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2022/03/31 10:42:58
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Watch out the low LD on kans. You can take them in unit of 3 to mitigate the risk though you'll lose the +1arrack bonus easily, or give the Trait +1Ld Aura on the banner nob behind them
Or you can take a single 5-6 kan squad in tellyporta and ramming speed it. I like running one or two squads of three models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: Yeah! Good idea! Something like this could be really nice!
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Da Badskull Banner (Freebooterz), Killa Reputation (Freebooterz), Power Klaw, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz, Warlord
+ Elites +
Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 70pts, -1CP]: 1. Follow Me, Ladz!, Stratagem: Big Boss, Super Cybork Body
+ Fast Attack +
Warbikers [8 PL, 105pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 3x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 3x Choppa, 6x Dakkagun
Warbikers [8 PL, 105pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 3x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 3x Choppa, 6x Dakkagun
Certainly a cool concept, but I'd love walkers to be great also in small numbers in lists with a wide variety of units, not just exclusively good if taken in some sort of AoR style lists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/31 10:45:32
2022/03/31 16:55:58
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
For the Banner Nob, I mean "Inspiring Leader " Trait. ( I suppose the "Follow me ladz" is a typo ?)
Yeah, for Tellyporta unit, no need for Ld bonus as they will hit the lines before getting shot at.
But a mob of 5-6 kans is too much, you'll never find a spot to place them. Placing 2 deffdreads in opponent DZ is already difficult, and Kanz' bases are same size as Deffdread's :(
2022/03/31 18:41:11
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Watch out the low LD on kans. You can take them in unit of 3 to mitigate the risk though you'll lose the +1arrack bonus easily, or give the Trait +1Ld Aura on the banner nob behind them
Or you can take a single 5-6 kan squad in tellyporta and ramming speed it. I like running one or two squads of three models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: Yeah! Good idea! Something like this could be really nice!
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Da Badskull Banner (Freebooterz), Killa Reputation (Freebooterz), Power Klaw, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz, Warlord
+ Elites +
Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 70pts, -1CP]: 1. Follow Me, Ladz!, Stratagem: Big Boss, Super Cybork Body
+ Fast Attack +
Warbikers [8 PL, 105pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 3x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 3x Choppa, 6x Dakkagun
Warbikers [8 PL, 105pts] . Boss Nob: Big Choppa
. 3x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 3x Choppa, 6x Dakkagun
Certainly a cool concept, but I'd love walkers to be great also in small numbers in lists with a wide variety of units, not just exclusively good if taken in some sort of AoR style lists.
sure. But Kanz dont have E're we go. so you cant reroll your charge for free.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/03/31 19:27:31
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Yeh, Inspiring leader is better than Follow me Ladz. That was wrong.
Killa kanz do not have Ere we go… damn. That is not good. So they are useless as Telyporting surprise. And pretty much anything in the first wave. In such case less Kans and more of something else would be better.
I tried to give there some mobile punchy touch giving the Morknonaut extra movement with the Pistons and via Mega Dreads. But this army desperately needs Advance and Charge.
Kans would be great if they get a CORE keyword. They will be able to benefit from Waaaaaagh and they could be a Orrible gitz and get the Obsec.
I've always thought it was such a waste that they never implemented a DreadWAAAGH! option that buffs our walker units if you made a Big Mek your Warlord instead of a Warboss. They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember. As it is, our dred mob units are in an awkward spot where they don't get the most relevant benefits of either speedwaaagh or a regular waaagh.
2022/03/31 20:15:47
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Grimskul wrote: I've always thought it was such a waste that they never implemented a DreadWAAAGH! option that buffs our walker units if you made a Big Mek your Warlord instead of a Warboss. They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember. As it is, our dred mob units are in an awkward spot where they don't get the most relevant benefits of either speedwaaagh or a regular waaagh.
As much as I'd have liked to see it in the codex, I'm hopeful that we'll still see a TekWAAAGH! or DreadWAAAGH! supplement at some point. As you say, they seem to have been designed with one in mind. I can see it being our "Crusher Stampede" for 10th while we wait on a new book.
2022/03/31 20:30:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: Yeh, Inspiring leader is better than Follow me Ladz. That was wrong.
Killa kanz do not have Ere we go… damn. That is not good. So they are useless as Telyporting surprise. And pretty much anything in the first wave. In such case less Kans and more of something else would be better.
I tried to give there some mobile punchy touch giving the Morknonaut extra movement with the Pistons and via Mega Dreads. But this army desperately needs Advance and Charge.
Kans would be great if they get a CORE keyword. They will be able to benefit from Waaaaaagh and they could be a Orrible gitz and get the Obsec.
yea i just found out like 2 weeks ago after using killa kanz with deepstrike and ramming speed at a league match against grey knights. I dont recall if i used a free reroll there or not or if i successfully made my charge on the first try. But i found out afterwards that they dont have ere' we go. because it makes no SENSE that they dont have ere we go. Kind of stupid that 90% of the army has it but a select few doesnt. Sure normal grots could do without it, but of course a melee unit like killa kanz SHOULD have it.
For the love of Gork, even Grot mega tanks have it!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: I've always thought it was such a waste that they never implemented a DreadWAAAGH! option that buffs our walker units if you made a Big Mek your Warlord instead of a Warboss. They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember. As it is, our dred mob units are in an awkward spot where they don't get the most relevant benefits of either speedwaaagh or a regular waaagh.
indeed. going the extra mile of adding a "Walkerz" keyword and doing literally nothing with it is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. If theres no future expansion book in 9th edition for this to be expanded upon in a dreadwaaagh then it just makes absolutely no sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/31 20:32:21
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/03/31 20:46:34
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: Yeh, Inspiring leader is better than Follow me Ladz. That was wrong.
Killa kanz do not have Ere we go… damn. That is not good. So they are useless as Telyporting surprise. And pretty much anything in the first wave. In such case less Kans and more of something else would be better.
I tried to give there some mobile punchy touch giving the Morknonaut extra movement with the Pistons and via Mega Dreads. But this army desperately needs Advance and Charge.
Kans would be great if they get a CORE keyword. They will be able to benefit from Waaaaaagh and they could be a Orrible gitz and get the Obsec.
yea i just found out like 2 weeks ago after using killa kanz with deepstrike and ramming speed at a league match against grey knights. I dont recall if i used a free reroll there or not or if i successfully made my charge on the first try. But i found out afterwards that they dont have ere' we go. because it makes no SENSE that they dont have ere we go. Kind of stupid that 90% of the army has it but a select few doesnt. Sure normal grots could do without it, but of course a melee unit like killa kanz SHOULD have it.
For the love of Gork, even Grot mega tanks have it!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: I've always thought it was such a waste that they never implemented a DreadWAAAGH! option that buffs our walker units if you made a Big Mek your Warlord instead of a Warboss. They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember. As it is, our dred mob units are in an awkward spot where they don't get the most relevant benefits of either speedwaaagh or a regular waaagh.
indeed. going the extra mile of adding a "Walkerz" keyword and doing literally nothing with it is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. If theres no future expansion book in 9th edition for this to be expanded upon in a dreadwaaagh then it just makes absolutely no sense.
It's funny because I think the only rules interaction with that keyword is for the FW Goff special character Mekboss Buzzgob's command phase ability and I think that's it. I guess they really just wanted to focus on the squigs this edition :(
2022/03/31 22:28:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Grimskul wrote: They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember.
Yeah, Orks aren't the only ones with dead keywords. I was primarily a Space Wolves player waaay back in 3rd edition and now trying to get back into the hobby, and the Wolf Guard keyword does literally nothing that the name of the model wasn't already doing.
I was looking at Freebooterz, but if I am running 9 Deff Dreads, I wasn't sold that it is better than Deathskulls reroll(each model, each phase) along with the 5+++ against the self-inflicted Mortal Wounds from KMB. Until just now anyway. I looked at Deff Dreads again and realized they have a 5+ BS not the 4+ BS that Killa Kanz have. Apparently, I assumed since they were similar in theme, and 2-3x as expensive, that they would have similar stats.
Anyway, the average of 6 shots from 3x KMB means Freebooterz hit 3 of them after their bonus is triggered on average (and 2 before). If they get some additional firepower from the Killa Kanz to soften up a MSU of Marines (for example), it'll take 1-2 Deff Dreads with 3x KMB to finish off a squad. So say 7/9ths get the additional hit bonus, or average of 2.77 hits each and taking 9 MW on average. Each Deathskulls Deff Dread is going to average 2 hits before the reroll, and the reroll is a 1/3 likely to generate another hit, so 2.33 hits (18% less than Freebooterz). But since they will always reroll a 1 if given the chance, and they will roll a 1 each on average, it'll be something like 3ish MW for all 9 (chance of rolling multiple 1s, or rerolling a miss into a 1), then 5+++, so like 2 MW vs 9 MW. (not sure on the exact equation, but it feels good).
Nob with Waaagh! Banner won't stack with Freebooterz +1, but would help their bonus get started for that phase. Will probably take a couple Dreads in melee to kick off Freebooterz, but 4 attacks hitting on 2s averages 3.33 hits, and 4 attacks hitting on 3s with a single reroll also averages 3.33 hits. Deathskullz can reroll the wound roll instead if you roll well to hit. So at least for the Deff Dreads, I rate their reroll to be slightly better than Freebooterz +1, assuming both armies take the Banner and like 1/3-1/2 get that bonus.
I mentioned Proxying the Dreads, because I was thinking something like a printed Contemptor body with a triple KMB arm and a Claw arm for the Deff Dreads and a printed boxy Dread body for the Killa Kanz. Then painted like Ultramarines, for the Ork-tra Marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/31 22:34:39
2022/04/01 05:06:52
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: Yeh, Inspiring leader is better than Follow me Ladz. That was wrong.
Killa kanz do not have Ere we go… damn. That is not good. So they are useless as Telyporting surprise. And pretty much anything in the first wave. In such case less Kans and more of something else would be better.
I tried to give there some mobile punchy touch giving the Morknonaut extra movement with the Pistons and via Mega Dreads. But this army desperately needs Advance and Charge.
Kans would be great if they get a CORE keyword. They will be able to benefit from Waaaaaagh and they could be a Orrible gitz and get the Obsec.
yea i just found out like 2 weeks ago after using killa kanz with deepstrike and ramming speed at a league match against grey knights. I dont recall if i used a free reroll there or not or if i successfully made my charge on the first try. But i found out afterwards that they dont have ere' we go. because it makes no SENSE that they dont have ere we go. Kind of stupid that 90% of the army has it but a select few doesnt. Sure normal grots could do without it, but of course a melee unit like killa kanz SHOULD have it.
For the love of Gork, even Grot mega tanks have it!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: I've always thought it was such a waste that they never implemented a DreadWAAAGH! option that buffs our walker units if you made a Big Mek your Warlord instead of a Warboss. They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember. As it is, our dred mob units are in an awkward spot where they don't get the most relevant benefits of either speedwaaagh or a regular waaagh.
indeed. going the extra mile of adding a "Walkerz" keyword and doing literally nothing with it is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. If theres no future expansion book in 9th edition for this to be expanded upon in a dreadwaaagh then it just makes absolutely no sense.
It's funny because I think the only rules interaction with that keyword is for the FW Goff special character Mekboss Buzzgob's command phase ability and I think that's it. I guess they really just wanted to focus on the squigs this edition :(
Yea but even there they dropped the ball by not giving squiggoths the squig keyword..
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/04/01 05:15:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Grimskul wrote: They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember.
Yeah, Orks aren't the only ones with dead keywords. I was primarily a Space Wolves player waaay back in 3rd edition and now trying to get back into the hobby, and the Wolf Guard keyword does literally nothing that the name of the model wasn't already doing.
I was looking at Freebooterz, but if I am running 9 Deff Dreads, I wasn't sold that it is better than Deathskulls reroll(each model, each phase) along with the 5+++ against the self-inflicted Mortal Wounds from KMB. Until just now anyway. I looked at Deff Dreads again and realized they have a 5+ BS not the 4+ BS that Killa Kanz have. Apparently, I assumed since they were similar in theme, and 2-3x as expensive, that they would have similar stats.
Anyway, the average of 6 shots from 3x KMB means Freebooterz hit 3 of them after their bonus is triggered on average (and 2 before). If they get some additional firepower from the Killa Kanz to soften up a MSU of Marines (for example), it'll take 1-2 Deff Dreads with 3x KMB to finish off a squad. So say 7/9ths get the additional hit bonus, or average of 2.77 hits each and taking 9 MW on average. Each Deathskulls Deff Dread is going to average 2 hits before the reroll, and the reroll is a 1/3 likely to generate another hit, so 2.33 hits (18% less than Freebooterz). But since they will always reroll a 1 if given the chance, and they will roll a 1 each on average, it'll be something like 3ish MW for all 9 (chance of rolling multiple 1s, or rerolling a miss into a 1), then 5+++, so like 2 MW vs 9 MW. (not sure on the exact equation, but it feels good).
Nob with Waaagh! Banner won't stack with Freebooterz +1, but would help their bonus get started for that phase. Will probably take a couple Dreads in melee to kick off Freebooterz, but 4 attacks hitting on 2s averages 3.33 hits, and 4 attacks hitting on 3s with a single reroll also averages 3.33 hits. Deathskullz can reroll the wound roll instead if you roll well to hit. So at least for the Deff Dreads, I rate their reroll to be slightly better than Freebooterz +1, assuming both armies take the Banner and like 1/3-1/2 get that bonus.
I mentioned Proxying the Dreads, because I was thinking something like a printed Contemptor body with a triple KMB arm and a Claw arm for the Deff Dreads and a printed boxy Dread body for the Killa Kanz. Then painted like Ultramarines, for the Ork-tra Marines.
I feel like Freebooterz is a hard sell for Dred Mob because getting off that +1 to hit is a lot harder than it looks when you don't have the weight of fire or mobility to get to easy to squish targets like Speed Mob does through planes and set that initial +1 to hit for your army. Deathskulls is more consistent with having each unit have a reroll and like you said the 5+ save against mortals is becoming more relevant with the mortal wound abilities being disseminated across armies.
Tomsug wrote: Yeh, Inspiring leader is better than Follow me Ladz. That was wrong.
Killa kanz do not have Ere we go… damn. That is not good. So they are useless as Telyporting surprise. And pretty much anything in the first wave. In such case less Kans and more of something else would be better.
I tried to give there some mobile punchy touch giving the Morknonaut extra movement with the Pistons and via Mega Dreads. But this army desperately needs Advance and Charge.
Kans would be great if they get a CORE keyword. They will be able to benefit from Waaaaaagh and they could be a Orrible gitz and get the Obsec.
yea i just found out like 2 weeks ago after using killa kanz with deepstrike and ramming speed at a league match against grey knights. I dont recall if i used a free reroll there or not or if i successfully made my charge on the first try. But i found out afterwards that they dont have ere' we go. because it makes no SENSE that they dont have ere we go. Kind of stupid that 90% of the army has it but a select few doesnt. Sure normal grots could do without it, but of course a melee unit like killa kanz SHOULD have it.
For the love of Gork, even Grot mega tanks have it!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: I've always thought it was such a waste that they never implemented a DreadWAAAGH! option that buffs our walker units if you made a Big Mek your Warlord instead of a Warboss. They included the WALKERZ keyword and literally did nothing with it, we don't even have a strat dedicated to it as far as I remember. As it is, our dred mob units are in an awkward spot where they don't get the most relevant benefits of either speedwaaagh or a regular waaagh.
indeed. going the extra mile of adding a "Walkerz" keyword and doing literally nothing with it is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. If theres no future expansion book in 9th edition for this to be expanded upon in a dreadwaaagh then it just makes absolutely no sense.
It's funny because I think the only rules interaction with that keyword is for the FW Goff special character Mekboss Buzzgob's command phase ability and I think that's it. I guess they really just wanted to focus on the squigs this edition :(
Yea but even there they dropped the ball by not giving squiggoths the squig keyword..
Ugh, I forgot that. So dumb with how much can be fixed if they just sent an intern to clean up these datasheets/rulesets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/01 05:15:33
2022/04/01 07:14:33
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Deathskull vs Freebootas - yeah. It' s about obsec. Make an army totaly ignoring obsec in these days makes the army unable to score. So you need either your own, or at least anti-obsec banner.
I 'm definitely not the fan of the freebota clan ability. Unreliable and criple you the target prioritizing. I don' t like it at all.
Ah amazing! I suppose that makes sense. I was assuming it was the "you can only modify a dice roll by 1". But I can see why that would make sense for hit and wound rolls.
And then obviously AP reduces my save roll? So if I'm at 6+ save, and adding +3 to my rolls, the AP of the weapon is going to reduce my save rolls? Is that the way to think about it?
2022/04/01 23:21:11
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
It’s funny because it would have normally been a really strong defensive buff for orks to get a 3+ save and yet in 9th it’s not really that big a deal anymore. Still 3+ sv in light cover and deep strike for mobility makes kommandos one of our best infantry units.
2022/04/01 23:26:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Mythic Miniatures wrote: Ah amazing! I suppose that makes sense. I was assuming it was the "you can only modify a dice roll by 1". But I can see why that would make sense for hit and wound rolls.
And then obviously AP reduces my save roll? So if I'm at 6+ save, and adding +3 to my rolls, the AP of the weapon is going to reduce my save rolls? Is that the way to think about it?
Okay. Save roll time!
Your Save Characteristic (the X+ at the far right of your datasheet, under Sv) is always the number you need to pass.
Usually, the modifiers you see are negative. AP applies to the roll, so if you're hit with an AP-3 weapon, you roll 1d6-3 and need to hit your Save Characteristic to ignore that wound.
Cover and some abilities provide a bonus to that, with Cover being a +1 and abilities being whatever they say.
So, let's say you have some Kommandos in Light Cover (the kind that gives a bonus against Ranged Attacks). You need a 6+ result to ignore a wound, on 1d6+1 (Cover)+2 (Ability), or 3+ on die, assuming AP0.
If you're shot with an AP-2 weapon, you just subtract that in the die roll. 1d6+1+2-2, or 1d6+1. Need a 5+ on die.
This is probably needlessly technical! There's some rules oddities involving saves better than 2+, which is why there are no such saves in 40k (there were for a bit, before GW edited). There are EFFECTIVE 1+ or 0+ saves, where that's the result you'd need on die if 1s didn't always fail, but not TRUE 1+ or better saves.
Also, quick note-the only rolls that have modifiers capped at +/-1 are hit rolls and wound rolls. Everything else can be modified more than that.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2022/04/02 09:24:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Mythic Miniatures wrote: Ah amazing! I suppose that makes sense. I was assuming it was the "you can only modify a dice roll by 1". But I can see why that would make sense for hit and wound rolls.
And then obviously AP reduces my save roll? So if I'm at 6+ save, and adding +3 to my rolls, the AP of the weapon is going to reduce my save rolls? Is that the way to think about it?
Okay. Save roll time!
Your Save Characteristic (the X+ at the far right of your datasheet, under Sv) is always the number you need to pass.
Usually, the modifiers you see are negative. AP applies to the roll, so if you're hit with an AP-3 weapon, you roll 1d6-3 and need to hit your Save Characteristic to ignore that wound.
Cover and some abilities provide a bonus to that, with Cover being a +1 and abilities being whatever they say.
So, let's say you have some Kommandos in Light Cover (the kind that gives a bonus against Ranged Attacks). You need a 6+ result to ignore a wound, on 1d6+1 (Cover)+2 (Ability), or 3+ on die, assuming AP0.
If you're shot with an AP-2 weapon, you just subtract that in the die roll. 1d6+1+2-2, or 1d6+1. Need a 5+ on die.
This is probably needlessly technical! There's some rules oddities involving saves better than 2+, which is why there are no such saves in 40k (there were for a bit, before GW edited). There are EFFECTIVE 1+ or 0+ saves, where that's the result you'd need on die if 1s didn't always fail, but not TRUE 1+ or better saves.
Also, quick note-the only rolls that have modifiers capped at +/-1 are hit rolls and wound rolls. Everything else can be modified more than that.
Thank you for the breakdown, that was very helpful.
I have my first game booked for next Thursday; 500pts.
My list has a wazbom in it, but I'm a bit confused about whether I am going to be able to use it effectively. So the rules state, if the flyers/aircrafts base is outside the battlefield due to min moves it's either destroyed or placed into strat reserves. But it's only placed into strat reserves if that rule is being played?/ If my army is battleforged?
How do I know if the strat reserves rule is in effect? And on the minimum board size for a 500pt game is a flyer worth it?
I assume it would go; turn 1, I will be able to move up and shoot, turn 2 il move into reserves? Back on turn 3 and shoot? Turn 4 I should also be on the board, turn 5 il be off board and count as destroyed at the end of the game?
2022/04/02 18:49:23
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Well, with Tau, Custodes, Crusher, Harlies, Eldar still un-nerfed and running rampant all over the tournament scene, I think Alphork strike is effectively dead.
I think Buggies stand even less of a chance, especially in a meta where 9 Voidweavers are running about.
Wonder what would happen if I ran an Obsec heavy list whose sole purpose was to tag objectives and just die as slow as possible. Problem being....nothing we have can really hold objectives longer than a turn.
On the flipside, the AoR list might do well in this regard thanks to its Invuln...maybe its time to bring out more of my warbikers and Deffkoptas...not to mention my 3 scrapjetz
9 voidweavers are not meta though. No one, but hardcore meta chasers even has them, it was illegal to field more than 3 before and they were the worst unit in the codex. It's like saying that every ork players fielded 9 squigbuggies and/or 5 flyers back in their days.
Even at tournaments, how many ork meta chaser players did actually field that build? I don't think 9 voidweaver would become common to face. At tournaments I mean, they'll never exist outside them.
2022/04/03 08:12:08
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: Well, with Tau, Custodes, Crusher, Harlies, Eldar still un-nerfed and running rampant all over the tournament scene, I think Alphork strike is effectively dead.
I think Buggies stand even less of a chance, especially in a meta where 9 Voidweavers are running about.
Wonder what would happen if I ran an Obsec heavy list whose sole purpose was to tag objectives and just die as slow as possible. Problem being....nothing we have can really hold objectives longer than a turn.
On the flipside, the AoR list might do well in this regard thanks to its Invuln...maybe its time to bring out more of my warbikers and Deffkoptas...not to mention my 3 scrapjetz
Warbikers are obsec that can hold. 9 warbikers is a real pain to kill. So if you have 27 warbikers, do not hesitate! If you play large squads, you can efectively play Nachmund data. And if you play them as Blood Axe, you can shoot and do the action via strategem = move 9 bikers to the oposite quater 20”, fire 108 shots in first turn and do the Data and conquer the objective. In next turn, do it again.
Just do not bother to charge… then they die faster and they are just a 9 boyz… spread widely on the table….. you can block almost half of the table with such squad and hold multiple objectives.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/03 08:13:44
Blackie wrote: 9 voidweavers are not meta though. No one, but hardcore meta chasers even has them, it was illegal to field more than 3 before and they were the worst unit in the codex. It's like saying that every ork players fielded 9 squigbuggies and/or 5 flyers back in their days.
Even at tournaments, how many ork meta chaser players did actually field that build? I don't think 9 voidweaver would become common to face. At tournaments I mean, they'll never exist outside them.
True, but I am talking about Competitive meta, specifically the tournament scene. And Harlies came out shortly before the GT I went to, and every single Harlequins player was rocking 9.
If you are talking friendly games....its irrelevant, I would just refuse to play against a harlequins player who showed up to a friendly game with 9 voidweavers
Warbikers are obsec that can hold. 9 warbikers is a real pain to kill. So if you have 27 warbikers, do not hesitate! If you play large squads, you can efectively play Nachmund data. And if you play them as Blood Axe, you can shoot and do the action via strategem = move 9 bikers to the oposite quater 20”, fire 108 shots in first turn and do the Data and conquer the objective. In next turn, do it again.
Just do not bother to charge… then they die faster and they are just a 9 boyz… spread widely on the table….. you can block almost half of the table with such squad and hold multiple objectives.
Warbikers USED TO BE hard to shift. Not anymore. A custards unit is going to laugh at how easy it is to kill Warbikers, their Heavy Bolter infantry with their beam weapons as secondary are going to shoot both profiles because they are already -1 to hit anyway, its just a bad day right now in the competitive scene for orkz. And if they get stuck in combat with custards its even worse.
BTW 108 shots at S5 against a Custards unit bunched together on deployment with their banner works out to 18 hits, 9 wounds and 1.5dmg Yep, that is how ridiculous this game has gotten for us.
Well, trying to shoot down custards infantry with warbikers is double fail.
1. Fail is to try to shoot them with the warbikers. Their profile has different pourpose.
2. Fail is try to shoot them at all. Just blok their movement. That is all you need. You need to score. Not to kill some baroque angels. So yes, they gonna kill the bikers. And what? They scored, mission sucessful. If you play bikers as FB, they will be able to steal the custards the objective (and drop their banner they usually play) too via Badskull Banner. Mess for a turn that can make a difference about 9VP at least.
Warbikers shooting is great againts tau infantry or all kinds of eldar infantry. And guardsmans of course…
It is not rudiculous what this game gotten for us. Do you wanna see something ridiculous? Try to play IG. Average ork competitive list is for IG same type of problem like 9 voidweavers for us. That is ridiculous.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/03 17:56:53
This talk of "who actually has them" reminds me of the 7th edition wave serpent issues....
"Nobody has that many of them" i'd hear, and every eldar i faced had at least 6 every damn game...and nobody in my area are meta-chasers, they aint got the cash to drop like that.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2022/04/03 14:46:34
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I’m usually a rule of 3 guy and don’t like to chase spam lists and like to make each model different but there are plenty of people who buy and sell armies on the resellers market who end up chasing spam lists for tournaments or borrow units from friends..
I’m glad I didn’t buy that third ork flyer as I only had the original ork flyer kit magnetized with everything but the wazbom profile and a full wazbom magnetized. But I was able to play friendly and local games with both flyers counting as wazboms and didn’t need a third flyer. If I would have went to a major tournament though I would now have a third useless flyer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/03 15:33:11
2022/04/03 17:52:10
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Aagh, I bought the 4th box with the plane just because I love the model and wanted to make another great version long before it becames meta. Now it looks sadly down from the shelf to me. Propably became a good investment as I see the old price tag on the box…
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: This talk of "who actually has them" reminds me of the 7th edition wave serpent issues....
"Nobody has that many of them" i'd hear, and every eldar i faced had at least 6 every damn game...and nobody in my area are meta-chasers, they aint got the cash to drop like that.
Somebody says Smashaguns? There is a saying in Prague “Anything can be a Smashagun”
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/03 17:58:14
Vineheart01 wrote: This talk of "who actually has them" reminds me of the 7th edition wave serpent issues....
"Nobody has that many of them" i'd hear, and every eldar i faced had at least 6 every damn game...and nobody in my area are meta-chasers, they aint got the cash to drop like that.
I seem to recall Wave Serpents being an issue in 4th-5th as well, so maybe not a surprise people still had plenty!
2022/04/03 18:37:37
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
So my tournament this weekend is over, just a small one with 24 players but 5 games.
Brought my Blood Axe Speedmob again:
Spoiler:
Wartrike (Warlord, I`ve got a plan lads, finkin cap)
Warboss on Bike
3 Scrapjets
2 KBB 2 Dragsta
2 Squigbuggies
1 Snazzwagon
2 Wazboms
5 + 5 + 4 Bikes
I went for my usual tactic and put the Scrapjets in tellyporta every game and the Wazboms and Dragstas went into strategic reserve.
While i was lucky to face none of the 5 Custodes or 5 pure Harlies (one dark with a bit more bikes, the rest all boats) i had 2 matches against Tau, 1 against the only IG player and 1 against Harlies with Eldar. Sadly game 3 was autowin for me as player 24 got sick and i was the worst player at that time after 2 losses. :(
First game against IG: A really close one that i lost by about 87:79. Mainly because my Scrapjets failed their ramming Speed charge out of the tellyporta which meant a 12 points primary swing. He had 6 x 10 guardsmen with 4 transporters, 3 Tank commanders, 2 Mantikore, 1 Wyvern and a huge mob of Bulgryns who pushed for the midboard and tanked sooo many 4++. Besides of that we both killed almost all of our armies and it was really fun! In the end going first was the advantage that gave him the edge as he pushed for the objectives with his infantry which blocked a lot of my movement and i needed to use some of my shooting to clear the objectives before i could handle his heavy hitters.
Second game against Borkan Tau with 1 Riptide and otherwise typical list with lots of crisis. He also went first and pushed really hard for objectives and board control which pushed back my own reserves. What followed was a brutal trade of blows which ended with both having less than 300 points left. My Scrapjets failed another tellyport ramming speed charge which gave my a zero primary turn and gave him 12 instead of 4. And safed his most dangeroud crisis blob that had lost the 2+ 4+++ chef and all drones before. :/
Also RND was an absolute nightmare. The mob of 4 rolled a 5, and my mobs of 5 both rolled a 6 in turn 2 + 3. I did one RND turn 4 but he killed my bikes before i could get at least 4 VP out of it. Together with the Scrapjet fail and afterwards hard scoring it ended up about 70:45 but should have been a lot closer.
After the free win for game 3 i was paired against a Harlies & Aeldari soup led by Yncarne. Pumped up Death Jester, Shadowseer, Eldar Psykers, Banshees, Scorpions, 2 x Harlies with 2 Shadowweavers, Nightspinner, multiple D-Cannon Weapon platforms, 2 Voidweavers, 2 x rangers, 1 avengers squad and everything tooled up with the usual meta upgrades.
Oh boy my dices were on fire in that one! I surely never had so many 6+++ and 5+++ i rolled for my vehicles. But he had made 2 - 3 big mistakes, the worst was to jump his Yncarne on an objective midfield but he had a hole in his screening so my Scrapjets went in from tellyporta and rammed him down to 2 wounds after 1 Wazbom had taken off a few wounds and killed him in melee. I played the game without any mistakes and was able to max out every secondary. 15/15 engage, 15/15 Asassinate, 7/7 No Prisoners and Primaries were maxed out turn 4. I managed to deny him any primaries on which he did 0 and since it would have been 0 points for him total we switched his TTL to Bring it Down midgame so he ended up with 16, including battle ready score. His light Harlies soaked up a lot of firepower but in the end he had only 1 Shadowweaver left with 2 wounds and i had lost 1 Wazbom, all Bikes, 1 KBB and the 3 Scrapjets.
Last game: Tau again, this time Farsight allied world with 3 Broadsides, 2 x Devilfish Breachers, 2 Commanders, Ethereal, 10 Kroot, 1 Stealth Suit unit and the rest maxed out Crisis of those 3 + 5 in reserve for the full reroll strat. The table was not perfekt so i couldn`t hide all my stuff, so he deepstriked his squad of 5 crisis turn one and went for a devastating alpha strike turn 1 & 2. Until my reserves arrived he had killed everything besides 2 single Bikes, the Wartrike and the 2 Squigbuggies.
I was able to score a bit but was allready a bit behind.
Second turn all my reserves come in, i knew i needed a crippling strike to have any chance on a win. Shooting killed 1 Devilfish, 10 Breachers, almost all Drones, 7 Crisis and all ghosts but my Scrapjets failed ramming Speed a third time on this tournament, to be fair this time with a 11" charge because he used his -2" charge strat.
That was game deciding though, as it meant a whooping 15 VP swing because i needed the charge to get to my primary objective as well.
After that we just killed all of our stuff and i was really fighting for every objective to score as much as possible and in the end he had only the 2 Commanders, his camping Ethereal and 3 Broadsides left who must have killed 1000 points all by themselves.
With his last shooting model he managed to kill the last squigbuggy which costed me another 7 VP and got me tabled for the first and only time that tournament.
But since i needed 3 turns to kill all his stuff midfield he got the edge on me with primary and stranglehold - didn`t help that i took Assassinate (0 VP) instead of 4 safe VP for bring it down either so in the end i lost about 85 to 45 i think but it felt a lot closer tbh.
Overall i am happy, as my goal was to win at least 1 game and i ended up placing 17/24 due to that free win round 3.
The list as it is worked great and all 3 losses were close games were i got to kill most of my opponents stuff but failed to score properly. To fail 3/4 Scrapjet charges from tellyporta felt really bad, but i wouldn`t change it.
Only thing i WILL change is never play 5 Bikes in Speedmob again and fail RND. Would have won that 1 game if i had simply played 6 + 6 instead 5+5+3.
The problem is, i need to cut points if i want to have 3 x 6 Bikes which is a nice thing to have. There wasn`t one unit that performed badly this weekend. But i guess leaving one Buggy is the way to go as it would free up points and also reduce the Bring it down VP to 14. I guess it will hit the dragstas, i had 2 cases where i couldn`t place them properly in 6" with both getting a good shooting angle. This would also open up the possibility to use him as a single engage buggy, which he is really good at and i could use the free i`ve got a plan lads slot for 6 Bikes to improve my RND scoring.
If they weren`t so bad i`d even consider Nob Bikers instead of the Snazzwaggon for a bit more ObSec, if GW ever updates those it might open up a few more options.
Would be good to further reduce the Bring it Down count as well!
(So those Custodes and Harlies armies don`t get that 100:x win against you, there have been a few of those this tournament. )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/03 21:44:41
2022/04/04 06:50:39
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
True, but I am talking about Competitive meta, specifically the tournament scene. And Harlies came out shortly before the GT I went to, and every single Harlequins player was rocking 9.
If you are talking friendly games....its irrelevant, I would just refuse to play against a harlequins player who showed up to a friendly game with 9 voidweavers
I was talking about competitive metas. How many ork players did actually field 9 squigbuggies and 5 flyers back when they outraged other players? Not every ork players fielded that build, probably not even the majority of ork players attending tournaments. And ork players are much more than harlequins ones.
I really don't see harlequins players jumping to buy 6-9 voidweavers just because they're the flavour of the month NOW. We all know they're not gonna last for long. Only some hardcore meta chasers will get them, and even in tournaments those kind of guys aren't the majority. So they'll certainly show up regularly but it's not like they'll become a common build to face everytime someone goes to a tournament.
Maybe big events are even more hardcore oriented than common local tournaments and in such places it might be common to face those 9 voidweavers, though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 08:01:22
2022/04/04 07:25:02
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: 2. Fail is try to shoot them at all. Just blok their movement. That is all you need. You need to score. Not to kill some baroque angels. So yes, they gonna kill the bikers. And what? They scored, mission sucessful. If you play bikers as FB, they will be able to steal the custards the objective (and drop their banner they usually play) too via Badskull Banner. Mess for a turn that can make a difference about 9VP at least.
QFT. It´s so tiresome to read all this "but it doesn´t kill stuff!!!" in every unit assessment when scoring has so little do do with it and VP wins games. You should approach army building with a scoring plan first and then how to fight/survive long enough. Going in with the attitude "I´ll kill everything and then score whatever" is asking for a loss.
I win half the games at my club because of this mindset. So many players show up and go "Eeeh, I´ll pick whatever." and then get surprised when they lose. "But, but, I killed SO much...".
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
