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popisdead wrote:
I have about 30 Stormboyz, and mmm possibly upwards of 15 ish bikes (maybe more after converting)?

Are Stormboyz good in Deathskullz but Warbikers better in any list?

Is that a fair assumption?

Looking to where I can apply my painting effort more.

thanks kindly.

exactly what Tomsug said. I experimented with Stormboyz briefly. I actually really love the model and the fluff behind them...to the point where I own like 75 of them Not kidding.

The biggest problem you have with Stormboyz is what they effectively are....boyz. Boyz suck or a few reasons. #1 is morale/durability #2 is mobility and #3 is dmg output. Stormboyz address #2 very well, but they don't address #1 very well unless you take MSU but then you have more problems with #3 Dmg output.

Stormboyz are 2ppm more expensive than boyz, but they die as easily to any enemy fire. The best thing you can do with these guys is use them to retrieve secondaries, but thats about it.

Warbikes on the other hand are Great at #1 and #2 but suck even worse at #3. The beauty about warbikes though is that they are ridiculously durable for their points cost. 25ppm gets you 3 T5 wounds with a 4+ save and -1 to hit. They are a great unit to tarpit things and to gun down light infantry left exposed. Don't expect them to ever do real dmg, but otherwise they work great.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper, I really want to see the results!

Do you know, what does this do to costodes list? Are you able to krump them? KMK are the only ones with the really right profile, but they will be dead turn 2 via custodes bikers.

Sec… what? No idea what are you speaking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormboyz dies on stiff breeze. That is their main problem.

Warbikers are on the other side very good in wound per point ratio. And with the -1 to hit even harder to kill. I don' t say it' s hard to kill them, but man have to use a real power. 5 Stormboyz will be shot down by 10 guardsman with lasguns.

However, I' m surprised, you skipped the third Trukkboyz. Kommandos price rise and new CA with the mission nerfing the pre-game move, I expected you will skip some Kommandos and make even bigger accent on the Trukks

Custodes are going to be a challenge. I'm hoping I can just swamp them with units until they die. Their biggest weakness is my armies biggest strength Lots and lots of CC attacks that don't care about receiving return dmg. I can't wait for my warboss on warbike to krump their biggest meanest unit

As far as losing the 3rd trukkboyz mob. I had to make sacrifices somewhere, and realistically while a Trukkboyz unit is a good alpha strike unit, it doesn't do much dmg, Kommandos on the other hand....do work.

10 trukkboyz cost 160pts, on a WAAAGH turn thats 9 boyz swinging at S4 with 4 attacks each hitting on 3s -1AP. Against a Marine profile that 160pt investment nets me 24 hits, 12 wounds and 6dmg the nob brings in 4 hits, 2.6 wounds and 1.33dmg.

10 Kommandos cost me 125pts same WAAAGH, 9 kommando boyz swinging at S5 with 4 attacks each hitting on 3s -1AP +1 to wound, exploding 6s gets me 30 hits, 25 wounds and 12.5dmg the Nob gets 4 attacks, 2.6 hits, 2.2 wounds and 1.85 unsaved wounds for 3.7dmg.

Durability wise, its been my experience that 10 kommandos hiding in cover getting 3+ saves are both more durable and more annoying than a T6 trukk in the open. especially against top lists which bring all the wonderful D3+3 lascannons/blasters/lances etc.

SemperMortis wrote:

popisdead wrote:
I have about 30 Stormboyz, and mmm possibly upwards of 15 ish bikes (maybe more after converting)?


As far as losing the 3rd trukkboyz mob. I had to make sacrifices somewhere, and realistically while a Trukkboyz unit is a good alpha strike unit, it doesn't do much dmg, Kommandos on the other hand....do work.

10 trukkboyz cost 160pts, on a WAAAGH turn thats 9 boyz swinging at S4 with 4 attacks each hitting on 3s -1AP. Against a Marine profile that 160pt investment nets me 24 hits, 12 wounds and 6dmg the nob brings in 4 hits, 2.6 wounds and 1.33dmg.

10 Kommandos cost me 125pts same WAAAGH, 9 kommando boyz swinging at S5 with 4 attacks each hitting on 3s -1AP +1 to wound, exploding 6s gets me 30 hits, 25 wounds and 12.5dmg the Nob gets 4 attacks, 2.6 hits, 2.2 wounds and 1.85 unsaved wounds for 3.7dmg.

Durability wise, its been my experience that 10 kommandos hiding in cover getting 3+ saves are both more durable and more annoying than a T6 trukk in the open. especially against top lists which bring all the wonderful D3+3 lascannons/blasters/lances etc.

I like what your saying here Semper

With the above in mind, and considering the latest CA points changes, do 5 x Mega nobz truck boyz seem more appealing for their damage output and durability vs their cost ??

I would be interested to know your thoughts.....

Choppy Da Ork wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

As far as losing the 3rd trukkboyz mob. I had to make sacrifices somewhere, and realistically while a Trukkboyz unit is a good alpha strike unit, it doesn't do much dmg, Kommandos on the other hand....do work.

10 trukkboyz cost 160pts, on a WAAAGH turn thats 9 boyz swinging at S4 with 4 attacks each hitting on 3s -1AP. Against a Marine profile that 160pt investment nets me 24 hits, 12 wounds and 6dmg the nob brings in 4 hits, 2.6 wounds and 1.33dmg.

10 Kommandos cost me 125pts same WAAAGH, 9 kommando boyz swinging at S5 with 4 attacks each hitting on 3s -1AP +1 to wound, exploding 6s gets me 30 hits, 25 wounds and 12.5dmg the Nob gets 4 attacks, 2.6 hits, 2.2 wounds and 1.85 unsaved wounds for 3.7dmg.

Durability wise, its been my experience that 10 kommandos hiding in cover getting 3+ saves are both more durable and more annoying than a T6 trukk in the open. especially against top lists which bring all the wonderful D3+3 lascannons/blasters/lances etc.

I like what your saying here Semper

With the above in mind, and considering the latest CA points changes, do 5 x Mega nobz truck boyz seem more appealing for their damage output and durability vs their cost ??

I would be interested to know your thoughts.....

Dmg/durability yes, 3 Meganobz are better in most categories than 10 trukk boyz. Loss of kulture sucks for both, but 3 naked meganobz cost the exact same as 10 trukk boyz. The only reasons I don't take meganobz is 1: troop tax. Trukk boyz fulfill my troop tax requirement which saves me CP or a useless grot unit which only serves as a backfield objective holder, something I already have done with my mek gunz. and 2: A lot of the lists I run into frequently look at meganobz and laugh. T5 is great, 2+ save is great...but that is all they have. I run into a lot of lists that pack a lot of high AP multi dmg weapons and the one thing my list is not heavy on is great targets for those weapons. competing for that firepower are Trukkz which nobody shoots at except turn 1 when the meganobz are inside them, Koptas, which can easily pop -1 to hit and maybe the warbikes but those guys are paying almost exclusively for their durability, so its kind of pointless to shoot them.

Theoretically, if their trukk survives turn 1 and they get a good charge off they have a good chance of hurting something important, but with them...that is their only turn they will get a chance to do this in, because on my opponents turn 1 or turn 2 if he went first, they will either retreat from the meganobz and hose them down or put something good in CC against them which will tear meganobz apart.

Keep in mind with all this advice, i've never been a big fan of meganobz. They generally appear to me to be Terminators -1 but for some reason either pay more or the same amount for the privilege of being comparable.

I fully understand why you don' t take meganobz. They go directly againts the basic elementary concept of every good ork list - target oversaturation. They will be the only targets for heavy weapons.

As the Custodes comes to the top, the quantity of heavy weapons will be even bigger. So if you keep himself down on light infantry, better for you.

Just two aspects concerns me

- would be the pure weigh of S5 goff attacks enough? Because on the other hand, Custodes have enough power to kill your stuff pretty fast.
- mission 21 vs. effectivity of your Kommandos


The fun fact is, that Bikers and Koptas have the same T like boyz, so regarding the target saturation, they work well both with infantry or vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brian Seipp 2nd on West of Scotland GT with ES Speed Mob.
List:



No wazbooms, no squigbuggies, squads of 6 warbikers (someone plays Data, hmm?), big blob of KBBs and two Dakkajets



Anyway - new Tactical Innovation on Goonhammer is pretty sad. Anybody complained about Drukhari domination? THIS is the domination. Almost no other factions than Tau, Custodes and the rest of Crushing Stempede.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-tau-time/

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand why you don' t take meganobz. They go directly againts the basic elementary concept of every good ork list - target oversaturation. They will be the only targets for heavy weapons.

The fun fact is, that Bikers and Koptas have the same T like boyz, so regarding the target saturation, they work well both with infantry or vehicles.

In his list meganobz provide better saturation than boyz. He invested much more in koptas, mek gunz, and bikes than 1W models. What they don't provide is filling the tax slot, although if the list consists in a patrol + outrider, with just 3 elite slots taken, switching trukk boyz with trukk meganobz would be possible without changing anything, just a matter of preference.

 Blackie wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand why you don' t take meganobz. They go directly againts the basic elementary concept of every good ork list - target oversaturation. They will be the only targets for heavy weapons.

The fun fact is, that Bikers and Koptas have the same T like boyz, so regarding the target saturation, they work well both with infantry or vehicles.

In his list meganobz provide better saturation than boyz. He invested much more in koptas, mek gunz, and bikes than 1W models. What they don't provide is filling the tax slot, although if the list consists in a patrol + outrider, with just 3 elite slots taken, switching trukk boyz with trukk meganobz would be possible without changing anything, just a matter of preference.

It would be worth looking at if nothing else. I technically don't even have to change anything else except 1 unit of trukkboyz. You know what Blackie, i'll give them a whirl

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand why you don' t take meganobz. They go directly againts the basic elementary concept of every good ork list - target oversaturation. They will be the only targets for heavy weapons.

The fun fact is, that Bikers and Koptas have the same T like boyz, so regarding the target saturation, they work well both with infantry or vehicles.

In his list meganobz provide better saturation than boyz. He invested much more in koptas, mek gunz, and bikes than 1W models. What they don't provide is filling the tax slot, although if the list consists in a patrol + outrider, with just 3 elite slots taken, switching trukk boyz with trukk meganobz would be possible without changing anything, just a matter of preference.

It would be worth looking at if nothing else. I technically don't even have to change anything else except 1 unit of trukkboyz. You know what Blackie, i'll give them a whirl

Yeah! I do believe that 3 trukk meganobz are more versatile than 10 trukk boyz. Don't expect miracles though, never forget what they're replacing .

10 boyz are 10 obsec bodies imune to antitank. 3 MANs are just 3 soon to be dead models.

If you're running trukk meganobz, try to get some k-skorchas. It makes them way more versatile and threatening. Cause 3 clan-less meganobz without skorchas are just gona bounce off everything.

 Tomsug wrote:
10 boyz are 10 obsec bodies imune to antitank. 3 MANs are just 3 soon to be dead models.

immune might be a big word to use here but i understand your sentiment. There sure is a lot of multi damage weapons out there these days.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
10 boyz are 10 obsec bodies imune to antitank. 3 MANs are just 3 soon to be dead models.

immune might be a big word to use here but i understand your sentiment. There sure is a lot of multi damage weapons out there these days.

I'd like to point out that a meganob in cover is 17% more resilient to overheating plasma than an ork boy point-for-point. And if he's out there in the open, he's only around 11% less durable.

And that is before you factor morale problems.

But the main problem with boyz is that the enemy is still gona have a bunch of anti-infantry guns that he's getting here and there and can't avoid taking.

If you get shot with ap1 d1 - meganobz are almost 3 times more durable than boyz point per point. And if you take ap0 weapons or cover, they're like 5+ times more durable.

So, the only real edge the boyz have over meganobz is when they get shot with dam3 weapons with high ap.
If boyz are shot at with ap4 dam3+ weapon they're almost 3 times more durable than megsnobz out of cover, yes.

 Tomsug wrote:
10 boyz are 10 obsec bodies imune to antitank. 3 MANs are just 3 soon to be dead models.

Well, 10 boyz are 10 soon to be dead models to anti infantry firepower. Meganobz can tank a lot of those shots, unlike boyz. And any quality shots that meganobz take is less quality shots aimed at bikes, koptas, flyers, mek gunz, buggies, etc...

Obsec doesn't really matter than often also, especially if boyz and not a quality and/or tanky troop squad are involved.

Well, you have a point because of one aspect I 've found right.

I did some digging and math about the SpecMobS and how to use them effectivelly in Speed Mob.

Definitely the most effective SpecMobs seems to be the Boomboyz and the Flyboyz on Wazbooms.

Boomboyz makes Speedwaagh T1+2 smashagun ap-6 (which is funny) and Tellyport Blastas ap-4 (which is usefull especialy againts Tau and Greynights without invu).

However, what is more interesting are the FLYBOYZ - shift the save from 4+/5++ to 3+/5++ if the range >6”. This obviously affects just the AP 0 and AP -2 weapons.

My question was - does it worth it? How many AP 0/-1 weapons is actually on the table?

Well…. A lot!

All Tau main Tau weapons - simple rifles and burst cannons od devilfishes and crisis suits are ap 0 or -1 or can be improved to -1.

This is about 30% damage down. Not bad at all!

And even bigger difference I see in Boyz vs. MANs. Expecting Tau shooting Bs3+ S5 ap 0 it' s either 10 boyz dead or 1 MAN down = squad alive or squad dead.

I still find a squad of boomboy deffkoptas the best bang for buck.. going from ap-2 to ap-3 is huge with that many rokkits but you lose access to drive by Dakka. Same with flyboys on 5x deffkoptas…

Pyromaniacs on a unit of 2-3 KBB is marginally useful as well. But you are right if you don’t want to touch your deffkoptas klan and don’t use KBB it’s probably best to just throw flyboys/boomboys on a wazbom just to get that little extra push.

gungo wrote:
I still find a squad of boomboy deffkoptas the best bang for buck.. going from ap-2 to ap-3 is huge with that many rokkits but you lose access to drive by Dakka. Same with flyboys on 5x deffkoptas…

Pyromaniacs on a unit of 2-3 KBB is marginally useful as well. But you are right if you don’t want to touch your deffkoptas klan and don’t use KBB it’s probably best to just throw flyboys/boomboys on a wazbom just to get that little extra push.

Yeah, Driven by Dakka issue…

The important is, that it' s not only Tau. Custodes or Ad Mech are affected as well, the same Necron warriors popular in my area. So I guess I give a try 2x flyboys wazbooms. Because they cripple down the main of the opponents heavy weapons first and the opponent than chip them down with the mass of rifles. This could help.

You`ll get the cover bonus with BA Wazboms as well + get to keep the Fallback and shoot if they get tagged by some random squad of flying dudes.
Any clan besides BA go for it as it won`t do anything usefull, but since BA Wazboms keep their trait in Speed Mob it`s at least an option.

Same for Koptas, if you run them ES don`t take Specialists, if you run them as anything else Boomboys is a nice option.

I mean lots of tournament ES lists are still taking boomboy deffkoptas they just take multiple units of deffkoptas and the 1x boomboy unit is the dedicated unit for out da sun whereas the other 2 units can fight for drive by Dakka.

The army of renown that I usually see do best has a unit of 6x boomboy deffkoptas and two units of 5x evil sun deffkoptas. But as if you don’t want to limit yourself like that then putting flyboy on that second wazbom without kff isn’t a bad idea… still ap -3 is a huge improvement on the rokkit profile.

gungo wrote:
I still find a squad of boomboy deffkoptas the best bang for buck.. going from ap-2 to ap-3 is huge with that many rokkits but you lose access to drive by Dakka. Same with flyboys on 5x deffkoptas…

You get that from just Speedwaaagh! anyways, is going to ap-4 quite as valuable with all the invulns around?

Yeah, I' m not so excited from ap-4 or bigger. Almost everyone has some 4++/5++.

Madjob wrote:

gungo wrote:
I still find a squad of boomboy deffkoptas the best bang for buck.. going from ap-2 to ap-3 is huge with that many rokkits but you lose access to drive by Dakka. Same with flyboys on 5x deffkoptas…

You get that from just Speedwaaagh! anyways, is going to ap-4 quite as valuable with all the invulns around?

Speedwaagh is only 2 turns… and if you are using out da sun on the deffkoptas for at least 2 turns they should be around turn 3+ and still be ap-3 (and are likely one of your TTL units anyway)

gungo wrote:

Madjob wrote:

gungo wrote:
I still find a squad of boomboy deffkoptas the best bang for buck.. going from ap-2 to ap-3 is huge with that many rokkits but you lose access to drive by Dakka. Same with flyboys on 5x deffkoptas…

You get that from just Speedwaaagh! anyways, is going to ap-4 quite as valuable with all the invulns around?

Speedwaagh is only 2 turns… and if you are using out da sun on the deffkoptas for at least 2 turns they should be around turn 3+ and still be ap-3 (and are likely one of your TTL units anyway)

2 turns is usually all you need to turn the tide in a game of 40k

Hi guys, I've been playing orks for a while but there are some things that I don't understand, can you give me a hand? Trukk Boyz continues to work with the latest FAQ on embarked troops? Can I make an army of renown detachment of cults and then make another regular one if they are from the same clan? I am slowly setting up a speed waaagh, at the moment I have 6 deffkoptas and 1 per type of squig buggy, scrapjet and dragstas, what do you recommend to take to enlarge it?

Army of renown is the entire army list not detachment.

Phoenix Lord wrote:
Hi guys, I've been playing orks for a while but there are some things that I don't understand, can you give me a hand? Trukk Boyz continues to work with the latest FAQ on embarked troops? Can I make an army of renown detachment of cults and then make another regular one if they are from the same clan? I am slowly setting up a speed waaagh, at the moment I have 6 deffkoptas and 1 per type of squig buggy, scrapjet and dragstas, what do you recommend to take to enlarge it?

1) Yes. Latest FAQ doesn't affect Trukk boyz.
2) Army of renown is an entire army, not a detachment. If you want to play army of renown every unit in your list must be army of renown.
3) It depends on what you want to play. If you desire to field an army of renown, and at 2000 points, you need a tons of speed freaks models and you can enlarge any of the units that fit the army's restrictions. I'd suggest adding bikes before anything else, since you don't have them and they're good in multiple builds.

Thanks for the answers, how many bikes do you suggest me to buy?

Phoenix Lord wrote:
Thanks for the answers, how many bikes do you suggest me to buy?

It's probably not what you want to hear from a financial perspective, but between 9 and 24 is probably a good bet.

Mobs of any size can work depending on the rest of your list, but mobs of 5-6 strong are ideal most of the time.

I would start with 9…
You can do 3 units of 3….
But a warboss on warbike is good too.

You can easily put together a 1500pt list with a few purchases and the models you have in a speedfreak army of renown with 2 outrider detachments.

Wartrike
3x deffkoptas
3x warbikers
3x warbikers
3x warbikers
Squigbuggy-nitro squigs
Wazbom-flyboy-kff, 2x shootas, telly blastas

Warboss on bike
3x deffkoptas
Scrapjet
Shokkjump
Wazbom-flyboy-2x shootas, telly blastas

Play with it a few times and see what you like and add more to what works..
Maybe 6 more deffkoptas or 6 more bikers or 2 more scrapjets or 2 more squigbuggies or tryout a Boostsblasta.. and bring it up to 1750.. and then add a few more to get it to 2k.

Phoenix Lord wrote:
Thanks for the answers, how many bikes do you suggest me to buy?

As a intensive SpeedMob army builder - see instagram MekTomsug - I have to say, the final count you need is

3 pieces of each buggy. Now 3 scrapjets and one of each another is ok, but before you finish the models, some another will be great in pack of 3.
15+ bikers
10+ Koptas
2 fully magnetized Jets (my reccomendation = magnetize incl. Wings and tail for better transport)
1+ warboss on warbike
1 wartrike

 Tomsug wrote:

Phoenix Lord wrote:
Thanks for the answers, how many bikes do you suggest me to buy?

As a intensive SpeedMob army builder - see instagram MekTomsug - I have to say, the final count you need is

3 pieces of each buggy. Now 3 scrapjets and one of each another is ok, but before you finish the models, some another will be great in pack of 3.
15+ bikers
10+ Koptas
2 fully magnetized Jets (my reccomendation = magnetize incl. Wings and tail for better transport)
1+ warboss on warbike
1 wartrike

Thanks to everyone, I start planning future purchases.

Avoid packs of 3 shokkjump dragstas maybe, they're better as solo models (aka only one model allowed under the current rules) if you want to rely on their teleporting ability.