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2022/02/26 10:42:48
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Holy gak, that's quite similar to the list I was planning to play tomorrow
I just have 2x beastsnagga boyz instead of 2x MANz to pay less CP and because I don't own that many MANz to begin with. Also more rokkits on then kanz.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/02/26 11:56:08
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: Also when is Goonhammer going to do an Ork faction focus?!? No respect I tell ya!
To be honest, it will probably better if they don't...
No one at goonhammer really plays orks as their primary army, so anything the write will be written from the perspective of someone observing or facing them which rarely ever turns out well.
Then a ton of people will read that half-baked stuff and use it to tell actual ork players how they are wrong.
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised either if they made mistakes in army lists or some of our rules in general. Unfortunately, they're very focused on FoTM armies which means Orks are definitely not one of their mainstays and are very likely to have little to no idea on how they work competitively speaking.
i still remember when they said megadreads "Gained" ere we go in 9th edition .......they had ere we go in 8th edition they gained nothing.
Nabersky wrote: Hi, anyone can check Mark's Perry day 1 undefeated list at cherokee open? I'm wondering how he adjusted to custodes meta.
Day 1 isn't always a great barometer just because you can easily miss match ups, but basically whoops all meganobz, kanz and squighogs, with a couple of battlewagons.
I'm sorry, that isn't a real competitive list is it? Grabbing Klaw and Wrecking ball is 20pts wasted for no reason. Thats 2 extra attacks at S8(6-4) -3AP 2dmg but hits on 5s and 2 extra attacks that are S10(8-6) -1AP 2dmg but again hits on 5s... Even if you put them next to the nob banner which...is itself stupid, it just doesn't make sense.
SemperMortis wrote:I'm sorry, that isn't a real competitive list is it? Grabbing Klaw and Wrecking ball is 20pts wasted for no reason. Thats 2 extra attacks at S8(6-4) -3AP 2dmg but hits on 5s and 2 extra attacks that are S10(8-6) -1AP 2dmg but again hits on 5s... Even if you put them next to the nob banner which...is itself stupid, it just doesn't make sense.
If he puts Ghaz Makari and the Nob w banner in one wagon, 2x5 MANz in the other and jumps the 8 man squad, then using the double buffs of the Nob w/banner and Ghaz to have all the MANz hitting on 2+. The kustom shootas just to keep em cheap as if they go 2nd I imagine they stand to lose one or both wagons. Seems like a pretty startling Beta strike list. I agree the wagon upgrades seem wasted, and he should probably have tried for a bomb squig.
I wonder if they spend a turn just shooting from the wagons to clear screens and letting the wagons charge if able. Then drop everything and charge the whole table turn 2. I could see opponents getting into trouble if they focus too much on the kans or squighogs and let the wagons get up the table. The wagons themselves probably hold up pretty well to Custodes Melee with Ramshackle and a boatload of wounds.
Big weakness seems to be:
-1 damage, but the meta is shifting a bit away from that. Tau and Custodes don't have that and the list is not reliant on re-rolls into janitors, although transhuman against whomever gets the flat 3D buff would still hurt.
Assasinate - lots of characters, many up front
Bring it down - Kans and wagons bleed these so badly
SemperMortis wrote:I'm sorry, that isn't a real competitive list is it? Grabbing Klaw and Wrecking ball is 20pts wasted for no reason. Thats 2 extra attacks at S8(6-4) -3AP 2dmg but hits on 5s and 2 extra attacks that are S10(8-6) -1AP 2dmg but again hits on 5s... Even if you put them next to the nob banner which...is itself stupid, it just doesn't make sense.
If he puts Ghaz Makari and the Nob w banner in one wagon, 2x5 MANz in the other and jumps the 8 man squad, then using the double buffs of the Nob w/banner and Ghaz to have all the MANz hitting on 2+. The kustom shootas just to keep em cheap as if they go 2nd I imagine they stand to lose one or both wagons. Seems like a pretty startling Beta strike list. I agree the wagon upgrades seem wasted, and he should probably have tried for a bomb squig.
I wonder if they spend a turn just shooting from the wagons to clear screens and letting the wagons charge if able. Then drop everything and charge the whole table turn 2. I could see opponents getting into trouble if they focus too much on the kans or squighogs and let the wagons get up the table. The wagons themselves probably hold up pretty well to Custodes Melee with Ramshackle and a boatload of wounds.
Big weakness seems to be:
-1 damage, but the meta is shifting a bit away from that. Tau and Custodes don't have that and the list is not reliant on re-rolls into janitors, although transhuman against whomever gets the flat 3D buff would still hurt.
Assasinate - lots of characters, many up front
Bring it down - Kans and wagons bleed these so badly
I’m confused by the list…
I mean if you are going all in on battlewagon meganobs you would think he would actually take a foot warboss or mega warboss in the detachment because they are actually very good with mega nobs… better then the banner nob at least..
2022/02/26 17:45:09
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Banner nob buffs the Killa Kans. It's the one thing it can do over a regular Warboss or even Ghaz. Nothing else in the army does.
I would be interested to see how that remotely plays into an army like Tau. Any y'all have much success into them yet? I tried my first game and a casual list brow beat me pretty badly.
2022/02/26 18:36:47
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That big slab of meganobs is also susceptible to morale, not sure it is worth paying for the banner, you would probably be better off with dreads if your intention is to melee and handle shaft with the kans.
Honestly i don't consider kans with out rockets even worth it. But i guess you have plans? I am not a fan of one dimension plans of melee only but some decent shooting for support would be nice.
Another thing is you might want to replace the warboss on bike for warboss in mega armor which is more killy and durable. I would also give hard as nails to the weirdboy if you don't wish to lose it and execute the secondary.. but if you only want to cast jump there is no need for the relic.
that's my list for gazz, kommandos are for screening and bikes for actions, HQ act has shock you avoid trying to engage you want to be engaged.
secondaries:
-engage all fronts
-psychic interrogation
- depends on engagement, but for most armies the good bit's is enough, for something like custodes, I would go for RND since holding middle would not be feasible
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/26 20:08:58
2022/02/27 15:10:25
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
tulun wrote: Banner nob buffs the Killa Kans. It's the one thing it can do over a regular Warboss or even Ghaz. Nothing else in the army does.
I would be interested to see how that remotely plays into an army like Tau. Any y'all have much success into them yet? I tried my first game and a casual list brow beat me pretty badly.
I don't think Banner nob can buff the Killa Kans.
They are a Gretchin unit, so they don't get the Clan, so Banner can't help them.
Edit, it does work
it is the clan kultur the gretchin miss out on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/27 15:26:21
2022/02/27 15:19:45
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
And am I correct in saying strays now effect them which is different to 8th (Kans being the only unit you'd want to use a strat on... Maybe badmoon Mel gunz)
2022/02/27 18:08:44
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
tulun wrote: Banner nob buffs the Killa Kans. It's the one thing it can do over a regular Warboss or even Ghaz. Nothing else in the army does.
I would be interested to see how that remotely plays into an army like Tau. Any y'all have much success into them yet? I tried my first game and a casual list brow beat me pretty badly.
Ya sure but I would still rather have a warboss to buff the multiple meganobs then an expensive and easily killable banner nob that’s probably not in range of killakans anyway.
A ard as nails, krushin armor mega warboss w makari fnp is one of the toughest character we have.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/27 18:11:18
2022/02/27 20:35:44
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
If he puts Ghaz Makari and the Nob w banner in one wagon, 2x5 MANz in the other and jumps the 8 man squad, then using the double buffs of the Nob w/banner and Ghaz to have all the MANz hitting on 2+. The kustom shootas just to keep em cheap as if they go 2nd I imagine they stand to lose one or both wagons. Seems like a pretty startling Beta strike list. I agree the wagon upgrades seem wasted, and he should probably have tried for a bomb squig.
I wonder if they spend a turn just shooting from the wagons to clear screens and letting the wagons charge if able. Then drop everything and charge the whole table turn 2. I could see opponents getting into trouble if they focus too much on the kans or squighogs and let the wagons get up the table. The wagons themselves probably hold up pretty well to Custodes Melee with Ramshackle and a boatload of wounds.
Big weakness seems to be:
-1 damage, but the meta is shifting a bit away from that. Tau and Custodes don't have that and the list is not reliant on re-rolls into janitors, although transhuman against whomever gets the flat 3D buff would still hurt.
Assasinate - lots of characters, many up front
Bring it down - Kans and wagons bleed these so badly
The issue is that 2x5 Manz is 300pts, 2 battlewagons equipped like that are 260pts, Ghaz, Makari and Banner nob is another 425pts. So just those 2 models on the table turn 1 is 985pts. So almost Half your army is 2 models which are T7, 16wounds and 3+ armor. I don't know of any army right now that would struggle to delete a pair of Battlewagons turn 1 leaving their contents exposed and in the open. And if they go first and do that your list is functionally dead turn 1. The rest of the army is filled in with slow units (Kanz) and relatively fast units (Squig riders) so they don't synergize and leave your opponent with easy choices on what to kill. Pop those Wagonz, focus fire the riders and then switch to meganobz/kanz to your hearts content.
Game 1: Game literally ended turn 1. Opponent conceded turn 1 after I had tabled about 75% of his list turn 1 without him even getting much more than a handful of casualties from overwatch and exploding vehicles. I was able to go first and it was a blood bath. All 3 units of kommandos were able to Toe in cover a host of his units ranging from heavy tanks to light infantry. The Trukkboyz weren't able to get into combat because by the time they got there their targets were dead. The Trukk Meganobz charged a Hellhound and blew it, and themselves up (a bit). Warbosses never left their trukkz, the real stunner was incredible luck rolling with my Deffkoptas (3 units of 3). 1 Unit managed 8 hits and 5 unsaved wounds which blew up a hellhound and a huge swathe of enemy models. In CC they were as decimating as ever. 27 S6 -1AP attacks is just devastating. At this point my opponent conceded there would be no chance of him being able to do anything beyond possibly scoring a few primary points.
Game 2: We reset the board, changed deployment and went again, this time we gave him 1st turn. End of his shooting phase he had taken 1 midfield objective, cleared me off (kommandos) a 2nd objective but hadn't been able to touch it and was working towards the 3rd center objective which was being guarded by Camping Kommandos. Turn 1 for him ended with 20 dead Kommandos and about 5-6 dead Warbikes as well as a Trukk down to 1 wound.
Repeating what happened last game my alphork strike list went forward, this time significantly weakened by the losses but still for the most part able to function. My opponent never fired at my Mekgunz. So turn 1 Zagstruk popped out 3, moved 12 and was in easy assault range of a host of targets, Trukk Meganobz joined him after the trukk moved 6 (it was fully bracketed) and were able to advance to the point where they could get an easy charge vs a pair of hellhounds. Warboss also hopped out before the trukk moved and was easy range to a sentinel. Unit of Warbikes advanced forward (what was left of it) and gunned down a few guardsmen and then rolled double snake eyes for the charge so they failed (Jerks). On the opposite flank my Hidden Kommandos made their presence known by bursting out of cover, joined by the Trukk boyz and were able to gun down some guardsmen before bum rushing a tank platoon, tying it up for that turn and the next before it was dead.
Game 2 ended at the end of Turn 2 as my opponent conceded he had no chance of even scoring anymore primaries as everything was tied up in CC or about to die.
Lessons learned for me though is that while killing is a lot of fun, sometimes discretion is going to win me more games rather than brute force. I lost out on 4 Primary points on turn 2 because turn 1 I didn't properly move my warboss nor my Deffkoptas to tag an objective which would have given me 1, 2 and more instead of just 1 and 2.
Secondaries for me were Behind Enemy lines (No kidding right ), Bring it down (enemy had a lot of tanks and vehicles) and Retrieve. The thought process behind not going for the third secondary right away is that if I can table my opponent or at least reduce them to not having much of a chance of stopping me, I can easily do this on multiple table quarters turns 3-5.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/27 20:57:17
2022/02/28 00:12:00
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Out of curiosity, have you seen any holes on your list so far? I am really interested how you would face against something similar or maybe like Tyranid stampede or lots of fight first , I think from Slanesh, would do to your list?
I am also curious how your list would handle something like Custodes or death guard where melee engagement isn't favourable because of all the shenanigans they can pull?
Also, have you had a chance to play the new tau, do you have any thoughts?
I hope you could share some light on that discussion since i would be very interested to hear your thoughts.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/28 06:07:01
2022/02/28 07:41:16
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Out of curiosity, have you seen any holes on your list so far? I am really interested how you would face against something similar or maybe like Tyranid stampede or lots of fight first , I think from Slanesh, would do to your list? I am also curious how your list would handle something like Custodes or death guard where melee engagement isn't favourable because of all the shenanigans they can pull? Also, have you had a chance to play the new tau, do you have any thoughts?
I hope you could share some light on that discussion since i would be very interested to hear your thoughts.
I have used a similar list against custodians, Grey knights and sisters of battle. And the list does have one very large glaring issue, which is experienced people using decent factions knows that you will call a waaagh turn 1, will then deploy accordingly to hunker down 1 inch behind ruins so that you are bottleneck'ed to fight between the ruins. It means you wont get a full surround.
The list wants to charge turn 1, but if the enemy has hunkered down like that, making you unable to go through the ruins in his starting zone, having to run and charge around the ruins if thats even possible, meaning that often you are forced to go for turn a round 2 charge.
In my case, i use stormboyz instead of warbikers, so i at least can fly. But i cant fly more than 18 inches, still leaving me a good 6 inches from his deployment zone edge, so i wont reach behind his ruins for a surround turn 1. Turn 1 is usually reserved to charging straight up to his frontline maybe except for the kommandos. The deffkoptas moving 14 inches will also still have a 10 inch charge. Im not sure how Semper got all 3 units of deffkoptas in with 3x 10 inch charges. I would say deffkoptas would have to fly up and get in turn 2 unless the enemy moves forward after his own first turn. Unless he only got in with one with ramming speed. Im not sure.
All the new missions are 24" from each deployment edge towards the middle, except for 1 battle map which is shorter, so at least the scouring which was 28 is gone so thats positive. But my point still stands, that it depends on how well your opponent uses his deployment zone ruins to block you out and how experienced he is. If you get turn 1, ive found it more beneficial to go for a round 2 charge so i can get that surround.
If i get turn 2, then i often feel forced to commit to the charge on round 1 to avoid getting shot at for 2 rounds before getting in. If you get turn 1 that gives you more leeway to get in to position. Sometimes going for turn 1 charge is great, but sometimes, it isnt.
So its a really terrain dependant list that also plays with how well your opponent knows how to play. If the enemy can funnel you down in to small corridors between the ruins then you wont get the full surround. And if you cant get that, then you will get wasted.
So the terrain set up can really screw you over. If there are ruins in your opponents deployment zone he can deploy in to then RIP.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2022/03/01 07:48:32
2022/02/28 15:16:22
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
tulun wrote: Banner nob buffs the Killa Kans. It's the one thing it can do over a regular Warboss or even Ghaz. Nothing else in the army does.
I would be interested to see how that remotely plays into an army like Tau. Any y'all have much success into them yet? I tried my first game and a casual list brow beat me pretty badly.
Ya sure but I would still rather have a warboss to buff the multiple meganobs then an expensive and easily killable banner nob that’s probably not in range of killakans anyway.
A ard as nails, krushin armor mega warboss w makari fnp is one of the toughest character we have.
I mean totally fair, that's just what he was thinking. Getting those KK to hitting on 3s actually makes them legitimately scary though, as they have AP3 flat 3 weapons.
Had a game against Tau today, with my own spin on the Alphork list:
Tripple Patrol Goff:
Spoiler:
Beastboss on Squigosaurus (Warlord, Mantle, Ard as nails)
MA Warboss (Krushin Armour, Proper Killy)
Makari
3 x 10 Trukkboys
3 x Trukk
3 x 5 Warbikes
3 x 10 Kommandos (each Bomb Squig + Flamer for advance and bomb away)
3 x 5 Stormboys
2 + 2+ 1 KMK
Tau list mostly the usual stuff as Borkan:
Spoiler:
Shadowsun
Coldstar +2 Drones
Ethereal with relic staff
Crisis Commander + 2 Drones
5 Bodyguards with 2 x Airburst + target lock (no cover) + 5 Drones
5 Crisis (Cyclic, Flamer, Plasma) + 5 Drones
3 Broadsides + 6 Drones
3 x 10 Kroot
2 x 4 Kroot Hound
2 Tetras
2 x 6 Vespids
Mission was Data Scry, so 2/3 more and up to 3 extra points / turn for holding 1-3 midfield objectives while actioning at your home objective.
Also you still hold an objective if you get shot off from it.
He went for TTL (2 x Crisis + Broadsides), RND and Engage, my choices were Engage, Banners and No Prisoners (15 VP possible here)
I deployed the Kommandos super aggressively, as he had lots of out of LOS shooting with some of that ignoring cover.
Makari and the Mek Guns were camping and screening backfield, the rest, especially the trukks tried to hide as good as possible.
I went first and didn`t call Waaagh, as he deployed everything besides the Kroot stuff very far back and his scout-move Kroot had made any fun ideas of the Kommandos basicly impossible. Still i went all in with the Kommandos and they killed all of his Kroot, while my Trukks and the Beastboss positioned themselves for the turn 2 Waaagh.
My Bikes boosted on all the objectives, togeher with the Stormboys who all raised Banners.
His first turn he whiped all the Kommandos and had to use almost all the Dakka for that, so no other losses this turn.
My second turn i continued to score while my Trukkboys, the MA Boss and 2 x 5 Bikes yeeted into his both Crisis Teams and the Broadsides, with one unlucky Trukk eating his only overwatch and dying, no questions asked.
I knew he would kill that wave as well, so i screened the whole table as his Vespids and Tetras were still in reserve and 2 of those had to come in far back in his deployment zone.
After his second turn all the Trukkboys, the 10 Bikes and the MA Warboss were dead as well.
I know i was gonna get tabled, so in turn 3 i proceded with my plan, maxed out Primaries (well, technically i did at the start of turn 4) and had all but 1-2 objectives under my control. The Beastboss charged his Coldstar, who... survived. (But got beaten up in his turn as he failed to kill him shooting in cc and died in his fight phase. )
I had to give up 100% screening as well, so he could finish RND in his turn, where he killed 2 Trukks and 2 Mek Guns as well as the remaining Bikers and Stormboys.
Turn 4 i had left Makari, 2 Mek Guns and the Squigboss (2 wounds).
He had 4 dudes in each Crisis Team + 3 Broadsides but no more Drones and his other 3 HQ`s + the Tetras and Vespids.
Squigboss charged the Broadsides and only lost 1 wound in overwatch, after that he killed two of them - nice!
At that point we called it a day, as i was 20+ VP`s ahead and even with maxing everything out he would score 15 tops, so it would have been something like 90:60 in the end.
Would probably have been tabled turn 4 or 5 though.
I have to say, that might be the worst of all missions for Tau against a list like this and having turn 1 certainly helped me.
Really missed the Squigbuggies, they would have been fantastic to chip away drones, they were basicly eating most of my output and after that he still had the 2+ AS upgrade on 1 dude in each Crisis team, thats really tough to chip through, especially with 1 unit having really mean overwatch and afterwards shooting in close combat.
The 3 x 5 Stormboys + Bikes were fantastic for scoring, which is really a thing you need in close games when your Boys die fast and you won`t do enough damage.
And honestly, i don`t see that list tabling lots of the top armies right now, as both Tau and Custodes can tank lots of the AP1 melee and have additional stuff that hurts us a lot.
Besides that, for small tournaments winning 3 times with ~80 points might be enough, but for anything bigger you need to score 90+ reliably if you aim for top placings.
And to be honest, while the list puts a lot of pressure on the opponent and there are armies like guard that get absolutely wrecked by it, 3 of the top tier armies (DE, Tau, Custodes) can easily give us a hard time. I guess Admech is kinda of the table for now, not sure about Eldar. They have really mean indirct fire power and can get in melee on their terms with the "put stuff in reserve if i don`t go first" strat and other tricks like the Gate and Strands of fate.
I did not really miss the Koptas today, as they can`t advance and charge and most opponents know to stay 28" away at deploying and -1 to hit terain / custodes banner makes their shooting basically useless.
The Squigboss is reaaally expensive, but man i love the model and thus play him every time i get the chance to. I guess he would be the first to skip though, which could free up some points. On the other hand he hits really hard, i don`t see any point in running a regular boss on foot. Zagstruk and / or Snikrot might be actual alternatives for him.
Gonna have a rematch tomorow (maybe Tau Sept instead of Borkan but otherwise mostly the same list) and maybe even a game against Eldar.
Any list ideas to try? I have played Speed Mob a LOT, so for now i`m gonna stick with Alpork a bit.
Have another list as Death Skulls for full ObSec and a Blood Axe one to utilise some of the cool strats, but today the Goff trait was solid.
2022/02/28 19:31:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Well the game plan isn`t go first by default, but in that special case it helps.
It will still take all of the Tau Dakka to clear those 30 Kommandos, so the "second" wave can come in unmolested.
I`m afraid this will be the problem with all Tau matchups with the Alphork list, as they will run 1 unit of Airburst Crisis all the time and have SMS on top of that.
I still managed to deploy them with some LOS blockers / dense terrain between them and all the stuff that needs LOS, so that was the best i could go for unless placing them in my own deployment zone.
But since Tau have Strike & fade and good range as well, that wouldn`t have made a difference. If i place them in strategic reserve i just loose my trukks to them, so it`s still the better trade that way.
Deploying them aggressivly is still the best way to go against Tau as you Trukk Boys and Warbikers can easily go for 24"+ charges if i need to and it really pushes them off the no mans land for 2 turns which will help a lot with scoring. Sure its probably loose but thats still a good trade if you take the lead on primaries with that.
Especially in 2/3 more missions - Tau really hate those.
2022/02/28 21:11:34
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I have used a similar list against custodians, Grey knights and sisters of battle. And the list does have one very large glaring issue, which is experienced people using decent factions knows that you will call a waaagh turn 1, will thendeploy accordingly to hunker down 1 inch behind ruins so that you are bottleneck'ed to fight between the ruins. It means you wont get a full surround.
The list wants to charge turn 1, but if the enemy has hunkered down like that, making you unable to go through the ruins in his starting zone, having to run and charge around the ruins if thats even possible, meaning that often you are forced to go for turn a round 2 charge.
In my case, i use stormboyz instead of warbikers, so i at least can fly. But i cant fly more than 18 inches, still leaving me a good 6 inches from his deployment zone edge, so i wont reach behind his ruins for a surround turn 1. Turn 1 is usually reserved to charging straight up to his frontline maybe except for the kommandos. The deffkoptas moving 14 inches will also still have a 10 inch charge. Im not sure how Semper got all 3 units of deffkoptas in with 3x 10 inch charges. I would say deffkoptas would have to fly up and get in turn 2 unless the enemy moves forward after his own first turn. Unless he only got in with one with ramming speed. Im not sure.
All the new missions are 24" from each deployment edge towards the middle, except for 1 battle map which is shorter, so at least the scouring which was 28 is gone so thats positive. But my point still stands, that it depends on how well your opponent uses his deployment zone ruins to block you out and how experienced he is. If you get turn 1, ive found it more beneficial to go for a round 2 charge so i can get that surround.
If i get turn 2, then i often feel forced to commit to the charge on round 1 to avoid getting shot at for 2 rounds before getting in. If you get turn 1 that gives you more leeway to get in to position. Sometimes going for turn 1 charge is great, but sometimes, it isnt.
So its a really terrain dependant list that also plays with how well your opponent knows how to play. If the enemy can funnel you down in to small corridors between the ruins then you wont get the full surround. And if you cant get that, then you will get wasted.
So the terrain set up can really screw you over. If there are ruins in your opponents deployment zone he can deploy in to then RIP.
Exactly this !
I have been trying to run a Goff pressure list, but I am always playing on the WTC 2022 maps and they are very heavy on terrain.
My opponent knows what is coming, so deploys to deny the early charges.
I can never get enough units in together to overwhelm my opponent early on.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/28 21:13:54
2022/02/28 21:54:14
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tau have always historically been a very annoying army counter to Ork lists in the past when they've been updated for the edition, so it's no surprise they're giving us trouble with their new codex alongside the overtuned aspects from all their out of LoS weaponry. My most recent game against them I found it incredibly obnoxious that they just kept spamming SMS and AFP to target my infantry holding objectives all game, and the Riptide and Broadsides in particular can be an issue with all the buffs they can layer on top for protection.
I only took 1 Squigbuggy with the Nitro Squigs but it feels like I need a full squad of 3 to actually trade fire with the rest of his army.
2022/03/01 04:29:11
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I talked to Mark Perry at Cherokee about his list. It actually makes a lot of sense in a Custodes meta. Goff MANz hit so much harder than trukk boyz MANz and Ghaz is awesome into both Custodes and Tau.
I ended up getting 41st place, the next highest ork player after Mark it seems. Went 4 - 2 only losing to Crusher Stampede by 5 and losing to Custodes.
2022/03/01 18:43:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Currently really enjoying running my bike heavy speed mob list and haven't come up against any unwinnable match up yet (I need to get myself to another GT to say for certain)
Making use of a defftrike warboss with follow me lads and squighide tires (26" +2d6" range when I call the speedwaagh) to make the charges by warbikes, stormboys, deffkoptas and da jumped meganobz easier.
A 6xdeffkopta squad puts out an eyewatering 72 s6 ap-1 attacks if I great waaagh and use warpath on them. Exploding 6s too
Big gob on the nob with banner gives a heathy 9" +1 bubble.
Ghaz and the rest of the Infantry and characters into the middle then by end of T2.
Physoc secondaries are an option unlike my speed mob list as well as banners. RnD looks good too.
Half thinking of making the meganobz into one blob.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/01 18:44:30
2022/03/01 19:24:10
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Now that there is 50 points difference to the Kill Rig and the Kill rig is probably not a great idea into a meta with T'au and a million salvo launchers and bright lances.
At 160 points it might be priced to compete. It's priced so that you can run three and its not the be all and end all of your strategy if you lose them.
2022/03/01 19:27:01
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Now that there is 50 points difference to the Kill Rig and the Kill rig is probably not a great idea into a meta with T'au and a million salvo launchers and bright lances.
At 160 points it might be priced to compete. It's priced so that you can run three and its not the be all and end all of your strategy if you lose them.
I don't like the hunta rig - it loses everything that makes the kill rig good (psyker and character).
I'd rather just take battlewagons at an even lower price.
2022/03/01 20:58:21
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Its not a variant build, like completely different loadout but same frame and backbone abilities (snagga rules and the squig melee the same but otherwise different). Instead its exactly the same as the Kill Rig except the Kill Rig gets more stuff, and the stuff it gets is the main reason that frame is rude.
Had the Harpoon been an actual powerful weapon and only the Hunta Rig had it i could argue using it but right now its horrendous compared to the killrig and/or wagons with a rolla.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/03/02 07:42:07
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Now that there is 50 points difference to the Kill Rig and the Kill rig is probably not a great idea into a meta with T'au and a million salvo launchers and bright lances.
At 160 points it might be priced to compete. It's priced so that you can run three and its not the be all and end all of your strategy if you lose them.
I just made a freebootas list that uses 3 hunta rigs as distraction carnifexes. i dont have 3 hunta rings so ive yet to test it but i think it could work.
3 hunta rigs is only 480 points, so its a lot of wounds and good close combat for those points. Points the enemy cant deny he has to deal with.
Depending on what you want the kill rig is still better, but you still get good value out of 160 points in the normal hunta rig.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote: Currently really enjoying running my bike heavy speed mob list and haven't come up against any unwinnable match up yet (I need to get myself to another GT to say for certain)
Making use of a defftrike warboss with follow me lads and squighide tires (26" +2d6" range when I call the speedwaagh) to make the charges by warbikes, stormboys, deffkoptas and da jumped meganobz easier.
A 6xdeffkopta squad puts out an eyewatering 72 s6 ap-1 attacks if I great waaagh and use warpath on them. Exploding 6s too
Big gob on the nob with banner gives a heathy 9" +1 bubble.
Ghaz and the rest of the Infantry and characters into the middle then by end of T2.
Physoc secondaries are an option unlike my speed mob list as well as banners. RnD looks good too.
Half thinking of making the meganobz into one blob.
My only point to this list that i want to say is that the deffkilla has a large base. So if he has to get in first with follow me ladz, there isnt much room for any other infantry to make a charge against the same target
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/02 08:08:18
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
), Bring it down (enemy had a lot of tanks and vehicles) and Retrieve. The thought process behind not going for the third secondary right away is that if I can table my opponent or at least reduce them to not having much of a chance of stopping me, I can easily do this on multiple table quarters turns 3-5.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys