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"Receiving benefit of cover" is refering to cover in general.
Kommandos dont have a 3+ when not in Light Cover but they do get the +2 to the save, because they are still benefiting from "Cover" in some sense. The same applies to their melee ability, if the combat is in cover of some form it goes off.

Had their rule specifically called out LIght Cover then yeah they wouldnt get jack in dense terrain.

Semper and Vineheart are right.

SemperMortis wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
So I was made aware of the fact that our kommandos dont get a +2 to their save value when sitting in cover that dont already give a save value. They only get +1.

So in dense terrain during shooting and cc we would get a 5+ instead of a 4+ as I thought otherwise. Only light cover and heavy gives the 3+ save total it seems. Apparently theres a rule somewhere stating this.

Also i didnt think this kommando rule applied to close combat but people say it does?

MPROVING THE BENEFITS OF COVER
Some models have abilities that improve the bonus a model receives to its saving throw when it is receiving the benefit of cover — for example, ‘add 2 instead of 1 to saving throws for models in this unit while it is receiving the benefit of cover’. If a model or unit with such a rule is receiving the benefits of cover from a terrain feature with the Light Cover or Heavy Cover trait, then this rule is applied as written. If that model or unit is receiving the benefits of cover from any other terrain features with any other terrain traits, you instead add 1 to its saving throws, in addition to any other benefits of cover that are gained from those terrain features. In either case, invulnerable saves are unaffected.

Whoever told you that was incorrect. The Kommando rule is

Sneaky Gits Each time an attack is allocated to a model in this unit while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 2 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.

So if you are in dense terrain your opponent has -1 to hit and your kommandos get +2 to their save because they are "receiving the benefits of cover". So in this scenario Kommandos have -1 to hit and 4+ saves.

When they are in Light cover they get 3+ saves.

But doesnt the thing i quoted specifically state that in dense terrain our +2 rule would only be +1? Btw this is an advanced rule.

I hate how fething complicated this game is sometimes have to be with conflicting rules.

If that quote i cited dont count for us, then I dont know what it counts for.

But we DO get the extra save value in close combat as well in Light cover? Despite them only proccing against shooting attacks normally. So a +4 save in dense terrain in cc, +4 save in Light cover in close combat, and a +3 save in heavy cover in cc?

Because I feel like most i play against say i DONT receive the benefits of cover in close combat unless its heavy cover.

Also im sorry to pickles your brains here but I use 30 kommandos in my main army, and literally everytime i ask about that rule i get conflicting answers. I gotta know this because im tired of not knowing.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
"Receiving benefit of cover" is refering to cover in general.
Kommandos dont have a 3+ when not in Light Cover but they do get the +2 to the save, because they are still benefiting from "Cover" in some sense. The same applies to their melee ability, if the combat is in cover of some form it goes off.

Had their rule specifically called out LIght Cover then yeah they wouldnt get jack in dense terrain.

Their ability throat slittaz though is incredibly far reaching. A terrain feature includes pretty much everything, including hills. If the board has inbuilt hills deciding when you're in range of it is gonna be a pain in the butt.

cody.d. wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
"Receiving benefit of cover" is refering to cover in general.
Kommandos dont have a 3+ when not in Light Cover but they do get the +2 to the save, because they are still benefiting from "Cover" in some sense. The same applies to their melee ability, if the combat is in cover of some form it goes off.

Had their rule specifically called out LIght Cover then yeah they wouldnt get jack in dense terrain.

Their ability throat slittaz though is incredibly far reaching. A terrain feature includes pretty much everything, including hills. If the board has inbuilt hills deciding when you're in range of it is gonna be a pain in the butt.

No. That is not right. Hills or tops of the containers are EXPOSED POSITION

Beardedragon wrote:

But doesnt the thing i quoted specifically state that in dense terrain our +2 rule would only be +1?

Not sure. Because what you quoted was taking as example a unit with a +1 ability (‘add 2 instead of 1 to saving throws'= +1), so all we can really conclude is the confirmation that even in a terrain feature that doesn't improve the saving throw, the ability still kicks in.

Ah.. I see. I didnt fully understand what I read but you make sense

Interesting tech that occurred to me that still works in this no subfaction world.

This detachment is legal:

Goff Patrol

Mozrog

10 grots (or 10 truck boys)

Elite: Truckboy mega nobs (if grots taken)

You still get to take a truck boy unit (as they don't get clan bonuses anyway), grots if taken don't get clan bonus, and Moz breaks clan bonus for being in this detachment but again we don't care.

Advantages over a regular squig boss:

- 4++

-attacks are 7 2 3

-his squig does 4 MWs when doing damage

-saves you 2 CP (No relic or WLT required)



Disadvantages:

-15 more points

-Can't take beast hide relic or BBK.

-this support detachment has slots that are harder to use (but I think you could still put the right stuff in there and not care that much, like say 2-3 squig buggies).

Has anyone tried this out? The regular squig boss at 170 now seems to be kind of weedy -- its a 6 2 2 for his base attacks. The offensive relic helps, but in a world of -1 damage, it seems like you'd trade off flat 3 for the headwhoppa choppa in a heart beat, and then you aren't taking the beast hide mantle.

Fists of Gork *can* target him as well as it's not clan locked, and Monster hunters is also not CLAN locked.

Also his model rules, and it's a shame he hasn't been around more given how bad Snakebites are as a clan vs Goffs.

disregard what i wrote here. I wrote bollocks.

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
"Receiving benefit of cover" is refering to cover in general.
Kommandos dont have a 3+ when not in Light Cover but they do get the +2 to the save, because they are still benefiting from "Cover" in some sense. The same applies to their melee ability, if the combat is in cover of some form it goes off.

Had their rule specifically called out LIght Cover then yeah they wouldnt get jack in dense terrain.

Their ability throat slittaz though is incredibly far reaching. A terrain feature includes pretty much everything, including hills. If the board has inbuilt hills deciding when you're in range of it is gonna be a pain in the butt.

No. That is not right. Hills or tops of the containers are EXPOSED POSITION

But, are they terrain features? The answer is, by definition yes.
"Throat Slittas: Each time a model in this unit makes a melee attack, if it is within 1" of a terrain feature, add 1 to that attack’s wound roll."
"There are four categories of terrain features: Hills, Obstacles, Area Terrain, and Buildings."

tulun wrote:
Interesting tech that occurred to me that still works in this no subfaction world.

This detachment is legal:

Goff Patrol

Mozrog

10 grots (or 10 truck boys)

Elite: Truckboy mega nobs (if grots taken)

You still get to take a truck boy unit (as they don't get clan bonuses anyway), grots if taken don't get clan bonus, and Moz breaks clan bonus for being in this detachment but again we don't care.

Advantages over a regular squig boss:

- 4++

-attacks are 7 2 3

-his squig does 4 MWs when doing damage

-saves you 2 CP (No relic or WLT required)



Disadvantages:

-15 more points

-Can't take beast hide relic or BBK.

-this support detachment has slots that are harder to use (but I think you could still put the right stuff in there and not care that much, like say 2-3 squig buggies).

Has anyone tried this out? The regular squig boss at 170 now seems to be kind of weedy -- its a 6 2 2 for his base attacks. The offensive relic helps, but in a world of -1 damage, it seems like you'd trade off flat 3 for the headwhoppa choppa in a heart beat, and then you aren't taking the beast hide mantle.

Fists of Gork *can* target him as well as it's not clan locked, and Monster hunters is also not CLAN locked.

Also his model rules, and it's a shame he hasn't been around more given how bad Snakebites are as a clan vs Goffs.

Im not a 100% sure about this, but we might be able to cheese in 2 or even 3 different clans still.
Let's say main army is DS and I take a Goff patrol on top with Zagstruk and a unit of Trukkboys.
The monofaction rules only states the keyword must be the same if its selectable.
But both have a fixed keyword, Zagstruk Goffs and Trukkboys for the boys. (Or orrible Gitz Gretchin)
That way you could also sneak in another clans WL trait, it has to be their specific one though.

Same would be possible for auxiliary detachments but those don't get Clan traits.

Cody - oh yes, that is right. Throat slittas works. The cover bonus don't.


Regarding the Mark Perry list with bunch of Killa Kans, to s of MANz i battlewagons and Ghazzy - he played them online on Art of War online tournament there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJZneAcwpI4

He lost the first game 78:35 againts custodes and is out. He was unable to score any points on secondaries except T1 Stranglehold. In fact, it seems he struggled to kill anything at all.

It was a nice experiment. But I take it as a proof that it' s not a good idea.


Meanwhile I played couple of games with my Speed Mob and learned few new thinks:

1. And most important - if you play, you start plaing good. If you don' t play (for a month, like in my case), first few games you play like an idiot so PRACTICE!

2. Why everybody plays the Wartrike instead of Warbos on Warbike? I' m on two warbosses right now and it is significantly better.
- spare 5p per unit
- significantly smaller unit easier to hide and avoid traffic jam in my deploy.
- one vehicle less. One point on bring it down less.
- smaller base for Speedking aura - well.. the aura is pretty weak, so who cares?
- OBSEC biker misile able to sneak between the units. Last time in Bomb Mission n.12 this was a pure gold! Just zoom in T3-T5 20” around the corner deep in to enemy deploy, plant a bomb for 4VP in the far corner far away from any objective and lock there one or two strong opponent units for turn to kill the dangerous warboss (or seems to be dangerous) and than potentialy lock another for turn or two to difuse the bomb. And next turn again. Last game it was pure 15VP on bombs for me and it wins me a game.


3. In fact, right now I offer the opponent 19 VP on Bring it down. But 13 of this are hidding Koptas and 3 Squigbuggies. The same units are TTL. All hard to kill. So in fact Bring it down is a little bit a trap on my opponents now. Because if they kill whats left - 2 wazbooms and 2 MSJs, it' s just 6 VP.

4. Flyboyz on my wazbooms seems to be the best use of specialist mob I ever have. It saves so many, so many!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anybody of you faced the new Eldar? I gonna play againts Biel-Tan and I have really no idea what is it. Wahapedia and Battlescribe still out of date.

cody.d. wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
"Receiving benefit of cover" is refering to cover in general.
Kommandos dont have a 3+ when not in Light Cover but they do get the +2 to the save, because they are still benefiting from "Cover" in some sense. The same applies to their melee ability, if the combat is in cover of some form it goes off.

Had their rule specifically called out LIght Cover then yeah they wouldnt get jack in dense terrain.

Their ability throat slittaz though is incredibly far reaching. A terrain feature includes pretty much everything, including hills. If the board has inbuilt hills deciding when you're in range of it is gonna be a pain in the butt.

No. That is not right. Hills or tops of the containers are EXPOSED POSITION

But, are they terrain features? The answer is, by definition yes.
"Throat Slittas: Each time a model in this unit makes a melee attack, if it is within 1" of a terrain feature, add 1 to that attack’s wound roll."
"There are four categories of terrain features: Hills, Obstacles, Area Terrain, and Buildings."

You are correct for Throat Slittas. You get the +1 to wound but not the +2 to armor. I personally like it when I get both "Sorry, my 12pt Kommandos are in Heavy cover so they get 3+ saves, also they will be wounding your T8 vehicle on 4s because WAAAAAGH!"

 Grotrebel wrote:

Im not a 100% sure about this, but we might be able to cheese in 2 or even 3 different clans still.
Let's say main army is DS and I take a Goff patrol on top with Zagstruk and a unit of Trukkboys.
The monofaction rules only states the keyword must be the same if its selectable.
But both have a fixed keyword, Zagstruk Goffs and Trukkboys for the boys. (Or orrible Gitz Gretchin)
That way you could also sneak in another clans WL trait, it has to be their specific one though.

Same would be possible for auxiliary detachments but those don't get Clan traits.

It seems like it works. I'm not sure it's incredibly useful, but if I have to choose between Mozrog with +1 to wound and a unit of truck boys or a regular squig boss right now, I think Mozrog easily wins. Also has an absolute unit of a model.

I'm not sure Goff pressure wants either necessarily though, given their exorbitant cost, but it is interesting. A lot of folks still like the squig boss.

But yeah, on further looking at the rules and chatting with folks:

1) CA2022 states that UNITS must follow the same subfaction restriction, excluding named characters, not detachments. So having a Goff + Snakebite detachment, although wonky, seems to technically work here.

2) Excluding the SC restriction earlier in the book, you cannot mix different clans in the same detachment anymore. So Moz must be in a snakebite detachment.

3) The only way around Goff + Snakebite breaking CA2022 is if your troop choice is a specialist detachment, as they lose their <CLAN> keyword for a fixed one (so 'orrible gits or truck boys).

So it's not as permissive as I thought. But it does mean there doesn't seem to be any reason why Mozrog wouldn't get his clan bonus of +1 to wound, which actually makes him even better than I originally thought. 6 attacks at 7 2 3 plus the 3 White Squig attacks, still able to be buffed by fists of gork, with innate +1 to wound will absolutely slap over a regular squig boss given this heavy -1 damage meta. And his squig does 4 MW instead of 3.

If you're taking a Squig boss, worth thinking about at least.

Edit: and given now their absolute point differential is lower (15 vs 25 points) and percentage difference is better (145 vs 170, 170 vs 185), the tradeoff is far easier to swallow. Before there wasn't much point.

Haven't played much lately. How do we fare against the new codexes like tau, custodes and elves?

Elves I can't really say. Gonna have my second game against them today. They have a lot of different tools and good but expensive units. I think we will know more in a few weeks when / if there are popular builds.

Custodes are tough and can still hurt our shooting with their banner.
They can somewhat ignore their bad primary matchup against as with a few good secondaries like psychic interrogation with an Inquisitor or stuff like grind / stranglehold.
The bikes are nasty and a nightmare to shift.
Those 4++ saves and T6 5 wounds are tough to chew through. Also they have a lot of utility strats like transhuman or tanglefood granades that can ruin our day. Also everything besides Bikes has ObSec, so they are surprisingly good in holding objectives.

Try to kill the Bikes fast and you can decide where the fight is and establish board control.
And pray his 4++ Bikes don't roll hot.


Tau have lots of Crisis in their popular builds, which are fantastic in killing our stuff. Airburst and SMS puts out a lot of indirect fire while Cyclic Ion Blasters S8 D2 3 shots and Plasma S8 D3 is o real pain for our vehicles.
They mostly have BS4+ but markerlights give them +1 to hit with commanders handing out rr 1s and Shadow Sun working like a chapter master.
They have multiple sources of wound rerolls and +1 to wound. Normally they will go for Montka instead of Kauyon, which boosts their mobility and dmg output turn 1-3 (advance and shoot + reroll 1 to wound in a certain distance)
Breachers in Devilfish have seen some play (up to 3 can disembark after moving and have a horrendous output), but they have a short range. So if you see a Devilfish with breachers inside kill it ASAP.

All units can take multiple Drones. They work a bit different, right now they are basically part of the unit with Shielddrones having 2 wounds and a 4++. That's enough to tank the first damage, so you either need to chip away as many Drones as possible turn 1 to get the damage where it needs to be.
Big shootas are great for that, as are Dakkajets. (Who are not bad against Crisis in General as all the Suits are T5.)

You'll mainly see Borkan (+4" range & a strat to make 1 gun ignore invulns & ranged attacks under S8 get -1S) or Farsight Enclave Allied world (basically Farsight but can take Ethereals for extra CP and a 5+++ buff. Trait with +1 to hit under 12" and a full reroll / hit strat)
Tau Sept has 3 redeploys, combined with stuff like infiltrating Stealth Suits or shadow sun and pulling them back after deploying can disturb your Kommandos.

A few other things:

If he has a homing beacon (probably with Stealth Suits) he can deepstrike turn 1 near them.

Kroot have a 7" Pregame move and are the Tau solution to board control. Kill them fast to prevent the Tau from scoring.

Let's of indirect fire and a move shoot move strat makes it hard to get a grip on those nasty Battlesuits.
He will probably try to cripple your army turn 1-3 and score afterwards.
Try to keep some stuff back and move block his stuff. They can shoot and do actions, so keep that in mind.
Tau really like Nachmund data but need to max it out turn 3-5.
If they have Vespids try to screen out your 2 quarters until turn 3 to make it harder.

Tau will Out damage you most of the time put score later. Anything that steals them VP is good. Sneak a squad of boys on their Objectives as often as possible. Commanders with 2 Drones can do engage, if he takes it try to kill one with a few Pistol shots or boy attacks, even if you don't kill the commander. Tag stuff as often as possible. Only one unit can fallback and shoot. He can shoot in close combat but that prevents your other units of getting shot at. He can only shoot in engagement range, so if its possible Tag only 1 suit or a Drone and he basically has no shooting if he forgets to pile in.

It's quite probable you get tabled but still win the game.

The warboss on bike vrs the wartrike for speedmob debate is a tough one.

I'm currently running two warbosses on bikes but am considering changing one to a wartrike.

The primary reason is to help with engage which I've been having success with. The wartrike can score it but the warboss can't.

The larger base would be helpful for auras as Personally I've found the speed king aura excellent especially if I keep the character alive. Your point about the ease with which to hide the bikerboss is valid here though

I played knights (4 armigers, gallant, crusader and valiant)this weekend and despite a shaky start came out with a comprehensive win. Putting the two wazbomms into reserve is the job and using them with the reroll 1s to hit within 12" is awesome. Ap-2 ranged is optimal against the majority of knights and the speed of the deffkoptas especially meant I ran away with the scoring at the end.

I took RnD for the 3rd time but messed it up by using the warbikers to fight. As a secondary I still think it's the best of a bad bunch. The fact you can't start GtGB while there is an opponent on an objective means it's easily countered.

I've found I'm maxing primaries ironically because speedmob appears to be good at scoring the new "tertiary" missions.

Im really enjoying the evil sunz and while the thought of wazbomms hitting on 3s with freebootas does appeal I can't bring myself to change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of the newer codices I've only played custodes. Focus on the bikes early as the rest of the army is surprisingly slow (especially compared to speedmob). Based on advice from here I stayed out of combat and used firepower. However, I played against a guy running a take all comers list so he had the +1 to save rather than the -1 to hit. I can only imagine that would cause us some real issues.

SemperMortis wrote:

cody.d. wrote:


You are correct for Throat Slittas. You get the +1 to wound but not the +2 to armor. I personally like it when I get both "Sorry, my 12pt Kommandos are in Heavy cover so they get 3+ saves, also they will be wounding your T8 vehicle on 4s because WAAAAAGH!"

Ah, so your fave flavour is goffs too huh? A man of Kulture I see.

I do so wish we had gotten a build your own type Kulture thing, feels like we missed out on that.

How is everyone's games going with Orks since the new codexes for other factions have come out? Going to a tournament soon and I'm doubtful buggies will hold up like they were

Custodes and Tau are both brutal match ups. Orks had a 43% win rate this past weekend at GT and above events, with no top 10 places.

 Dendarien wrote:
Custodes and Tau are both brutal match ups. Orks had a 43% win rate this past weekend at GT and above events, with no top 10 places.

Nonsence.

1. Tau and Custodes screwed the meta so, that everybody has under 50% win rate. 43 is actually pretty good.
2. Scroll back 1 page. In last Competitive innovation, there were about 5 in top 5 incl. one first place. I posted there the lists.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Keramory wrote:
How is everyone's games going with Orks since the new codexes for other factions have come out? Going to a tournament soon and I'm doubtful buggies will hold up like they were

Not top tier but definitely in the second line.
Freeboota buggy spam is dead.

Now the top builds are AoR Speed Mob (mostly ES, but also FB or BA) and Goff tempo built mostly around some Killrigs and Trukkboyz. Filtre my posts there from ladt few weeks. I do a short notes from the weekly CI on Goonhammer.

Keramory wrote:
How is everyone's games going with Orks since the new codexes for other factions have come out? Going to a tournament soon and I'm doubtful buggies will hold up like they were

I haven't played against new tau yet, but based on the lists i'm seeing dominating top lists...they will get utterly obliterated by the end of turn 3. Custards...not as sure, but that salvo launcher on a relatively cheap model is designed to feth up buggies almost perfectly

Custodes can be countered well with vehicle heavy lists (particularly speedmobz) if and only if you focus down their jetbikes early. Their infantry struggles into buggies (and deffkoptas) with only s7 d2 and their high ap means nothing if you advance and get a 5++.

I haven't played into a dread heavy list only a bike and footstodes. Plane borne Supra shootas are pretty effective into the infantry.

Keramory wrote:
How is everyone's games going with Orks since the new codexes for other factions have come out? Going to a tournament soon and I'm doubtful buggies will hold up like they were

I'll have to get back to you after Sat. about that.....
Sat launches our newest Crusade & is the day I finally put an Ork on the table outside a KT game. I have a 1/6chance of drawing the only Tau player as an opponent.

Speed Mob can counter Custodes as was said - kill the bikers and than run away and score around TTL, Engage, Bitz or Data. Except bikers and some dreads their shooting is weak and they are slow.

Tau are a different kind of the problem. I decided to ignore them and start solving them after some nerf that shall drop soon. I hope…

Now I play just my inner game - put half of the army into deepstrike and come T2 and the more I kill the better. That´ s it.

Once I ´ ve even won this way but the opponent was nice but quite a confused guy.

It would be awesome if Grot Mega tanks could be used in Speed Mobs. You'd think they would be fast enough with a chance to go 18 inches with an advance.. They are essentially more beefier buggies.

Had another game today against Tau, again trying how horde would work.
Tripple Blood Axe patrol:


Tau had all the Crisis cheese you could imagine as Farsight allied world:

Mission was death & zeal (the circle deployment one) so i was fairly close with a lot of stuff.
5 + 3 + 3 of his Crisis were waiting in Manta strike and all Crisis units and Commanders had 2-4 Drones with a mix of mostly shield drones and a few marker drones.

Da plan was having lots of CP with the various relics / traits and utilise the good BA strats.
Also my 3 MA HQ`s were the TTL targets as i kept all other stuff under 115 points (thus only 9 Kommandos)
We both took TTL, RND and Stranglehold as secondaries.

He deployed his Stealthsuits first, so i had not many great angles for my Kommandos. I went first and called da Waaagh, killing all Kroot but 1 squad and 3 units charging his CIB / Flamer / Plasma squad. 1 mob died to overwatch, the others killed all the dones but the chef with 2+ & 4+++ tanked the rest of my attacks.
I had hold back 10 Stormboys, 10 Kommandos, 2 x 3 Bikers, 10 Boys and 30 Getchin for later turns and used them for screening and RND.
His second turn he killed 15 Stormboys, 20 Kommandos and 10 Boys.
His Flamer Commander failed to kill the Stormboys he had intervened into in my turn and with 2 turns of mellee and using Youngbloods twice i was able to finish him of in his turn because of his poor saves.

My second turn the remaining Stormboys managed to sneak behind him and kill the Ethereal.
1 Trukk ate the Overwatch of the big Crisis Team, but both Warboss and other Boys failed to make the 9" & 8" charges.
But i had 4/5 objectives, a good amount of infantry left and was pushing him back hard.
With a few sneaky advances and good charges / pile ins i was able to screen out the whole table, so his second turn none of his Crisis could enter the table. This was a huge advantage, while i would not do much more damage it helped scoring and prevent him from scoring a lot.
In his turn he killed the remaining Stormboys and small stuff near his army, but since i managed to tag only single models in his units he could not shoot a lot in close combat and with his Crisis Commander dead he lost the ability to fall back and shoot.
He killed all immidate threads but overall it was ok for me.

Turn 3 i was not able to screen out the whole table, but i used the remaining units to block everything but a 6"x12" square far back in his deployment zone.
Another Trukk died in Overwatch but the Warboss only killed one Crisis while i needed all other units to score and screen.
His turn 3 reserves arrived and i lost the Warboss, all remaining Kommandos, Stormboys and Boys and had only 30 Gretchin, the Wyrdboy and the two Meks left.

My 4th turn i managed to sneak off a last Stranglehold and pulled back my two TTL Meks while jumping 10 Gretchin onto an objective doing no damage.
Now with the table open he tried to score as much as possible and the Tau managed to score 14 primaries each turn 4+5 and finally some stranglehold and RND, but the gap was too big.
His last shooting unit managed to kill the Cybork Big Mek after auto advancing 6" with a strat who failed 4 out of 6 invuls, otherwise i would have scored 10 for TTL.

In the end i won 85:73 but had only 1 Mek, 1 Wyrdboy and 10 Gretchin left. Only things i had killed were all the Kroot, the Crisis Commander, the Ethereal and 1 Crisis model.
But hey, the plan worked!


Fazit for me: The output of a Farsight Crisis list is scary as hell and they are pretty tanky on top of that. Being Goffs would get me a bit more damage, but hosetly it doesn`t matter that much and the BA flexibility is worth it.
If you face Tau you absolutely need to know how to max out movement and especially pile ins and consolidation moves. He can only shoot in engagement range, so try to tag as few models as possible and kill as many of your models in engagement range as possible in your turn, as it will minimise his shooting, especially if he fails to remember to use all of his 6" free movement. Use his drones to tag him as much as possible, it`s possible to tag them without any of his models being able to shoot at all.
The Tau Commanders hand out different buffs. Kill those that work against you (Crisis Commander = fall back & shoot, Enforcer hands out ObSec, Coldstar gives an 8" advance).
Try to moveblock his RND units, i was able to prevent RND turns 2 + 3. Look out as the Ethereal has an shoot & action ability wich can make for sneaky RND plays combined with 8" (Coldstar) or 6" (strat) auto advance and still shooting while Mont`Ka (turn 1-3) being also a thing to look out for when screening and when the Tau is trying to set up later RND actions.
You might see deepstriking Vespids for that as well, and you need to prevent any scoring you can, so ty to keep that screen up. Remember RND needs to be 6" away from other quarters, so it`s not that hard to block it at least when you have enough stuff left.

Mont`Ka buffs only work on the nearest eligable unit, thats also a good way to deny extra damage if you get small units in the way or use trukks for that.
If you have big guns, shoot Big Shootas first. As soon as he decides to tank it with the tanky Crisis in each unit (he can have 1/3 models with a 2+ and 1 dude in the army with a once-per-game 4+++ upgrade), shoot big guns next, even if he has not lost ony wounds, he still must allocate the next wounds on that model.
Also remember Ramming Speed and Da crushing armour + other MW sources. All of them are gold.
I`m actually considering Dakkajes as a unit to remove Drones, even the humble Squigbuggy might be an option the chip them off.
But prepare for a lot of damage to bounce off, so if you can`t kill him rather use your stuff to kill his Kroot units. Those are the ones that help him score and as soon as those are dead the juice targets need to commit to that dirty work.

Stealth suits can have an upgrade that allows him to deep strike turn 1 and they can infiltrate. So if you deploy first, instantly use 1 Mob of Kommandos to screen out the worst shooting angle you can imagine. And if you have the chance to take them out turn 1, do it. Be aware of the -1 to hit in shooting and close combat though. Besides that they have solid overwatch and can take shield drones as well.

In the regular lists Tau have 1 option to fall back & shoot and 1 option for shoot and do actions, so try to use that against him. Both are Command Phase abilities with Ethereal 6" and Commander 9" range, so check what units might profit and which won`t.


Tau probably will outshoot you, which makes them really scary in the meta right now, but they are still bad at scoring. They can easily win by shooting all your stuff turn 1-3, but need to score turn 4-5. Keep that in mind, go for 4 VP instead of a unsafe charge if you`re unsure and you will change the game in your favor.
Your list needs to have a solid gameplan for all missions. Some prevent scouting, some have 5 or 6 objectives, so look at all of them and think whats the most i can score without killing stuff. Especially against Tau you won`t get more than 5-10 for any kill secondary, unless they really spam infantry or you feel confident you can kill lots of Crisis. Squads of 3 will give away 2 VP and squads of 5 3 VP, but those big squads will probably be TTL targets and often stay out of line of sight, stay back and occasionally get the 5+++ prayer by the Ethereal if they might get in danger. With all the Drones and the Kroot i would have barely get over 50 wounds for just 6 VP, all my other secondaries had at least 5 VP (bad luck TTL) and the 8 for RND.



Today it went well, but tbh even if i would`t have lost the Mek it would still only have been about 15 VP difference and besides 2 failed charges it went nearly perfect today.
He made a few little mistakes (falling back and staying in melee with the Commander to flame away Stormboys was a bit risky and he should have just deployed the second squad of 5 Crisis with Airburst) but i did so as well, so there really isn`t much room for much error. Also it is really tight on a clock, the game took about 3-3,5h i guess.
I guess the horde list might work, especially if the Tau player does not know very well what to do against that, but i think i will still switch for Speedmob for the next tournament.
Hopefully i can get a few games in against Custodes, Crusher Stampede and Eldar. Might change my mind if that goes well.

If it makes you feel better, that's the list Siegs fielded in his the AoW RTT they did on their channel recently.

So he was just using a net list. Guess Siegs is a better general.

Really helpful breakdown grotrebel. May I ask what stops the tau player just piling in more crisis suits in the fight phase to ensure the max number of guys get to shoot in his next shooting phase?

I really like the way you screened out T2. Im running 25 bikes (which can take up a huge amount of real estate and with drive by dakka that could be worth trying against the large crisis suit bombs.

Aand this week top ork lists from competitive innovation:

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