Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics

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**gungo**

I mean technically vigilus defiant and even worse saga of the beast are no longer used…. But I think GW pretends like those books are still valid in narrative, open and sometimes matched but the vast majority of the content has already been picked apart and some of it updated to the codex. I think the only reason they keep them valid is to pretend people who bought those books in mid-late 2020 didn’t waste thier money. I at least expect this campaign book to be valid for about ~3 years before 10th edition gets a release date.

**Jidmah**

Psychic awakening is dead. Vigilus is a different matter because it's mostly about narrative play and that doesn't really care about what is legal and what is not, as long as it works.

**Tomsug**

Jidmah makes me to count my orks. And guys, this is a problem. I have over 10k p of orks, almost 8000p them are fullpainted.

And I don ' t have enough models to build the list I want.

Non of the lists I want.

Simply… not enough dakka.

Is there a chance, it will be better anytime soon? Or do I simply need about 30k to have at least some dakka?

**Some_Call_Me_Tim**

Orks are just weird like that if you want to be competitive. It’s always been that you need a billion boyz, a ton of battlewagons, mobs of nob bikers, walls of kans, batteries of mek gunz, and now battalions of buggies. Who knows what the nerfs we got will make the new thing to spam out.

**gungo**

Jidmah wrote:
Psychic awakening is dead. Vigilus is a different matter because it's mostly about narrative play and that doesn't really care about what is legal and what is not, as long as it works.

Ya but GW keeps mentioning specialist detachments which should already be dead for matched… since they’ve moved into army of renown.

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Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah makes me to count my orks. And guys, this is a problem. I have over 10k p of orks, almost 8000p them are fullpainted.

And I don ' t have enough models to build the list I want.

Non of the lists I want.

Simply… not enough dakka.

Is there a chance, it will be better anytime soon? Or do I simply need about 30k to have at least some dakka?

I got a ton too and I still don’t have enough warbikers to make a decent army of renown… I have 7 buggies but I don’t have 3 of every buggy I just proxy.. in tournaments that’s not really allowed. You got to make due with what you got.. if all you have is 1 of each buggy play with those.. if all you got is 9 warbikers play with those. If you got 3 trukks then play the triple patrol trukkboy, kommando, stormboy list.

**Vineheart01**

Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah makes me to count my orks. And guys, this is a problem. I have over 10k p of orks, almost 8000p them are fullpainted.

And I don ' t have enough models to build the list I want.

Non of the lists I want.

Simply… not enough dakka.

Is there a chance, it will be better anytime soon? Or do I simply need about 30k to have at least some dakka?

Funny story, i made a comment in the local discord about the new xmas ork boxing being the usual assortment of random units instead of stuff that works together and i immediately got "YOU HAVE ENOUGH ORKS STOP B****ING" lol....

**Madjob**

It's a random assortment but actually a decent starting point to build out from. Nothing feels too niche that the average Ork player would regret picking it up.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim**

It’s just kinda bad, nothing works together.

Should’ve either gone full speed freeks with the deffkilla, or go full classic stuff, a warboss, 2 meganobz kits for the option of 6, or 5 and a big mek, some boyz, and a battlewagon or somethin.

**addnid**

Tomsug wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:

thats good to know because i havent had a gak ton of games with the new codex.

Well, I guess nobody knows all the units. Maybe.. except one creepy guy who tried to persuade me yeasterday that wahapedia and battlescribe are superfluous and our moanig about “wahapedia is the only place, where you can actually see the valid rules” is stupid because if you read the faq, you remember it and you don' t need any up-to-date data. He said, it is just for the lazy people…

It is best not to talk about Wahapedia so it stays under the radar

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gungo wrote:
No warboss on bike on the survey I’d rate it same as wartrike.

Funny originally I’d say bloodaxe was worse clan but it’s on par with most clans now w supplement. With freebooter probably being a 5* everyone else 4* with badmoons and snakebites on 3* being extremely situational use.

I think the original post on units is good with only issue is the jump up the big Mek w kff took. Warbikers ranking are justified now w speedmob. The limitations on aircraft and buggies don’t make them any less or more in rankings except shokk jump is probably only good as a single model unit. I think KBB will join scrapjets and squigbuggies as popular choices. Killrigs probably should go up too.

I probably should not have rated grot tanks or grot mega tanks ad I don’t have or play them.

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addnid wrote:
gungo wrote:
First off crashing thru is 6mw on average on 6x deffkoptas NOT 3… that’s the broken part

And out da sun is twice the points of the ad mech version… I still think it will be faq so you can’t reserve drop and back to reserve same turn though… but it’s currently overpowered especially if you are using TO The Last secondary on 4-5x deffkoptas)

Sistas have the 20 pack with storm bolters that do 6 MW when buffed, so does ad mech with wrath of mars. Why on earth do you think crachin thru will get nerfed ? I am totally with you on out da sun though, it will get nerfed like other similar strats 100% (2 cp is becauyse we orks tend to pay more for strats, which compensates for our cheap units i guess, and i prefer cheap units to cheap strats myself heh heh)

Why are peole discussing strengh 6 warbikers ? I don't see how we can get them to strengh 6

Because crashing thru is cheaper and easier to use. Wrath of mars requires 36 wound rolls to average 6 maximum mortal wounds for at best 2cp for any unit capable of doing it. Crashing thru is NOT capped at 6 mortals either. It averages 6 mortals but can maximum 18 mortal wounds!!! There really is no comparison half the cp cost for a much higher mw chance. I mean if they nerf it by capping it to 6mw and made it 1cp/2cp it would be the same. Honestly I think they forgot deffkoptas are vehicles and speedfreaks…

Also I don’t buy the screw you orks you pay double for the same strat nonsense.

20-30 hits for ad mech is perfectly doable. And they won’t be trading their unit like we do (well when they fix the sunny side up strat anyway). I would say I like both strat the same. And we need a very restrictive build (speed mob) to use ours.

**gungo**

It’s wound rolls not hit rolls and only works on a 6 to wound…
You need 36 wound rolls to get 6 mortal wounds on avaerage that’s not easy even for ad mech. Plus it’s capped at 6 mortals total so you can waste a bunch of 6s if you roll well…

I mean the deffkoptas can throw out 18 mortals if you roll perfectly for half the CP… it’s really no comparison.

Saying you need speed mob is like saying you need mars.. the point we were talking about is crashing through on deffkoptas is pretty overpowered to similar abilities.. it’s not as broken as out da sun but crashing through is basically double the efficiency of anything comparable. Heck it’s a fair strat for 1cp on 2-3 buggies or 5-6 warbikers and that’s half as efficient as deffkoptas.

**Jidmah**

Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah makes me to count my orks. And guys, this is a problem. I have over 10k p of orks, almost 8000p them are fullpainted.

And I don ' t have enough models to build the list I want.

Non of the lists I want.

Simply… not enough dakka.

Is there a chance, it will be better anytime soon? Or do I simply need about 30k to have at least some dakka?

Hah, I don't even know how many points I have, and I for sure don't have enough space to get everything out of its boxes to count. I know I did pass 6k by the end of 5th, so go figure

When I got back in 8th I mostly stopped caring about fielding perfect cookie-cutters. For one chasing the FotM just give GW more leverage to force you into buying more when they axe the current competitive stuff. Second, playing more varied lists is more fun. Last, but not least, the gap in skill usually is big enough that I can beat the tar out of players chasing the FotM with my random assortment of gak

That said, I just barely manage to get 2k points of speed mob without resorting to legends (I actually have a biker pain boy and kff mek) or garbage nob bikers, and I need to field da boomer and most of my koptas to do so.

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Vineheart01 wrote:
Funny story, i made a comment in the local discord about the new xmas ork boxing being the usual assortment of random units instead of stuff that works together and i immediately got "YOU HAVE ENOUGH ORKS STOP B****ING" lol....

Judging from the poll results so far, almost all of us own more orks than sane people should

**Grimskul**

Madjob wrote:
It's a random assortment but actually a decent starting point to build out from. Nothing feels too niche that the average Ork player would regret picking it up.

Ehhhh, I would heavily disagree with that. For Orks, we aren't like marines where you have a reasonably functional army if you pick units at random. Orks really rely on skew or hyper-focused lists to perform even adequately in most environments, even if they aren't hypercompetitive. A convential combined arms approach for Orks is a set up for disaster and the box set is exactly that. The Deffkilla Wartrike will force the list into a Speedwaaagh when pretty much only the dakkajet can benefit meaningfully from it. You have Ork boyz and Nobz with no Trukk support to go with them, a random unit of grots that I guess works for backfield objective holding. The SAG Mek is pretty meh as far as fire support goes and will be far from enough to deal with any actual enemy vehicles that your army comes across.

A better composition would have been:

Ork Warboss on Foot (Grukk model)
2 Ork boyz kits
Dakkajet
2 Units of Mega Nobz (so you can build a KFF MA Big Mek with one of them)
2 Trukks

If they wanted to keep the Speed Freeks kind of format it should be:

Deffkilla Wartrike
6 Warbikerz
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy
Megatrakk Scrapjet
Kustom Boosta Blasta
Dakkajet

But that's just me.

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Vineheart01 wrote:
Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah makes me to count my orks. And guys, this is a problem. I have over 10k p of orks, almost 8000p them are fullpainted.

And I don ' t have enough models to build the list I want.

Non of the lists I want.

Simply… not enough dakka.

Is there a chance, it will be better anytime soon? Or do I simply need about 30k to have at least some dakka?

Funny story, i made a comment in the local discord about the new xmas ork boxing being the usual assortment of random units instead of stuff that works together and i immediately got "YOU HAVE ENOUGH ORKS STOP B****ING" lol....

That's how you know you got non-Orkses in the chat, proppa greenies know the WAAAGH! never stops growin!

**Jidmah**

addnid wrote:
It is best not to talk about Wahapedia so it stays under the radar

They've already been contacted by GW's legal team, so I guess the cat is out of the bag.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Madjob wrote:
It's a random assortment but actually a decent starting point to build out from. Nothing feels too niche that the average Ork player would regret picking it up.

I'm with Grimskul here. Unless you want the new boyz or you don't own most of the models, you should steer clear of that box.

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
addnid wrote:
It is best not to talk about Wahapedia so it stays under the radar

They've already been contacted by GW's legal team, so I guess the cat is out of the bag.

AFAIK, can GW even do anything? It's under a Russian website, so just like China, I don't think you can litigate IP since both countries basically don't give a flying fart.

**Jidmah**

Grimskul wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
addnid wrote:
It is best not to talk about Wahapedia so it stays under the radar

They've already been contacted by GW's legal team, so I guess the cat is out of the bag.

AFAIK, can GW even do anything? It's under a Russian website, so just like China, I don't think you can litigate IP since both countries basically don't give a flying fart.

Well, they can still send him e-mails. Apparently he posted them on his patreon

AFAIK in UK there also is this odd law that they need to at least try to do something about their IP, otherwise other people can point to that case as precedent.

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
addnid wrote:
It is best not to talk about Wahapedia so it stays under the radar

They've already been contacted by GW's legal team, so I guess the cat is out of the bag.

AFAIK, can GW even do anything? It's under a Russian website, so just like China, I don't think you can litigate IP since both countries basically don't give a flying fart.

Well, they can still send him e-mails. Apparently he posted them on his patreon

AFAIK in UK there also is this odd law that they need to at least try to do something about their IP, otherwise other people can point to that case as precedent.

Ah, gotcha, so you got to do the song and dance even if you know there might not be any real result. Makes sense.

IP law always felt like it was a pain in the arse to manage.

In any case, I'm glad at the very least that our Combat Patrol is significantly better than the Christmas offering box for Orks. I guess we still got the Red Gobbo on Bounca?

**cody.d.**

Yeah can't say i'm that impressed by the ork box. Most of the others feel more interesting. Ours is a bit all over the place.

You got the start of a goff horde with the boys and nobs, you got some speedfreak stuff with the wartrike and the flyer, a random shokk mek wedged in and some grots because why not.

I know it's just to shift... old? unwanted? underselling I guess, stock. But damn stick to a theme. A pair of nauts, dreads and kans maybe? A few different vehicles with some warbikers? A whole bunch of different infantry types.

**addnid**

gungo wrote:
It’s wound rolls not hit rolls and only works on a 6 to wound…
You need 36 wound rolls to get 6 mortal wounds on avaerage that’s not easy even for ad mech. Plus it’s capped at 6 mortals total so you can waste a bunch of 6s if you roll well…

I mean the deffkoptas can throw out 18 mortals if you roll perfectly for half the CP… it’s really no comparison.

Saying you need speed mob is like saying you need mars.. the point we were talking about is crashing through on deffkoptas is pretty overpowered to similar abilities.. it’s not as broken as out da sun but crashing through is basically double the efficiency of anything comparable. Heck it’s a fair strat for 1cp on 2-3 buggies or 5-6 warbikers and that’s half as efficient as deffkoptas.

Hits = wound rolls, but yes crashing through is more powerful than wrath of mars, especially on Koptas. Koptas can hide then move 14 and then charge, so it’s really good. However I think speed mobs will have issues trading against cheap dangerous units, but we will only know after a couple tournament results I guess. I am giving the blood axe supplement a try for now, along with triple kill rigs

**Jidmah**

cody.d. wrote:
Yeah can't say i'm that impressed by the ork box. Most of the others feel more interesting. Ours is a bit all over the place.

You got the start of a goff horde with the boys and nobs, you got some speedfreak stuff with the wartrike and the flyer, a random shokk mek wedged in and some grots because why not.

I know it's just to shift... old? unwanted? underselling I guess, stock. But damn stick to a theme. A pair of nauts, dreads and kans maybe? A few different vehicles with some warbikers? A whole bunch of different infantry types.

The worst part is that it comes with a dakkajet instead of a wazzbom... Same kit, but one less sprue.

**Tomsug**

Jidmah wrote:

Hah, I don't even know how many points I have, and I for sure don't have enough space to get everything out of its boxes to count. I know I did pass 6k by the end of 5th, so go figure …… etc

That sounds like a serious problem with the storage. I play warhammer for 3,5 year so it means I do 2500p per year for fun.

6th ed is 2000+. So its 20 years. For me it' s a forecast of another 50.000p of orks.

I need a second flat.

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Jidmah wrote:

The worst part is that it comes with a dakkajet instead of a wazzbom... Same kit, but one less sprue.

You mean, they are so cruel? No…

But technicaly, you could be right. It is an aditional sprue! Hell… that is ugly…

**cody.d.**

So they even took out the most interesting option? Noice!

**Tomsug**

cody.d. wrote:
Yeah can't say i'm that impressed by the ork box. Most of the others feel more interesting. Ours is a bit all over the place.

It ' s because you have all the ork stuff already and secretly thinks about another army. Freud is speaking from your heart. I have the same problem.

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cody.d. wrote:
So they even took out the most interesting option? Noice!

be little positive. It could be just bad advertisement!

**cody.d.**

Tomsug wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Yeah can't say i'm that impressed by the ork box. Most of the others feel more interesting. Ours is a bit all over the place.

It ' s because you have all the ork stuff already and secretly thinks about another army. Freud is speaking from your heart. I have the same problem.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
So they even took out the most interesting option? Noice!
be little positive. It could be just bad advertisement!

I suppose you make a fair point in that regard. But even trying to look at it through a different lens. We get 2-3 troop options and 2 HQs and 2 other units that aren't super interesting.

Other factions got 1 HQ, 1 troop then a few specialist units (marines blurring the line with 3 types of intercessors, who are in their own odd way specialists.) The admech one seems like a winner in it's variety though.

**MrStressy**

Thanks for putting the poll up Jid, put my two cents in. I've been playing orks since 2018 and have about 8500 pts worth of painted greenies, it's the spores man I'm sure of it, they just keep making more of themselves...

**Afrodactyl**

Tomsug wrote:Jidmah makes me to count my orks. And guys, this is a problem. I have over 10k p of orks, almost 8000p them are fullpainted.

And I don ' t have enough models to build the list I want.

Non of the lists I want.

Simply… not enough dakka.

Is there a chance, it will be better anytime soon? Or do I simply need about 30k to have at least some dakka?

I did have about 12k of orks way back when and I regrettably sold it all. Currently built it back up to about 4/5k.

I like all of the individual components to the Ork battleforce, but not as a single box set. If probably actually like it more if it has the old boys to be honest. Nobz and Boyz are a good utilitarian "bits" kit, similar to the trukk and deff dread kits.

A box of Nobz, two boxes of old Boyz, a Deff Dread, a Trukk, a BW and a jet would be a kitbashers dream.

**Jidmah**

I would agree if they didn't have nobz in every single box they have ever made. Nobz and warbikers are the only things that I have on sprues lying around with no intention of ever building them

**russellmoo**

I have no interest in the new box set, for starters why did GW include a unit that most ork players can now o my take two of, as well as units that ork players are not even going to take. At best the ork box can be used by new ork players trying to start an army but if you already have an ork army you have all of those units.

**Tomsug**

Yeah, I ' m not interested in the box - I don' t need the 5th SAG. But my brothers 12year son is.

**Jidmah**

Tomsug wrote:
Yeah, I ' m not interested in the box - I don' t need the 5th SAG. But my brothers 12year son is.

The target audience is probably "people with no clue of 40k buying christmas presents". In that context, the boxes aren't terrible since they are unlikely to be completely worthless for someone playing orks. Unlike the previous iterations of "nobz, deff dread, battlewagon, kanz" where you had to explain to people that you have already maxed out all those units because GW put the same stuff in every box...

I remember one of the local GW monkeys trying to shove the grukk box on me.
"It even has killa kanz!" "Dude, I've got enough kanz." "You can't ever have enough!" "I've got 18." "Well... maybe for apoc?" *dumb grin*

**Tomsug**

Yeah, that´s it.