes to get in a strong alpha charge, hits pretty darn hard with the Killa Klaw and Brutal but Kunning. He allows the scrapjets and bikes to move in to get melee kills after shooting and himself into whatever my opponent has that I really just need dead. The Bikerboss is wholly expendable in my list as long as he kills something beefy and gets the bikes/buggies where they need to be.

Lastly, I use a bulky set up on my Squigboss. Between Ard as Nails and Beasthide Mantle, he's an absolute brick. He also still hits really hard, but trades speed for the aforementioned bulk. In my opinion, a Squigboss is for either grinding through blocks of bulky infantry with all those attacks and potential mortal wounds, or for sticking in front of something you don't want chewing through your other units and bogging it down.

They all have fairly similar stats, but they each have a slightly different role. All three of them can be built to be the bulky one, the killy one, and the supporting one with the right relics/traits, and with the right list.

This is all my opinion based on my experiences though, so take with as much salt as you'd like!

I'm on the same page as Afrodactyl - wartrike for speedwaaagh! and sniping weakened units, killa klaw biker boss as homing missile to destroy whatever needs to be gone and squigboss set up as brawler/tank that can fight multiple fights without getting downed.

SemperMortis wrote:
Math Hammer Time. If you are Goff and take 15 kommandos, (14 and PK nob) you get 56 attacks on a WAAAGH turn from the boyz at S5 Ap-1 That works out to 46.6 hits (remember, goff, exploding 6s) if you use the Distraction grot against a T8 3+ vehicle you end up doing..... 11.6dmg from just the boyz. The PK Nob swings at 4 attacks on PK for 3.3 hits, he is wounding on 2s so 2.77 wounds and against a 3+ its 4.6ish dmg total. so you end up doing 16ish dmg from a 15 strong Kommandos unit against T8 3+, and that is without a breacha ram and without the Bomb squig or Tankbusta Strat.

Personally, I prefer 10 to minimize Morale/Blast rules but if you want to run the extra models that is fine as well But yeah, the main point I am making is that they are absolute beat sticks in CC. They are just significantly better boyz for a tiny amount more. One of the biggest down sides to boyz is that even at T5 they aren't durable because of the 6+ save, but kommandos can hang out in cover and enjoy a 3+ save And the pure agony an opponent has trying to shift a cheap T5 3+ save model is just the best thing in the world.

I guess there are two roles there; alpha strike or tarpit. By a cursory look I´d say tarpit is the better bet as this´ll apply more often. If those 120 points takes some bullets and complete an Orktarius that´s enough for the investment imho.

Playing the BA bouncing buggie list myself and the kommando layer is a neat delaying action to tick Primaries et al. Snikrot has been a decent addition to this vanguard for me. He´s both a tarpit and an alpha striker that cannot be ignored.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm on the same page as Afrodactyl - wartrike for speedwaaagh! and sniping weakened units, killa klaw biker boss as homing missile to destroy whatever needs to be gone and squigboss set up as brawler/tank that can fight multiple fights without getting downed.

Squigboss is also the only one, who has a chance to pass Da Biggest and Da Best which is one of two secondaries (with To The Last), that can be selected like the third one if other options fails…

Yeah the Wartrike is excellent for popping Cloud of Smoke if you run a lot of Scrapjets and Warbikers.
If you go for Squigbuggies only the Biker Boss is the better option.

After those two bosses 1 or 2 more Squigbosses are a safe bet in any kind of list imo.

Wartrike + 2 Squigbosses (one tanky & one killy) has been my favourite combination so far.

What works well with Evil Sunz? I was considering taking an ES patrol to get a beastboss with rezmekkas redder paint, but is there anything else? Are there any units that benefit more from ES than the from the other kulturs (specifically Goff, Blood Axe and Death Skullz). I thought about bringing a 4-klaw dread and simply advancing it up the board. Not great, but not awfull either.

pismakron wrote:
What works well with Evil Sunz? I was considering taking an ES patrol to get a beastboss with rezmekkas redder paint, but is there anything else? Are there any units that benefit more from ES than the from the other kulturs (specifically Goff, Blood Axe and Death Skullz). I thought about bringing a 4-klaw dread and simply advancing it up the board. Not great, but not awfull either.

I played Deffkoptas a few times to keep them safe with Drive by Dakka - worked well and it's one of our good strats that cost only 1 CP.
Sadly ES overall is one of our worst clans right now, besides the relic there is not much of a reason to take them. Loosing that +1 to charge killed them in combination with most of our assault weapons becoming heavy or dakka weapons.

Only unit that profits from the shooting assault weapons after advancing is the Dragsta, but its still better as DS on average.
All other assault weapons are on units that don't advance anyway (Tellyport Blastajet, Squigbuggies) or have so bad shooting that the buff does not matter at all.

The extra movement is not worth it on any unit if you compare it to the buffs our other clans provide.
You might use it for some kind of footslogging list that wants to clog up the midfield a little faster but honestly,
just do it if you really like red and want to play non-competetive games.

I’m just using the warboss on bike now… (with killaklaw and ard as nails) if the only reason to take the wartrike is the cloud of smoke strat then a unit of multiple scrapjets has a much bigger footprint.

Goff Beastboss w BBK and beasthide is still durable with a ton of str 8 attacks that has a decent chance of connecting with BBK.

And now adding a nob on smashasquig w killchoppa relic as it’s also a decent melee character missle protected by 3-6 squigriders.

 Grotrebel wrote:

pismakron wrote:
What works well with Evil Sunz? I was considering taking an ES patrol to get a beastboss with rezmekkas redder paint, but is there anything else? Are there any units that benefit more from ES than the from the other kulturs (specifically Goff, Blood Axe and Death Skullz). I thought about bringing a 4-klaw dread and simply advancing it up the board. Not great, but not awfull either.

Loosing that +1 to charge killed them in combination with most of our assault weapons becoming heavy or dakka weapons.

We barely would have cared about the weapon profile change since anyone running a Speedwaaagh! gets the same effect for the most relevant turn. The overlap between Speedwaaagh! and Evil Sunz is one of my big annoyances with this book.

pismakron wrote:
What works well with Evil Sunz? I was considering taking an ES patrol to get a beastboss with rezmekkas redder paint, but is there anything else? Are there any units that benefit more from ES than the from the other kulturs (specifically Goff, Blood Axe and Death Skullz). I thought about bringing a 4-klaw dread and simply advancing it up the board. Not great, but not awfull either.

Regular waagh + ESunz sguig riders (3*4 or 3*5) is great, the threat range is huge. Of course, beastboss with +2 movement and fight last goes along with them. Morale is an issue with sguig riders, to the extent that perhaps the generic +1 CD 6 inch aura is worth considering.

The shoot move shoot strat is good but for vehicules i think other klans are better so...

Interesting [url=https://nightsatthegametable.com/the-alliance-open-warhammer-40k-winning-lists/]list[/] placing third at a local GT. But do the hit modifiers for the kannonwagon and Freebootaz really stack to a +3?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Interesting [url=https://nightsatthegametable.com/the-alliance-open-warhammer-40k-winning-lists/]list[/] placing third at a local GT. But do the hit modifiers for the kannonwagon and Freebootaz really stack to a +3?

Definitely not!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having some BS 4+ heavy weapons like MekGuns or Kannonwagons to trigger Freebota trait seems to be common.

Has there not been a point update on FW units Big Shootas? Cause he played 2 x 3 big shootas and still paid only 170 each.
I´ve been paying those extra points all the time because i thought it´s not intended for them to be free.

They stack, but no matter how high you stack them, a roll cannot ever be modified by more than +-1. The important part is that you get to negate negative modifiers like stratagems or forests with them which have a huge impact on ork shooting.