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gungo wrote:
First off crashing thru is 6mw on average on deffkoptas NOT 3… that’s the broken part

Second 12in or closer is EXACTLY where KBB want to be with thier 4d6 (lowest roll of 3 w pyromaniac specialist) 8in flamers. OH and they get reroll 1 AND 2.

I don’t think charge is amazing…
And out da sun is twice the points of the ad mech version… I still think it will be faq so you can’t reserve drop and back to reserve same turn though…

Crashing thru - due Morale, you take 3 koptas. It is 3 x 4+ x D3 = 3 MW. Take 6 koptas is theorycraft, not the real gameplan.
Second - reroll of 1 and 2 on HIT for KBB …. For autohitting flamers? Srsly? KBB get the extra rerols of 2 because his very dangerous weapons are autohitting, so it has a “disadventage” in compare to other buggies. Definitely not broken. It could be very good on 3 scrapjets or 5 koptas - but again - morale!


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gungo wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
advancing 9 warbikers, shooting and charging with +1 str and 1 more extra AP does not sound like anything to sneeze at.

they also get an extra atk each in a speedmob.. it makes ork warbikers one of the best units in game for the points.

Ld 7 = kill 4 and you have 50% chance to fail the morale. Sorry, I 'm pretty annoying with the morale issue, but guys, that is the point.


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And yes, you can pay CP for autopass morale, but just for ONE unit in the whole army. So that is not the solution.

Solving the morale with the out o da sun? Not possible. It is “end of your turn”.

I fully plan to take 5 koptas since you can currently reserve turn 1 or hide them. And then you can move, and charge and do 5+ mortal wounds on charge plus 40 atks and then put them back in reserves turn 1 or turn 2 if you start in reserves turn 1… make them boomboys and during a speed Waagh they shoot ap-4 rokkits. Or keep them evil suns bad you can move shoot and move them back into hiding with drive by Dakka.

gungo wrote:
I fully plan to take 5 koptas since you can currently reserve turn 1 or hide them. And then you can move, and charge and do 5+ mortal wounds on charge plus 40 atks and then put them back in reserves turn 1.

Yeah, you can do it, but the plan is built on totaly wrongly written rule, that will be corrected asap - as was corrected for other codexes in before. So if your gameplan is drop and fade, it will not survive the christmas I hope.

The correct plan is drop and kill. That is alright. But you can do it with just one unit via Ramming Speed. Otherwise it is 9” charge, that is hard to pass. And if you do that, you would have a serious trouble keep koptas alive in opponents turn.

If you lost 4 koptas, you have 33% chance to pass the morale. Not so good…. And one Kopta cost 50p


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But Koptas are definitely masters of this list… very strong.


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Btw. There is one more detail. If you keep koptas on the table, you can advance and get them 5++.

But if you drop them, it is just a normal Move and you get just 6++.

 Tomsug wrote:

gungo wrote:
I fully plan to take 5 koptas since you can currently reserve turn 1 or hide them. And then you can move, and charge and do 5+ mortal wounds on charge plus 40 atks and then put them back in reserves turn 1.

Yeah, you can do it, but the plan is built on totaly wrongly written rule, that will be corrected asap - as was corrected for other codexes in before. So if your gameplan is drop and fade, it will not survive the christmas I hope.

The correct plan is drop and kill. That is alright. But you can do it with just one unit via Ramming Speed. Otherwise it is 9” charge, that is hard to pass. And if you do that, you would have a serious trouble keep koptas alive in opponents turn.

If you lost 4 koptas, you have 33% chance to pass the morale. Not so good…. And one Kopta cost 50p


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But Koptas are definitely masters of this list… very strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw. There is one more detail. If you keep koptas on the table, you can advance and get them 5++.

But if you drop them, it is just a normal Move and you get just 6++.

U can start hidden turn 1 as well even if they do fix it… and unless your opponent can hit you without seeing you. You can still use it turn 1…

Here is the secret sauce… if you leave them evil suns…. Even if you drop them this turn.. you can drive by Dakka them to move after you shoot and still get the 5++. So you can hide them, -1 to hit, 5++ invul, and toughness 5, 4+ sv, 4 wounds….few units with out of line of sight shooting can deal with that…

Again use insane bravery on your bike unit if your opponent focus fires them or breakin heads.

gungo wrote:

Here is the secret sauce… if you leave them evil suns…. Even if you drop them this turn.. you can drive by Dakka them to move after you shoot and still get the 5++.

That is clever sauce!

 Tomsug wrote:

gungo wrote:
First off crashing thru is 6mw on average on deffkoptas NOT 3… that’s the broken part

Second 12in or closer is EXACTLY where KBB want to be with thier 4d6 (lowest roll of 3 w pyromaniac specialist) 8in flamers. OH and they get reroll 1 AND 2.

I don’t think charge is amazing…
And out da sun is twice the points of the ad mech version… I still think it will be faq so you can’t reserve drop and back to reserve same turn though…

Crashing thru - due Morale, you take 3 koptas. It is 3 x 4+ x D3 = 3 MW. Take 6 koptas is theorycraft, not the real gameplan.
Second - reroll of 1 and 2 on HIT for KBB …. For autohitting flamers? Srsly? KBB get the extra rerols of 2 because his very dangerous weapons are autohitting, so it has a “disadventage” in compare to other buggies. Definitely not broken. It could be very good on 3 scrapjets or 5 koptas - but again - morale!


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gungo wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
advancing 9 warbikers, shooting and charging with +1 str and 1 more extra AP does not sound like anything to sneeze at.

they also get an extra atk each in a speedmob.. it makes ork warbikers one of the best units in game for the points.

Ld 7 = kill 4 and you have 50% chance to fail the morale. Sorry, I 'm pretty annoying with the morale issue, but guys, that is the point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, you can pay CP for autopass morale, but just for ONE unit in the whole army. So that is not the solution.

Solving the morale with the out o da sun? Not possible. It is “end of your turn”.

sure if you dont get to go first.

But if i ran a speedmob id run 2x 9 warbikers, which, mind you, is not a lot of points for how duable your unit is and how many wounds it is. I doubt id get hit so hard turn 1 that at least not one of them didnt have to take morale.

We're talking about a unit that has innate -1 to hit in ranged combat, that should get hit so hard during turn 1 that i have to take morale. I understand that is probably gonna happen to one group of 9 warbikers, but i highly doubt it will happen to 2. Im not saying it cant happen, im just saying, i dont think it will in general. So odds are, you will at least have 1 group of fresh if not semi fresh warbikers to advance shoot and charge. Even if you dont want to waste 2CP on them thats still great given the advance means they get within dakka range of their guns.

If you dont have to use charge stratagem to get +1 str then you can always use the 2CP to auto pass morale anyway.

Anyway… I was collecting AOBR koptas during last few years and have about 30 of them. Because… well…. No idea… just my guts told me, it' s fine to have more of them, because they looks cool and ahve great conversion potencial for another types of the models.

So, it is a time to paint them. Until now, just one is done and not completely “kopta”

Love that conversion!

 Tomsug wrote:
Anyway… I was collecting AOBR koptas during last few years and have about 30 of them. Because… well…. No idea… just my guts told me, it' s fine to have more of them, because they looks cool and ahve great conversion potencial for another types of the models.

So, it is a time to paint them. Until now, just one is done and not completely “kopta”

You went and made a mecha-shrieker from Tremors 2, that's brilliant.

gungo wrote:


But my problem with charge is 2cp where str +1 only takes a regular non nob warbiker from str5 to str6… which is just an odd point where it rarely makes huge difference..

I disagree, for an anti infantry unit like warbikers S6 instead of S5 is a great buff. Now they're better against T3 and T5, which are both really common. Only T4 targets would be unaffected. I think it's a nice option to have, although 2 CPs are really expensive for that kind of buff, for that price the entire unit should have get the bonus. Highly situational, but not really useless.


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 Tomsug wrote:
Anyway… I was collecting AOBR koptas during last few years and have about 30 of them. Because… well…. No idea… just my guts told me, it' s fine to have more of them, because they looks cool and ahve great conversion potencial for another types of the models.

So, it is a time to paint them. Until now, just one is done and not completely “kopta”

Counts as a Nob/warboss on (meka) squig?

Awesome conversion!

gungo wrote:
First off crashing thru is 6mw on average on 6x deffkoptas NOT 3… that’s the broken part

And out da sun is twice the points of the ad mech version… I still think it will be faq so you can’t reserve drop and back to reserve same turn though… but it’s currently overpowered especially if you are using TO The Last secondary on 4-5x deffkoptas)

Sistas have the 20 pack with storm bolters that do 6 MW when buffed, so does ad mech with wrath of mars. Why on earth do you think crachin thru will get nerfed ? I am totally with you on out da sun though, it will get nerfed like other similar strats 100% (2 cp is becauyse we orks tend to pay more for strats, which compensates for our cheap units i guess, and i prefer cheap units to cheap strats myself heh heh)

Why are peole discussing strengh 6 warbikers ? I don't see how we can get them to strengh 6

 Blackie wrote:

Counts as a Nob/warboss on (meka) squig?

It' s Bigboss on Robosaur. I gonna switch all the dyno/snakebite part of the ork army into the half-ork/half bender mecha-robo style army. Soon… like in next 3 years


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 addnid wrote:

Why are peole discussing strengh 6 warbikers ? I don't see how we can get them to strengh 6

It should be about the Koptas I guess. These have the basic S5.

S5->S6 is definitely good, but depends on opponent. S4->S5 is the same. Also good but depends.

While we are currently facing a meta shake-up from the emergency fix, few of it affects the stuff in the first post. Which means that I need to update it soon.

Since there have been plenty of complaints the last few times around, I will do what I do at work when building software, which is shifting the responsibility to the stakeholders.

So here is a poll for how you rate every unit in the codex: https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/1vzVzaZc

The number of stars maps to the color on the rainbow table, which means:

Five stars - These are great and perform well as long as you include them in a coherent army.
Four stars - These are great in the right army, but they will not work an army that does not support them.
Three stars - These do what they are supposed to do, but aren't the most competitive options for their roles.
Two stars - These do work in general but either cost too much for what they do or lock you out of bringing much better choices.
One star - There is no point in bringing these, fielding them will actively reduce your chances of winning.

I also realized that having ratings for separate parts of clans is not well received, so I will only apply one rating to the whole clan now.

The poll will be running for 14 days, so if you are an ork player, please vote. If you are just an imperial agent with green paint smeared on your face, please don't (ogryns get a free pass).
If enough people vote, I will post the results here and take them into account for the first post's rating table.

I'm also curious whether you think that this is a good way of doing it or not.

Responded in my own limited way

Done.

Done, very well made Jid, congrats

Well done Jidmah. I hope, you finish it also in style so take what investors ask for and implement it on your own way


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Just one note for everybody. You don' t have to rate every unit

 Tomsug wrote:
Well done Jidmah. I hope, you finish it also in style so take what investors ask for and implement it on your own way

Of course, I'm asking for input, not for solutions

Just one note for everybody. You don' t have to rate every unit

Good point. Ratings of 0 will be ignored for the statistics, so if you aren't sure about a unit, just skip it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well done Jidmah. I hope, you finish it also in style so take what investors ask for and implement it on your own way

Of course, I'm asking for input, not for solutions

Just one note for everybody. You don' t have to rate every unit

Good point. Ratings of 0 will be ignored for the statistics, so if you aren't sure about a unit, just skip it.

thats good to know because i havent had a gak ton of games with the new codex.

Beardedragon wrote:

thats good to know because i havent had a gak ton of games with the new codex.

Well, I guess nobody knows all the units. Maybe.. except one creepy guy who tried to persuade me yeasterday that wahapedia and battlescribe are superfluous and our moanig about “wahapedia is the only place, where you can actually see the valid rules” is stupid because if you read the faq, you remember it and you don' t need any up-to-date data. He said, it is just for the lazy people…

Finished! Thanks again Jidmah!

No warboss on bike on the survey I’d rate it same as wartrike.

Funny originally I’d say bloodaxe was worse clan but it’s on par with most clans now w supplement. With freebooter probably being a 5* everyone else 4* with badmoons and snakebites on 3* being extremely situational use.

I think the original post on units is good with only issue is the jump up the big Mek w kff took. Warbikers ranking are justified now w speedmob. The limitations on aircraft and buggies don’t make them any less or more in rankings except shokk jump is probably only good as a single model unit. I think KBB will join scrapjets and squigbuggies as popular choices. Killrigs probably should go up too.

I probably should not have rated grot tanks or grot mega tanks ad I don’t have or play them.


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 addnid wrote:

gungo wrote:
First off crashing thru is 6mw on average on 6x deffkoptas NOT 3… that’s the broken part

And out da sun is twice the points of the ad mech version… I still think it will be faq so you can’t reserve drop and back to reserve same turn though… but it’s currently overpowered especially if you are using TO The Last secondary on 4-5x deffkoptas)

Sistas have the 20 pack with storm bolters that do 6 MW when buffed, so does ad mech with wrath of mars. Why on earth do you think crachin thru will get nerfed ? I am totally with you on out da sun though, it will get nerfed like other similar strats 100% (2 cp is becauyse we orks tend to pay more for strats, which compensates for our cheap units i guess, and i prefer cheap units to cheap strats myself heh heh)

Why are peole discussing strengh 6 warbikers ? I don't see how we can get them to strengh 6

Because crashing thru is cheaper and easier to use. Wrath of mars requires 36 wound rolls to average 6 maximum mortal wounds for at best 2cp for any unit capable of doing it. Crashing thru is NOT capped at 6 mortals either. It averages 6 mortals but can maximum 18 mortal wounds!!! There really is no comparison half the cp cost for a much higher mw chance. I mean if they nerf it by capping it to 6mw and made it 1cp/2cp it would be the same. Honestly I think they forgot deffkoptas are vehicles and speedfreaks…

Also I don’t buy the screw you orks you pay double for the same strat nonsense.

My AoR list

Warboss in bike
3x5 moto

deffkilla

1x3 Squigbuggy
1x3 Scrapjet
1x3 KBB
1x5 Deffkopta

Wazbom
Dakkajet

There's a lot of competitive level in my store, majority of the players are top of the country. I'm not sure if I'll have enough movement with this. Maybe I change the 3 KBB for Dragstas so I do Engage easly. What do you think

Freebooter
Wartrike speedboss, banner - warboss
3x squigbuggies
2x scrapjets
2x kbb (pyromaniac)
1x shokk jump

Dakkajet x2 shootas
Wazbom x2 shootas, kff
(Argument can be made for double wazbom)

Evilsun
Warboss on bike- killaklaw, faster then yoos
9x bikes- nob w bc
5x bikes- nob w bc
5x bikes- nob w bc
5x deffkoptas (boomboys or evilsuns if you want access to drive by Dakka)

8 buggies is incredibly durable but squads of 3 can be hard to maneuver.. except squigbuggies… shokk jump has a hard time with multiple models in unit jumping.
Banner shuts down obj secured so your bikes can steal the objective

I mean every army of renown list is very similar the choices are limited but at least most of them are our best units.. a few more warbikers or buggies is the only real difference. Even clan choice is pretty much useless since the only things you get from clan choice are clan specific warlord traits or relics… and the only unit that cares about kultur are aircraft (wagons are kinda useless w/o infantry to transport)

With AoR, specialist detachment are not allowed

Kebabcito wrote:
With AoR, specialist detachment are not allowed

Where did it say that? I have the book and I don’t see it.

The page before the adrenaline junkie rules, that large text

Spec detachements cannot be used.

But Spec Mobs like Boomboyz or Pyromaniac can be used.

 Tomsug wrote:
Spec detachements cannot be used.

But Spec Mobs like Boomboyz or Pyromaniac can be used.

What he said
We don’t have specialist detachments anymore since vigilus defiant… which technically is allowed still in some games. Narrative, open, matched, but Not tournament… I stopped using them regardless even though you can basically use them officially anywhere but in a tournament…

But specialist mobs are a GO!!!

gungo wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Spec detachements cannot be used.

But Spec Mobs like Boomboyz or Pyromaniac can be used.

What he said
We don’t have specialist detachments anymore since vigilus defiant… which technically is allowed still in some games. Narrative, open, matched, but Not tournament… I stopped using them regardless even though you can basically use them officially anywhere but in a tournament…

But specialist mobs are a GO!!!

Exactly. Except Speed Mob. Because Speed Mob is not a Mob. Speed Mob is an Army