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2022/03/11 12:22:37
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I'm definitely not changing my Alphork list because it doesn't mesh, but what is everyone's opinion on the battlewagons now? I still think they are too heavily priced for what little they do, especially in a game where Tau just got released, but what do you guys think?
SemperMortis wrote: I'm definitely not changing my Alphork list because it doesn't mesh, but what is everyone's opinion on the battlewagons now? I still think they are too heavily priced for what little they do, especially in a game where Tau just got released, but what do you guys think?
They’ve been great in my games so far. They do fine in CC with the rolla and are much harder to kill than trukks. Against tau they give you a bunker that doesn’t instantly die to indirect. I’m also moving away from trukk boy MANz to Goff MANz since I play against a lot of custodes. Trukk boy MANz just bounce off custodes.
2022/03/11 19:47:29
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: I'm definitely not changing my Alphork list because it doesn't mesh, but what is everyone's opinion on the battlewagons now? I still think they are too heavily priced for what little they do, especially in a game where Tau just got released, but what do you guys think?
They’ve been great in my games so far. They do fine in CC with the rolla and are much harder to kill than trukks. Against tau they give you a bunker that doesn’t instantly die to indirect. I’m also moving away from trukk boy MANz to Goff MANz since I play against a lot of custodes. Trukk boy MANz just bounce off custodes.
I think 1 or 2 are pretty ok as well. I'm a fan of meganobz and battlewagons, so I might overvalue them a bit but so far I never felt like I was handicapping myself when I bring those (pretty much everytime since late 8th ). I'm curious about other players' responses though, since I haven't had the chance to face the new tau so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 20:13:37
2022/03/11 21:25:43
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: I'm definitely not changing my Alphork list because it doesn't mesh, but what is everyone's opinion on the battlewagons now? I still think they are too heavily priced for what little they do, especially in a game where Tau just got released, but what do you guys think?
They’ve been great in my games so far. They do fine in CC with the rolla and are much harder to kill than trukks. Against tau they give you a bunker that doesn’t instantly die to indirect. I’m also moving away from trukk boy MANz to Goff MANz since I play against a lot of custodes. Trukk boy MANz just bounce off custodes.
I think 1 or 2 are pretty ok as well. I'm a fan of meganobz and battlewagons, so I might overvalue them a bit but so far I never felt like I was handicapping myself when I bring those (pretty much everytime since late 8th ). I'm curious about other players' responses though, since I haven't had the chance to face the new tau so far.
For what it is worth Mark Perry went 5-1 at the Cherokee Open here with 18 MANz, 3 Kanz, and 2 wagons beating multiple custodes and a triple stormsurge tau list.
2022/03/11 22:21:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: Really helpful breakdown grotrebel. May I ask what stops the tau player just piling in more crisis suits in the fight phase to ensure the max number of guys get to shoot in his next shooting phase?
I really like the way you screened out T2. Im running 25 bikes (which can take up a huge amount of real estate and with drive by dakka that could be worth trying against the large crisis suit bombs.
Well there is actually a lot you can do to prevent him from piling in:
Utilize terrain. They have huge bases so if you stay away 1" from ruins they can`t move over but aren`t in engagement range as well.
Use other units. He needs to pile towards the nearest unit. Either you can sacrifive a unit you don`t care about or move something like a trukk there that won`t care about Airbursts or move Boys towards Plasma Crisis as those won`t kill many Boys.
Also he needs to stay in coherency, which limits his .piles if you get close on multiple angles.
If you have 1 spot with most of the drones it`s good to stay there, as they can block the Crisis`movement.
Broadsides will kill 1 few Boys and so will Crisis if you are in luck. So you can kill those that give him the most models in Engagement range, as he can`t decide not to fight. So he either isn`t in engagement range at all or might kill just enough to help you get as few models as possible in engagement range.
On top of that, unfamiliar Tau players will most likely use the full 2 x 3", so that might work in your favor as well. My regular Tau opponent is quite skilled tho, so i can`t get much out those sneaky moves. Sometimes it must just be enough to prevent 2-3 models from shooting. It`s important to fokus the right Crisis units as well. Infantry heavy lists should fokus the Airburst squads while Speedmob needs to take out the Cyclic / Plasma dudes first.
I actually trained the pile in stuff with charges & piles against empty bases. Remember the charge move has no directional restrictions, so sometimes it`s better to set up a good position and don`t fokus on maximum damage.
So, today i had my 6th or 7th game against the new Tau, again against the 21 Crisis list with Stealth Suits, 2 Commanders, Ethereal and Kroot.
Today i went for Speed Mob:
I tellyported the 3 Scrapjets and put the 2 Wazboms and 3 Dragstas in strategic reserve. He had 5 + 3 + 3 Crisis in Manta strike as last game.
My secondaries were Grind them down, Assassinate and Engage, he took Bring it down, TTL and the Tau one with actions in the middle of the 4 board edges.
I decided to skip the Koptas as they are super CP heavy, die fast, don`t have ObSec as the Bikes and give away so many easy Bring it Down points.
Mission was the one were you get to move 2 objectives and choose a primary one.
I went first and my Bikes managed a sneaky charge on his Stealth Suits supported my Squigbuggy firesupport. I played the rest very passively, so i only lost 3 Bikes as he had deployed cagey as well and there were no good shooting angles.
Orks turn 2 the Waaagh was called and i tellyported in my Scrapjets supported by 1 Wazbom. Together with the suicidal ObSec Warbikes i managed to kill a few Drones and wipe the large Cyclic / Plasma squad but nothing else. I was able to screen out my half of the table but because of that has onll limited shooting.
The Tau dropped in 2 x 3 Crisis for both reroll strats and killed the Wazbom, 3 more Bikes, 1 Boosta Blasta and chipped of a few wounds of the Scrapjets and Squigbuggies without killing them. Quite good actually!
My 3rd turn i was able to screen just enough to prevent his last squad to drop in behind me. The 2nd Wazbom and the Dragstas came in and together with 1 KBB, the Scrapjets and a few shots from the Bikes and the Squigbuggies i was able to kill 2/5 Airburst Crisis and killed one of the 2 3-man-crisis Teams. So far i have been scoring good on primaries because i was able to keep my primary one safe and had 2-3 of the 5 objectives turn 2-3.
My Dragstas totally failed my and only killed 1 Crisis total, but my KBB was able to make a 9" charge on his Ethereal and shoot / ram / saw him to death. Take that, greater good!
The Tau counter was brutal as well, killing the second Wazbom, 3 Dragstas, the last 3 Bikes and 2 Scrapjets.
I knew the game was changing in his favor, so i focused on 1 Commander for Assassinate but he survived with his -1 dmg and the 5+++. Also going for scoring engage and minimising his primary score. The Squigbuggies were closing in for maximum Dakka and all my stuff was getting of a few last shots from the objectives.
Tau turn finished off the last KBB and Scrapjet, but he had not much left: 5 + 2 Crisis, 1 Commander and a few Kroot, i had left the Trike, 3 Squigbuggies and the Snazzwagon.
We were playing on clock, so i missed to get engage a last time by 0,5" as i only had sub 5mins left and needed to finish my shooting / charging for Assassinate.
All my remaining dakka went into his two commanders turn 5 and i managed to kill one, he countered with killing 2 Squigbuggies, scoring 12 + 3 primaries turn 4 & 5 and doing 2 / 4 of the Tau actions.
Final score was 75:74 for me, i think that was my closest game in 9th edition so far! Would have made 77 if i thought about that last engage, but in the end it was enough.
Well, as i feared, Speed Mob is stell the better option against Tau. It can kill enough stuff to compensate bad scoring. Also the Airburst don`t do much against Speed Mob, and with reserves you have enough flexibility to get where you need to be and prevent you stuff from getting killed without doing damage before.
Squigbuggies and Scrapjets are fantastic to chip of Drones. As soon as he takes any wound on a Crisis, the Big Guns shoot so he needs to allocate Tellyport Blasta and the like on the same model.
I didn`t miss the Koptas very much. I love them but i think i`d only play them with ES but i prefer BA.
Actually i rate Blood Axes as our best clan right now considering the meta and the new mission pack.
As long as Tau and Custodes stay the way they are Alphork is dead for me. It works in a semi competitive environment but i don`t see it going anywhere against 20+ Crisis with all that Airburst.
Only other build i can imagine is going for a mixed list with Freebooters Dakka supported by a bit of stuff like Stormboys and Kommandos to have a bit of secondary flexibility.
Thats at least an almost safe 8 VP for RND and help with better Engage and other stuff.
@Battlewagon: Boomer might be ok against Tau with T8 i guess? You need to screen against Manta strike Crisis anyway and it will at least have a little bit of dakka.
I was actually considering it again for mone detachment Speed Mob as i have allready 6 FA slots and loved the amount of CP i had.
If only GW could give the FW stuff a proper upgrade. Nob Bikers, Kannonwagon or Grot tanks could add a lot to Speed Mob and open the field for more diverse lists.
2022/03/12 18:18:21
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: I’ll be surprised if attack out da sun gets errata now that critical mass book is on last chance to buy… lol… the book won’t even be sold anymore.
The exact moment AODS gets errata will be the moment I start playing it RAW.
SemperMortis wrote: I'm definitely not changing my Alphork list because it doesn't mesh, but what is everyone's opinion on the battlewagons now? I still think they are too heavily priced for what little they do, especially in a game where Tau just got released, but what do you guys think?
In my experience they are a solid choice with their current price tag, but they are by no means a competitive unit. There is just too much out there that hard-counters them, so you cannot reasonable expect to place well in a tournament with them unless you get lucky.
I guess it's difficult to put points on a vehicle that might either be fairly durable or paper thin depending on which guns your opponent has.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/03/13 13:12:22
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: Really helpful breakdown grotrebel. May I ask what stops the tau player just piling in more crisis suits in the fight phase to ensure the max number of guys get to shoot in his next shooting phase?
I really like the way you screened out T2. Im running 25 bikes (which can take up a huge amount of real estate and with drive by dakka that could be worth trying against the large crisis suit bombs.
Well there is actually a lot you can do to prevent him from piling in:
Utilize terrain. They have huge bases so if you stay away 1" from ruins they can`t move over but aren`t in engagement range as well.
Use other units. He needs to pile towards the nearest unit. Either you can sacrifive a unit you don`t care about or move something like a trukk there that won`t care about Airbursts or move Boys towards Plasma Crisis as those won`t kill many Boys.
Also he needs to stay in coherency, which limits his .piles if you get close on multiple angles.
If you have 1 spot with most of the drones it`s good to stay there, as they can block the Crisis`movement.
Broadsides will kill 1 few Boys and so will Crisis if you are in luck. So you can kill those that give him the most models in Engagement range, as he can`t decide not to fight. So he either isn`t in engagement range at all or might kill just enough to help you get as few models as possible in engagement range.
On top of that, unfamiliar Tau players will most likely use the full 2 x 3", so that might work in your favor as well. My regular Tau opponent is quite skilled tho, so i can`t get much out those sneaky moves. Sometimes it must just be enough to prevent 2-3 models from shooting. It`s important to fokus the right Crisis units as well. Infantry heavy lists should fokus the Airburst squads while Speedmob needs to take out the Cyclic / Plasma dudes first.
I actually trained the pile in stuff with charges & piles against empty bases. Remember the charge move has no directional restrictions, so sometimes it`s better to set up a good position and don`t fokus on maximum damage.
So, today i had my 6th or 7th game against the new Tau, again against the 21 Crisis list with Stealth Suits, 2 Commanders, Ethereal and Kroot.
Today i went for Speed Mob:
I tellyported the 3 Scrapjets and put the 2 Wazboms and 3 Dragstas in strategic reserve. He had 5 + 3 + 3 Crisis in Manta strike as last game.
My secondaries were Grind them down, Assassinate and Engage, he took Bring it down, TTL and the Tau one with actions in the middle of the 4 board edges.
I decided to skip the Koptas as they are super CP heavy, die fast, don`t have ObSec as the Bikes and give away so many easy Bring it Down points.
Mission was the one were you get to move 2 objectives and choose a primary one.
I went first and my Bikes managed a sneaky charge on his Stealth Suits supported my Squigbuggy firesupport. I played the rest very passively, so i only lost 3 Bikes as he had deployed cagey as well and there were no good shooting angles.
Orks turn 2 the Waaagh was called and i tellyported in my Scrapjets supported by 1 Wazbom. Together with the suicidal ObSec Warbikes i managed to kill a few Drones and wipe the large Cyclic / Plasma squad but nothing else. I was able to screen out my half of the table but because of that has onll limited shooting.
The Tau dropped in 2 x 3 Crisis for both reroll strats and killed the Wazbom, 3 more Bikes, 1 Boosta Blasta and chipped of a few wounds of the Scrapjets and Squigbuggies without killing them. Quite good actually!
My 3rd turn i was able to screen just enough to prevent his last squad to drop in behind me. The 2nd Wazbom and the Dragstas came in and together with 1 KBB, the Scrapjets and a few shots from the Bikes and the Squigbuggies i was able to kill 2/5 Airburst Crisis and killed one of the 2 3-man-crisis Teams. So far i have been scoring good on primaries because i was able to keep my primary one safe and had 2-3 of the 5 objectives turn 2-3.
My Dragstas totally failed my and only killed 1 Crisis total, but my KBB was able to make a 9" charge on his Ethereal and shoot / ram / saw him to death. Take that, greater good!
The Tau counter was brutal as well, killing the second Wazbom, 3 Dragstas, the last 3 Bikes and 2 Scrapjets.
I knew the game was changing in his favor, so i focused on 1 Commander for Assassinate but he survived with his -1 dmg and the 5+++. Also going for scoring engage and minimising his primary score. The Squigbuggies were closing in for maximum Dakka and all my stuff was getting of a few last shots from the objectives.
Tau turn finished off the last KBB and Scrapjet, but he had not much left: 5 + 2 Crisis, 1 Commander and a few Kroot, i had left the Trike, 3 Squigbuggies and the Snazzwagon.
We were playing on clock, so i missed to get engage a last time by 0,5" as i only had sub 5mins left and needed to finish my shooting / charging for Assassinate.
All my remaining dakka went into his two commanders turn 5 and i managed to kill one, he countered with killing 2 Squigbuggies, scoring 12 + 3 primaries turn 4 & 5 and doing 2 / 4 of the Tau actions.
Final score was 75:74 for me, i think that was my closest game in 9th edition so far! Would have made 77 if i thought about that last engage, but in the end it was enough.
Well, as i feared, Speed Mob is stell the better option against Tau. It can kill enough stuff to compensate bad scoring. Also the Airburst don`t do much against Speed Mob, and with reserves you have enough flexibility to get where you need to be and prevent you stuff from getting killed without doing damage before.
Squigbuggies and Scrapjets are fantastic to chip of Drones. As soon as he takes any wound on a Crisis, the Big Guns shoot so he needs to allocate Tellyport Blasta and the like on the same model.
I didn`t miss the Koptas very much. I love them but i think i`d only play them with ES but i prefer BA.
Actually i rate Blood Axes as our best clan right now considering the meta and the new mission pack.
As long as Tau and Custodes stay the way they are Alphork is dead for me. It works in a semi competitive environment but i don`t see it going anywhere against 20+ Crisis with all that Airburst.
Only other build i can imagine is going for a mixed list with Freebooters Dakka supported by a bit of stuff like Stormboys and Kommandos to have a bit of secondary flexibility.
Thats at least an almost safe 8 VP for RND and help with better Engage and other stuff.
@Battlewagon: Boomer might be ok against Tau with T8 i guess? You need to screen against Manta strike Crisis anyway and it will at least have a little bit of dakka.
I was actually considering it again for mone detachment Speed Mob as i have allready 6 FA slots and loved the amount of CP i had.
If only GW could give the FW stuff a proper upgrade. Nob Bikers, Kannonwagon or Grot tanks could add a lot to Speed Mob and open the field for more diverse lists.
why blood axe speed mob?
i ask because when i look at blood axe most of the blood axe stratagems don't work on speed mob units.
only thing that makes me think maybe is cp gain from certain relics and warlord traits
maybe TAKTICAL AWARENESS
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/13 13:20:54
SMASH
2022/03/13 13:27:13
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I'd guess Blood Axes because of the CP and the redeploy from the WT.
Deciding after deployment to reposition an exposed unit or chuck the Wazbomms or a big blob of bikes into reserves for free is pretty strong, and the extra CP is great for all Speedmob strats.
2022/03/13 14:16:49
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Afrodactyl wrote: I'd guess Blood Axes because of the CP and the redeploy from the WT.
Deciding after deployment to reposition an exposed unit or chuck the Wazbomms or a big blob of bikes into reserves for free is pretty strong, and the extra CP is great for all Speedmob strats.
maybe but the ork version is weaker than other codex versions (because orks can't have nice things) as the redeployment happens before deciding who goes first.
if you put a unit into reserve and go first all you do is miss a round of shooting weakening your first turn advantage and strengthening your opponent as he will take less damage.
i find that ability to be a bit of a gamble unless used on a unit you know will do nothing in the first turn, like a unit of slow moving melee meganobs or something.
i just think its utility is a bit low for speed mobs, the wazbomb probably needs to be protected i guess
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/13 14:20:20
SMASH
2022/03/13 15:02:13
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
There are so many armies that will oneshot one or even both Wazboms, that i basically never field them, unless i face slow melee armies or can keep them out of range of enemy dakka.
Since they are Aircraft it`s almost impossible to hide them and you don`t want to loose 500 points just for going second.
The WL trait saves 3+ CP for reserves and i can still use it to redeploy stuff or put something else in reserve as well.
Also it does not count towards 50% reserve limit, so you could go for zero deploy with Speed Mob if you want to.
(Or at least hold back anything expensive besides the Squigbuggies who can hide together with Trike and some Bikes.)
The relic and other WL traits are just icing on the cake, as they provide a few extra CP or make strats cheaper.
Extra kunning is great, as you will use one strategic ploy strat almost every turn so thats good value.
Tactical Awareness is just awesome, as Speedmob has already limited angles to do actions and it provides us with a good tool for early actions without loosing damage.
But essentially it`s simply Blood Axes because you end up with 5+ more CP in the end and Speed Mob is quite CP heavy.
2022/03/13 15:29:32
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: I'm definitely not changing my Alphork list because it doesn't mesh, but what is everyone's opinion on the battlewagons now? I still think they are too heavily priced for what little they do, especially in a game where Tau just got released, but what do you guys think?
In my experience they are a solid choice with their current price tag, but they are by no means a competitive unit. There is just too much out there that hard-counters them, so you cannot reasonable expect to place well in a tournament with them unless you get lucky.
I guess it's difficult to put points on a vehicle that might either be fairly durable or paper thin depending on which guns your opponent has.
That analysis is exactly how I feel Jid. I was just surprised that we had an Ork player finish at Cherokee reasonably well with a couple wagons in it. It didn't make sense to me, especially in a meta where Tau just got buffed to an extreme level.
Depending on his opponents, I can totally see someone finishing well with them. If you manage to dodge the lists with high damage shots or at least go first against them you can totally place well with such a list. A single bad matchup can completely kick you out of the competition though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks to Grotrebel for doing some housekeeping on the first post, I currently don't have the time to give the first post proper attention.
He updated the rules parts, the tier list has not been updated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/13 18:46:13
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/03/13 20:04:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Ok guys, I am having a relatively tough time here on choosing secondaries for Alphork strike list. Behind enemy lines is a no-brainer, but after that i'm just not sure. I just had a practice game and won while only dropping 6pts but it was a bad matchup and against tougher opponents I think I would run into a lot of problems getting that. I also got lucky with a really good mission secondary that tied into my armies theme incredibly well.
So please, lets here some suggestions. Keep in mind, I am running Alphork strike list whose sole purpose is to push the enemy into their deployment zone and keep them bottled up the whole game.
SemperMortis wrote: Ok guys, I am having a relatively tough time here on choosing secondaries for Alphork strike list. Behind enemy lines is a no-brainer, but after that i'm just not sure. I just had a practice game and won while only dropping 6pts but it was a bad matchup and against tougher opponents I think I would run into a lot of problems getting that. I also got lucky with a really good mission secondary that tied into my armies theme incredibly well.
So please, lets here some suggestions. Keep in mind, I am running Alphork strike list whose sole purpose is to push the enemy into their deployment zone and keep them bottled up the whole game.
Well
1. Bitz/Data seems to be fine with small squads of stormobyz?
2. Behind is tough. What about Engage? This should be pretty fine too.
3. Mighty and problematic third secondary. Hmmm…
- No prisoners becames with the new rules pretty OK. Check it. I used it againts custodes and despite the fact, I killed not so many of them, 9VP was in my pocket.
- I doubt you will have good units for TTL and you will have too many units for grind them down, right?
- I ignore the killy secondaries, because you should be ready to the opponents do not offer you assasinate, bring it down, etc.
- heureka! You can take a warp ritual!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, yesterday I took my SpeedMob to local tournament. 2 victories, one triple jetbike custodes with dreadnoughts in the “final”. Which was also fine, you can play a serious competitive game a drink a beer during the and know it doesnt matter….
First guy Black Templars - he was wiped out T4 but managed to score pretty well before on his secondaries. It was hard to stop him from scoring his faction specific (be in the midle, pass morale and something else).
Second battle - new Eldars Biel Tan - well it was fine. Good, different but not broken. A lot of buffs and magic dice tricks (hot 5 dice to hit, creates 10 wound rolls… ) etc and his infantry shooting was actualy not bad at all. But it' s soft. Dakkaguns clear them like a hell.
What should be a dangerous eldar will be the soup with Harlequins. Really a lot of move, advance and charge and moves after shooting and spared “guaranteed” rolls. That will be crazy. And lot of small hard dangerous in CC units flying around the table.
Lesson learned - Speedking aura is a piece of … I pimp the second warboss to be killy one too next time. In games exactly like this the second warboss for hunting enemy characters is what is super usefull.
Oh ses and his indirect fire s S7 D2 so after long time some important units that suffers by Ramshackle. His two tanks was able to kill one Kopta model per turn. Good to ignore it at all.
Last Custodes - what to say… there was 3 tournaments in Prague in last week and top 5 is always something like custodes-tau-tau-custodes-custodes-tau.
Some of these guys seems to be pretty bored their games ends after an hour.
List:
And I play TTL (koptas and RSB), Engage and mostly Bitz or killy as the third one.
Eldar.. i cant wait to try and face them. i havent really understood any of their rules since their change but i also havent really done any reading up on it either.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/03/14 15:15:32
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/03/14 17:35:10
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Hey guys, what do you think about these changes for our page 1 post?
Most of the changes come from FAQ`d stuff and otherwise the results of Jids survey a few weeks back and the stuff ork players kept using the last weeks in this thread and in tournaments as well. the survey results and the succesfull GT lists seem to be mostly identical, with a few outliners and 1,2 things to consider as the poll was pre-point nerf / 2022 mission pack.
In cases i changed the tier level from its original i put a +/- x in behind it to show if it went up or down and changed the tier colour to the new tier colour.
Specialist Mobs and Kustom Jobs didn`t really need an update, they were still fairly accurate. Only thing that got changed is a few things that were not up to date rules / FAQ wise.
(Stuff like if Deffdreads could use the Extra custom weapon custom job, etc.)
I put a few explanations in here and there and tried to consider all factors equally, so don`t crump me too hard but please give feedback if you think a rated some stuff off the charts.
So lets get started with Clans:
Spoiler:
Clans: (Last update: 2022-03-14)
Goffs Kulture: No Muckin' About Every roll of six in combat add one additional HIT (was attack in 8th) and +1S. Essentially everyone is skarboyz. This is an incredibly powerful melee buff, so if your are running multiple melee units (boyz!) this is the best trait to give them.
Warlord trait: Proper Killy (+1) Proper Killy is worse than almost every other trait. So there is no reason to give a warlord Proper Killy by choice, but Thrakka is locked into it. You can push the Beastboss to AP 3 though, which might be of use in edge cases. (Read: Stormshields & AP reducing traits)
Stratagem: Unbridled Carnage (+1) (2 CP) The goff trait triggers on fives instead of sixes, characters and core only. It might make a difference when you really have to make sure that you kill something, but at 2CP it's too expensive to use regularly.
Relic: Da Iron Gob After fighting, the model gets to headbut someone for d3 mortal wounds. I really don't see a character that I want to put this on, there are so many better relics out available.
Thoughts: As Goff Alphork lists with multiple characters have become a quite popular thing, Proper killy might be a valid choice if you take multiple traits. There are better traits out there like BBK, but as there are only 3 traits that push your damage it might be worth it.
Bad Moonz Kulture: Armed To Da Teef (-1) The extra range is fairly significant on most weapons as it makes many weapons jump from 24" to 30", and the extra AP is great for most non-kustom weapons.
Warlord Trait: Da Best Armor Teef Can Buy Essentially, this is a worse version of the generic "Da Krushin Armor", but without the MA requirement. Especially the wartrike can make good use of this, but it also pairs well with any killa klaw or squiggosaur boss.
Stratagem: Showin' Off (1 CP) At first glance this just seems to be the old DDD, but sixes generate extra HITS, just like the goff trait. It only works for core units and characters, so the only good targets are meks with ded shiney shoota and maybe lootas.
Relic: Gobshot Blunderbuss Turns a kustom shoota into a dual skorcha. Since it's a heavy weapon it gets 6" extra range and is actually 18", so it's not bad. It's main issue is that it can only taken by a very limited number of models and most of them want other relics.
Thoughts: The extra range mostly does not matter with the small maps and the extra AP only triggers on 6s. I love my BM, but personally i think it`s our worst trait by far and would rate it even yellow or red.
Evil Sunz Kultur: Red Ones Go Fasta The assault buff is gone and the dakka weapon type and many weapons moving from assault to heavy messed up the trait badly, especially since many models have a mix of types. The extra movement by itself doesn't really help any army.
Warlord trait: Fasta Than Yooz (+3) One CORE unit within 6" can fall back and charge or advance and charge. Great for Speed Mob Warbikes that don`t have access to the regular Waaagh.
Stratagem: Drive-by Dakka (+2)(1 CP) Enables an Evil Sunz SPEED FREEKS unit to move again at the end of the shooting phase. Allows units like buggies or koptas to get out of dangerous situations and hopefully behind obscuring terrain. Fantastic to keep your TTL Deffkoptas alive.
Relic: Rezmekka's redder paint Probably one of the best relics in the codex, not only does it make everyone in combat with the wearer fight last, but it can be taken by vehicles and adds movement.
Thoughts: ES have seen a lot of play in Speedmob, so i think it`s fair to rate the WL trait and strat far better, as it`s key to how and why ES Speed Mob works.
Snakebites Kultur: Da Old Ways Don't listen to your space marines friends, it's nowhere even close to transhuman. The great part of this culture is a very juicy +1 to wound for all squigs - so when you have squigosaurs, squig hogs and smasha squigs. For every other unit the culture is essentially worthless. Note that the rigs are not squigs.
Warlord trait: Surly as a Squiggoth When you die, you have 50% chance to bounce back up with d3 wounds remaining. For almost every character, just taking defensive relic like the super-cybork is better. Mozrog is locked into this.
Stratagem: Mystic Chanting(1 CP) Deny the witch for 1CP. If you opponent has psykers you can spend a CP to deny a power you really don't want to be happening. Great backup to deny psychic actions as well.
Relic: Bogrog's Buzzbomb Single use grenade that hits on a 2+ and does 3d6 S5 AP-1 hits, with +1 to wound if you put it on a squig. Blast makes it rather powerful against hordes, not that awesome against elite armies.
Deathskullz Kultur: Lucky Gitz 5+++ against MW, all infantry gains objective secured, and you may reroll 1 dice per unit per phase to hit OR wound. Provides excellent benefits for pretty much every ork unit. A lot less powerful than before, but still a great jack-of-all-traits kultur.
Warlord trait: Opportunist Allows your warlord to snipe characters and might gain you a CP if you destroy a vehicle, which combos nicely with Wreckaz. While it did not improve greatly from the last codex, especially a MA big mek with the ded shiney shoota and the wartrike are now much better candidates for this trait.
Stratagem: Wreckaz (2 CP) Adds +1 to wound when attacking vehicles. Since it is limited to CORE and CHARACTERs, there are preciously few units that can benefit from it, so it is probably best used when you want to finish something off in combat.
Relic: The Fixer Upperz Now mek and big mek only, so no more shenanigans. It does mortal wounds to nearby vehicles when repairs one of your own vehicles, which just too many stars that need to align.
Blood Axes Kultur: Taktiks (+1) While orks rarely find themselves outside of 18", the gives vehicles a 3+ save and walkers a 2+ save during the first turn. Falling back and charging or shooting is only useful on a few units like koptas, squigbuggies or bonebreakers as most ork units either don't survive two rounds of combat, the enemy wants to get out of combat ASAP or the orks annihilate whatever they have charge anyways, leaving nothing to fall back from.
Warlord Trait: I've got a Plan, Ladz Allows you to pick up to 3 units and either re-deploy them or put them in reserves for free. There is no limit on this, so feel free to outflank two stompas and a gargantuan squiggoth for free. Good to hide expensive Wazboms as they don`t get to hide behind obscuring terrain.
Stratagem: Dead Sneaky(1 CP) If an infantry unit is within 3" of a table edge it can be put into strategic reserves. This can be use to save units from destruction, get outmaneuvered units back in the fight or to secure table quaters/perform actions for secondaries.
Relic: Morgarg's finkin cap Gain a CP if your warlord is alive. You can't ever have enough CP and this a fairly reliable way to gain one or two.
Thoughts: BA Kulture has seen a bit more use recently as it offers a bit more flexibility & utility and helps your Squigbuggies and Koptas keep shooting their Blast weapons if they get tagged. The BA supplement helped as well with adding even more strats, allthough with the exception of Tactical Awareness they mostly help armies outside of Speed Mob. Also added the part about Wazboms as they seem to be part of a lot of kunning BA warlords out there.
Freebootas Kultur: Competitive Streak Each time a freeboota unit destroys an enemy unit, all other freebootas add 1 to hit for the phase. The only trait that allows Gretchin units to (indirectly) benefit by causing other non-gretchin freeboota units to gain the +1 to hit. Be aware that some units like buggies have inherrent +1 to hit and thus don't benefit from the culture. (They get to ignore dense cover though)
Warlord Trait: Killa Reputation -1 to leadership and attrition tests for enemies +1 1d for your own models. Especially 9th edition codices will be hurt by this, but with many codices still ignoring morale and many great warlord traits available, it's probably more of a trait to pick up for one of your support characters during cursade.
Stratagem: Get Da Loot (1 CP) If you ever find yourself in a situation where you outnumber your opponnet, just switch on your objective secured and go for a 8 VP swing. Insanely powerful if you can make it happen. INFANTRY only.
Relic: Badskull Banna Enemies within 6" lose objective secured. Powerful relic that can even go on vehicles. Combined with a Speed Mob Warboss on Bike that gains ObSec this opens a good possibillity to steal objectives.
Now for the Big junk, unit analysis. Here quite a few units have changed, as before i put (+/- x) behind it if anything changed and put the relevant units in the new tier list.
S-Tier:
Spoiler:
Beastboss on Squigosaur The biggest, meanest ork in town riding a T-Rex. The ability to take relics and traits that make him extremely tanky and the jaws of the squig make him good against pretty much anything. Got a big +30 points price increase with the last chapter approved though and the large base combined with the CAVALRY keyword can make it tricky to get the best out of him on terrain heavy boards.
Mozrog Skragbad (+1) With the +30 points bump on the regular Beastboss on Squigosaurus Mozrog is now just 5/10 points more expensive. His dmg 3 melee profile became better now that a lot of units have -1 dmg. He will save you CP over a regular Squigboss and sports a 4++. Locked into Snakebites you won`t get a clan trait for him normally now that monofaction is a thing. (But there seems to be a loophole to put him in a snakebites detachment with a specialists troop unit so he gets to use his trait and circumvent the new rules for monofactions.)
Deffkilla Wartrike (+1) A solid profile and the ability to call a Speed Waaagh!, which is very valuable in vehicle-centric and especially Speed Mob lists. It can also benefit from a number of clan specific relics and warlord traits. With the vehicle keyword it can still help with the "Engage on all fronts" secondary and to pop cloud of smokes.
Deffkopta (+1) Many wounds, FLY, at least six attacks and dual rokkits each make them quite powerful for any flanking job. There isn't much reason to pay points to side-grade two rokkits into a KMB and bomb. Got a few fantastic strategems with Speed Mob and tournament lists have been running up to 15 of these. They make good TTL targets now and can dish out a solid amount of mortal wounds. Only minor downside is they give up quite a few Bring it Down points and they can`t fire their rokkits in close combat.
Big Mek in Mega Armour With BS4+ and the ded shiney shoota, you have a rather decent shooty HQ at your hands which can either carry a KFF to burn or the vastly improved tellyporta blasta to get up close and personal. Our best HQ that can't call a Waaagh!. Grot oiler is a waste of points.
Kommandos For just 3 extra points over boyz, you get the ability to infiltrate, +2 to armor when in cover for a 3+ save and +1 to wound when touching terrain. If you have 10 or more of these, you also can also specialize them for melee or range. Make sure to focus your unit.
Stormboyz (+1) Essentially fill the same role as kommandoz, but are slightly more mobile and flexible. They still die to a stiff breeze, but are cheaper than Kommandos now. Squads of 6 privide a good "Retrieve Nachmund Data" tool and they help with scoring. They work good in Alphork style lists that want to overwhelm the opponent fast and got a few neat but situational strats with the BA supplement.
Megatrakk Skrapjet Tons of rokkit shots make it great for vehicle hunting that also brings a decent close combat weapon and four big shootas.
Ruckatrukk Squigbuggy After a complete rework for the launchers, a new mine and better saws the squig buggy is actually one of the best models in the codex. Even in larger units, they can just hide out of sight and lob angry squigs across the board. Got hit with the nerf bat twice but is still good.
Warbikes Smoke cloud is back! In addition, they went up by one wound, have better guns and advance faster. A great unit for grabbing objectives which are difficult to remove. They got a lot of addional buffs in the Speed Mob army of renown as well, among those gaining ObSec and a build in invulnerable save.
Wazbom Blastajet (+1) 5++ KFF (only for AIRCRAFT now though) with BS4+ and the guns now deal tons of damage. No vehicle is safe from this looted doomsday cannon. You might want to put the 2 you are allowed to take in reserve though, as the opponents know what they do do by now and will try to take them out fast. Depending on the list they might become your TTL targets, so keep that in mind when list building as this is a secondary your Speed Mob will have to take every now and then.
Thoughts: I think Wazbom, Wartrike and Koptas all earned their place in top tier, as they got quite good and make an appearence in about 99% of all Speed Mob lists which is 1 of our top 2 builds right now. Other lists have been using them as well. Stormboys seem to have been taken rather for the mission play than their output and seem to do good combined with Kommandos. Mozrog and Squigboss seem to be on par now. I think you could put them both in A tier instead of S tier, as they are rather expensive but they are still the choppiest HQ`s we got. Thoughts on that?
MA Mek seems to have lost a bit of love by the Ork players as Speed Mob can`t take him and Alphork don`t wants to, but other builds seem to still rely on his once per game 5++ and his shoota lurks still around sometimes to snipe off a small character. I`d keep him here as he is still solid but i think A-tier is a relatable choice as well.
A-Tier:
Spoiler:
Warboss in Mega Armour With access to great relics and warlord traits, you can turn this warboss into a brawler that can take on anything but the most powerful combat experts. The 'uge choppa is no killa klaw, but still a decent weapon to crush elite infantry. Having a gun with a realistic chance of hitting stuff also isn't terrible.
Warboss (+1) Only Warboss on foot that can take the Killa Klaw which helps a lot in a dmg -1 meta. You can make him pretty good in melee if you combine it with the BBC warlord trait. The squig attacks can proc additional attacks with the Klaw so pay that extra 5 points for maximum choppiness.
Boomdakka Snazzwagon It's main gun has been upgraded to do 2 damage per shot, which changes everything. Good against any kind of infantry, cheap and rather durable, it is only outdone by even better buggies.
Kustom Boosta-Blasta The KBB combines a reliable anti-chaff tool with a solid elite/light armor hunting weapon and a mortal wound ram ability for a discount price.
Shokkjump Dragsta Good, reliable anti-tank firepower. The loss of their stratagems makes them less flexible and bigger units make deep striking not as easy as it was before.
Mega Armoured Nobz (+1)MANz are great for taking and holding objectives, and with the "Hit 'em harder" stratagem not even a knight is safe from them. Killsaws are fairly expensive now, so PK and skorchas are probably the better alternative. Can be trukkboyz.
Squighog Boyz Essentially these are warbikers with less shooting but better melee. With the help of stratagems and the goff or snakebite culture, these can punch way above their weight class and deal massive damage to vehicles and monsters. Sadly, they die easily.
Battlewagon Multi-functional transport that can transport up to 20 shooty models, a unit of MANz and/or some boyz into battle. For unknown reason it's a lot cheaper than the specialist versions Battlewagons should always be run along with other vehicles. If you are transporting valuable targets, make sure to buy the fortress kustom job.
Deff Dreads Tellyport them in to attack a vulnerable part of your enemy's army, two often fit better than three. For shooting the KMB is the vastly better option over the rokkit, skorchas are an option if you need anti-horde options. Has access to dmg 3 melee which is a good thing to have right now.
Killa Kanz (+1) S8 & dmg3 makes them actually good in melee right now and they are quite choppy in large mobs backed up by a banner nob. Shootas and skorchas are probably best to keep them cheap and to get some extra mileage out of them. Have been seen in tournament lists since they got a sweet price discount.
Kill Rig Psychic main battle tank that has similar melee of deff rolla wagon, the shooting of a gunwagon and comes with a free wurrboy stuck to it for a similiar price as a fully decked out battlewagon. It can also transport models, but no one cares. Has seen some play in Alphork lists but got a small price bump. Keep in mind it gives up quite a few secondaries and might have problems manouvering around terrain.
Mek guns Mek guns have taken a hit with lower unit sizes and no longer being able to split up makes them vulnerable to their terrible ld. They still provide good shooting with KMK once again being the best choice, with the other three closely behind. If you are feeling lucky, even the bubblechukka has become a decent choice now. Single Mek Guns have been used as cheap campers.
Dakkajet Good against anything that's not well armored, always buy the extra shootas. Can be useful for assassinating characters, as it can jump next to them and unload its guns on them. It's the best unit for the moar dakka kustom job, but it still only serves as a point sink, spending points on other units will likely be better.
Trukk Trukk boyz are actually a fairly decent choice for troops, and both lootas and burnas might be potential passengers. The improved big shoota is welcomed, but nothing to write home about.
Warboss on Warbike (FW) Fast model that can carry the killa klaw. Gains ObSec in Speed Mob.
Kannonwagon (FW) Great gun and improved BS combined with insane range. Ork don't have many good weapons with 3 damage, and this fills the niche nicely. Sadly it lacks the WAGON keyword so you can`t use it in Speed Mob right now.
Kill Tank (FW) Low cost, decent shooting, high durabilty. Super heavy auxiliary detachments are cheaper now, so you might squeeze him in a little bit easier. GW decided to take away his ramshackle though, so keep that in mind.
Thoughts: MA nobs, Warboss / MA Warboss have all seen a good amount of use and seem to be pretty popular here on Dakka and in the few tournament top placings we have right now as well. One might argue they could be S-tier as well, but i think they are just a little bit too expensive for that. They simply are the best option for what you want in those lists, but are solid at most. I upgraded the regular Warboss to that tier as he has been seen riding in Trukks a lot, is cheap and can carry the killa klaw which makes him on par with the MA boss who trades a bit of output for more tankyness. If MA nobs had at least an inbuild 5++ they would probably be s-tier, or if they would get another 5-10 points decrease which would definetely make them an auto take. The A-tier buggies are fairly decent and have all been seen in tournament lists or dakka users Speed Mob lists, but Scrapjets and Squigbuggies seem still to be the more favourite ones. I think they are fine here.
Killkans are cheap enough to be A-tier now and heve been seen on tournaments as well, who`d thought? Not sure if they earned their upgrade a 100% but since a lot of you guys seem to be fond of them as well i thought i`d give it a shot.
Personally i would downgrade the Wagon & Deffdread one tier which got rated just under 3/5 in Jid`s survey as well, but they have been seen occosionally and the Wagon got a small price decrease, so they could stay here. But if the majority still thinks B-tier fits them better i would agree to downgrade them.
Actually all of the vehicles in this tier feel like they are kinda in the limbo between A-tier & B-tier, so tell me what you guys think.
B-Tier:
Spoiler:
Mad Dok Grotsnik (-1) Finally free of his deff skulls clan lock, he is as durable as a warboss that provides models around him with a 6+++. A great addition for any infantry-focused list. Suffers from the fact that infantry heavy lists with large mobs are rather bad right now.
Ghazkgull Thrakka He can wreck pretty much anything in combat and can call both kinds of Waaagh! at once for a questionable benefit as most armies will focus on shooting or close combat. He is still hard to kill, but can no longer be healed in any way and by now there are a few things that get to ignore his 4 wounds a phase rule.
Kaptin Badrukk Great shooty HQ that can fit in with any list, even better if he has some flash gits to buff. He is fairly durable and can call a Waaagh! if you don't want another warboss in a freeboota army.
Snikrot Used similar to kommandoz or MANz, he beats enemy units off objectives and then stays there, near impossible to remove without dedicated shooting. He still suffers from being locked into blood axes, but at least he can be fielded in addition to another warboss or speedboss.
Zagstruk (+1) For his point costs and just 2 damage per attack he still doesn't compare well to other bosses, but he is fast and does not count towards your warboss limit per detachment. Can charge up to 33" out of a transport so might be a neat trick to hunt small characters or small non-elite squads.
Makari 2++ save, a 6+ FNP aura and the ability to tag along with Thrakka make him decent addition to goff armies. With all other support characters getting a kick in the nutz, he is actually a decent choice if you are bringing Thrakka.
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun The SAG is a powerful long-range weapon. You need multiples to get any mileage out of them, and they are a bit overpriced. One might use the PTSD other players suffer from facing them in 8th edition so you could use it for some kunning mindgames.
Weirdboy No longer gets a cast bonus and has to be near 20 orks to cast a second power. This makes casting da jump a lot less reliable now and he can no longer jump himself, but most other powers got better. He doesn't fit well with fast lists, and slow footsloggers are rather bad now.
Wurrboy It's discipline is mostly about dealing damage at close range and buffing beast snaggas. It needs 20 orks nearby to cast a second power and has a low range shooting attack. It would be a decent support an army focusing on many footslogging orks.
Nob on Smasha Squig Decent and cheap melee character that deals a lot of mortal wounds and doesn't take up a slot. It does give your opponent assassinate points, so be aware.
Banner Nob Not locked into CORE and does not count as a warboss for the one per detachment limit. A valuable asset for any walker list, as none of them are CORE and while not fantastic they seem to bee at least decent now.
Boyz Slow, die easily, mediocre damage, vulnerable to morale and 9 points because it's 9th edition. At least choppas get AP-1 which makes them better than shoota boyz. You can turn them into trukk boyz though, which allows to disembark and charge after the trukk moved. Outside of that, they aren't too hot unless fielded as goff.
Flash Gitz Awesome guns that lay waste to light infantry, elite infantry, light vehicles and anything else that's not T7 or higher, decent armor saves, good combat ability and a good stratagem. Sadly, they are a bit too expensive.
Burnas (-2) Finally having gotten actual flamers, they can benefit from the pyromaniacs specialist mob to get insane number of average shots that make shoota boyz look like gretchin. If they ever manage to get in combat, you can now pay CP to get their cutter AP-2 back.
Lootas Lootas can now move and shoot, get a guaranteed two shots plus another one at half range but have to take mandatory spannas per 5. This allows them to rider transports without losing firepower, which they definitely should because they still die like flies despite T5.
Gorkanaut All its guns were improved and despite the loss of one attack, it's more deadly in combat. It cannot have a culture in SHA, but you can give it the Big Krumaz specialist mob instead. The tellyporta and ramming speed combo still works.
Burna Bommer In addition to fairly decent shooting, its bombs have been changed to drop old school blasts, which is fairly unique. Right now there is no real need for such a thing, but most horde armies haven't had their new codices yet. Skorcha missiles are a way to sink your last few points, but not awesome. The pyromaniacs special mob is wasted on the bommer.
Blitza-Bommer (-1) If you miss flying 'eadbut, this bommer brings two of them. The bombs are great against any elite MSU army. Suffers mostly from the Dakkajet & Wazbom being the better choices and fliers being restricted to 0-2 now.
Big'ed Bossbunka Paired with the tellyporta stratagem, this essentially becomes an ork drop pod for stuff like flash gits, tank bustas or lootas. Sadly the terrible 3" rule for setting up fortifications this from actually being good, but YMMV depending on how your tables look.
Thoughts: Not many changes here, most notibly an upgrade for Zagstruk who seems to have seen some play and looks not too shabby in Alhork lists right now.
Downgrades for Burnas, Grotznik and Blitza Bommer as they seemed to get not much love in the survey nor get any appearenced in any recent tournament lists.
Burnas needing a transport seemed to be the main problem here, so maybe that changes with Wagons getting a discount, but they don`t really offer something orks need right now.
C-Tier:
Spoiler:
Beastboss A beast-snagga specific warboss variant that faces the problem of not getting access to the killa klaw, not having a squigosaur and beast snaggas not being that awesome in the first place.
Painboss A faster pain boy with slightly better melee weapons, but can only heal beast snaggas and warbikes (wat?). Yet, he isn't fast enough to keep up with squigs or bikes and too expensive to be considered a budget HQ option.
Painboy Too expensive for the 6+++ he provides, but his mandatory PK sometimes kills something.
Big Mek with Kustom Force Field (+1) The KFF has become terrible unless you burn through it with a stratagem. After you have done that you are left with a choppa nob for 60 points. Maybe an option to get you non-Speed Mob parking lot a cheaper 5++ for one turn, but otherwise nope.
Tankbustas Powerful but fragile unit that tends to be dead as soon as your opponent can shoot them. A unit that has 24" range but wants to stand still doesn't work too well, though they are still decent at taking out vehicles, but not at much else. Both tank hammers and rokkit pistols should be avoided.
Beast Snagga Boyz The upgrade they get over regular boyz is totally worth 2 points, but boyz weren't worth it to begin with. Without being able to become trukk boyz, beast snaggas are just a unit that is too expensive to be used as tax.
Gretchin Terrible overcosted unit without objective secured, horrible morale, extra losses from attrition and no offensive output. The only value is that they can perform actions on a home objective, and when used as such should definitely be upgraded to 'orrible gits.
Bonebreaker The bonebreaker is powerful in melee and can transport units. The high price is not worth the extra d6 attacks compared to a regular battlewagon. The red rolla is a waste of points.
Gunwagon The "da boomer" is absolutely mandatory for the gunwagon, don't bother bringing one without. It's expensive though and doesn't do anything unique, there are plenty of options with do 2 damage shots better than the gunwagon. Inferior to the kannonwagon.
Hunta Rig Just like the kill rig, it has the melee of a bonebreaka but none of the other cool stuff. Being able to transport beast snaggas is rather worthless, which make the whole thing kind of bad.
Morkanaut With sparkly bits gone, the nauts sent to LoW exile causing both a loss of culture and requiring an extra detachment, there isn't much of a reason left to take the morkanaut. It did get a lot better in combat, but the gorkanaut is vastly better in that field.
Stompa Its points dropped once again and it finally reached regions where it doesn't just ruin your game for bringing it. Still not great.
Mekboy Workshop While no longer being pure self-sabotage, it has very narrow uses, assuming you can deploy it at all. It comes with a metric ton of barricades which are rather interesting for defending infantry while the shop can put kustom jobs on shooty units. Doubling up kustom jobs would be interesting if all of them weren't so bad.
Mek Boss Buzzgob (FW) He can super-charge a goff walker for a turn, so he is a nice addition if you were running a goff dread mob anyways. While interesting and unique, he is a bit too expensive for what he does.
Gargantuan Squiggoth (FW) Barely worth the costs, assuming you can get it around terrain at all.
Kustom Stompa (FW) The lifta droppas on this are some really mean weapons, but you might want to bring the cheaper regular stompa.
Thoughts: Not much to change, allthough i personally would upgrade the KFF to this tier. Yeah the KFF is bad, but at least he provides a cheap KFF if you really want to safe points over a MA Mek
D-Tier:
Spoiler:
Zodgrod Wortsnagga Yet another grot HQ that provides a completely worthless offensive buff to a unit that has the offensive capabilies of, well, gretchin. No thanks. The only redeeming feature is that he can put Gulliman to sleep with the squig stoppa.
Mini Mek Bad gun, bad melee, bad at repairing stuff and dies easily. Avoid. This text is unchanged since 7th, GW really doesn't want to sell this model.
Runtherd You have to run a lot of gretchins to make runtherds a useful investment, since they cost almost as much as a whole replacement squad of gretchins for the squad you lost because he wasn't there to stop them running away.
Nobz on Warbikes (FW) Unless they get updated with the new warbiker's rules there really is no reason to play them over squighogs or warbikers.
Yeah, nothing special here. One might rate the Runtherd better as he would make sense if you run 3+ mobs of gretchin if you want to flood the board, but outside of fun games with 100 Gretchin i wouldn`t bother. Nobz on Warbikes could get 1 tier better as well because you COULD run a almost Biker-only list with them, but honestly, outside of a fun game why would you bother.
As i bonus i thought it would be a good idea to add a few of the current tournament lists to the starting post.
I guess as it`s what Orks run nowaday it would make sense to have 1-2 Speed Mob lists, 1-2 Alphork lists and maybe a Freebooters build?
Freebooters have been quite popolar a few months back but seem to be far less so right now.
Thats what i had in mind:
Tournament lists:
Speed Mob (Army of Renown):
The Speed Mob provided Orks with a rather powerfull tool to field vehicle heavy lists that play fast and can dish out a lot of damage while staying mobile and get some pretection on top of that.
This army is kind of an sidestep, as you pay for these advantages with a very limited choice of models - Speedfreaks (Wartrike, Warboss on Bike, Deffkoptas, Warbikers and all 5 Buggies) as well as Wagons and Aircraft but loose access to any infantry.
As benefit you get access to a new warlord trait, 2 kustom jobs and 6 strategems of which 4-5 are really powerfull.
On top of that you get a few more Buffs for the Speedfreaks models (advance & shoot, 6++ that gets a 5++ after advancing, ObSec for bike models & +1 attack after charging). You get to keep you Clan keyword for strategems / relics / warlord traits purposes, but only Aircraft and Wagon models will profit from the Clan Culture.
So overall, Speed Mob lists have been quite similar due to the low model count. 3 clans have been proven to be the most popular for Speedmob:
Evil Sunz, as they add the ability to keep multiple mobs of Deffkoptas safe with "Attack out o`da sun" and "Drive by dakka" plus they have a good WL trait and relic.
Blood Axes, as they give you access to a lot of extra CP, mainly "I`ve got a plan lads" to get your Wazboms in reserve for free and "Tactical awareness" for actions with biker units while shooting.
Freebooters, as your models can still trigger the clan culture for the 2 Wazboms to make all their Dakka hit on 3+. Also the Warboss can steal ObSec with the Badskull banner while he himself gains it from being a Bike as well.
All three have their own advantages and there seems to be no real favourite, although ES & BA seem to be a bit more successfull and popular right now.
A big challange for Speed Mob armies is their limited ability to do actions, score primaries + secondaries and to screen out.
They also tend to be CP intensive with most of the relevant strategems being 2 CP and especially the Deffkoptas eating up a lot of CP recources.
The following two lists are in no way the best or only way to run a Speed Mob army but should rather show what a possible list could look like.
Example list Blood Axes:
Spoiler:
Blood Axe Outrider:
Deffkilla Wartrike (Warlord, Finkin`Cap, I`ve got a plan, lads)
3 Scrapjets
3 Squigbuggies
3 Shockjump Dragstas
2 Kustom Boosta Blastas
1 Boomdakka Snazzwagon
9 Warbikers
2 x Wazbom Blastajet (Force Field, 2 x Supa Shoota)
This one is a little harder to pin down, as there are multiple ways to build this army and all of them slightly vary in what units they take and what they want to to with it.
Right now most of them seem to prefer the extra damage you get out of the Goff trait over other Clans though.
The generall idea is to get as much stuff as possible into the opponent and either a) kill as much stuff as possible with quality units or b) throw as many small and cheap units as possible at them to slow them down and keep them in their deployment zone to prevent the opponent from scoring.
Popular units for this are Kommandos, Trukkboys (Boys & MA nobs, Warbikers, Deffkoptas, Stormboys, Squighog Boys, Kill rigs and various HQ`s to support it.
Example list: Yeah, not sure which one to take here. There are a few lists online that vary quite a lot.
I think it would be good to put 1 list with Kill Rigs and choppy stuff here as well as one Alphork a la Semper?
What do you guys think would be the best 2 to put in there?
What about Freebooters, still worth a note in the first page post?
Also, should the text about those lists be a bit longer to explain more abaut their tactics, possible secondaries and the like or should they be kept plain and simple?
2022/03/14 17:54:04
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I'll admit that it took a while to get used of the speed king aura but after a tournament messing it up I've figured it out and I find it very much worth it provided you can make use of if in the shooting and fight phase.
Do you not use it loads with the rukkatrukk unit?
If I was going to get rid of it I'd probably slim down to one outrider and to save effectively 4 CP (2 for extra relic and trait, 2/3 as I go down to 1 detachment) the 115 points could be well spent on 2 more deffkoptas.
Saying that my two deffkoptas units (one of 6 one of 5 plus two wazbomms one of which runs the forcefield) add up to 990 points so unless I run blood axes that's all I can put in reserve.
I didn't fully appreciate that evil sunz can use drive by dakka always. Has anyone used it after falling back, after coming in from reserves or to fly a plane off the board after shooting?
2022/03/14 19:51:33
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Driven by dakka - After reserves yes, every game couple of times. What drops by Attak out of da sun mostly use it in my games. And sometimes even on Scrapjets to move them to the right spot to score on objective. The same on Bikers. Jets are not SpeedFreaks however.
Speedking - I did use it on RSBs. Honestly, almost only on them + some Koptas. Wazbooms are away another turn and what I like on Speed Mob is the fact, you can go anywhere and you can go fast and do the job. That helps me to score a lot.
However, this limits the use of Speedking. You need to keep HQ at home.
And the math is really not impresive. Let' s say
10 koptas = 20 shots on 5+ = 6,6 wounds
3 RSB in short range = 21 on 4+ = 10,5 w.r.
And 10,5 shots on 5+ =3,5 w.r = total 14 w.r.
2 wazbooms = 9 shots on 4+ = 4,5 wound rolls
—————————————————————
Total about 25 w.r. = 4 rolls of 1. Reroll and no more than 2 of the, do another wound. One of them will be saved = 1 x 3dmg in average. Before any damage reduction or FNP. And the reality is mostly even worse because of -1 to hit everywhere around.
In T1 you propably do not havy any units in CC 6” and later wazbooms are away. And anyway, the results are not significantly better. Total effect in the whole game is what? Definitely no more than 15dmg per game. And these are distributed in 5 turns randomly across the board.
And to get this you have to keep 120p model weak and at home.
On other side, you can have a fast and tough murdering machine doing 15 dmg in 2 turns zooming around and doing the damage on the place you need them in the time you need them and - in case of warboss on warbike - be an obsec biker holding objective or dropping explosives.
What I like on no-Speedking list is, that it' s super clean game. Not a single aura in the whole army. Not a single reroll. Everything is independend. You can attack or screen as you need. Absolute orky freedome.
Check the speedmob lists posted there since Christmas. You will see this setting is one of the valid ones. Speedking is more common but not the only one.
The true is, that the SpeedMob is not a one playstyle. ES version is focused on keeping Koptas safe and move a lot. BA is focused on perfect keeping the army safe if going second and burning CPs. And do not forget there is also a FB version boosting the wazbooms on max + doing a very nasty business with anti obsec banner. All of them are valid and different.
Single detach ES speedmob - I played this list in January / Feb and it was cool but very unflexible. You will need to max almost all the FA units and in Nachmund GT you will feel short on units. Lost the flexibility to score. That was the reason I switched to double detach. speed mob is CP hungry but you need them a lot in first 2 turns. After that, the table is either cleared enough to be safe to stop jumping like the kangaroo or you are in hell anyway
My old single detach had 2 squads of bikers and Speedking Wartrike = 2 units able to score and do some stuff like that around pr be sacrificed to slow down some bloody terminators by comming 1,1” in front of them and do the bloody long “no tresspass” line or whatever.
Now I have 3 squads of bikers + 2 warbosses on warbikes = 5 units able to do all this stuff. That is super usefull for me.
Do not forget that Bikerboss can do the Telyport Homers, tag the sticky objectives as obsec and do the primary mission actions. For example - In the Mission 12 - explosives - they are pure gold - move 20”, drop the bomb and 4 VP at home.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Grotrebel - well done!
Warboss on warbike - definitely the same tier as wartrike. Watrike should be in cyan. As the warboss. Both are good in being HQ but non of them is extremely exciting. Beastboss is a tier higher for sure.
Typical lists - the concept of their Secondaries is crucial. The good list is built around the plan how to score. So list without a secondaries is just the half of the story.
For speed mob the trick with TTL is crucial. That is the whole point. You have hard to kill jumping stuff for 15 WP, flexible army to score Engage and than struggle to manage the third one somehow.
There are basicly 2 types of Speedmob lists based on the number of warbikers.
3-4 model count units:
Bitz
Homers
5-6+ model count units:
Data - very strong in scoring but cost you some of your firepower.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another important aspect of SpeedMob secondary plan is - it' s a trap!
It' s a trap on Bring it down. You tell the opponent, you have 20 VP on BID. It' s true, but you have about 10-12 of them in jumping deffkoptas impossible to kill and another 3 in backfield 3xRSB squad or something playing on TTL.
So it' s 20 VP just in case you' re wiped out.
In fact it' s about 5-6 for 2 jets and some small buggy squad… if any….
Automatically Appended Next Post: Huh, I have a great idea! I give the BikerBoss the Redder Paint and Ard as Nails and use him like a durable VP missile to enemy deploy to score Homers for 4 VPs…
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2022/03/14 21:25:20
Tomsung you make a good argument against speedking.
I missed drive by dakka was speed freek locked... So is speedking by the way so if you disliked it before you're definitely going to dislike it now that it doesn't work on the planes.
2022/03/15 06:50:39
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
CaptainO wrote: Tomsung you make a good argument against speedking.
I missed drive by dakka was speed freek locked... So is speedking by the way so if you disliked it before you're definitely going to dislike it now that it doesn't work on the planes.
On the other side, don' t take me so absolutely. I' m good in making good points also in cases I' m wrong
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote: Tomsung you make a good argument against speedking.
I missed drive by dakka was speed freek locked... So is speedking by the way so if you disliked it before you're definitely going to dislike it now that it doesn't work on the planes.
Ohhh!§§ I see what you say! Not only Driven by dakka. But also a Speedking is only SPEEDFREAKS - so doesn' t work on the Wazbooms and it exclude the CHARACTERS. So id doesn' t work on the warbosses! Hell! It ' s even worse! Ok, that solved my dilema with the Speedking definitely. I go to give a try the Redder Telyport Hommers Bomb and see…
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/15 07:14:23
I bring to attention because of the hive guard rules, they now require a spotter to shoot. I fully expect we receive the same treatment.
Why would we receive the same treatment? We dont have units that shoot without line of sight that are spammable. You can buy 18 hive guards. We can buy 3 squigbuggies...
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/03/15 10:50:08
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I bring to attention because of the hive guard rules, they now require a spotter to shoot. I fully expect we receive the same treatment.
Why would we receive the same treatment? We dont have units that shoot without line of sight that are spammable. You can buy 18 hive guards. We can buy 3 squigbuggies...
It's not that they are spam able, but they shoot without line of sight, it's the same type of weapon profile. And looking at GW track record they will probably import to every weapon profile of similar type, that's my reasoning. Still we are talking of conjecture and I am not advocating that it should apply to us, I am waiting for the data slate that should drop today I think. Hopefully if they do follow that route they would lift the ban on more then single squad of buggies.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/03/15 11:08:10
2022/03/15 11:54:49
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I bring to attention because of the hive guard rules, they now require a spotter to shoot. I fully expect we receive the same treatment.
Why would we receive the same treatment? We dont have units that shoot without line of sight that are spammable. You can buy 18 hive guards. We can buy 3 squigbuggies...
It's not that they are spam able, but they shoot without line of sight, it's the same type of weapon profile. And looking at GW track record they will probably import to every weapon profile of similar type, that's my reasoning. Still we are talking of conjecture and I am not advocating that it should apply to us, I am waiting for the data slate that should drop today I think. Hopefully if they do follow that route they would lift the ban on more then single squad of buggies.
The squig buggies were oppressive when you could have 9, now you can have 3, for an increased cost even, so they arent oppressive at all anymore.
The hive guards can remain oppressive by being in such large groups.
If they nerf ork squigbuggies with the same manner they would also nerf Plagueburst crawlers in the same idea. Or even kill/hunta rigs Mortars.
I dont think this spotter rule will become a thing, i think its just a thing for units that shoots without line of sight that can be spammed to this degree.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/03/15 11:58:02
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Anybody have luck running Mega-Dreads or Meka-Dreads
Grabbed a couple and am working on building/ painting. the Mega-Dreads have a mega charge ability built in for roll an extra D6 for charge and discard to lowest. Movement is 8 but degrades to 6 at 8 wounds and 4 at 4 wounds which is not great
gun seems nice heavy D6 str8 ap-2 damage 2 blast
melee hitting at str 16 ap-3 damage D3+3
Meka-Dread has same main weapons but instead of 2 str5 flamers they can repair vehicles and are 165 points vs 175 for the MegaDreads
). I'm curious about other players' responses though, since I haven't had the chance to face the new tau so far.
10k p fullpaint orks finally ready to krump!!! 
7000 
