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 Tomsug wrote:
Fun fact:

If you try to finish Mortarion off with your Speed Mob by strucking him by your cars and koptas, it is important to remember following:

5x Spiked Ram + 4x Crashin' Through + 1x Ramming Speed can deal up to 30 MW in charge.

This is masive.

But the average is 10.

And minimum is 0.

I did 1. It was saved by Mortarions 5+ FNP.

Oof. That's rough. I know that feel. Sometimes you can really whiff your "I run you over" rolls, especially when you really need them.

that sounds like my typical luck with Ramming Speed.
Never fail the charge, even if its a pretty lengthy one, but i almost ALWAYS fail the damn 2+ check afterwords.

Theres a reason theres a joke that i never run MANz anymore because they have a 2+ armor (legit, the 3 games i brought a squad of manz they died to....bolter fire....and not an obscene amount either)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
that sounds like my typical luck with Ramming Speed.
Never fail the charge, even if its a pretty lengthy one, but i almost ALWAYS fail the damn 2+ check afterwords.

Theres a reason theres a joke that i never run MANz anymore because they have a 2+ armor (legit, the 3 games i brought a squad of manz they died to....bolter fire....and not an obscene amount either)

Haha! It does feel weird when you're playing Orks, it's as if you're not allowed to pass 2+ rolls with them but you can pass all the 6+ or 5+ invuln saves in the world. I've learned this the hard way trying to play Deffwing with Orks. I've become infamous in my gaming group for somehow passing an absurd amount of KFF saves. Which makes me all the more sad I can only do that now for one turn unless I'm playing Speed Mob or something :(

 Vineheart01 wrote:
that sounds like my typical luck with Ramming Speed.
Never fail the charge, even if its a pretty lengthy one, but i almost ALWAYS fail the damn 2+ check afterwords.

Theres a reason theres a joke that i never run MANz anymore because they have a 2+ armor (legit, the 3 games i brought a squad of manz they died to....bolter fire....and not an obscene amount either)

No kidding. Ive failed a lot of +2 rolls for mortal wounds on charges too. Whether its a gargantuan squiggoth charge or ramming speed doesnt matter.

Last time i used my gargantuan squiggoth i made 3 charges, and 2 of them failed to roll 2+ so i couldnt deal that sweet D6 mortal wounds.

In theory you should almost never fail it but it sucks ass when it does.

Like, you pay 500 points for a gargantuan squiggoth which has little going for it, the least it could do was get a guaranteed mortal wounds roll off rather than rolling a 2+. I can understand rolling for it on ramming speed because you already get value from it by rolling 3D6s. But the irongob seems like a weird relic. You pay only for that effect. Which can fail but isnt really meant to.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
that sounds like my typical luck with Ramming Speed.
Never fail the charge, even if its a pretty lengthy one, but i almost ALWAYS fail the damn 2+ check afterwords.

Theres a reason theres a joke that i never run MANz anymore because they have a 2+ armor (legit, the 3 games i brought a squad of manz they died to....bolter fire....and not an obscene amount either)

No kidding. Ive failed a lot of +2 rolls for mortal wounds on charges too. Whether its a gargantuan squiggoth charge or ramming speed doesnt matter.

Last time i used my gargantuan squiggoth i made 3 charges, and 2 of them failed to roll 2+ so i couldnt deal that sweet D6 mortal wounds.

In theory you should almost never fail it but it sucks ass when it does.

Like, you pay 500 points for a gargantuan squiggoth which has little going for it, the least it could do was get a guaranteed mortal wounds roll off rather than rolling a 2+. I can understand rolling for it on ramming speed because you already get value from it by rolling 3D6s. But the irongob seems like a weird relic. You pay only for that effect. Which can fail but isnt really meant to.

I've always thought that the IronGob should have been a way to inflict "attacks last" in addition to the D3 mortals to an enemy unit and at the very start of the fight phase as well instead of at the end that it bizarrely is right now. You'd think that an Ork would start with a headbutt rather than only after they started fighting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New Tau Hammerhead stats are out:



It looks like a pretty hard counter to dreadnought spam in the current meta, and depending on its cost and how limited it is in being taken, I can see them popping a buggy a turn. Not sure if this heavily affects Kill Rig lists but it might shift more people to the Alphork strike list due to it's ability to bypass invulns.

Ability to bypass our 6++ (ok, sometimes 5++) is not so dramatic.

But the Deldar and Deamons cry like a hell…

Honestly the biggest effect it may have on orks lists is not how it affects us, but how it affects the meta. As in it doesnt really affect us directly, but it may change what we see other armies running in the future, which will mean our lists may have to change in response. Because personally, all my tanks save my kannonwagon are much cheaper than a hammerhead and die in one shot. The kannonwagon can be one 1 wound for all I care, it still hits on 4's.

Honestly the hammerheads biggest worry for me is if it gets a lucky shot on a key trukk boy unit, since its pretty much guaranteed to take that trukkboy unit out of the fight for a while. Even then, everything in a tau list is threat to a trukk, right down to the gun drones and fire warriors. Im hoping that the threat of kommandos will keep a tau player occupied if they get turn 1, but depending on what all they have to ignore cover it could be rough

I don't think the Hammerhead will be used all that often in all honesty. A one per detachment type of deal at most.

Hear me out.

It absolutely annihilates whatever single target it hits at a very good range, regardless of whether it's a knight, a monster or character. Two HHs stand a pretty good chance of killing anything that normal 40k can reasonably field, barring things like Ghaz or C'Tan.

These will 100% be priority number one for anyone facing them, and will be shot off the table as soon as possible to prevent them nuking your expensive stuff. I don't see GW making the HH super durable without it being made absurdly expensive to compensate, so it should be killable pretty quickly if you can get LOS on it.

Taking three HH's is going to be overkill and wasted points except against pure Knights lists and Bid Monster Mash or something. One isn't enough because it gets killed straight away, so two is the magic number. The rest of the list will be full of things like burst cannons and blast weapons to deal with infantry and chip everything else down.


There's also the factor that the HH presents some super big, super spooky numbers. People don't want their stuff getting one shot, so they either lean in to infantry so that the firepower is wasted, or lean eeeven further into AT alpha strike to kill the HH before it can do anything. Either way, the HH suffers where other more flexible units prosper.

I think the HH will be seen infrequently, but will absolutely matter when it does show up.

Orks are always anti-meta skew lists. We will adapt, we will overcome.

 Tomsug wrote:
Ability to bypass our 6++ (ok, sometimes 5++) is not so dramatic.

But the Deldar and Deamons cry like a hell…

I’m more worried about Submunitions.

Killing 4 (or less, if Nurgle) lesser daemons ain’t a big deal. Greater Daemons aren’t worth it to me before this.
But the ability to drop 8 MW if the squad is at 12? That’s brutal.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I don't think the Hammerhead will be used all that often in all honesty. A one per detachment type of deal at most.

Hear me out.

It absolutely annihilates whatever single target it hits at a very good range, regardless of whether it's a knight, a monster or character. Two HHs stand a pretty good chance of killing anything that normal 40k can reasonably field, barring things like Ghaz or C'Tan.

These will 100% be priority number one for anyone facing them, and will be shot off the table as soon as possible to prevent them nuking your expensive stuff. I don't see GW making the HH super durable without it being made absurdly expensive to compensate, so it should be killable pretty quickly if you can get LOS on it.

Taking three HH's is going to be overkill and wasted points except against pure Knights lists and Bid Monster Mash or something. One isn't enough because it gets killed straight away, so two is the magic number. The rest of the list will be full of things like burst cannons and blast weapons to deal with infantry and chip everything else down.


There's also the factor that the HH presents some super big, super spooky numbers. People don't want their stuff getting one shot, so they either lean in to infantry so that the firepower is wasted, or lean eeeven further into AT alpha strike to kill the HH before it can do anything. Either way, the HH suffers where other more flexible units prosper.

I think the HH will be seen infrequently, but will absolutely matter when it does show up.

Orks are always anti-meta skew lists. We will adapt, we will overcome.

I would personally be concerned with the firepower of the heavy rail rifle carried by the battlesuits. These guys have more shots and more flexible loadouts that might make them very nasty against our tactic of buggy and plane spam. Alpha strike might gain another boost due to those. Also, the Hammerhead is definitely going to hurt a lot the Kill Rig list. It does a ridiculous amount of damage.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I don't think the Hammerhead will be used all that often in all honesty. A one per detachment type of deal at most.

Hear me out.

It absolutely annihilates whatever single target it hits at a very good range, regardless of whether it's a knight, a monster or character. Two HHs stand a pretty good chance of killing anything that normal 40k can reasonably field, barring things like Ghaz or C'Tan.

These will 100% be priority number one for anyone facing them, and will be shot off the table as soon as possible to prevent them nuking your expensive stuff. I don't see GW making the HH super durable without it being made absurdly expensive to compensate, so it should be killable pretty quickly if you can get LOS on it.

Taking three HH's is going to be overkill and wasted points except against pure Knights lists and Bid Monster Mash or something. One isn't enough because it gets killed straight away, so two is the magic number. The rest of the list will be full of things like burst cannons and blast weapons to deal with infantry and chip everything else down.


There's also the factor that the HH presents some super big, super spooky numbers. People don't want their stuff getting one shot, so they either lean in to infantry so that the firepower is wasted, or lean eeeven further into AT alpha strike to kill the HH before it can do anything. Either way, the HH suffers where other more flexible units prosper.

I think the HH will be seen infrequently, but will absolutely matter when it does show up.

Orks are always anti-meta skew lists. We will adapt, we will overcome.

I agree - I'm no more afraid of this thing than I am of a doomsday ark, eradicators or a wazzbom. Deleting armor with a single shooting phase is nothing new, the only difference is that they do it with a single shot.
Make sure to launch that cloud of smoke.

Egh main thing is the invul ignoring.. killrigs already faced a ton of stuff that basically made it’s save 6++ and did a ton of damage… a single hammer head even w max damage still can’t kill it. Ghaz would be the only unit we have that could have cared and he doesn’t care at all.

This unit basically trashes armies like grey knights, knights and even the new tyranid monster mash army of renown. The hammerhead is going to be over 200pts and be a 1 shot wonder…

Honestly the main issue I see with this is power creep is out of control.. seriously how is this weapon better then almost every superheavy titanic weapon or the silly deathstrike missile guard has that is 1 shot and takes several turns to fire and a worse to hit.

It's funny seeing firepower increases like this for other factions. best things we got were the buffs to kmb and tellyport blastas, which are only on a small handful of units.

Note that it's a single shot unit, and might cost a lot of points. The thing has to hit and wound (still on 3s vs T8). With -1 to hit it might even hit on 4s.

If this already worries you, what about the last sentence in which GW says that's not even the best gun Tau have?

 Blackie wrote:
Note that it's a single shot unit, and might cost a lot of points. The thing has to hit and wound (still on 3s vs T8). With -1 to hit it might even hit on 4s.

If this already worries you, what about the last sentence in which GW says that's not even the best gun Tau have?

Exactly. And what if? Kill one kopta or one buggy. I can live with that.

It could also shred 8 of your kommandos in one go for 1CP. I dont really care about the weapon i just think its a bit sad that its flexible enough to also work against hordes for 1CP.

Sorry to interrupt the HH discussion...

Just wanted to know general consensus for Boyz numbers. I’ve got 60 boyz (20 are the new combat patrol ones) and wondered how big to make units for non competitive but still efficient: mainly against necrons and Tau (I appreciate this is an unknown quantity at the mo). I’d like a mixture of shoota and slugga units. I had thought 2x 20 slugga and 2x 10 shoota- to grab objectives and do banners and such?

Stick with multiple 10 man mobs if you really want them, always. There's no advantage in bringing larger groups, only disadvantages.

Morale, blasts, coherency... are all major issues for large squads of boyz.

 Blackie wrote:
Stick with multiple 10 man mobs if you really want them, always. There's no advantage in bringing larger groups, only disadvantages.

Morale, blasts, coherency... are all major issues for large squads of boyz.

i always keep them in groups of 10. i just forgot it got +1 to deal mortal wounds on 11+ models not 10.

So yea against kommandos it would probably just shoot normally. even so an anti tanking weapon shredding 4 units with 1 shot is a bit sad. at least if it has nothing else to shoot at.

 Blackie wrote:
Stick with multiple 10 man mobs if you really want them, always. There's no advantage in bringing larger groups, only disadvantages.

Morale, blasts, coherency... are all major issues for large squads of boyz.

Brill. Thanks.

I’d play Goff so wanted the horde aesthetic but now it will be horde via MSU not 2-3 massive units.

Again thanks

Beardedragon wrote:
So yea against kommandos it would probably just shoot normally. even so an anti tanking weapon shredding 4 units with 1 shot is a bit sad. at least if it has nothing else to shoot at.

Pretty much every anti-tank weapon that is the primary gun on a battletank shreds 4 boyz, most of the panic about that think is a knee-jerk reaction. It doesn't really do anything other tanks can't also do, except it does it all in one shot instead of d6 blast.

3 eradicators also can delete 4 guys pretty reliably. I bet the cost of an hammered will be the same of 4-5 eradicators which, against our stuff, are much scarier than the tau gunboat and much more efficient against models like bikes, koptas, meganobz, etc... koptas in particular as at 4W the hammered can't kill more than one, just like killa kanz, anything else it can't kill more than two.

Sure. but i have a save value against those attacks.

Its a bit sad to watch a 72 inch long range gun deal over 10 wounds where some are mortals, without one being able to take a save or even invul save.

I mean to be perfectly clear this doesnt matter much to me as an ork player as i dont save gak anyway, but it matters if you play something else. Like knights.

Knights lose one knight if they are unlucky and then all three hamerheads die.

There is a 40% chance of the hammerhead failing to do damage, and you still get to do stuff like -1 damage or FNP.

If these guns see play at all, they will mostly hurt terminator armies like DG or GK.

Beardedragon wrote:
Sure. but i have a save value against those attacks.

Its a bit sad to watch a 72 inch long range gun deal over 10 wounds where some are mortals, without one being able to take a save or even invul save.

I mean to be perfectly clear this doesnt matter much to me as an ork player as i dont save gak anyway, but it matters if you play something else. Like knights.

Meltas are already AP-4 so we don't have any armour save at all or a 6+ (or 6++) at the very best. 5++ only in some specific cases. But even then since they fire more shots they'll likely do more damage than the hammeread. The hammered is good against armies that spam 4++ like GK or Custodes or models with T8 10+W and 4++ like Mortarion and knights. Against our vehicles or multiwounds models not so much. Eradicators at 45ppm have an higher return and they're also signficantly more durable than the tau vehicle.

GK spam 4++?

Well, few days ago, I had a game againts GK and they sucked like a hell. No sv++ or fnp, nothing. And terrible shooting. Just slow guys. I shot down last unit from the table in T3 and lost 3 bikers and 1 scrapjet. I would be ready in T2 but I moved my wazbooms to far away and get them out of range in T2…

It was totaly weird. The guy obviously missed something very important in his rulebook…. If this “miss” was armywide 4++ than it starts to make sence…

Competitive GK armies spam 3 or 4 dreadknights, they all have native 4++.

 Blackie wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Sure. but i have a save value against those attacks.

Its a bit sad to watch a 72 inch long range gun deal over 10 wounds where some are mortals, without one being able to take a save or even invul save.

I mean to be perfectly clear this doesnt matter much to me as an ork player as i dont save gak anyway, but it matters if you play something else. Like knights.

Meltas are already AP-4 so we don't have any armour save at all or a 6+ (or 6++) at the very best. 5++ only in some specific cases. But even then since they fire more shots they'll likely do more damage than the hammeread. The hammered is good against armies that spam 4++ like GK or Custodes or models with T8 10+W and 4++ like Mortarion and knights. Against our vehicles or multiwounds models not so much. Eradicators at 45ppm have an higher return and they're also signficantly more durable than the tau vehicle.

well. if i run the army of renown this gun would hurt a lot given the entire army basically has a 5++.

personally i think its a bit of an army creep when we start giving ranged weapons the ability to by pass parts of the game, in this case invul saves (and god how i hate auto wound ranged weapons too). I can understand it on close combat units, maybe, because more is involved and its harder to get in to CC. But for ranged attacks to just point and shoot i dont think there should be any invul by passes. There is already an advantage to be had by not needing to get in to CC.

Its not so much that it has to be a big deal for me playing this army as im.. right now not really fielding any real vehicles but i just dont think ranged weapons should by pass invul saves. i fear this tau codex is going to blow everything out the park when its released like Admech did (and still does). I dont hope it will but i fear it will as GW has never been too good to "make up for" something.

 Blackie wrote:
Competitive GK armies spam 3 or 4 dreadknights, they all have native 4++.

Oh yeah, there was 3 of such robots. That is right. But it was pretty easy to delete them anyway…

When a unit becomes trukk boyz does it lose its ability to benefit from the clan its a part of? IE no longer getting exploding 6s if part of a goff detachment. I'm confused about clan vs kulture.

I'm sure this has been answered ready in the thread, but I don't want to spend all day digging!

Cheers!