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Fight detecta might help discourage someone dropping in a unit near you to shoot your army, since you charge in before they shoot and tie them up. That plus adding 2 to your charge means depending on where it happens youve got good odds of shutting down a deepstriking or outflanking unit before it even gets to shoot. I think though if its doing its job itll almost never trigger, as its main job would be to protect something like kannonwagons from an enemy unit dropping in and nuking them. So odds are the opponent just drops somewhere else you dont care about and it never procs. Also with your countercharge needing to be core that really limits what you can combo it with.

Problem for me is the relic slot. I already feel like those are at a premium with blood axes, and this is so situational that I dont see it beating out the finkin cap, killa klaw, or other combat relics. It also has the potential for some really weird rules interactions, although I dont think thats going to be super often.

Its definitely nowhere near as good as the spotting strat for one CP. Thats a big help for a blood axe gunline and can have some really powerful uses since youre running kommandos anyways. I can already think of a couple if games where I wouldve used that to good effect. The surrounded one on the other hand doesnt seem super handy. I guess it can come up but I cant think of many instances where it wouldve helped me much.

gungo wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
If we still get kulture bonuses alongside Speed Freak bonuses, then my Deathskulls Kommandos and Stormboys will love the bikes backing them suddenly being ObSec as well.

However the rest of the Speed Mob stuff is either going to have a caveat that it only effects Warbikers/Deffkoptas, or they will nerf the buggies into the ground because they've suddenly made a build people are complaining about even better.

Klan kulturs don’t stack w speedfreak detachment bonus. We don’t know if a specialist mob can be in a speed freak detachment.

I may have to swap detachments for my deffkoptas and bikers then. Time will tell.

Speed King is going to be a big deal though. A Speed King wartrike sat in the backfield with 9 squigbuggies could be problematic for us going forward.

Biggest wishlist would be like, a relic that makes an aura that makes the cover thing for blood axes 9”, or a 1cp strat that just lets you pop cover on a blood axe unit.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
If we still get kulture bonuses alongside Speed Freak bonuses, then my Deathskulls Kommandos and Stormboys will love the bikes backing them suddenly being ObSec as well.

However the rest of the Speed Mob stuff is either going to have a caveat that it only effects Warbikers/Deffkoptas, or they will nerf the buggies into the ground because they've suddenly made a build people are complaining about even better.

Klan kulturs don’t stack w speedfreak detachment bonus. We don’t know if a specialist mob can be in a speed freak detachment.

I may have to swap detachments for my deffkoptas and bikers then. Time will tell.

Speed King is going to be a big deal though. A Speed King wartrike sat in the backfield with 9 squigbuggies could be problematic for us going forward.

I agree and the way speed king works I don’t need my buggies to be in the speedfreak detachment they just need the speedfreak keyword. So I can still get klan buffs and the speedking buff and likely a lot of these speedfreak Strats will work on speed freak units. I am not sure that’s what GW intended but they should have named the detachment differently then the speedfreak keyword.

Technically the way the community article is written you can still take a freebooter speed freak detachment and all the buggies/warbikes will not benefit from freebooter +1 to hit but can like Mek guns trigger the bonus for other units since they are still freebooter klan. I just don’t think there is a major benefit outside of dakkajets to do this…. If you do take a min patrol of hq and warbiker troops speedfreak detachment with maybe Mek guns and dakkajets and keep it klan freebooter. You can still keep the freebooter max potential except for warbikers won’t benefit from +1 to hit. But you can’t take any other speed freak keyword unit without losing its klan kultur for speedfreak detachment bonus. I’m not exactly sure this knocks freebooter down as the main competitive option as that really depends on the rest of the bloodaxe codex options. Spotted them so far is the only decent option shown but there should be a bunch more Strats and traits to go check out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
“ represent the Straight Shoota, a new Blood Axes Relic from War Zone Octarius Book 2: Critical Mass.”

A little more info

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/04/meet-bad-krumpany-the-blood-axe-orks-who-think-the-astra-militarum-has-some-really-great-ideas/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I find it odd we get another kustom shoota relic which only like 3 characters can take warboss on foot, big Mek in mega armor and nob w waaagh banner

Might be a sniper type gun, given the scope he has modeled, similar to the alpha legion sniper combi bolter. Not sure how useful it would actually be unless it gets really good ap or damage 2

 Afrodactyl wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
If we still get kulture bonuses alongside Speed Freak bonuses, then my Deathskulls Kommandos and Stormboys will love the bikes backing them suddenly being ObSec as well.

However the rest of the Speed Mob stuff is either going to have a caveat that it only effects Warbikers/Deffkoptas, or they will nerf the buggies into the ground because they've suddenly made a build people are complaining about even better.

Klan kulturs don’t stack w speedfreak detachment bonus. We don’t know if a specialist mob can be in a speed freak detachment.

I may have to swap detachments for my deffkoptas and bikers then. Time will tell.

Speed King is going to be a big deal though. A Speed King wartrike sat in the backfield with 9 squigbuggies could be problematic for us going forward.

Had to recheck, yeah it's both ranged and melee. Damn that has a lot of potential for silly nonense. Even just 27 bikes in dakka range would get some solid milage out of it first turn.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Might be a sniper type gun, given the scope he has modeled, similar to the alpha legion sniper combi bolter. Not sure how useful it would actually be unless it gets really good ap or damage 2

It sounds like a more accurate gun maybe a pip more range.
If this is reroll to hit Dakka gun with a decent amount of shots then it’s decent and might beat out da shiny shoota for bloodaxe detachment. If it’s another +1 to hit… me and Gw are about to have words :p

Initial thoughts from this.

Blood Axe....Big whopping (unsurprising) FAILURE!

"Got'em Trapped" 2CP to make 2+ units targeting a specific unit act as Goffs....I would rather just take goffs and save the CP. To say this is worthless would be an understatement.

"Spotted em" 1CP to ignore cover on 1 enemy unit that is within 12 of a kommando unit...I mean, not bad, but not all that great either. its meh at best.

"Fight Detecta" useless. Incredibly limiting, requires you to keep Core units near this specific bearer and pray the enemy comes within 12 of them...just absolutely useless. Why would you ever take this?

Here is the bright spot (Sarcastic). Sadly I say bright spot but for me this is beyond idiotic, we have now ventured into the "Orkz are broken" realm. With that said we still don't know the limitations but my brain has already figured out a dozen ways to make orkz broken with the new Speed Freakz Rule. I'll go over a few for fun


"Adrenaline Junkies" Pretty sure this is going to function as a specialist mob. They lose their kulture as we guessed, but can be included without stripping other units kultures. They get +1 attack on the charge, they can advance and shoot as normal, if they advance they get a 5+ Invuln save (Why wouldn't you advance?) With the wording of the unit itself, you can theoretically include this unit in a REGULAR Waaaagh! which means you can get a unit to Move, Advance, Shoot, and charge, AND they would get +2 attacks on that turn with a 5+ invuln in combat. A Massive unit of Warbikers just became Objective Secured AND borderline OP. 25pt model with 20 +2D6 movement, -1 to hit, T5 3 wounds, 4+ armor and a 5+ invuln with 5 attacks each in CC at S4 -1AP.

Next, Speed King. Give this to some rear echelon character and put him near your Squigbuggy artillery park, or hell, any buggies, you just dramatically increased their firepower congrats easy day.

A Squigbuggy goes from averaging 3.1 wounds to a T4 model to 3.6 with its launchas. Or basically a 16-17% increase in lethality. All for the low low cost of losing a fighty or tough warlord trait for your Speedboss. Put him near a couple units of speedfreakz to really watch the stupidity increase. If you can team this with Freeboota kulture....its GG for my Alphork strike, hell, its GG for the game, orkz are now the shootiest army in the game and unarguably broken. Giving them a 16-17% lethality increase to a 12' diameter bubble of the table for basically no cost is going to break them and I'll be honest, i'll have to join in on the calls to nerf Freeboota kulture.

I’m kinda hoping bloodaxe has a bunch more decent Strats, relics, warlord traits

As I agree with you if a speedfreak freebooter army is able to stack these buffs without losing to much (since any speed freak units in a speedfreak detachment will lose freebooter kultur +1 to hit) this will push that list into broken territory.

However if bloodaxe is strong enough I think we will see a lot more bloodaxe/speedfreak dual detachment lists. This will lower the first turn speedwaagh advantage orks have and most are outraged about but still be extremely durable competitive army.. either way I still expect some major point hikes on buggies, dakkajets, killrigs and unfortunately kommandos and warbikers in the future with this campaign book buff rules bloat. Either way we only know partial campaign book info and some of these rules may not have been correct in the community article… such as speedfreak detachment keeping klan keyword.

oh dear god youre right its just attacks....
Thats gonna get nerfed stupid fast. No way they allow us to buff 9+ buggies with reroll 1s to wound, yeesh

1. Speed mob is a Specialists like Trukkboys. So one unite per detach for free. This is my guess.

2. Don' t expect any “balancing”. Book comming out in few weeks had a deadline for the rules in summer imho. Othervise they had no chance to print it, pack it and dont even speek about graphic layout, grammar check.. oh yes and multi-level-corporate-approvement proces. Maybeee end Sept, few weeks after snaga box “releasing” of the codex. No later. So the idea “lets make a Speedfreak spec mob to boost buggies” comes out int the rule developement team no later than last christmas, during planning the whole new codex. Concept of this two books had to be written in the same time.

3. So expect the crazy combos for buggies and than FAQ /Errata for both Codex and this book comming out shortly before christmas. Or maybe after to pimp up the sales little bit. Oh no! Better idea! FAQ / Errata for both books comes out 1 week after comming to the market, so the book you buy will be already FAQed.

4. Honestly, I' m really surprised there are new rules for orks so fast after new codex. Most of the people haven' t even finished the squigbuggies. Not mention the Killrigs.I ' ve expect such a book next Autumn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
oh dear god youre right its just attacks....
Thats gonna get nerfed stupid fast. No way they allow us to buff 9+ buggies with reroll 1s to wound, yeesh

1 week after comming to the market, or mid January when people comes from the Christmas holidays - my guess

It is just so sad that the build no one really wants to play is the one which will benefit most from this supplement.
Walkers, green horde, sguig riders and beastsnaggaz, lootas and tankbustas, the list goes on... But no, they had to buff speed freak units...
GW never ceases to disapoint.

BTW why is everyone "calling" (or predicting) for a nerf on killrigs ? Absolutely 0 Killrigs have been seen in tournament results, to my knowledge.
They prevent us from using the "while we stand" secondary, they have a huge footprint, they are not very tanky, and they don't do much against tough units. I get it that on paper they look "too good" for 190, but surely the comp community thinks further beyond that, no ?

gungo wrote:


A little more info

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/04/meet-bad-krumpany-the-blood-axe-orks-who-think-the-astra-militarum-has-some-really-great-ideas/

Tanks with bases? Heresy .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:


BTW why is everyone "calling" (or predicting) for a nerf on killrigs ? Absolutely 0 Killrigs have been seen in tournament results, to my knowledge.
They prevent us from using the "while we stand" secondary, they have a huge footprint, they are not very tanky, and they don't do much against tough units. I get it that on paper they look "too good" for 190, but surely the comp community thinks further beyond that, no ?

For several months they didn't have an official model's release, maybe that's why we haven't seen them so far.

I agree that people are overreacting towards them though, they have great offensive abilities but they're still tanks that make Assassinate pretty much scary. I prefer a 170 points Forktress Battlewagon to be honest for a plethora of reasons, even if on paper the Killrig is hands down a better unit.

 addnid wrote:
It is just so sad that the build no one really wants to play is the one which will benefit most from this supplement.
Walkers, green horde, sguig riders and beastsnaggaz, lootas and tankbustas, the list goes on... But no, they had to buff speed freak units...
GW never ceases to disapoint.

BTW why is everyone "calling" (or predicting) for a nerf on killrigs ? Absolutely 0 Killrigs have been seen in tournament results, to my knowledge.
They prevent us from using the "while we stand" secondary, they have a huge footprint, they are not very tanky, and they don't do much against tough units. I get it that on paper they look "too good" for 190, but surely the comp community thinks further beyond that, no ?

Because it's pretty fast, pretty durable, has lots of attacks ranging from decent in quality to good, has good psychic powers (the best of which is boosted by its large footprint), and has between 1 and 3 auto hitting lascannons.

When/if buggies and jets are hit with the nerf stick, Killrigs will likely step up to the plate as our heavy lifter.

Blackie, I completely agree with you, but the 170 forktress battlewagon I dunno... Perhaps with the right stuff in it. What infantry does yours carry ?

Afrodactyl perhaps you are right but I think they mess too much with secondaries, and they don't have a good enough invul to withstand melta, dark lances and espcially las chickens. But we will see.

5 meganobz + either 10 boyz/10 gretchins/5 burnaboyz. I don't have any snagga models and they provide a nice back up for the 2 trukk boyz squads and the freeboota shooting stuff. Nothing really OP but I don't play against tournament lists either.

The BW is good/expensive enough to draw away some enemy firepower but I can accept losing it while a ride for my heavy hitters is also welcome. I don't like putting meganobz in trukks as I can't let them join by cheap models to soak up the bad explosion rolls if the vehicle gets wrecked.

I get that probably 3x3 goffs squig riders + squigboss would be a better escort for my freebooters shooting stuff, but I don't have them.

Killing the killrig, which doesn't even had the 5++ of a Forktress, means the opponent scores points by secondaries and 10 snagga models don't really do anything if the vehicle gets wrecked early, they're there only to mess with obj sec once deployed, just like boyz, so killrig's transport capacity isn't really useful.

I see it's a good unit overall, but it needs a list based around it. Never take just one, for starters, or if you take only one reduce the characters to the very necessary minimum. A BW can easily join any vehicles based army without many tweaks instead.

In a hyper competitive list the Killrig has its drawbacks mainly assassinate secondary points.

However in beer and pretzel casual play it’s a complete monster for most people to deal with especially in multiples. If/when buggies get a point boost and if Killrigs don’t the killrig aggressive cost will be shown as killrigs become more common in tournaments. But at the current price of buggies ya it’s better to take 2x buggies then 1x Killrig. The Killrig has more damage potential then a gun/kannon wagon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also for people saying speed freak detachment is going to be like a specialist mob. That is wrong
This is an army of renown.
It’s an entire detachment bonus
Not a single unit klan exchange
In other words every unit in this army of renown is the same klan unlike specialist mobs.
However speedfreak units in this detachment loss thier kultur for a new ability.
How that stacks with specialist mobs
I dunno as neither specialist or army of renown abilities are considered a kultur.
Technically they should stack however community articles don’t usually give all the rules or are not always accurate

It does have a lot of potential for a 190 points model but at the end of the day it's still a battlewagon with no invuln. Anyone can kill it easily, even a pair. 2x3 eradicators alone, or any other pair of average dedicated anti tank units, can kill a pair of killrigs.

Gun/kannon wagon can sit in a corner and avoid attention, killrig must be played aggressively, like a battlewagon.

They might be problematic only in overly competitive lists with lots of other priorities. With 3 dakkajets and a wazbom for example the opponent would be torn, as taking down the flyers would be priority number one but ignoring two killrigs (and failing to remove all the flyers) could be catastrophic. Those 4 flyers and 2 killrigs are less than 1000 points.

But this is not what people expect to face outside very competitive metas, and I don't think killrigs will break the casual scene.

I mean it does have a 6++ invul
And 3+ save, and toughness 8 and ramshackle and 16w with 12in movement
And +1 to any hit vs monster veh
And reroll to hit shooting vs monster veh
Or auto hitting main wpn
And decent psychic powers
Plus 14x melee atks
All of which hits hard

Saying it doesn’t have an invul is incorrect

I threw together a triple kill tank, double kill rig list a while back that's just obnoxious to deal with if you don't have silly amount of AT.

As is ever the case with Orks, if we can't skew one way, we'll skew the other.

True, Gungo, I forgot about the snagga bonus. Still it's easier to kill than a Forktress (exact same stats but with a 5++), which is also 20ppm cheaper. I don't think there are many players that argue that such Forktress is really hard to remove, so why should a killrig be considerable a durable model?

It definitely has a lot of offensive abilities that suits a much more expensive model than a 190 points one, but they don't really matter if up to two models per turn can be shot off the board quite reliably.

Unless as I said earlier the ork list spams multiple armored high priority models. In that case even if two killrigs are removed turn 1 without doing anything they'd have provided a good distraction for the flyers to terrorize the board.

I mean in comparison to our codex the forktress is one of our most durable models (and it requires a 20pt kustom job for that and 15pt ard case upgrade) and the Killrig is still right there with it. (1 less invul)

120+15+20 and I’m assuming your including the 15pt deffrolla so it’s more then just an expensive transport. Again I’m not saying it’s squigbuggy levels of soon to be broken, but it’s almost a forktress with way more offensive potential then a gun/kannon wagon. I think it will likely be more popular once competitively certain buggies go up in price.

i think its more the comparison between wagons and the killrig that make people call nerf on killrig
Theres no contest between the two. Sure the wagon's base cost is way lower....it also has 0 weapons innately. Once you put weapons on it its barely cheaper and noticeably not as deadly as a killrig.
I dont think the killrig itself is broken.

Right now, the only reason i'd use a wagon is a Kannonwagon (a role that the gunwagon attempts to do but fails at) or if i for some reason need more than 12 transport capacity...which since i dont run more than 10 boyz in a squad now...not likely

The 6++ for the killrig is really not going to save it hah hah, not in the cuthroat meta I play in. But I get that in a less comp setting people might get afraid of it.

Anyway I will be trying lists with 2 kill rigs in them for the foreseeable future, theoryhammer won't cut it for that unit (spent perhaps 24 hours assembling and painting all in all i think, GW better not nerf it in a few weeks or I will lose my sheeiiiit). Perhaps the pair of them can draw enough enemy shots to make them worth it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i think its more the comparison between wagons and the killrig that make people call nerf on killrig
Theres no contest between the two. Sure the wagon's base cost is way lower....it also has 0 weapons innately. Once you put weapons on it its barely cheaper and noticeably not as deadly as a killrig.
I dont think the killrig itself is broken.

Right now, the only reason i'd use a wagon is a Kannonwagon (a role that the gunwagon attempts to do but fails at) or if i for some reason need more than 12 transport capacity...which since i dont run more than 10 boyz in a squad now...not likely

20 transport is fine for tricks like 10 grots for causalities and 10 slots for 5 meganobz or something like that….

I’ve played 2 kill rigs in a freebooterz list with the usual suspects.

They’re hard to kill but not that hard. Their damage output is also just kind of ok in my opinion. Real value is just helping to proc the freebooterz trait. Would like to try a melee rush build with them sometime maybe as goffs.

Leak leak leak

Interesting they did start breaking the Strats up into speed freak and speed mob. Not sure the speed mob Strats or kustom jobs still warrant putting your buggies in a speed mob detachment. There is a couple nice ones in there but nothing I see game breaking. It seems to encourage large warbiker mobs for these Strats again not sure that’s a good idea. Overall I give it an egh
Blitza Dakka is ok but then those units need to be in the speedmob
Charrge is ok but 2cp is a lot so you need a large biker mob to warrant its use.

The Goonhammer review is up. https://www.goonhammer.com/warzone-octarius-critical-mass-the-goonhammer-review/

It mentions that Freebooterz is keyed off the Kulture not the Keyword, which isn't the case, but otherwise it's a good overview.

Hopefully the Kulture/keyword thing doesn't become something read and accepted as gospel, which has happened before, for Grot units more than the speed mob. Competitive Streak is weird in that it's obscenely good if speed mob units can trigger it, but horrendously bad if they can't.

Wow full cp refund on outrider detachment that’s speed mob. Limited to buggies bikes wagons and aircraft only.
… I mean the mistake by goonhammer regarding freebooter klan vs kultur keyword is pretty big mistake.

The bloodaxe/deathskull or goff lists are stronger too especially for those triple patrol speedrush trukkboy lists.
I mean the only big negative now to this speed Waagh is it can’t do actions and it has a hard time with fall back and shoot still.

Also nothing in the speedwaagh review saying you can’t double up on specialist and speedmob rules still as neither are considered kulturs. So boomboys specialist deffkoptas seem legit.

Edit: ok it comes to my attention speedmob army of renown is for the entire army NOT just a detachment in which case the army of renown is still good for a warbiker spam buggy list However much less overpowered and much more restrictive if you can’t take anything else in your entire army. It still might be competitive just not freebooter spam overpowered.