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So i think i have finalised my Speed Mob list for the upcoming tournament next weekend.
Because the double Deffkopta Evil Sunz list has been running out of CP in a lot of my test games and 1 Outrider with 6 FA slots were a bit too few for my taste i will go for the Blood Axes version.
Also i realised playing more than 1 Mob of Deffkoptas without Evil Sunz and maximum Buggies made Bring it Down far to easy while it made getting maximum secondary points much harder. Therefore i switched for a bit more Bikes - this will help a little with Good Bitz and Retrieve as more solid choices in case i run into a matchup with bad kill secondaries.

The List:

Da plan:

2/3 games i had to put my Wazboms in strategic reserve, tried to gamble a few times but lost both fliers twice. Not gonna do that in a tournament setting, thus the BA trait to safe me those 3 precious CP.
Overall the Warboss has been rather disappointing in Speed Mob, thats why i did`t go for a offensive trait and skipped the Killa Klaw. Might invest one CP for it but honestly i rarely missed it and that extra CP has been more usefull most of the time.

I love the Dakka of 3 Scrapjets, but they have proven to be the target number one besides Koptas and Wazboms. That means i have to play them far more defensivly, especially with the Koptas hiding and the Wazboms being in reserve or dead already. You do not want to be them one of your 3 TTL units, thats why i will go for 2 of them.
Maxing out TTL is more important than the extra output from #3. Also i managed to loose the 3rd Scrapjet to morale - not cool and you really don`t want to waste 2 CP for an autopass in Speed Mob.
So my 3 TTL units are the Squigbuggies, the Koptas and 1 Wazbom, and i managed to score it quite good.

I really like the Boosta Blastas MW`s and his anti infantry capacity, but i don`t feel thats something you really lack in Speed Mob, so i went for the Snazzwagon and his native -1 to hit, which has helped to keep him alive a little longer in some cases. Anything that helps you scoring Engage a little longer is good. And i know, it might not be the best secondary for the low unit number count, but i ended up with Engage 2/3 games so everything that helpes with that is good i guess. Scoring 10 VP is quite duable and if things run smooth a scored above 12 VP as well which was more in almost every game if i compare the outcome with possible other secondaries.

The Dragsta is a great objective grabber and adds a lot with his tellyporting and reliable shooting. I tried to free 15 points as much as possible for squighide tires, so he has a little more reach for those midfield objectives.

The Bikers are solid. A little bigger squads have helped a lot for durability and they tend to soak up lots of dakka.

Squigbuggies still do what they did before, not gonna leave them behind. Besides lots of chipping damage they have proven to help a lot with primary scoring as they are really good in deleting MSU campers. The only 2 times the last 10 games i lost them were the 2 games i actually got tabled, so solid 5 TTL points as well.

CP wise I´ll start with 8 and get another 5 in game and about 2 for thinkin Cap, that will leave me with about 14-15 overall and i guess 10-12 for the first 3 turns, as 2 of the 3 missions tinker with CP.


Gonna have a game against the new Tau Tuesday and have to send in my list thursday, so theres still a little room left for last minute tweaking.
Might leave 1 Biker to go for 5 + 5 + 3 or leave the non-TTL`s Wazboms KFF and take squighide tires for the Dragsta instead and / or spend 1 more CP on Killa Klaw.

Interesting! I go totaly oposite direction on local RTT with my Speed Mob!


I focus more on the the fast moving to the right place and killing the right stuff in the right moment. More to deny the scoring.

The most elite list I' ve every played I guess

We can compare on the end the results.

Few points
- I keep Wazbooms as cheap as possible, never take the Supa shootas. Wounds per point ratio.
- I had a very bad experience in makeing wazbooms TTL. Never survived
- agree with the warboss - both hq options are supporting characters and objective grabers. That is all.
- my list is very much formed by what models I' m actualy able to finish. The best setting will have propably the warboss and one more biker.
- I have a good experience in unbalanced warbiker mobs. You know - if we invest in advance&charge trait and have a strategem to boost them in charge and deal a MW in charge, do it properly - so in the max squad. On the other hand, some objective / action scoring units can benefit from being smaller. And why waste the points on unit sitting and doing the bitz.

In my test games i basically ran the same list you posted with ES. Well, there isn`t much variance tbh if you go for a single Outrider.^^
But overall my BA games went better than my ES games, allthough it has not been by a big margin.

- I keep Wazbooms as cheap as possible, never take the Supa shootas. Wounds per point ratio.

Yeah they are totally fine as "cheap" source of antitank, but i really like the flexibility to kill MSU stuff in hiding or snipe a weak character with those 12 shots.
Also its a nice backup to finish something off that your other big guns failed to kill completely.
I`d say its not mandatory and it won`t do much most of the time, but just one character kill or a cleared objective can make the difference.
The supa shootas are the first thing i cut if i need to free up 10-40 points though.

- I had a very bad experience in makeing wazbooms TTL. Never survived

Yeah i would never build a list that had two Wazboms as TTL units. But 1 can sneak in later and survive, just alpha strike the most dangerous anti tank stuff early on.
But depends on opponent and army list.

- I have a good experience in unbalanced warbiker mobs. You know - if we invest in advance&charge trait and have a strategem to boost them in charge and deal a MW in charge, do it properly - so in the max squad. On the other hand, some objective / action scoring units can benefit from being smaller. And why waste the points on unit sitting and doing the bitz.

True. ES like at least one squad of 9. Otherwise 1-2 x 5 is a good backup plan for Retrieve i guess.
3 x 3 can work on Good Bitz, depends a bit on the mission and the objective. With BA i really liked 3 x 4-5. Some extra resilience but still small enough to sneak around, do actions and have enough Dakka / melee to hurt something small.

Would lootas be viable in a trukk with a nob with waagh banner or some other trukk boy character to activate it?

So 10 lootas, 1 trukk boy character. Reduced price and they hit on 4s now due to faq clearing up things.

I dont think so but what do you think?

Or the other way around, maybe 10 cheap boys that stays in the trukk standing on an objective, and a shokk attack gun inside of it that hits on 3s? Or a big mek in mega armor.

You can only make Boys, Nobs or a Warboss Trukkboys, sadly not Big Meks.
So the cheapest version would be 70 points for a Banner Nob, 70 for the Trukk und another 150 for the lootas. So 290 for 16 shots (24 in 24")
Even with +1 to hit i don`t see this being competetive, same for Flash Gits.
Might be fun to get yourself a 3+ Shock Attack Gun just for the lols but otherwise skip.

The only thing close to competetive might be to get a Ded shiny shoota or Straight shoota in the fun as well to drive around and snipe on 3+.
Or maybe some Tankbustas to hit vehicles on 4+ on the move?

Yes i made a mistake. Which i have edited out.

But I still remain unsure about whether -1ap is a modifier. Like, whats classified as a modifier? Because with the trukk boy clarifications and -1ap given to infantry in vehicles (which i dont know but maybe?) Then at least an infantry shooting list could be a semi competitive thing. Maybe?

Waaaghpower wrote:
On the subject of general 9th changes - It seems like Orks got major buffs across the board, excepting certain OP/cheese (and probably unintended) comboes like Loota Bombs.

Is my impression correct? And what are other armies looking like - was this done to bring Orks in line with factions like Space Marines, or did everyone get similar buffs?

Generally speaking, most ork units received pretty nice upgrades in their data sheets while losing a lot of benefits in stratagems. For the most part our stratagems are bad. However, a few units did not receive these upgrades and in fact took a lot of nerfs. Boyz and grots took it on the chin pretty heavily. Boyz went up to 9ppm, gained +1T but Mob rule is functionally useless, Ere We Go got nerfed, lost +1 to attack in large mobz, the buffs they usually took got significantly worse (KFF, Painboy, stratagems are completely gone, Weirdboy got heavily nerfed in terms of reliability, Evil Sunz losing +1 to charge etc) Grots...well, they got +1T but they went up to 5ppm and lost obsec. They are arguably the worst troops unit in the entire game, with their only selling point being an MSU troop tax will only run you 50pts as opposed to boyz who aren't much better at 90.

As far as the loota bomb, that was effectively killed in 8th when they changed mob rule to only impact boyz. All subsequent nerfs to lootas has been knee jerk reactions by the same crowd of muppets that were screaming to nerf Buggies, kommandos and Beastboss on Squigies. AKA, anytime orkz have anything competitive, the meta freaks out and screams nerfs. Drukhari/Ad-Mech have been dominating for most of 9th, but have received minor nerfs, Orkz won 1 GT and the entire community freaked to the point where we got a patch nerf.

Going into shootas. They did not receive a buff. No matter what "play testers" and "experts" in 40k say, they did not receive a buff and if they say they did you can safely ignore anything that person has to say about Orkz.

Shoota boyz went from Assault 2 18' range to Dakka 3(2) 18' range. So now they can't advance and shoot and to get that "bonus" +1 attack at BS5 they have to get within 9' of their target. Boyz are Movement 5, they are slow. They want to be advancing, now they can't and shoot. Furthermore, even if you do get them into 9' range to shoot, you would have been better off advancing that turn and using Choppas to assault instead. 10 Shoota boyz in dakka range do 10 hits, 5 wounds and 1.6dmg to a Marine. So not even 1 guaranteed Dead Marine. On the flipside of that, if you gave up shootas and advanced with choppas 10 choppa boyz get 30 attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg to a Marine, or 2.5 dead Marines. if its a WAAAGH turn that goes up to 40 attacks, 26.6 hits, 13.3 wounds and 6.7dmg for 3dead Marines and change.

To put it more bluntly, Shootas suck and anyone who says otherwise is lying or in need of a refresher on basic math.

Beardedragon wrote:
Would lootas be viable in a trukk with a shokk attack gun, big mek in mega armor, nob with waagh banner or someone Else as trukk boys to activate it?
So 10 lootas, 1 trukk boy character. Reduced price and they hit on 4s now due to faq clearing up things.
I dont think so but what do you think?

No. 10 lootas is now 150pts, the cheapest character that can be a "Trukk Boy" is Nob with Banner. Thats 70pts, the trukk is 70pts. So you are paying 290pts to get 8 lootas BS4 which works out to 8-12 hits a turn depending on range. That just isn't worth it.

I think the best combo/wombo for this would still be inefficient for its required points cost. Cheapest I can think off the top of my head to make this work is the banner nob and trukk so you are talking about adding 140pts to a shooting unit to buff its hit rate by 50%. Just isn't worth it.

You make a good point about the cost

 Grotrebel wrote:
So i think i have finalised my Speed Mob list for the upcoming tournament next weekend.
Because the double Deffkopta Evil Sunz list has been running out of CP in a lot of my test games and 1 Outrider with 6 FA slots were a bit too few for my taste i will go for the Blood Axes version.
Also i realised playing more than 1 Mob of Deffkoptas without Evil Sunz and maximum Buggies made Bring it Down far to easy while it made getting maximum secondary points much harder. Therefore i switched for a bit more Bikes - this will help a little with Good Bitz and Retrieve as more solid choices in case i run into a matchup with bad kill secondaries.

The List:

Spoiler:

2 Outriders / 8 CP
Warboss on Bike (I`ve got a plan lads)
Wartrike (Warlord, Speed King, Finkin`Cap)
3 Squigbuggies
2 Scrapjets
1 Shokkjump Dragsta
1 Snazzwagon
5 Koptas
5 Bikers
5 Bikers
4 Bikers
2 Wazboms (both fully equipped)

Da plan:

2/3 games i had to put my Wazboms in strategic reserve, tried to gamble a few times but lost both fliers twice. Not gonna do that in a tournament setting, thus the BA trait to safe me those 3 precious CP.
Overall the Warboss has been rather disappointing in Speed Mob, thats why i did`t go for a offensive trait and skipped the Killa Klaw. Might invest one CP for it but honestly i rarely missed it and that extra CP has been more usefull most of the time.

I love the Dakka of 3 Scrapjets, but they have proven to be the target number one besides Koptas and Wazboms. That means i have to play them far more defensivly, especially with the Koptas hiding and the Wazboms being in reserve or dead already. You do not want to be them one of your 3 TTL units, thats why i will go for 2 of them.
Maxing out TTL is more important than the extra output from #3. Also i managed to loose the 3rd Scrapjet to morale - not cool and you really don`t want to waste 2 CP for an autopass in Speed Mob.
So my 3 TTL units are the Squigbuggies, the Koptas and 1 Wazbom, and i managed to score it quite good.

I really like the Boosta Blastas MW`s and his anti infantry capacity, but i don`t feel thats something you really lack in Speed Mob, so i went for the Snazzwagon and his native -1 to hit, which has helped to keep him alive a little longer in some cases. Anything that helps you scoring Engage a little longer is good. And i know, it might not be the best secondary for the low unit number count, but i ended up with Engage 2/3 games so everything that helpes with that is good i guess. Scoring 10 VP is quite duable and if things run smooth a scored above 12 VP as well which was more in almost every game if i compare the outcome with possible other secondaries.

The Dragsta is a great objective grabber and adds a lot with his tellyporting and reliable shooting. I tried to free 15 points as much as possible for squighide tires, so he has a little more reach for those midfield objectives.

The Bikers are solid. A little bigger squads have helped a lot for durability and they tend to soak up lots of dakka.

Squigbuggies still do what they did before, not gonna leave them behind. Besides lots of chipping damage they have proven to help a lot with primary scoring as they are really good in deleting MSU campers. The only 2 times the last 10 games i lost them were the 2 games i actually got tabled, so solid 5 TTL points as well.

CP wise I´ll start with 8 and get another 5 in game and about 2 for thinkin Cap, that will leave me with about 14-15 overall and i guess 10-12 for the first 3 turns, as 2 of the 3 missions tinker with CP.


Gonna have a game against the new Tau Tuesday and have to send in my list thursday, so theres still a little room left for last minute tweaking.
Might leave 1 Biker to go for 5 + 5 + 3 or leave the non-TTL`s Wazboms KFF and take squighide tires for the Dragsta instead and / or spend 1 more CP on Killa Klaw.

Very interested in how BLOOD AXES fair with a speed mob. I've found the melee warbikes underwhelming and binned the KILLa klaw too. Have you ever managed to keep wazbomm alive for TTL?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Yes i made a mistake. Which i have edited out.

But I still remain unsure about whether -1ap is a modifier. Like, whats classified as a modifier? Because with the trukk boy clarifications and -1ap given to infantry in vehicles (which i dont know but maybe?) Then at least an infantry shooting list could be a semi competitive thing. Maybe?

I was hoping the same but the new rules specify "modify dice rolls" so speed waaagh doesn't look like it's effects passengers. Its still terribly worded. (Additional-1ap technically does modify a roll made when a ranged attack is made i.e. the save roll has to be 1 higher) the rules even state "modifier to hit roll, wound roll, etc" what is the etc!?!?!

Goonhammer seem to think not but again theyre in no way infallible (my mates and I do tend to blanket play their interpretation as it removes any ambiguity) still it would be nice if GW just made stuff clearer.

Very interested in how BLOOD AXES fair with a speed mob. I've found the melee warbikes underwhelming and binned the KILLa klaw too. Have you ever managed to keep wazbomm alive for TTL?

Yeah the Warbikes are more of an utility unit than real damage dealers. If no terrain or extra defensive buffs are involved they will do about 10-12 wounds to infantry which isn`t bad, but as soon as hit modifiers, light cover or stuff like storm shields get involved their damage shrinks by a lot.
For me they are a distraction unit that gets to do engage or score otherwise while soaking up damage and occasionally killing stuff.
I really wish they would update the Warboss on Bike and Nob Bikers so you could get +1 to hit in melee and actually build a fun and more melee heavy Speed Mob.

About TTL on the Wazbom, it actually has. But to be fair, thats mostly in games that are decided by turn 2-3 when the Speed Mob has dealt too much damage for the opponent to recover and deal back any meaningfull damage.
There have been closer games though, in which i held back the TTL Wazbom until turn 3 because there was too much good antitank left turn 2.
But since my lists always have at least 1 non-TTL Wazbom i can get that one salvo of Dakka for sure before the other one arrives.
Sure thats 2 turns of not shooting but on the other hand you can counter other reserves and it will (probably) pay off with 5 VP.
I play often against Necs and he likes to put fliers and heavy Destroyers in reserve too, so in that case coming in turn 3, especially if i go second is quite an advantage.

I still think it`s the best TTL combination for BA. ES is a no brainer with Drive by dakka and 2 squads of Koptas.
Da Boomer with 4 BS and Lobba gets you to 195 points, so you could go for Koptas, Squigbuggies and him and just yeet your Wazboms in, but he won`t have an invul unless you go for a regular Gunwagon with Forktress, but thats some really bad shooting you`re getting for 200 points.

What’s TTL?

DoktaRoksta wrote:
What’s TTL?

To the Last, which is a secondary objective you can take where you get 5 VP for each unit of the 3 most expensive units in your army that survives till the very end of the game.

 Grimskul wrote:

DoktaRoksta wrote:
What’s TTL?

To the Last, which is a secondary objective you can take where you get 5 VP if your 3 most expensive units survive till the very end of the game.

Thanks

SemperMortis wrote:


No. 10 lootas is now 150pts, the cheapest character that can be a "Trukk Boy" is Nob with Banner. Thats 70pts, the trukk is 70pts. So you are paying 290pts to get 8 lootas BS4 which works out to 8-12 hits a turn depending on range. That just isn't worth it.

I think the best combo/wombo for this would still be inefficient for its required points cost. Cheapest I can think off the top of my head to make this work is the banner nob and trukk so you are talking about adding 140pts to a shooting unit to buff its hit rate by 50%. Just isn't worth it.

Yeah, the nob can have the shiny shoota which adds some firepower, although it's kinda wasted on a BS5+ guy. But 290 points is basically 3 scrapjets which are overall at least 2x more resilient than lootas and banner nob in a trukk, have actual melee ability and fire way more shots, also quality ones.

I'm currently struggling with secondaries. I play freebooterz speedwaaagh (not army of renown) with MSU. Most expensive units are a pair of scrapjets, kannonwagon and the 2x5 warbikes. So no good options for TTL. I'm not a fan of Good Bitz as well, since I prefer mid sized units of bikes to min ones. Retrieve isn't the autotake it used to be, now it doesn't seem to pay much. I'll keep engage though, and typically a secondary that I pick is a kill based one.

 kingbbobb wrote:

EmperorForearm wrote:
Rare Rules Shooting While Embarked #9 Transports under the effects of a dice roll modifier bestow the modifier to the embarked units ranged attacks.

Trukk Boy warboss inside trukk with lootas, flash gits etc unit now officially buffs the shooty unit.

lol no they do not, the restrictions are part of the modifier.

Example ability = +1 to hit for models in this unit armed with heavy weapons

If applied to a transport the transport gets +1 to hit for heavy weapons and so do embarked models with heavy weapons - models with assault weapons do not. The restriction in this case is the unit has to be armed with heavy weapons

For trukk boys the ability = TRUKK model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack’s hit roll. The restriction in this case is the unit has to be a trukk.

so no +1 unless that embarked unit is another trukk

The Trukk Boyz rule says "each time that Trukk model makes a ranged attack, add 1 to that attack's hit roll." This means that all ranged hit rolls made by the trukk are under an effect that modifies a dice roll when making a ranged attack [add 1 to that attack's hit roll].

The rare rule says "If a Transport model is under the effects of an ability which would apply a modifier to a dice roll made when making a ranged attack..."

I'm am still not 100% about exactly which disembark after move charges are allowed and which aren't, but the above seems super clear to me. Am I missing something?

Participated in a small 500 pt tourney with this list:

Deathskullz
Warboss (bbk, trukkboyz, killaklaw, k-skorcha, attack squig)
Big mek (-1 to wound, tellyporta, kmb with +1 shot, k rushing armor)
10 grots
2 meks
Skrapjet
Trukk (5++)

1st game was vs csm with termi-lord, shooty contemptor, obliterator, and around 10 csm with plasma.
Csm got 1st turn but shooting didn't go too well as I managed to hide from an obliterator. He just put 4 wounds into a skrapjet and 2 into a trukk. In return, orks shot down contemptor and one minimek managed to one-shot the obliterator thanks to 4+ from trukkboss and deathskull re rolls. Csm dealt another 4 wounds to a skrapjet and charged a trukk, almost surrounding it - but thanks to some terrain, there was enough place left to disembark boss, fall back with a trukk and finish csm off. If only he rolled 6+ to charge instead of 4, he'd surround a trukk and i'd have to emergency disembark meks and boss - and due to it being close to table edge, most of them would have been destroyed.
So, I lucked out after a positioning error and managed to win 55-0 (max score).

Next game was vs nihilakh neceons with a chronomancer with some 3+d3 shooty weapon, 10 immortals, 3scarabs, 3 skorpekh mellee robots and 5 deathmarks.
Necrons got 1st turn but didn't deal any damage cause orks managed to hide well and he just performed some mission actions instead. Skorpekhs teleported close to a skrapjet but didn't make a charge. Orks, in return, made a long-ass move with a trukkboss towards immortals, shot down all 3 skorpechs, even though, 1 of them managed to get up in the process - but skrapjet and 3 meks were enough to pound them to the ground. Skrapjet charged and killed his chronomancer and boss burned down 2 immortals with his flamer and than precisely 8 more with a help of bbk squig and klaw. After that, necrons scored a bit more and got wiped out.
55-11, orks win.

3d game was vs new tau with a very frightening crysis commander with a mellee gauntlet and mellee flamer that put ork bosses to pure shame. He rocks 4 s12 ap4 damage 3 attacks and additional 2+d6 s4 ap2 attacks - all hitting on 3+ with full re-rolls to-hit and to-wound. Furthermore, he's accompanied by 2 shield drones that are a part of the squad with 4++ and 2 wounds, and has an in-built 4++ himself. Also, his shooting is not much worse with the same 2+d6 non-autohitting s4 ap2 flamer, burst cannon and...something else. Hitting on 2+, of course with full re-rolls and extra ap when close to the enemy. Also, there was a sky ray that's also frightening with 2 markers, SMS and d3+1 s9 ap(a lot) rockets with 2d3 damage with some in-built to-hit, to-wound re-rolls. A devilfish and around 10 fire warriors.
Luckilly, orks went first. As the only way to win vs such overwhelming firepower with frightening mellee was an alpha-strike, we went for it. Trukkboss performed an impressive leap of faith towards a crysis commander managing to hide out of Los to not go down to overwatch yet remaining close enough to charge - and being a infantry, was able to move through a ruin on this charge move. Shooting killed a single drone and put 3 wounds into a devilfish. Boss charged commander and a skyray and killed a drone but...commander passed all 6 4++ saves he was forced to take. But here went brutal but cunning - with 6 more saves to take and now he failed 2 and died. Skrapjet deals a bunch of wounds to a devilfish in mellee leaving it with just 2. Skyray shoots boss down in mellee, fire warriors inflict 4 wounds to a trukk, skyray shoots a couple of wounds off a skrapjet but gets smashed in return. Ork turn comes and Tau get shot down with kustom mega blastas and skrapjet rokkits and finished off in mellee. The outliner was one of the mini meks - being a sniper that he is - shooting 8 wounds off a skyray.
55-0 orks win the tourney.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Trukkboyz warboss wad surprisingly good. He performed looooong charges, killed things with his klaw and squig and even sometimes buffed those meks.

Mini meks with their kustom mega sluggas are awesome units - especially run as deathskulls. Underrated by a long margin. They are hilarioisly swingy with their shooting but a 25 pt model that one-shots an obliterator, skorpekh or takes 8 wounds off a skyray is gold. Yeah, 12" radius but trukk helps. And they also score and perform actions, which is extremely importsntand, and can fix your vehicles from time to time. It'll be interesting to run them in larger games if I get enough elite slots.

Some games agains new Tau.

They are perfect to kill our Speedmobs /Vehicles

- ignore -1 to hit
- S8 weapons like antitank
- S6 weapons like standard

Hell this will be a hard nut!

Kill the characters.
Hide as much as possible to DS.

 Tomsug wrote:
Some games agains new Tau.

They are perfect to kill our Speedmobs /Vehicles

- ignore -1 to hit
- S8 weapons like antitank
- S6 weapons like standard

Hell this will be a hard nut!

Kill the characters.
Hide as much as possible to DS.

They ignore -1!?!?! Uhoh

Played my first game in Peru against guard today. Dominated 97-40 as -1 causes them serious issues. Only dropped 3 points on get the good bits. I'm wondering with 3 squads of 8 warbikers if retrieve octarius data would be a better call. GtGBs is tough to max if the opponent has even one model on an objective. Objectives tend to be out in the open too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kooaei those deffskuls mini Meks in a trukk Boyz trukk with their +1 to hit (rerolling) could actually finally make them useful.

i dont think tau have easy access to ignoring modifiers on its own but they went back to the old markerlight system so they can very easily get +2 to hit to offset it.
Also Markerlights arent a shot anymore so they dont care about -1 to hit.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont think tau have easy access to ignoring modifiers on its own but they went back to the old markerlight system so they can very easily get +2 to hit to offset it.
Also Markerlights arent a shot anymore so they dont care about -1 to hit.

Yeah, markerlights are quite straight forward and hard to stop besides killing the platform using them now. I feel like an alphork strike list is probably one of the better things to use against Tau because you want to pen them in their deployment and tag stuff before they have a chance to set up firing lanes and nuke our units with their superior firepower.

CaptainO wrote:

Kooaei those deffskuls mini Meks in a trukk Boyz trukk with their +1 to hit (rerolling) could actually finally make them useful.

Technically, they were shooting at bs 5 most of the time cause boss wanted to use that klaw ASAP. But deff skull rerolls were enough to make those kustom mega sluggas frightening for the opponent. It's a totally legit tactic in a smaller game - need to try it in larger ones.

Anyway, if anyone was searching for a way to utilise a trukkboy nob combo, mini meks are a good place to look. They kill way above their points and are not a waste to hop out of a trukk to score or perform an action. The problem is 12" range. Maybe a trukk could use the +1 movement upgrade. Or you could run it as evil suns, place a lot of shooty stuff inside, roll up the field, shoot those bs4 sluggas and than flee behind blos with move after shooting. Or get wherever you need it the most with double movement. But no re-rolls for evil suns, unfortunately.

Well, Tau…

- they have marketalight +1to hit ignoring hit modifiers because it' s not shooting as Vineheard said
- they have an HQ aura to ignore the hit modifiers. Pretty big so more or lesy (half) army wide. That is related to my note “kill the HQs” because they give not only this, but couple of other buffs too. Last time it was at least ignore hit mofiers, full reroll on wound, rerrol 1 on hit and there was some another +1 to hit too.

CaptainO Bloodaxe scenarie “put the wazbooms” in DS is essential. Put half of the army into DS. Because if they go first, they shoot a lot down. They have free advance & remain stationary for shooting and can make automatic 6” advance on some units. And their bigger guns shoots about 30-36, 60”… so if go second, they get in range. So keep the heads down.

They basic troops - breacher warriors - shoots also pretty good.

They lack invu, but they have a lot of bodies /drons so a lot of wounds to kill.

Sometime - Start shooting with the weakes of your weapons is a good idea, drons works like single use grot shield. It' s a pitty if they dron out your wazboom D3+3 damage.

So my plan for the nextime is duck and and commit everything to kill their antitank castle and hope, it will be enough.

In any case, I don' t have a feeling, the new Tau are nonsence. Just strong new codex aiming on my soft spots. Yet…

If only you could make your big mek a trukkboy. One could dream.

Well Tau Don't ignore hit modifiers overall besides 1 unit that gets nominated by the regular Commander in the command phase.

The Markerlight gives +1 to hit, but its a one use token, so if he has 4 markerlights that's just 4 units that get to use it.
The Farsight "Sept" counts as having a markerlight in 12" though, so keep that in mind as it will probably be Farsight or Tau Sept 90% the time you face tau.

There are multiple ways for Tau to get +1 to hit ans get rerolls though, but it's limited and sometimes costs them one of their support hard points and in same cases it's limited to shooting units with fly.


Overall Tau isn't so bad for us. They lost the massed Overwatch and the Drone Shenanigans.
They can sacrifice 1 Drone once with a strat, otherwise the drones are just part of the unit with the shield Drone being 4++ but no further tools like FNP.

BS wise Commanders are 2+, Longstrike and Marksman (Marker dude with weak sniping) are 3+ and most of the rest is still 4+.
So all the suits and tanks will hit no better than 3+ with a Marker light, but Cloud of smoke + dense terrain can still get that down to a 5+.
So utilise cloud of Smoke, Warbikers and Dense terrain as much as possible.

There are however 2 strats for suits, one full hit reroll and a Sept locked one for full hit and wound rerolls.
Shadowsun is a Chapter master now and Commanders work like captains.


They have lots of weapons that fire without LOS.
Mainly the SMS with 30" 4/8 × S5 AP1 (Broadsides and Vehicles) and 24" D6 S4 AP1 on the Crisis.


In addition Tau have access to multiple sources of +1 to wound / reroll wound rolls of 1 / get extra AP.

Almost no MWs though.


Other things to look out for:


Devilfish & Breacher combo.
If he goes for Montka he can Pregame move them 9" and use a strat to disembark after moving with up to 3 squads.
So 9 + 12 + 3 = 24" Those will mostly be 10 Breachers with 20 shots S5 AP 2 in 14" or 20 Shots S6 AP4 in 8".
So take care of the Devilfish (T7, 13 wounds but no invul), but if they get you even with buffs they won't kill more than 1 Buggy.

Broadsides and Hammerheads have no invul, so take then out quickly with your quality shots.
Crisis can have a 4++ defensive system for 5 points but just 4 wounds T5.
Except some relics you will see no damage reduction, so any hits will hurt them. Broadsides have 8 wounds so Wazbom is your best friend.

Ethereals are basically Chaplains now, the 3 buffs to look out for are:
1 extra CP, 5+++ on 1 core unit and shoot + actions.
If you have the chance, take him out. Squishy git.

The (named) Commanders can all have good defensive tools, so only commit to them of you can kill them.
Mostly 4++ or 5++, a 5+++ Relic and a few options to reduce (the first) damage + 1 Drone safe once.

The Crisis (or jetpack units) and Pathfinders both have a strike and fade strat after doing their thing.


And yes, Tau have good antitank, but they feel more like glasscannons now that the stupid Drone mechanic is gone.
Besides battlesuits shooting in cc and one neat melee relic they still suck in close combat.
There is a upgrade for free overwatch and 1 guy hitting on 5+ though plus some mean flamers but it's still just one Overwatch overall, it's just CP free if the unit has this upgrade.

Some battlesuit strats are cheaper on 3 models, so if you face multiple large crisis squads it might be good to reduce all of them to 4 models to keep the strats expensive and after that take out whole squads.

Overall I think Tau are ok as opponent. Keep your good stuff save and fokus down long range antitank and tyose breachers.
Tau will evaporate if you get to shoot back mid range.

 Grotrebel wrote:

Because the double Deffkopta Evil Sunz list has been running out of CP in a lot of my test games and 1 Outrider with 6 FA slots were a bit too few for my taste i will go for the Blood Axes version.

I have a question - How are you able to get more CP' s from Blood Axe double detach than from ES single detach?

ES single detach = 12CP

BA double detach 12-3 (second outrider or -2 auxiliery) - 1 for Big Boss for second character and maybe -1 second relic? + 2,5 CPs in average for Cap and let' s say 2,5 CP as a sale for cheaper Attack out of da sun (2-3x per game save 1CP) = 12CP. You can get 1-2 more if you skip Big Boss and second relic.

I was hoping you can save more on BA trait but only other strategem you will use is Tellyporta and you can' t use the trait on it because

Strategem sayis : “Use this strategem during deployment”
Trait sayis: “once per battle round… while warlord is on the battlefield” - that is not during deployment.

Or do I miss something?

I 'm thinking about BA single detach farming list working with aprox 17+5 CPs per battle, but I' m not sure…. the koptas are koptas, I like them but they need the Driven by dakka….

And thanks for the more inside Tau report! Very useful!

In my math I was also counting the 3 CP I save for putting the 2 Wazboms in strategic reserve for free with "I've got a plan lads" as I will do that in 9 / 10 cases in a competitive setting.
Also ES cost me 1 more CP / turn for drive by dakka.

So ES start with 9 after reserves, while BA start with 8 (both lists run a Speed King Wartrike) because of the second detachment and the extra WL trait.
Thus BA end up with 8-13 CP averaging 10 which is 1 more plus the ones a safe for not using Drive by dakka on top of attack outta sun.

ES can do mono detachment Speed Mob a little better than BA, but if you really want 7+ FA slots ES will end up with 6. (Again, counting the 3 CP for reserve)
Mono detachment ES without reserves will still be my favourite speaking about whats more effective, but that's not a thing I see happening often. (For me at least.)

One could squeeze all BA stuff in one detachment for maximum CP, but in my games the lack of flexibility and not having the 2 Kopta squads made this version just not good enough.

Good thing is, all the versions above as well as the Freebooters one seem good and valid to me, so I guess that's a win.
Pre-CA my favourite was 1 ES + 1 BA outrider to get the best out of two worlds, but that's out of the picture now.

Aah! Clever! Now I understand.

You're definitely making making me ponder blood axes. Evil sunz ability to advance and charge a squad of warbikes t1 could be clutch against tau though.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont think tau have easy access to ignoring modifiers on its own but they went back to the old markerlight system so they can very easily get +2 to hit to offset it.
Also Markerlights arent a shot anymore so they dont care about -1 to hit.

Yeah, markerlights are quite straight forward and hard to stop besides killing the platform using them now. I feel like an alphork strike list is probably one of the better things to use against Tau because you want to pen them in their deployment and tag stuff before they have a chance to set up firing lanes and nuke our units with their superior firepower.

Fast Goff pressure with thier anti vehicle bonuses maybe evilsun speedmob where a 9x war biker unit first turn charging can do some damage with the 5+ invul and cloud of smoke shenanigans. Overall I don’t think tau are that bad when playing msu. I mean I’d hate to be playing knights right now vs them.

 Grotrebel wrote:
In my math I was also counting the 3 CP I save for putting the 2 Wazboms in strategic reserve for free with "I've got a plan lads" as I will do that in 9 / 10 cases in a competitive setting.
Also ES cost me 1 more CP / turn for drive by dakka.

So ES start with 9 after reserves, while BA start with 8 (both lists run a Speed King Wartrike) because of the second detachment and the extra WL trait.
Thus BA end up with 8-13 CP averaging 10 which is 1 more plus the ones a safe for not using Drive by dakka on top of attack outta sun.

ES can do mono detachment Speed Mob a little better than BA, but if you really want 7+ FA slots ES will end up with 6. (Again, counting the 3 CP for reserve)
Mono detachment ES without reserves will still be my favourite speaking about whats more effective, but that's not a thing I see happening often. (For me at least.)

One could squeeze all BA stuff in one detachment for maximum CP, but in my games the lack of flexibility and not having the 2 Kopta squads made this version just not good enough.

Good thing is, all the versions above as well as the Freebooters one seem good and valid to me, so I guess that's a win.
Pre-CA my favourite was 1 ES + 1 BA outrider to get the best out of two worlds, but that's out of the picture now.

It' s maybe even better. Wazbooms has power rating 10. Puting them in reserves should cost 2CP per unit. So It' s at least 4CP + you can put there one more unit for free so it' s maybe 5-6CP. Isn't it?