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 Blackie wrote:
Avoid packs of 3 shokkjump dragstas maybe, they're better as solo models (aka only one model allowed under the current rules) if you want to rely on their teleporting ability.

I've found two work ok as well. As you don't really need to get the in 9" you usually find a place to drop them.

However, in most of my games, I don't jump them at all. They are fast enough to get where they need to.

Hilarious anecdote: the SJD in my crusade force has rolled the engine upgrade and I slapped the squig tires on top of that - so it now advances 20" which gets you further away than where you can deep strike

Just played a game against emperor's chosen custodes with my bike heavy speed mob 3*8 bikes 2*5 deffkoptas 2 wazboms 2 warbosses a KBB and a nitro rukkatrukk.

I took engage, RND and assassinate and won 90 - 35 only dropping 3 for engage, (maxed nachmund) and dropped 5 from primaries. Infantry and bike Custodes really struggle against ramshackle and -1 reduces they're already limited shooting.

Deffkoptas slay custodes (even if the custodes bikes 5 wounds isn't ideal) although the light cover vexilla means my warbike shooting was wasted.

I played the scouring and basically ignored the centre objective (other than shooting off any units on it) pushing along both board edges. I focused down the bikes and once they were gone my remaining wazbomm had free reign and my deffkoptas could stay out of reach of his charging infantry.

The warbikes became survivable action monkeys in the game completing nachmund and the mission action based tertiary mission. I was lucky to get the final nachmund as I was down to only a 4 man bike squad but I got it. I preferred it to get the good bits and deploy scramblers in this scenario.

As far as I know there are no weapons which are flat d5 so outside of gambling with weapons that are D3+3 there is no truly "ideal" gun for killing custodes bikes and rokkits are probably the best we have. In fact, an extra damage is useful to have as insurance against any units with wound shrugs.

Thank god the custodes bikes can't get a shrug as far as I know. My deffkoptas also rokkited trajan to death. Custodes lack of units meant there was sufficient space to bring my two wazbomms in advantageous locations T2. 3 CP was well worth putting them in reserve and out of reach of the custodian bikes.

Yeah that is always the dilema - starting on the table or burning 3CP. I still trying to keep them on the table… except agains Tau and some Death Guard sets with long range shooting.

CaptainO wrote:
Just played a game against emperor's chosen custodes with my bike heavy speed mob 3*8 bikes 2*5 deffkoptas 2 wazboms 2 warbosses a KBB and a nitro rukkatrukk.

I took engage, RND and assassinate and won 90 - 35 only dropping 3 for engage, (maxed nachmund) and dropped 5 from primaries. Infantry and bike Custodes really struggle against ramshackle and -1 reduces they're already limited shooting.

Deffkoptas slay custodes (even if the custodes bikes 5 wounds isn't ideal) although the light cover vexilla means my warbike shooting was wasted.

I played the scouring and basically ignored the centre objective (other than shooting off any units on it) pushing along both board edges. I focused down the bikes and once they were gone my remaining wazbomm had free reign and my deffkoptas could stay out of reach of his charging infantry.

The warbikes became survivable action monkeys in the game completing nachmund and the mission action based tertiary mission. I was lucky to get the final nachmund as I was down to only a 4 man bike squad but I got it. I preferred it to get the good bits and deploy scramblers in this scenario.

“survivable action monkeys” is very good. Yes, that' s what tehy are

The warbikes 3 wounds do mess with custodes d2 quite a bit too. The people on here who advised against charging we're spot on I mostly resisted the temptation to charge in till T4 and 5 (although T2 I charged purely to slow down his footstodes advance, I don't expect to kill anything)

I'd argue that unless there is a really well hidden objective and you're already wiping the floor with your opponent you're unlikely to max Get the good bits so RnD is better.

Id also no longer write off engage for speed mobs provided you're ok with getting 12 VP. By T2 the planes have come in and by t3 my bikes or deffkoptas have been getting into the opponents back field by driving round the flanks.

I'm going to experiment with changing the warboss on bike into the wartrike as it'll give me another unit that can help with engage.

Yeah the big squads of bikers and one wartrike seems to be strong secondary base that creates:

TTL pretty doable 15VP
RnD - you move 6+ bikers forward and do it. 20” range makes it easy. 12VP
Engage - jets + wartrike + bikers doing RnD + koptas = you can do 12VP

And it' s very hard to stop you scoring. Especially for slow cc like custodes

New Tactical Innovations are there and there is what is interesting for us.

Melee at Shiloh - Jonathan Crafton 2nd with the ES Speed Mob
- 2 detach
- not so much Deffkoptas
- full squad of KBBs
- 23 warbikers - survival monkeys?
- Nick nanavanti was the first hur hur



On the same event 8th Martin Emery with Goffs


https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-gold-standard-pt-1/

Until they curb custodes/tau… orks will have a hard time placing in most major or grand tournaments.
Unfortunately the trend doesn’t seem to be getting any easier as eldar in various forms and maybe Tyranids if crusher stampede gets another boost.

If you dig into the CWE leaks, they are going to be able very trivially dunk on even the best Ork lists.

Wave serpents with transhuman, 5++, strands of battle, and -1 to hit. Woof. Enjoy.

Avatar with fortune and obsec.

Doesn' t matter! We' ll find the way. I don' t afraid.

I wish I shared your optimism. In my opinion unless we get like a full on bump like we got in 8th with pa, I think orks have been knocked out of the meta until 10th.

 Tomsug wrote:
Doesn' t matter! We' ll find the way. I don' t afraid.

Damn straight!

CaptainO wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Doesn' t matter! We' ll find the way. I don' t afraid.

Damn straight!

I second that, let's see how the codex's shape up. Besides we are orks, we are meant to struggle and to get on top.

Think of all the tears we are going to cause

Also question, I am thinking of a list that includes Gazz, but I am a bit confused if I can make the other detachments of a different sub-culture to my super command one.
My idea is to keep it flexible, currently I am looking at bloodaxes for the reserve relic for those armies I want to reserve units, also the light cover and fall-back and shoot is nice but I not sure with new rules. Not that I am worried because I prefer running goffs width this list

Also a big shout out to who mentioned that new psychic interrogation secondary. I am looking at it as a really easy 12 point grab. Took also a look at our weirdboy and we can make it tanky, with hard as nails and super cybork body, funny it can fight really well under goff with it's staff.. and it's 75 point's lol. Pair it with Gazz, and a warboss in mega armour with krushin armour and brutal kuning and I smell possibility.

I feel like it's time to point out that complaining about another army's rules is explicitly against this thread's rules.

If you are discussing other armies, you should focus on their interaction with orks.

The triple KBB is interesting as it opens up access to a shedload of (semi)reliable mortals with crashing through. I've found crashing through is super swingy with deffkoptas but working on a 2+ seems good. The rivet cannon isn't nothing either.

Obviously emperor's chosen messes with it but they're currently one of the few with a mortals save. Speed mobs lack of psychic makes me conscious of our match up into crowns or even ghaz where we need to be able to cause wounds in at least 3 phases.

Anyone played into tau yet and more importantly has anyone made a successful charge? I have PTSD from their overwatch nonsense in 8th so part of me thinks it can't be as bad.

There is a strat that makes the rivet kannon reroll 1-2s to hit.. which isn’t bad on a unit of 3

CaptainO wrote:
The warbikes 3 wounds do mess with custodes d2 quite a bit too. The people on here who advised against charging we're spot on I mostly resisted the temptation to charge in till T4 and 5 (although T2 I charged purely to slow down his footstodes advance, I don't expect to kill anything)

I'd argue that unless there is a really well hidden objective and you're already wiping the floor with your opponent you're unlikely to max Get the good bits so RnD is better.

Id also no longer write off engage for speed mobs provided you're ok with getting 12 VP. By T2 the planes have come in and by t3 my bikes or deffkoptas have been getting into the opponents back field by driving round the flanks.

I'm going to experiment with changing the warboss on bike into the wartrike as it'll give me another unit that can help with engage.

Biggest rule to remember with Warbikes. THEY ARE BOYZ! That is it. So you have 3-6 boyz, good for you, they won't accomplish much in CC. The only reason to charge them in early is because you want to tag expensive units which are good at shooting. Or because you want to tag an enemy unit to try and avoid getting shot to hell that next turn

CaptainO wrote:

 Scactha wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I find his insight on secondaries very interesting - there is way too little talk about these thoughts.

QFT

I had another BA game last night with my wip flexible build. WL on Da Plan, Lootas in Bossbunka, Boyz digging for Good Bitz in my backline and Weirdboy Interrogating. That´s the important parts. Won comfortably vs IF (worst marines I know)

The take home is that you tick 6 VP/turn for doing nothing essentially and doesn´t need to sac units in far away no mans land for Engage or Retrieves. Opponent otoh needs to do this and thus bleeds points and is drawn apart. Tactical win for Orks imo.

How are you doing get the good Bitz in your back line outside of mission 33? It has to be on objectives in no man's land.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
When i said additional hits i meant additional attacks.

And its not about the FAQ its about when you have to do your additional attacks. I just have a faint memory of reading that additional attacks, be it squig jaws, Kill rigs or whom ever, has to be done afterwards, not before. And if we do them afterwards, then you have already done your warboss attacks including his redo attacks from BBK.

in the case of the Kill rig one would have to do the main attacks first, then the trampler squig and the boyz. Not that kill Rigs can have BBK but still.

I've got the core rule book here and can't see an "order of attacks" anywhere.

might be refering to "select a weapon" rules section?

"If your unit is making attacks with more than one melee weapon against a unit, and those weapons have different characteristics profiles, then after you have resolved an attack with one of those weapons you must, if any other weapons with the same characteristics profile are also being used to make attacks against that unit, resolve those attacks before resolving any attacks against the target with a weapon that has a different characteristics profile. Note that all the attacks you have declared are always resolved against the target unit even if, when you come to resolve an individual attack, no models in the target unit remain in range (this can happen because of models being destroyed and removed from the battlefield as the result of resolving other attacks made by the attacking model’s unit first)."

basically you must resolve all attacks with a particular weapon before you move on to the next weapon.

Also when is Goonhammer going to do an Ork faction focus?!? No respect I tell ya!

(Also also Seth the mad dok is ditching orks for tau)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
There is a strat that makes the rivet kannon reroll 1-2s to hit.. which isn’t bad on a unit of 3

ya it's not nothing especially for only 1cp although it has to be within 12" I believe. I normally save it for my wazbomms or deffkoptas (only reroll 1s)

CaptainO wrote:
Also when is Goonhammer going to do an Ork faction focus?!? No respect I tell ya!

To be honest, it will probably better if they don't...

No one at goonhammer really plays orks as their primary army, so anything the write will be written from the perspective of someone observing or facing them which rarely ever turns out well.

Then a ton of people will read that half-baked stuff and use it to tell actual ork players how they are wrong.

No doubt it would be better if it was a pure Ork player writing the piece but they do seem pretty switched on so I'm always up intrigued to see what they say. (Even if I might not agree with it)

 Jidmah wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Also when is Goonhammer going to do an Ork faction focus?!? No respect I tell ya!

To be honest, it will probably better if they don't...

No one at goonhammer really plays orks as their primary army, so anything the write will be written from the perspective of someone observing or facing them which rarely ever turns out well.

Then a ton of people will read that half-baked stuff and use it to tell actual ork players how they are wrong.

Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised either if they made mistakes in army lists or some of our rules in general. Unfortunately, they're very focused on FoTM armies which means Orks are definitely not one of their mainstays and are very likely to have little to no idea on how they work competitively speaking.

Goonhammer accepted the existence of Orks as unavoidable mess. That is all. Even when the orks was in top tier, they was often pretty vague in analysis and couple of times I wrote them complex errata in comments because it was so wrong, it was pain to read.

They don' t play orks. And now they are happy they can ignore them. Look at the last Competitive Innovation - Nick Nanavati was in final againts orks. And what game they choosed to analyze? Tau… they analyzed couple of times before in the same article.

Before the new codex, they seemed to be pretty happy to have some ork successes as an interesting spin in the article. Freebota buggy spam and all the story from last 6-8 months seems to created some PTSD or something

Unless they get a real ork player in the team, don' t expect anything ork-related. I used their CI articles to check what' s going on around and as a selection of bigger events and look on the orks myself in BCP.


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Just to be absolutely clear - I like their page and I like CI. I think it' s one of the best that exists.

Just don' t expect a deep dive into ork army there…

Can I convert an ork deffkopta into an ork 4 wheeler with 2 big shootas rokits and a rolecage?and iif so what do I classify it as

Chaosace86chris wrote:
Can I convert an ork deffkopta into an ork 4 wheeler with 2 big shootas rokits and a rolecage?and iif so what do I classify it as

If you made it large enough and armed it appropriately, it could probably stand in for any of the buggies.

I have a Scrapjet made from a Deffkopta, a Primaris Outrider bike and a Messerschmitt.

Hi, anyone can check Mark's Perry day 1 undefeated list at cherokee open? I'm wondering how he adjusted to custodes meta.

Nabersky wrote:
Hi, anyone can check Mark's Perry day 1 undefeated list at cherokee open? I'm wondering how he adjusted to custodes meta.

It usually takes a few day for those lists to be available outside of the paid apps, but I'll have an eye out for it.

Nabersky wrote:
Hi, anyone can check Mark's Perry day 1 undefeated list at cherokee open? I'm wondering how he adjusted to custodes meta.

Day 1 isn't always a great barometer just because you can easily miss match ups, but basically whoops all meganobz, kanz and squighogs, with a couple of battlewagons.

++ Supreme Command Detachment 0CP (Orks) [18 PL, 355pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ No Force Org Slot +

Makari [3 PL, 55pts]

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +

Ghazghkull Thraka [15 PL, 300pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Orks) [49 PL, 790pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 70pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Super Cybork Body

+ Elites +

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Squighog Boyz [4 PL, 75pts]
. 3x Squighog Boy: 3x Saddlegit Weapons, 3x Squighog Jaws, 3x Stikka

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 130pts]: Deff Rolla, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball

Battlewagon [8 PL, 130pts]: Deff Rolla, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball

Killa Kans [7 PL, 105pts]
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw

Killa Kans [7 PL, 105pts]
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw

Killa Kans [7 PL, 105pts]
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
. Killa Kan: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Orks) [64 PL, -1CP, 855pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ +

Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Stratagem: Big Boss

+ Elites +

Meganobz [12 PL, 150pts]
. Boss Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Meganobz [18 PL, 240pts]
. Boss Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Meganobz [12 PL, 150pts]
. Boss Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Fast Attack +

Squighog Boyz [8 PL, 100pts]
. 4x Squighog Boy: 4x Saddlegit Weapons, 4x Squighog Jaws, 4x Stikka

Squighog Boyz [8 PL, 100pts]
. 4x Squighog Boy: 4x Saddlegit Weapons, 4x Squighog Jaws, 4x Stikka

++ Total: [131 PL, -1CP, 2,000pts] ++

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