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2021/10/02 12:14:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Thank you, that’s very clear.
I saw his initial list which was mainly infantry and we agreed on a battalion detachment so yeah, I was kind of disappointed to turn up and face a vanguard detachment of heavy armour. I just wanted to experiment and learn but he clearly just wanted to smash me.
So I don’t object to buying new models but the next game will be a 500pt patrol so I’m hoping to whittle my 1000pt list down to 500 whilst focussing on AP against marines. I would like a more flexible list in case he pulls a switch on me and I end up facing 500pts of drukhari (he also has drukhari models) or something stupid.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/02 13:03:37
2021/10/02 13:33:17
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Heading into another Smaller local tournament today. Going to be running my favored Ork Alpha Strike list featuring 3 units of trukk boyz, 3 units of Kommandos, 3 units of Stormboyz, 2 units of DeffKoptas and Mek gunz to back them all up by sitting on objectives and plinking wounds on important things. So far this list is 9 and 0, including 3 games where I went 2nd. The main point is to forward deploy kommandos into cover to draw fire and on turn 1 slam head first into their lines and utterly destroy as much as possible. Turn 2, when your opponent thinks your army is out of surprises, 3 warbosses pop out of their Trukkz and start wrecking anything that survived turn 1.
Last tournament I ran into a really smart Ad Mech player who used his infantry as a speed bump to protect his chickenwalkers. On his turn he prioritized killing the Kommandos and was able to dispatch most of them, but he left some alive as well as the trukkboyz mostly unmolested and the trukkz as well. Turn two he was unprepared for the warbosses to hop out and lay the smackdown on his unsuspecting chickenwalkers and other heavier units.
So far the list hasn't lost, i'll let you guys know how it does today Wish me luck.
My concerns are do the warbikers have enough punch to do damage against marines and is the trukk just a waste of points? Would I be better off with a 4 claw dread and if I need to, buy a Mek gun for punch on the back line?
Also I may try out as goffs.
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: And if tanks arrive maybe this.
I am going have ladders match tomorrow! Expect to play against person who played 5 games… Imperial Knight ( he not yet play it), Dark Angel (he lost twice with it) or Aeldari ( 1 majority victory and 2 minor victories.)
Since it’s going be my second game and he go for 2,000 match size So I went with this list… still have 200 pts to spare. Feedback?
pretty sure your going to have issues to position the dread, consider piston upgrade, dread moves 6 so giving it the custom job even if you tely is worth it
Boyz [5 PL, 100pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa: 9x Choppa, 9x Slugga, 9x Stikkbombs
keep in mind that boys are mainly tar pit units, they don't exactly kill anything, you would be better off giving the truck boy to the warboss so he can rush to the fight and use the boys to take objectives. Just my opinion
After reading how describe your opponent, he feels like a bad player sportsmanship wise. There is no enjoyment in stomping noobs.. I would skip playing with him, and go for a more reasonable opponent that takes in account your lack of experience. Friend or no Friend he is being scummy just for wining, and deserves to be benched.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Solidcrash wrote: I am going have ladders match tomorrow! Expect to play against person who played 5 games… Imperial Knight ( he not yet play it), Dark Angel (he lost twice with it) or Aeldari ( 1 majority victory and 2 minor victories.)
Since it’s going be my second game and he go for 2,000 match size So I went with this list… still have 200 pts to spare. Feedback?
Orks Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment ( 6CP - 675PT )
LORD OF WAR Stompa (675)
Total Command Points: 6/15
Reinforcement Points: 205
Total Points: 1795/2000
Claws on the boys if you really want them? Consider truckboys for the burna boys and a truck. You lack shooting maybe buggies or mek guns? . take my opinion with a grain , it's just an opinion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/03 01:06:56
2021/10/03 05:59:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
My concerns are do the warbikers have enough punch to do damage against marines and is the trukk just a waste of points? Would I be better off with a 4 claw dread and if I need to, buy a Mek gun for punch on the back line?
Also I may try out as goffs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And if tanks arrive maybe this.
If I have the mek gun I decide what loadout I put on it depending on what I’m facing. If the storm talon turns up probably tractor, otherwise KMK.
Lists in spoilers please.
I prefer the second list, but I personally would drop the klaw on the boys, use the points to change the smasha squig to three more squighogs (assuming you have the models), and switch the kustom job on the dread to pistons.
2021/10/03 06:12:33
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Thanks, the plan with the Trukk was to put the boyz in there and the warboss. The boyz being trukkboyz could jump out after the trukk moved and take objectives or strategic positions. Then I could disembark the warboss next turn or move the Trukk again.
I’ll definitely take your advice on the warboss trait/relics.
With the dread I would only use the dread if I could tellyporta it in.
My concerns are do the warbikers have enough punch to do damage against marines and is the trukk just a waste of points? Would I be better off with a 4 claw dread and if I need to, buy a Mek gun for punch on the back line?
Also I may try out as goffs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And if tanks arrive maybe this.
If I have the mek gun I decide what loadout I put on it depending on what I’m facing. If the storm talon turns up probably tractor, otherwise KMK.
Lists in spoilers please.
I prefer the second list, but I personally would drop the klaw on the boys, use the points to change the smasha squig to three more squighogs (assuming you have the models), and switch the kustom job on the dread to pistons.
Sorry, How do I do lists in spoilers?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/03 06:14:15
2021/10/03 07:19:03
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
DoktaRoksta wrote: Thanks, the plan with the Trukk was to put the boyz in there and the warboss. The boyz being trukkboyz could jump out after the trukk moved and take objectives or strategic positions. Then I could disembark the warboss next turn or move the Trukk again.
I’ll definitely take your advice on the warboss trait/relics.
With the dread I would only use the dread if I could tellyporta it in.
My concerns are do the warbikers have enough punch to do damage against marines and is the trukk just a waste of points? Would I be better off with a 4 claw dread and if I need to, buy a Mek gun for punch on the back line?
Also I may try out as goffs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And if tanks arrive maybe this.
If I have the mek gun I decide what loadout I put on it depending on what I’m facing. If the storm talon turns up probably tractor, otherwise KMK.
Lists in spoilers please.
I prefer the second list, but I personally would drop the klaw on the boys, use the points to change the smasha squig to three more squighogs (assuming you have the models), and switch the kustom job on the dread to pistons.
Sorry, How do I do lists in spoilers?
If you edit the message, there's a button at the top that says "spoiler". Press it at the start of the list and again at the end and it should spoiler the message. If not, type [.spoiler] at the start and [./spoiler] at the end to do the same (get rid of the full stops though, otherwise it won't work).
2021/10/03 07:49:05
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Solidcrash wrote: I am going have ladders match tomorrow! Expect to play against person who played 5 games… Imperial Knight ( he not yet play it), Dark Angel (he lost twice with it) or Aeldari ( 1 majority victory and 2 minor victories.)
Since it’s going be my second game and he go for 2,000 match size So I went with this list… still have 200 pts to spare. Feedback?
Orks Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment ( 6CP - 675PT )
LORD OF WAR Stompa (675)
Total Command Points: 6/15
Reinforcement Points: 205
Total Points: 1795/2000
Claws on the boys if you really want them? Consider truckboys for the burna boys and a truck. You lack shooting maybe buggies or mek guns? . take my opinion with a grain , it's just an opinion.
Heh. I am thinking about that. Claw on Boyz is good idea if I face Knight or characters/vehicles.
I don’t have any Buggies or Mek guns yet but I can create some. I am building Trukk out of spurs at moment.
I have lack of shooting.. yeah one Deffkopta is not enough as it will kill one units a turn. Too slow..
2021/10/03 08:59:15
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
DoktaRoksta wrote: Thanks, the plan with the Trukk was to put the boyz in there and the warboss. The boyz being trukkboyz could jump out after the trukk moved and take objectives or strategic positions. Then I could disembark the warboss next turn or move the Trukk again.
I’ll definitely take your advice on the warboss trait/relics.
With the dread I would only use the dread if I could tellyporta it in.
My concerns are do the warbikers have enough punch to do damage against marines and is the trukk just a waste of points? Would I be better off with a 4 claw dread and if I need to, buy a Mek gun for punch on the back line?
Also I may try out as goffs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And if tanks arrive maybe this.
If I have the mek gun I decide what loadout I put on it depending on what I’m facing. If the storm talon turns up probably tractor, otherwise KMK.
Lists in spoilers please.
I prefer the second list, but I personally would drop the klaw on the boys, use the points to change the smasha squig to three more squighogs (assuming you have the models), and switch the kustom job on the dread to pistons.
Sorry, How do I do lists in spoilers?
If you edit the message, there's a button at the top that says "spoiler". Press it at the start of the list and again at the end and it should spoiler the message. If not, type [.spoiler] at the start and [./spoiler] at the end to do the same (get rid of the full stops though, otherwise it won't work).
Ty Done
2021/10/03 09:11:33
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: Heading into another Smaller local tournament today. Going to be running my favored Ork Alpha Strike list featuring 3 units of trukk boyz, 3 units of Kommandos, 3 units of Stormboyz, 2 units of DeffKoptas and Mek gunz to back them all up by sitting on objectives and plinking wounds on important things. So far this list is 9 and 0, including 3 games where I went 2nd. The main point is to forward deploy kommandos into cover to draw fire and on turn 1 slam head first into their lines and utterly destroy as much as possible. Turn 2, when your opponent thinks your army is out of surprises, 3 warbosses pop out of their Trukkz and start wrecking anything that survived turn 1.
Last tournament I ran into a really smart Ad Mech player who used his infantry as a speed bump to protect his chickenwalkers. On his turn he prioritized killing the Kommandos and was able to dispatch most of them, but he left some alive as well as the trukkboyz mostly unmolested and the trukkz as well. Turn two he was unprepared for the warbosses to hop out and lay the smackdown on his unsuspecting chickenwalkers and other heavier units.
So far the list hasn't lost, i'll let you guys know how it does today Wish me luck.
I like it! Not only because it is a clever way to play orks. Simple as hammer and nails.
I wish you luck, win!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just few notes
- last detach, you have the second Big Boss strategem selected and not used….
- warbosses - once kombi skorcha and once kombi rocket? Because of the models you have?
- 4 smashaguns and 2 KMK. Why? Range?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/03 10:39:55
Sempermortis, you have too many Mek Gunz units and rule of 3 is broken. Note that they're all Mek Gunz, regardless of what weapons are equipped with. Also, take lone KMKs and squadron the smashas as the former are more valuable and have shorter range.
2021/10/03 12:07:20
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Blackie wrote: Sempermortis, you have too many Mek Gunz units and rule of 3 is broken. Note that they're all Mek Gunz, regardless of what weapons are equipped with. Also, take lone KMKs and squadron the smashas as the former are more valuable and have shorter range.
Apologies to you both. I had my actual list built on my phone and put that together on the computer but didn't modify all the parameters correctly. It was 3 units of Mek gunz (All KMK) in 2 units of 2 and 1 unit of 1. Yes morale is an issue for the 2 larger squads but so far none of my opponents have wanted to chance them surviving...and they draw an incredible amount of firepower.
Both regular warbosses were Kombi-Skorchas and the other warlord trait was Might Is Right.
Tournament turned out to be smaller than I anticipated, only 16 player, but I was able to pull out a 1st Place finish with my Alpha striking Orkz, going a perfect 3 and 0.
First Match up was vs a very optimistic Tau Player. He went first and proceeded to blow up all 5 mek gunz and then used all his small arms to overkill all my Kommandos....or that is what he thought he was going to do, after a full round of shooting at them he had only managed to kill 5 out of 30. The Tau player dramatically over-estimated both the potential and durability of those Mek Gunz and dramatically under-estimated how hard it would be to shift T5 models with 3+ saves. On my turn all 3 Kommando units got stuck in, all 3 trukk boyz got stuck in and my Deff Koptas were able to pull off a full Gun run AND charge into vulnerable units. Game went to turn 3 but by the end of turn 2 it was mopping up operations, I lost mek gunz and bits from other units but that was it.
Game 2 was facing off against an Imperial Guard player, it was a rinse and repeat of game 1, heavily overkilled Mek Gunz and under killing trukkz/kommandos to his own detriment. Turn 1 I had all of his vehicles except 1 tied up in CC or dead. Turn 2 warbosses got out and finished off any vehicles my trukk boyz were having problems with. Turn 3 game was over and I maxed out.
Game 3 was the final game against a Thousand sons player. This was a lot closer of a game. He runs a melee screening force to protect his casters, This was also the only game where my mek Gunz didn't die, mostly due to the fact that he had zero ranged firepower. My Mek gunz earned their keep, killing a Vortex beast turn 1 which blew up and damaged some of his own army. The Koptas rained death upon a squad of thousand sons, killing 5, sadly, due to the melee screen I was unable to get stuck in with the scary casters turn 1. On his turn his psychic shenanigans did work. All his spells killed an entire unit of deff Koptas, blew up a trukk and buffed his guys to be extra durable/deadly including a demon prince. He bum rushed my now exposed Warboss and .....wiffed. That battle went on for 2 full rounds before the Warboss came out on top, the half dmg definitely saved his life.
So, things I learned, Koptas are hit or miss with their Dakka, but in CC they are absolute destroyer of worlds. A 150pt Unit of Koptas on a WAAAGH turn gets 27 S6 (Goff) attacks, With a warboss nearby, which in my list is most of the time, that is 27 hits on average (exploding 6s for Goffs). Kommandos are unbelievably durable for their points cost and are not only a distraction carnifex (Forward deployed so need to be dealt with) but are also an alpha strike threat and can do incredible amounts of dmg when ignored. In my first game a unit of Kommandos 1 shot a Broadside AND a firewarrior squad with overkill.
Trukk Boyz are depressingly average. They are a great turn 1 alpha strike threat, but they are still just boyz, and at the cost of their Kulture, they don't do nearly as much as they need to. The only reason they function in my list is because the Warboss is also in the trukk with them and on the 2nd turn he hops out and cleans up anything they were struggling with, while the deff Koptas and Kommandos don't need to be babysat.
Stormboyz....yes. They are just slightly better trukk boyz. I lost a handful of models to auto-advancing 6, and except against that thousand sons player, they were getting stuck in 1st turn against solid targets. And because they keep their kulture, on a WAAAAGH turn they each get 4 S5 attacks which explode on 6s. 9 Stormboyz average 30 hits at S5.
Final thoughts, Mek Gunz are meh, but when they connect are devastating and thanks to this they draw more than their fair share of dakka. They are GREAT backfield distraction carnifexes. More than 1 opponent dedicated way too much firepower to killing them then he should have, which left my Trukkz unmolested and able to deliver their cargo on turns where I didn't go first. ....Actually....thinking about it....I went last in all 3 games Warbosses were devastating melee beat sticks like they were always meant to be And last thought. WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!
Good job, especially winning three in a row while going last in all of them.
Do you think the distraction grot on the kommadoz was worth it? I'm kind of split on that one, since its 10 points on a unit that often dies before moving.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/03 12:37:56
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2021/10/03 14:36:29
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
How are you positioning the Mek Gunz? I would think it would be difficult to have them screen your backfield, sit on objectives and be a credible threat that draws fire away from other things. Do you just position them to do damage and call it good?
2021/10/03 23:12:50
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: Good job, especially winning three in a row while going last in all of them.
Do you think the distraction grot on the kommadoz was worth it? I'm kind of split on that one, since its 10 points on a unit that often dies before moving.
Honestly I am torn as well. Its useful like 20-30% of the time so far for me. In most situations its either not needed or as you said they die before using it. I was able to squeeze a test game in with a friend today. All 3 units of Kommandos failed to use it, one was wiped turn 1 so it didn't even get a chance to use its bomb squig, the other 2 were either in cover already when they got attacked or died before using it. The thing is....its 30pts. I could instead give my 3 trukk boyz units PKs but other than that, I can't think of a good use for those points.
discopuma wrote: How are you positioning the Mek Gunz? I would think it would be difficult to have them screen your backfield, sit on objectives and be a credible threat that draws fire away from other things. Do you just position them to do damage and call it good?
I generally position them in cover near an objective. They are 45pts and are T5 with 6 wounds. They aren't hard to remove, but they aren't easy either. The best part about them is Ramshackle which means your opponent can't just plink them with random S5-7 D2 weapons as rare as those are
Speaking of Goff shooting, in my quest to find a competitive dreadmob list, I confirm that the combination of a Goff Morkanaut with Mek Boss Buzzbog is really good (as he gives +1 to hit to a Goff walker unit each turn).
It's like the morkanaut with sparkling bits in the previous codex, but better, as the rokkit are now 2D3 attacks, and the bigshoota 20/12 attacks. (In speedwaagh turn, it shot and wiped a unit of custodes, with a bit of help of a small squad of kans)
2021/10/04 05:21:10
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yeah fighting a Tau and a Guard player with that list was a pretty good matchup for you. Theyre both pretty weak to turn 1 alpha strikes, even when they go first That said it gives good hope to this idea of bigger kommando mobs as guard at least still has some strong shooting and should have been able to deal with kommandos to some degree.
Surprised you werent running any buggies but it seems like you had the same basic roles covered between the mek guns and koptas. Im looking to try some koptas in my list as well, just not sure where Im going to get more since I dont feel like buying more starters. Nice to see the mek guns did well too. Im planning on running kannonwagons as I already have those but have been tempted to sprinkle mek gunz in alongside the kannonwagons, they seem to definitely be worth it. 45pts for a weapon like that is pretty good and is honestly probably better than just a 10 strong grot unit for sitting in the back on an objective.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2021/10/04 08:21:50
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Have you considered adding some bikers to your list? As goffs, on the charge, during a waagh round, 150 points of warbikers strikes with 24 S5, AP-1 attacks, almost as good as the deffkopters. And bikes can advance and charge during a waag because they are core, deffkopters are not. And unlike deffkopters or stormboyz, warbikers are somewhat durable. or A single trukkboyz unit could become a 6-biker unit with a pk. Every ork pays the CP tax to not bring troops this edition, you might as well. Just a thought.
2021/10/04 10:03:31
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
MrMoustaffa wrote: Yeah fighting a Tau and a Guard player with that list was a pretty good matchup for you. Theyre both pretty weak to turn 1 alpha strikes, even when they go first That said it gives good hope to this idea of bigger kommando mobs as guard at least still has some strong shooting and should have been able to deal with kommandos to some degree.
Surprised you werent running any buggies but it seems like you had the same basic roles covered between the mek guns and koptas. Im looking to try some koptas in my list as well, just not sure where Im going to get more since I dont feel like buying more starters. Nice to see the mek guns did well too. Im planning on running kannonwagons as I already have those but have been tempted to sprinkle mek gunz in alongside the kannonwagons, they seem to definitely be worth it. 45pts for a weapon like that is pretty good and is honestly probably better than just a 10 strong grot unit for sitting in the back on an objective.
GG Semper Mortis! Nice to see an ork player winning while 1. going second all 3 games, 2. not playing the clutch units (I personally use the clutch units a lot hah hah, makes it easier and doesn't exhaust my brain as much)
TS: I will play a TS guy in my tournament group friday, I may ask you for some advice prior or after the game. Did your opponent also play the large temi blob with 50 strengh 5 stormbolter shots ? Your list can neutralize them by hiding the infantry turn 1 I think, more than my list can... BTW, in general, did you manage to hide well enough turn 1 in all your 3 games ?
IG Imperial guard is a really outdated codex from what i gather (storm troopers do have play though, not against orks though), so an ork player with your skill would have no issue obliterating them, so not much to say here I think.
Tau As for Tau...The right way to play Tau (unless you are ziegler) currently is the 3*3 broadside build (missile or rail rifle, but their SMS is where where they really shine), with the custorm trait giving -1 ap to missiles. Those 72 (or 80) smart missile systems decimate all kommandos turn 1. You would have had a much harder time (euphemism here, I really think conceded turn 2) against my Tau friend's list, as you went second on all your games.
I know this because I have seen him decimate a sister army with the argent shroud (or whatever the name) trait, the one making ap1 become ap 0, and ap2 become ap1. Such a sister army is a lot tankier (a lot less alpha striky too though).
Your list ork could maybe counter that Tau list if you went first though (emphasis on "maybe", I don't really think so, but maybe).
Tau really lack players with a comp mindset. That broadside list is very easy to play, it requires only the most basic skills to cap objectives with a few troops, and "screen/block opponent in his deploy zone turn 1" with kroot hounds. For the life of me, why oh why are so few players running it ??!!! All it requires is the investment in 9 broadsides, but surely any Tau player have at least half of that already. So much missed opportunity here.
It will never cease to amaze me. It was true in 6th edition, true in 7th, a little less true in 8th thanks to siegler giving ideas to some players, but 9th sure sees its fair share of sub optimal Tau army lists...
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/10/04 10:12:14
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2021/10/04 18:46:51
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Have you considered adding some bikers to your list? As goffs, on the charge, during a waagh round, 150 points of warbikers strikes with 24 S5, AP-1 attacks, almost as good as the deffkopters. And bikes can advance and charge during a waag because they are core, deffkopters are not. And unlike deffkopters or stormboyz, warbikers are somewhat durable. or A single trukkboyz unit could become a 6-biker unit with a pk. Every ork pays the CP tax to not bring troops this edition, you might as well. Just a thought.
Honestly, I am thinking about switching out the Stormboyz for the Bikers for that exact reason. The downside is that they are more than twice as expensive and are literally just boyz on a bike, so while yeah, they are significantly more durable, they don't put out much dmg and they are a juicier target for my opponent to put his multi-dmg S7 and below weapons since they don't have ramshackle like the Deff Koptas. With all that said, I might sacrifice a trukk boyz unit in order to re-align my last detachment with Warbikes instead of other things.
GG Semper Mortis! Nice to see an ork player winning while 1. going second all 3 games, 2. not playing the clutch units (I personally use the clutch units a lot hah hah, makes it easier and doesn't exhaust my brain as much)
TS: I will play a TS guy in my tournament group friday, I may ask you for some advice prior or after the game. Did your opponent also play the large temi blob with 50 strengh 5 stormbolter shots ? Your list can neutralize them by hiding the infantry turn 1 I think, more than my list can... BTW, in general, did you manage to hide well enough turn 1 in all your 3 games ?
Against TS....you have to kill their psykers as fast as physically possible. The problem is that basically all of them are psykers They can dish out mortal wounds in the psychic phase like you wouldn't believe. Their CC gribblies aren't scary as much as they are annoying. Focus firing down the big tentacle monster if he is in the enemies lines is worth a shot, but after that kill those psykers, it means 1-2 fewer psychic powers going off. It also reduces your opponents cabal points which are deadly to put it nicely.
addnid wrote: Tau As for Tau...The right way to play Tau (unless you are ziegler) currently is the 3*3 broadside build (missile or rail rifle, but their SMS is where where they really shine), with the custorm trait giving -1 ap to missiles. Those 72 (or 80) smart missile systems decimate all kommandos turn 1. You would have had a much harder time (euphemism here, I really think conceded turn 2) against my Tau friend's list, as you went second on all your games.
I know this because I have seen him decimate a sister army with the argent shroud (or whatever the name) trait, the one making ap1 become ap 0, and ap2 become ap1. Such a sister army is a lot tankier (a lot less alpha striky too though).
Your list ork could maybe counter that Tau list if you went first though (emphasis on "maybe", I don't really think so, but maybe).
Tau really lack players with a comp mindset. That broadside list is very easy to play, it requires only the most basic skills to cap objectives with a few troops, and "screen/block opponent in his deploy zone turn 1" with kroot hounds. For the life of me, why oh why are so few players running it ??!!! All it requires is the investment in 9 broadsides, but surely any Tau player have at least half of that already. So much missed opportunity here.
It will never cease to amaze me. It was true in 6th edition, true in 7th, a little less true in 8th thanks to siegler giving ideas to some players, but 9th sure sees its fair share of sub optimal Tau army lists...
Ready for this? This is why Kommandos are so damn good. Lets say 80 S5 AP-1 Missiles, that is 40 hits on average, 20 wounds on average and against Those Kommandos hiding out in cover? that is only 13-14 dmg. A single Broadside is 115pts with that 1 upgrade. 3x3 of them would be 1k points, and they struggle to kill 120pts of Kommandos. That is an unbelievable return on investment as the ork player. Kommandos do not get cover saves from those broadsides, but the Kommandos rule says
while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 2 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.
So they do get +2 armor because they are in cover. that bumps them to 4+, the SMS reduces that to 5+ but still damn good. On top of that, even if the Kommandos were deprived of cover entirely and left in the open with their 6+ save, that is still only enough dakka to kill 1 fulls Kommando mob and most of the 2nd, leaving the 3rd completely unmolested. Again, over 1k points kills 240(ish) in 1 turn, that leaves the trukk boyz, stormboyz and deffkoptas completely unmolested, not to mention the KMKs.
Well I found one thing kommando and buggy spam does not do well against, Belakor with a bunch of slaneeshi daemons. Super fast, cant fall back from several of their units, and overall just an absolute pain to deal with. Got pretty much wiped within 2 turns both games. Granted I went second both times but it was pretty brutal. Not really sure what I could have done different, they were in my deployment turn 1 both times and that was with sending units to take care of my kommandos as well. There was a couple moments of awful luck (such as 6 warbikers, 3 scrapjets, two battlewagons of big shootas and a dakkajets gunfire on speedwaugh failing to kill 30 daemonettes in the open) but it wasnt like every roll was bad.
Best I can tell it was a bad matchup overall. Although I did make a few mistakes, even if I'd played perfectly Im not sure what I couldve done differently. Playing too conservatively in deployment would have just ensured I lost a turn later, but being aggressive also got me in a tight spot. I need to make a few tweaks to my list to be sure, but overall Im not sure what to do against daemons other than maybe just reserve the kommandos as a countercharge and deploy against my backline. Anyone had some games against them and some advice?
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2021/10/05 07:32:57
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Honestly, I am thinking about switching out the Stormboyz for the Bikers for that exact reason. The downside is that they are more than twice as expensive and are literally just boyz on a bike, so while yeah, they are significantly more durable, they don't put out much dmg and they are a juicier target for my opponent to put his multi-dmg S7 and below weapons since they don't have ramshackle like the Deff Koptas. With all that said, I might sacrifice a trukk boyz unit in order to re-align my last detachment with Warbikes instead of other things.
Yeah, I was more thinking about switching out trukkboyz for warbikers. Both have a very long threat range on a waagh-turn for first turn charges, and six boyz with goff-kultur are almost as killy as ten boyz without. The advantage for the bikes, is that if you do not get first turn, they might well be able to shoot AND charge, something neither trukkboyz nor stormboyz can do meaningfully. Stormboyz are a lot more killy, but they are also squishier, their threat range is slightly less, and they have no shooting.
On another note, what do you think about maxing out on kommandos? They are arguably our best unit, so why not bring 45?
2021/10/05 08:05:50
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Ready for this? This is why Kommandos are so damn good. Lets say 80 S5 AP-1 Missiles, that is 40 hits on average, 20 wounds on average and against Those Kommandos hiding out in cover? that is only 13-14 dmg. A single Broadside is 115pts with that 1 upgrade. 3x3 of them would be 1k points, and they struggle to kill 120pts of Kommandos. That is an unbelievable return on investment as the ork player. Kommandos do not get cover saves from those broadsides, but the Kommandos rule says
while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 2 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.
So they do get +2 armor because they are in cover. that bumps them to 4+, the SMS reduces that to 5+ but still damn good. On top of that, even if the Kommandos were deprived of cover entirely and left in the open with their 6+ save, that is still only enough dakka to kill 1 fulls Kommando mob and most of the 2nd, leaving the 3rd completely unmolested. Again, over 1k points kills 240(ish) in 1 turn, that leaves the trukk boyz, stormboyz and deffkoptas completely unmolested, not to mention the KMKs.
Well no, because Smart Missile Systems ignore cover completely. So you have 20 dead, because kommandos have a 6+ save and SMS are AP1. Did your opponent forget that they ignored cover ??? I will be more specific: SMS don't need marker lights to ignore cover, they have it natively (Tau have weird interactions). The kommando +2 save while in cover doesn't work against weapons which deprive their target of any cover saves. On the other hand, I think dense cover works against them for -1 to hit, but of this I am unsure.
If ever the TO allowed your kommandos to have a cover save against the SMS, I would be interested to know.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/10/05 08:10:51
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2021/10/05 08:31:53
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I agree with addnid here. The description for the Smart Missile System says:
This weapon can be fired at units that are not visible to the bearer. Units attacked by this weapon do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.
That implies, that kommandos would have a 6+ save when targeted by Smart Missilie Systems.
2021/10/05 15:34:40
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Honestly, I am thinking about switching out the Stormboyz for the Bikers for that exact reason. The downside is that they are more than twice as expensive and are literally just boyz on a bike, so while yeah, they are significantly more durable, they don't put out much dmg and they are a juicier target for my opponent to put his multi-dmg S7 and below weapons since they don't have ramshackle like the Deff Koptas. With all that said, I might sacrifice a trukk boyz unit in order to re-align my last detachment with Warbikes instead of other things.
Yeah, I was more thinking about switching out trukkboyz for warbikers. Both have a very long threat range on a waagh-turn for first turn charges, and six boyz with goff-kultur are almost as killy as ten boyz without. The advantage for the bikes, is that if you do not get first turn, they might well be able to shoot AND charge, something neither trukkboyz nor stormboyz can do meaningfully. Stormboyz are a lot more killy, but they are also squishier, their threat range is slightly less, and they have no shooting.
On another note, what do you think about maxing out on kommandos? They are arguably our best unit, so why not bring 45?
The biggest reason about not taking 15 Kommandos is Blast and Morale. At 10 your opponent isn't getting max shots instantly and at 10 if I lose enough and fail morale, i'll only lose 1 model on average, at 15 its possibly 2 or more.
pismakron wrote: I agree with addnid here. The description for the Smart Missile System says:
This weapon can be fired at units that are not visible to the bearer. Units attacked by this weapon do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.
That implies, that kommandos would have a 6+ save when targeted by Smart Missilie Systems.
Each time an attack is allocated to a model in this unit while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 2 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.
Probably right honestly, i can see it ruled either way at tournaments. But again, 80 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds. Even cancelling out their 6+ armor save, that is still only 19 dead Kommandos, definitely not 30. And that is assuming no overkill, all within range etc. And yet again, Kommandos are 10ppm, I equip mine with 20pts of extras, so it works out to still over 1k points killing a grand total of 240(ish)pts depending on whether or not the nob fails morale which is highly likely If he does pass, or you spend the CP to have him auto-pass that is 30pts less because the grot/squig and PK can all be on the Nob.
I don't see how it can be ruled in any other way, if one reads what pismakron pasted "Units attacked by this weapon do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover."
It is pretty clear lol
The broadsides still have their main weapon to wipe out what they have in LOS. I really think not many people ever face a competent Tau player hah hah, more power to the (obviously very few) competent Tau players out there, raise hell wherever you go guys everyone thinks you have a trash tier codex hah hah
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/05 16:11:15
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2021/10/05 16:27:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
addnid wrote: I don't see how it can be ruled in any other way, if one reads what pismakron pasted "Units attacked by this weapon do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover."
It is pretty clear lol
The broadsides still have their main weapon to wipe out what they have in LOS. I really think not many people ever face a competent Tau player hah hah, more power to the (obviously very few) competent Tau players out there, raise hell wherever you go guys everyone thinks you have a trash tier codex hah hah
Well, that probably has something to do with how the faction has grown over the years. For all of 6th and 7th they were the easiest/dumbest army to play. Deploy riptides/broadsides and win. Even the strat you suggested is about as straight forward as can be. Ignore cover, shoot at targets in range, GG. Christ, playing against Eldar/Tau players in 7th was probably the funniest thing in the world. Some of these people were convinced to the point of arrogance that they were all amazing generals, running Triptide Wings and Wraithknight/Scat bike spam I'm sure there are some talented Tau Generals out there, but at the moment I haven't met any in competitive games. The closest I've seen to a strategist tau player was a guy in 8th who was running fire warrior spam. It was somewhat inventive if nothing else. You literally could not charge him because the overlapping fire support made it so he could kill 30 boyz just in overwatch.
I wouldn't count out Tau when they get their codex, but as of right now, they are definitely bottom tier.
So, things I learned, Koptas are hit or miss with their Dakka, but in CC they are absolute destroyer of worlds. A 150pt Unit of Koptas on a WAAAGH turn gets 27 S6 (Goff) attacks, With a warboss nearby, which in my list is most of the time, that is 27 hits on average (exploding 6s for Goffs). Kommandos are unbelievably durable for their points cost and are not only a distraction carnifex (Forward deployed so need to be dealt with) but are also an alpha strike threat and can do incredible amounts of dmg when ignored. In my first game a unit of Kommandos 1 shot a Broadside AND a firewarrior squad with overkill.
Just wondering what benefit the warboss gives the deffkoptas? He only gives +1 to core which deffkoptas don't have?
Wish me luck.
maybe buggies or mek guns? . take my opinion with a grain 
, it's just an opinion.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
Warbosses were devastating melee beat sticks like they were always meant to be 
That said it gives good hope to this idea of bigger kommando mobs as guard at least still has some strong shooting and should have been able to deal with kommandos to some degree.
everyone thinks you have a trash tier codex hah hah
