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2022/01/30 14:05:59
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Blackie wrote: Mark Perry's doesn't need to change anything, in fact I think it's a 1995 points list now!!
Lukas Troller's yeah, he's 90 points over. At first I thought all meganobz had kombi skorchas so removing those could have been enough. Still, replacing one squigboss with a biker boss and cutting some, not even all, kombi skorchas would already do. I think the biker boss is even better than the squigboss actually, less durable but more killy. He also has a 110 points footslogging squad of snaggas which might be redundant.
So one list actually benefits from the new points costs and the other one might not really be affected significantly.
Marks slightly over unless he drops the skorchas…
Honestly the only points increase I really didn’t like was 30pts on squigboss.. the generic only needed 15pt increase and mozgrod needed no increase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/30 14:06:48
2022/01/30 16:43:36
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I’m still of the opinion No ork is making top 8 I’m even doubtful on top 16… as he has to now make it through the gauntlet of only fighting tyranid crusher stampedes, drukari, greyknights, and custodes lists for the next 3 rounds. Because outside of mark perry those are the only lists in the top 25…..
Whats with Boss Zagsrtuk ??
What roll does he play in this list, I don't get it !
Someone please explain it to me
2022/01/30 18:28:25
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: Score the points. Holds the objectives, do the action. Solve the small “troubles”. Fast small easy to hide and able to kill character.
HMMmmm, able to kill characters sounds very appealing to me.
I play against Ultra marines very often. My opponent always has strong buffing characters giving reroll or invuls or healing/ reviving models. I can never kill them because they are always behind other stuff and "look out sir" protected.
The ability to zoom in and remove that would be a game changer for me. I will have to keep an eye out on e-bay see if I can pick one up.
thanks for the insight.
2022/01/30 21:23:16
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Warbikers [12 PL, 230pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [4 PL, 80pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun
+ Flyer +
Wazbom Blastajet [10 PL, 210pts]: 2x Tellyport Mega-Blastas, Blastajet Force Field
Wazbom Blastajet [10 PL, 210pts]: 2x Tellyport Mega-Blastas, Blastajet Force Field
++ Total: [97 PL, 12CP, 1,905pts] ++
You really need the CPs. Single Outrider ES works if you take it to the extreme =
- wartrike with the redder paint, squigtyres and fasta than yooz is a nonsens with up to 28” movement. Perfect for scoring anywhere. Very complementary with jumping Koptas. You can be really anywhere….
- unbalanced Warbiker squads are good. Small one do the bitz, big one do the mess.
- To the Last + Good Bitz + Homers / Strangelhold works. Others sucks mostly for the low count of the units. Except killing secondaries of course…
- Engage sucks. You have low unit count and you depserately need to make a disbalances on the table. Jumping from one half of the table to another to tear the enemy apart and benefit from your speed. You don' t want to be everywhere.
- I have a respect from new Taus. Can beat this down….
It' s a “kill them in 2 turns or die” kind of the game. Fast and fun. I like it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/30 21:31:07
I’m still of the opinion No ork is making top 8 I’m even doubtful on top 16… as he has to now make it through the gauntlet of only fighting tyranid crusher stampedes, drukari, greyknights, and custodes lists for the next 3 rounds. Because outside of mark perry those are the only lists in the top 25…..
Whats with Boss Zagsrtuk ??
What roll does he play in this list, I don't get it !
Someone please explain it to me
Boss Zagstruk is a hidden gem, he can fly with movement 12" gaurenteed advance of 18 and has a built in deep strike.
given you can advance and charge when a waaagh is declared he is pretty dangerous for 110 pts
SMASH
2022/01/30 23:39:38
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
LOOTAS will be down to 15 pts.
arn't they worth a serious look now? no one seems to be talking about them that much
lootas in boss bunka with the new terrain could be cool
Lootas could be 13ppm and still not a solid competitive choice. Compare it to every other 9th edition auto-cannon unit, and hell, even some of the 8th ones. Its weak. The Ad Mech chickenwalker has been nerfed twice now and its still significantly better in almost every way possible to the loota. 2 chickens gets you 12 shots and 8 hits on average for 150pts. For 150pts Lootas get 24(16) with 8(5.3) hits for the same price. Chickens are M10 to Lootas 5, they have the same WS. Durability wise, they have 12 T6 wounds with a 3+ save compared to the lootas who have 10 T5 wounds with a 6+ save.
Worse, against the plethora of -1 to hit abilities in the game, those chickenwalkers drop to 6 hits while the lootas drop to 4 and 1.3. And of course the most damning aspect of this comparison. Lootas CAN NOT deploy in the open, they require a Trukk to even survive past turn 1. That ups their cost by 70pts or 5pts less than an entire extra chickenwalker.
I consider SM suppressors to be fairly terrible right now and even they somehow out perform lootas at 15ppm. 100pts gets you 3 of them for 9 shots and 6 hits. For 100pts you get 6.6 lootas, so really 5.6 lootas and a spanna. At absolute best that means they average 5.6 hits a turn and at 25-48' range thats 3.7 a turn. They have 6 wounds to the Orkz 6.6, theirs are only T4 but with a 3+ save compared to the lootas with T5 but 6+ save. Suppressors are also M12 to the lootas 5. And of course the real reason anyone would take suppressors isn't their firepower its the ability "suppressing Fire" which stops a unit from firing overwatch if they are hit even once that turn by them. So 3 shots on average hitting on 3s means you could split fire and stop 3 separate units from declaring overwatch.
the gist of the loota problem is that they aren't capable of doing the job they were originally designed for. it used to be you would stick lootas in Ruins to give them a 4+ cover save and have them sit there the entire game plinking away with D3 shots. This was also in an age where Shootas were ok, not great, but ok. Now those same lootas have morale problems, don't benefit from cover like they used to and worse, their dmg output has basically stayed the same. Dakka 3(2) is not a big improvement over what it was, and especially not in a game where D3+3 weapons are a dime a dozen.
This problem seems to have percolated across the entire ork weapons systems this edition. Marines and imperials got D2 and D3+3 melta weapons, other imperials got D3+3 lascannons, Dark Eldar got D3+3 weapons and now the Tau one upped everyone with a D3+6+3MW weapon. What did Orkz get for our faction specific ranged weapons? Rokkitz went from Assault 1 to Heavy D3. So we went from 0.3 hits a turn to 0.6 a turn on average, unless the model moves, then its right back to 0.3, and with the inclusion of "blast" keyword we can't use them in CC on our vehicles, most of which want to be in CC (Kanz, Dreadz, Nauts, Scrapjets etc). The Ork deffgun went from D3 shots to Dakka 3(2). A non-existent increase in their firepower. They did drop in price significantly from 8th edition, but also at the inclusion of a Spanner model which eats up space and is mostly useless.
So again, you could bump them down to 13ppm and they would still struggle to find a place in the game. Repeating myself in regards to how I want boyz to be buffed rather than a simple price cut, in other words, make them worth their points cost rather than just dropping it until they are too cheap. I think lootas likewise don't need a price cut, they need a dmg increase and a durability increase. Give Lootas 5+ saves so when they hide in cover its back to a 4+ and increase their shots to D3+2 and make them heavy again rather then Dakka 3(2). I would like the stupid spanner rule gone, but I doubt GW would be that nice. So 10 of these guys at 15ppm would then be putting out 24-40 shots a turn. On the high end that averages 13.3 hits and on the low end that is 8 hits. Not great but a hell of a lot better than it currently is, especially in an edition with -1dmg and +1 to armor everywhere.
The math on lootas just feels awful shooting into any target. They also have 0 defense. They feel like a unit still stuck in pre-8th edition where you just needed a single penetrating hit to kill a vehicle.
2022/02/01 15:37:40
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Question about spiked rams and ramming speed? Havent played in a while forgive me.
Says MWs are done during the charge move and once finished. Do you roll separately for each series of MW, since they are done at 2 different times? During the charge move and once the charge move is finished?
Also, if enough mortal wounds are done, is it possible for the opponent to remove models from the front thus denying engagement from your models and denying you from attacking in melee?
2022/02/01 16:02:18
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Dr.Duck wrote: Question about spiked rams and ramming speed? Havent played in a while forgive me.
Says MWs are done during the charge move and once finished. Do you roll separately for each series of MW, since they are done at 2 different times? During the charge move and once the charge move is finished?
Also, if enough mortal wounds are done, is it possible for the opponent to remove models from the front thus denying engagement from your models and denying you from attacking in melee?
You should get both the Spiked Ram roll for MW and the Ramming Speed roll for MW.
If you charge, you can always activate in combat-so you'd have a 3" pile-in to nab the unit you charged. It is POSSIBLE to kill yourself out of fighting range with the MW, but pretty hard.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2022/02/01 17:15:32
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I think "get the good bits" has had a stealth buff as a result of nachmund particularly for speedmobz. 5 of the new missions have 3 objectives in no man's land(optimal) 3 have 4 objectives in no man's land and theres 1 with 5 objectives in no man's land (probably the worst as your opponent would get to nominate the two they want to defend. None of the new mission have 2 any more.
I know we now have access to retrieve nachmund data which lends itself to engage but I know the other speed mob players have noticed the tendency of our lists to skew towards lower unit numbers which obviously leans away from engage.
2022/02/01 17:16:45
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Anyone had any experience with Kopta Big Bomms - worth it or not? Seems like Koptas are generally charging in from deepstrike so not much oppurtunity to be moving over a clump of units.
Also i'm slightly confused about Get Da Good bits, I'm sure I saw something about how bikes could carry on moving while completing the Action, but I can't find reference to that aside from a Blood Axe stratgem, so I might be getting confused there? Does a Speedmob army have to commit bike squad(s) stationary in the mid field for an entire turn to score? But if my understanding is correct, you could score from multiple Good bits points if you control them successfully, scoring 6 or 9 pts if you are lucky - as there isn't a 'per turn' cap like there is with 'da biggest and da best'?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/01 17:23:59
2022/02/01 18:12:12
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Lootas suffer from being very squishy, very expensive for what they offer, and not doing enough damage. I imagine if they got rid of one of those problems they would be nearly viable. Preferably just doing more damage and annihilating their target before being pasted in return rather than tickling it.
Levski wrote: Anyone had any experience with Kopta Big Bomms - worth it or not? Seems like Koptas are generally charging in from deepstrike so not much oppurtunity to be moving over a clump of units.
If you have a spare five points I couldn't see any harm in the bomb itself, however you would lose out on the reliable damage of the rokkits for damage that's a bit more swingy because of the fewer shots.
Worth mucking about with for sure.
2022/02/01 18:44:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Levski wrote: Anyone had any experience with Kopta Big Bomms - worth it or not? Seems like Koptas are generally charging in from deepstrike so not much oppurtunity to be moving over a clump of units.
Also i'm slightly confused about Get Da Good bits, I'm sure I saw something about how bikes could carry on moving while completing the Action, but I can't find reference to that aside from a Blood Axe stratgem, so I might be getting confused there? Does a Speedmob army have to commit bike squad(s) stationary in the mid field for an entire turn to score? But if my understanding is correct, you could score from multiple Good bits points if you control them successfully, scoring 6 or 9 pts if you are lucky - as there isn't a 'per turn' cap like there is with 'da biggest and da best'?
I ran 4 rokkits and 1 blasts with bomb on a squad of 5 deffkoptas and I have since changed to all rokkits. I managed to use the bomb in one out of 5 games while I could have used the extra d3 shots in all 5 games.
The speedmobz rule allows the bikes to move and advance and still count as a normal move allowing you to do an action. If you move AFTER the action has started the action is cancelled (for example with drive by dakka). You are correct that you can attempt the action multiple times with a possibility of scoring up to 9 VP. If you have player placed terrain or are doing the mission where you move the objective try and swing it so one unit of bikes can do the action from out of line of sight. Try to get 6vp in turn 2 (by starting the action on at least 2 markers T1) and then just use the bike squad in cover to complete the action each turn to max out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/01 19:00:21
2022/02/01 22:26:32
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: I think "get the good bits" has had a stealth buff as a result of nachmund particularly for speedmobz. 5 of the new missions have 3 objectives in no man's land(optimal) 3 have 4 objectives in no man's land and theres 1 with 5 objectives in no man's land (probably the worst as your opponent would get to nominate the two they want to defend. None of the new mission have 2 any more.
I know we now have access to retrieve nachmund data which lends itself to engage but I know the other speed mob players have noticed the tendency of our lists to skew towards lower unit numbers which obviously leans away from engage.
Very good point! I checked it and compare it with my experience with Bitz and it is even more interesting:
1. There are two reasons, why (or how) score the Bitz
- you can score a lot on the end. To do this, you however need enough units alive. Clever opponent can focus his fire on your bikers or other scoring units and you maybe krump him, but do not score the Bitz, because you have no suitable units on the end. Bad news for single detachement Speed Mob army…
- there is is however second way how to score - on one single objective every turn. You need just one unit but this should be well hidden.
2. In CA21 there was one mission very suitable to score the Bitz - 23 Scouring - because one Bitz objective was always about 3” from your deployment zone. So you was usually able to score it from T1 and from behind the LOS block.
In CA22 there are two such missions - 23 and 11. Even better!
So again, you could bump them down to 13ppm and they would still struggle to find a place in the game. Repeating myself in regards to how I want boyz to be buffed rather than a simple price cut, in other words, make them worth their points cost rather than just dropping it until they are too cheap. I think lootas likewise don't need a price cut, they need a dmg increase and a durability increase. Give Lootas 5+ saves so when they hide in cover its back to a 4+ and increase their shots to D3+2 and make them heavy again rather then Dakka 3(2). I would like the stupid spanner rule gone, but I doubt GW would be that nice. So 10 of these guys at 15ppm would then be putting out 24-40 shots a turn. On the high end that averages 13.3 hits and on the low end that is 8 hits. Not great but a hell of a lot better than it currently is, especially in an edition with -1dmg and +1 to armor everywhere.
I agree, lootas have no spot. But i would just increase it to 2 wounds and increase the amounts of shots to dakka 4/3?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/02 15:07:05
2022/02/02 15:27:10
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Giving them something to effectively increase ballistic skill would be better imo. Autohit dakka would work, as would some additional ap, like 2 or something.
Could also go back to real old lootas, you can equip em with any wargear options from other armies, cheap platforms for dark lances wouldn’t be terrible.
"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos
2022/02/02 16:29:48
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
i think the gun just needs to be better.
S7 Ap1 2D is not that good right now. Lacks AP to punch through armor, -1D is common, S7 doesnt hurt big things very well and doesnt smash smaller things either.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/02/02 18:11:47
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Looking at the new mission 12 "tear down their icon" a speed mob squad of 3 kbbs could be ideal "bomb layers/tertiary action monkeys" especially T1/T2 when they'll have little else to do. They're a nightmare to charge and can advance and do actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mission 23 "scouring" also has a tertiary action objective ideal with 5 objectives within close range of each other.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/02 19:49:51
2022/02/02 20:04:46
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: i think the gun just needs to be better.
S7 Ap1 2D is not that good right now. Lacks AP to punch through armor, -1D is common, S7 doesnt hurt big things very well and doesnt smash smaller things either.
Exactly, their profile is obsolete. On the other hand they already have 3 shots each and forcing players to roll more dice just to get ok results isn't the right way. Nor is making them so cheap that they become spammable.
I'd like an increased armour save (4+) and some buffs to their weapons instead, which can keep the autocannon profile but could gain 1 or 2 side effects/abilities, like +1 to wound vs vehicles/monsters and/or causing a mortal wound on 6s to wound in addition to other damage, or getting AP-3 on 6s to wound. Modifyers on the BS could works as well, but not modifyers to the hit roll though, since they have to be stackable with freebooterz trait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/02 20:05:28
2022/02/02 20:34:34
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Since the spanner isn’t going anywhere because it’s in the plastic kit… my fix for lootas is to make the spanner useful right out of the box…
First fix big shootas and make it -1 ap/ 2dam and increase range to 48 to match deff guns…
I also wouldn’t mind seeing deffguns become 4/2.
Next add a rule to spanners something like
“tracer rounds”- each time a spanner model hits the lootas in his unit get +1 to hit. (Effectively making lootas bs4)
Bs4+ deffguns at 4/2 are then worth 15pts… they still die to a stiff breeze… but they need transports… I don’t think lootas need more armor that’s the role flashgitz should play.. as soon as they make snazzgun Dakka instead of heavy…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/02 20:35:46
2022/02/03 02:23:38
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: i think the gun just needs to be better.
S7 Ap1 2D is not that good right now. Lacks AP to punch through armor, -1D is common, S7 doesnt hurt big things very well and doesnt smash smaller things either.
Exactly, their profile is obsolete. On the other hand they already have 3 shots each and forcing players to roll more dice just to get ok results isn't the right way. Nor is making them so cheap that they become spammable.
I'd like an increased armour save (4+) and some buffs to their weapons instead, which can keep the autocannon profile but could gain 1 or 2 side effects/abilities, like +1 to wound vs vehicles/monsters and/or causing a mortal wound on 6s to wound in addition to other damage, or getting AP-3 on 6s to wound. Modifyers on the BS could works as well, but not modifyers to the hit roll though, since they have to be stackable with freebooterz trait.
I'd love a 4+ Save on Lootas but I'm not so sure about the 6s give AP-3, that's a very Eldar like ability. Perhaps something that synergizes with Dakka weapons where they can reroll Hits or reroll 1s when they are within half range.
2022/02/03 07:01:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: Looking at the new mission 12 "tear down their icon" a speed mob squad of 3 kbbs could be ideal "bomb layers/tertiary action monkeys" especially T1/T2 when they'll have little else to do. They're a nightmare to charge and can advance and do actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mission 23 "scouring" also has a tertiary action objective ideal with 5 objectives within close range of each other.
Actualy it' s pretty interesting topic. New missions comes with the quesfion, how to optimize our lists. We need to optimize to all of them however, not one of them.
KBBs are absolutely wrong unit for any action.They are too expensive. To do the actions you need CHEAP small hard to kill unit. Unit doing action cannot do dakka. And dakka is what matters. Maybe one model in multi detachement SpeedMob. 80-90p is the cheapest price tag in on the list…
Actually I did a stat, what kind of “4th Secondary” is in the new missions. See the the fast sheet with stylish ork glyph in on the picture
There are 4 aspects, that can be valid in each of the new missions - what should you do or what can happen.
1. Do the action. They are 3 - One of them gives ObSec finish on the end of the turn. One ends on the End of the turn, second in next command phase. If you play one detach Speed Mob, that sucks, you need another unit to do this or skip the Bitz.
2. Sticky Objective rewarding the obsec units (not sticky for not obsec)
3. Reward the killing of enemy units.
4. Reward the holding or overtaking the Objectives.
Conclusion - extra obsec unit for extra action and better objective play could be usefull. For example - change from the Wartrike to Warboss on Warbike (he' s got Obsec via Speed Mob and is smaller).
But if your game plan is to smash opponent down in T3 no matter what, that' s maybe not so crucial.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2022/02/03 08:31:40
CaptainO wrote: Looking at the new mission 12 "tear down their icon" a speed mob squad of 3 kbbs could be ideal "bomb layers/tertiary action monkeys" especially T1/T2 when they'll have little else to do. They're a nightmare to charge and can advance and do actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mission 23 "scouring" also has a tertiary action objective ideal with 5 objectives within close range of each other.
Actualy it' s pretty interesting topic. New missions comes with the quesfion, how to optimize our lists. We need to optimize to all of them however, not one of them.
KBBs are absolutely wrong unit for any action.They are too expensive. To do the actions you need CHEAP small hard to kill unit. Unit doing action cannot do dakka. And dakka is what matters. Maybe one model in multi detachement SpeedMob. 80-90p is the cheapest price tag in on the list…
Actually I did a stat, what kind of “4th Secondary” is in the new missions. See the the fast sheet with stylish ork glyph in on the picture
There are 4 aspects, that can be valid in each of the new missions - what should you do or what can happen.
1. Do the action. They are 3 - One of them gives ObSec finish on the end of the turn. One ends on the End of the turn, second in next command phase. If you play one detach Speed Mob, that sucks, you need another unit to do this or skip the Bitz.
2. Sticky Objective rewarding the obsec units (not sticky for not obsec)
3. Reward the killing of enemy units.
4. Reward the holding or overtaking the Objectives.
Conclusion - extra obsec unit for extra action and better objective play could be usefull. For example - change from the Wartrike to Warboss on Warbike (he' s got Obsec via Speed Mob and is smaller).
But if your game plan is to smash opponent down in T3 no matter what, that' s maybe not so crucial.
You can only do the "set bomb" action once a turn hence why I think the KBBs would be ideal T1/T2 as their going to be out of range with the majority of their guns (I've found that with reasonable terrain density it's tough to get LoS with their rivet gun early) if theyre not shooting then they might as well be doing an action. If targets become available in T2 then obviously let fly and switch units (my warboss on bike with redder armour and faster than yous who doesn't lose out by doing an action and has a 20" range).
I've found the speed mob super CP hungry so I'm currently running a solo detachment with an auxiliary for a second hq (starts with 9cp). This limits me to larger squads but If you're running multiple detachment with more MSUs your points are definitely valid.
I'm leaning into get the good Bitz and have found larger bike squads stay around longer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll also say because nobz on warbikes are so trash you're really limited to 5 max obsec units in a speedmob(unless you want to start with 2 CP). The deffkilla wartrike has gone up in my estimation as it can still claim engage whereas the warboss on bike can't. I totally agree it's not an optimal secondary for speedmobz but it's no harm having it as an option. His larger base is better for the ES fight last relic too (and any auras)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 17:55:18
2022/02/03 20:27:47
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I play Speed Mob too. One ES detach. Absolutely understand. So we hve the same starting point.
I was solving what´ s better HQ and you solved it - you took both. Interesting. Clever.
I have a stats how I spent the CPs and with no waste even with 12CP I ´m on 0 in T3 Gork, CP rerolls on number of Wazboom shots are so usefull! So burning 3 on another HQ…. To score the VPs … interesting.
However back to the topic - Nob Bikers are unbelievable trash, yes, but you can go 3x5 Koptas and 3x9 bikers and you are definitely out of points. Even more bikers will be more than the deployment can contain)
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, is your gameplan really about scoring the points?
My is more about makeing a preasure and killing. And blocking the other side from scoring. If the opponent score more than 40, than I did something wrong. Or he is significantly better….
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/03 20:36:33
You 100% on the space issue. Two planes and all those bike bases fill up the available area fast.
How have you found running 3*5 deffkoptas. The only reason I'm leaning towards a squad of 3 buggies (specifically KBBs) is that I can only protect two units of deffkoptas per turn using drive by and into the sun. My third "non bike" unit is going to be out in the open or not doing anything. Putting One deffkopta into reserves is a possibility but since I can only use ramming speed once in T2/t3 I'm relying on a 9" charge.
For a very similar price The KBBs give me an extra toughness and an extra 4 wounds. Another source of mortals is nice too (although don't get me started on custodes new 4+++ against mortals)
Don't get me wrong 5 bikes is always better than 3 KBB no argument from me. I just wonder about 3 of them rather than mixing it up for the 3rd choice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In terms of my game plan Ive been trying to create a bit of target saturation with get the good Bitz if I go first. All three bikes start GtGBs KBBs get into a threatening position for T2 and my two planes push up for a bit of alpha striking. I actually have been optimising their T1 location for shooting so much that they'll probably have to fly off T2. It basically means they're less of a threat so may end up being left alive.
Going second is a mare as invariably my opponent targets the two planes. With 9cp I'm much more inclined to reserve the planes if my opponent has scary anti air.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/03 23:12:50
2022/02/04 01:18:38
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I have hope one day they will fix nob bikers.. I mean I regularly feedback it to the rules team to fix it everytime something even remotely relevant comes up for it.
The current highest ranked undefeated ork list in 
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
