Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

AP can't be reduced past 0. This is buried in the Glossary of the Core book.

imagine going in to bad moon and using shoota boyz and getting that wound on 6s to get -1AP against space marines.


Imagine having a clan trait thats completely nullified on your own units, by a random balance sheet.

Bad moon was meant to be the clan for infantry shooting in general, yet here we are, and our infantry dont really do much when their trait goes off on a wound on a 6, because the AP we just received gets taken away.

CaptainO wrote:
Boomboyz is now a must.

Yeah, AP-1 rokkits unless being under Speedwaagh is ridiculous.

Beardedragon wrote:
imagine going in to bad moon and using shoota boyz and getting that wound on 6s to get -1AP against space marines.


Imagine having a clan trait thats completely nullified on your own units, by a random balance sheet.

Bad moon was meant to be the clan for infantry shooting in general, yet here we are, and our infantry dont really do much when their trait goes off on a wound on a 6, because the AP we just received gets taken away.

This is actually why i do play badmoonz, that AP1 on 6s tends to do work when you puke out dice.
Is it better than Goff? proably not, but i have more fun with it and thats what matters.

2/3 of the people i face are marines of some sort. Guess what im not going to be doing now.

I'm fed up with GW's balance, the last time i shelved my armies was in 7th edition but that was because it was boring. Now its just so convoluted and unstable i get a freaking headache trying to remember everything going on and keep track with their rapid knee-jerk reaction nerfs/buffs.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
imagine going in to bad moon and using shoota boyz and getting that wound on 6s to get -1AP against space marines.


Imagine having a clan trait thats completely nullified on your own units, by a random balance sheet.

Bad moon was meant to be the clan for infantry shooting in general, yet here we are, and our infantry dont really do much when their trait goes off on a wound on a 6, because the AP we just received gets taken away.

This is actually why i do play badmoonz, that AP1 on 6s tends to do work when you puke out dice.
Is it better than Goff? proably not, but i have more fun with it and thats what matters.

2/3 of the people i face are marines of some sort. Guess what im not going to be doing now.

I'm fed up with GW's balance, the last time i shelved my armies was in 7th edition but that was because it was boring. Now its just so convoluted and unstable i get a freaking headache trying to remember everything going on and keep track with their rapid knee-jerk reaction nerfs/buffs.

This might be the least exciting time to be an Ork.

Our codex isn't years away, and the best we can really hope for is... our units get super cheap again? CC Orks are going to lose badly now into Armour of Contempt armies.

AP1 is now pretty mediocre and our codex is lousy with it. Our CC characters often start at AP2. They'll be able to barely scratch the paint off of a terminator.

Double LC terminators are 33 points and are now magnitudes more durable than Mega Nobs -- if being shot at in cover, you'd need AP5 just to get to them to their invul. AP4 in combat.

 Vineheart01 wrote:


This is actually why i do play badmoonz, that AP1 on 6s tends to do work when you puke out dice.
Is it better than Goff? proably not, but i have more fun with it and thats what matters.

Goffs rely on different builds though, Bad Moons compete with Freebooterz instead. And they not always are the worst options between the two shooty klans, in small games or even standard ones where it's hard to trigger the +1 hit for example.

Pickled_egg wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
“Hey orks, here’s ap on your choppas to deal with power armor”
Heh, definitely worth the price increase.

I think there is a solid argument for boyz being around 6-7 points each in this meta.

9 is frankly ridiculous

Bud, with the level of absolute flying rodent gak insane power creep, you could argue 5ppm boyz wouldn't be broken anymore.

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
imagine going in to bad moon and using shoota boyz and getting that wound on 6s to get -1AP against space marines.


Imagine having a clan trait thats completely nullified on your own units, by a random balance sheet.

Bad moon was meant to be the clan for infantry shooting in general, yet here we are, and our infantry dont really do much when their trait goes off on a wound on a 6, because the AP we just received gets taken away.

This is actually why i do play badmoonz, that AP1 on 6s tends to do work when you puke out dice.
Is it better than Goff? proably not, but i have more fun with it and thats what matters.

2/3 of the people i face are marines of some sort. Guess what im not going to be doing now.

I'm fed up with GW's balance, the last time i shelved my armies was in 7th edition but that was because it was boring. Now its just so convoluted and unstable i get a freaking headache trying to remember everything going on and keep track with their rapid knee-jerk reaction nerfs/buffs.

This might be the least exciting time to be an Ork.

Our codex isn't years away, and the best we can really hope for is... our units get super cheap again? CC Orks are going to lose badly now into Armour of Contempt armies.

AP1 is now pretty mediocre and our codex is lousy with it. Our CC characters often start at AP2. They'll be able to barely scratch the paint off of a terminator.

Double LC terminators are 33 points and are now magnitudes more durable than Mega Nobs -- if being shot at in cover, you'd need AP5 just to get to them to their invul. AP4 in combat.

We're also any army stuffed full of D2 with -1 D being handed out all over the place.

I'm going to give Goffs a try this weekend anyways.

Ok, I give it a try with the new rules agaiants very experienced player with the sisters.

I' ve lost something like 72:85 and it was my best result againts this dude by far I every did, so definitely success! I have to admit he opened the game “custodes sucks now so I want check the sisters” however Two of mine positioning fails on the end killed by deffkoptas = -10 VP on TTL for me and +10VP on bring it down for him plus I lost one objective = another 4VP different.


Notes:
- no squigbuggies? Well, my new list without them is actually more killy than my previous one. This is a change, yes. But not a nerf. Definitely not, because the same rule protect my Koptas againts Hyve Guard and Tau shooting. So I like it.

- better save on imperial dudes - well, that is definitely visible. Soft sisters in cover with this weapon have a crazy saves. This shakes the rating of our units. Dakkajet is now much worse than before. Boomboyz deffkoptas are the winners. Snazzwagon is suddenly pretty good with the fix number of 14 shots 5/-2/2 and cheap price tag. Just the bloody -1dmg around…

- The feeling from the game was definitely not feeling of crapy army. And the guy I was playing againts scores high in TTS Alpha league and usually used to be able to table me T3. So test passed. We ' re fine. Stop moaning.

- I' m looking for the next game with my Imperial Guard buddy, finaly it will be something I hope…



Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

Pickled_egg wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
“Hey orks, here’s ap on your choppas to deal with power armor”
Heh, definitely worth the price increase.

I think there is a solid argument for boyz being around 6-7 points each in this meta.

9 is frankly ridiculous

Bud, with the level of absolute flying rodent gak insane power creep, you could argue 5ppm boyz wouldn't be broken anymore.

Agree. Ork infantry based on boyz is very weak now. But don ' t be sad. Remember, there is a new Boyz kit! So expect some Boyz AOR or something like this no later in a year to pimp up the selling of this kit.

we talked about how massed boyz and infantry is going to suck going forward?

Well guess what i painted up and is taking to the next GT in june? Kommandos, stormboyz, trukkboyz and deffkoptas as goffs.

Im just glad its a team tournament, so ill have to fight off other xenos i guess otherwise its like hitting with wet noodles against their power armors. Maybe i should change out my 9 deffkoptas for something buggywise given im using ghaz anyway for the great waaagh. Or maybe some grot mega tanks with scorchas or rokkits..

Well, the fact is that the change on Boyz and their derivations is minor. They were crap before the dataslate and now they are just bigger crap. And crap is a crap.

What is important to say is, that almost no armies that gain The Armour of Compensation is the army regularly placed well in meta. Look at the win rates few weaks old - who got this? Deathwatch and Grey Knights? And the next nearest faction is like 7 places behind the orks?

So dont be a pussies. Some crap armies get a buff they need more than we. Deal with it.

What important is that the faction that hurts us significantly - Custodes, Harleis, Tau - get a significant nerf. This buffs our position. So I really struggle to see Orks as a big loosers of this Dataslate.

Buggiest problem in this dataslate was the murder of the squigbuggy without reversing any of the other nerfs it already got. I mean you can remove the buggy limit now and heck reduce the point nerf to 15 pts or even 10pts and the squigbuggy still wouldn’t be the best option. To be fair that buggy limit was never needed especially when they had the option to just push the chapter approved points hike early like they did w admech and drukari.

Well, a lot of competitive list used just a single RSB already. I think it is not a nerf so much. We cannot use the RSB well but the opponents cannot use the indirect too. We can simply use some another buggy and nothing change.

In fact, this Dataslate is not a nerf of the Boyz. It is a buff. Because now if someone plays them, he plays them as backfield objective / RND scoring unit. So they do not fight. So they do not care about some AP. On the other hand, they are happy that opponents indirect is nerfed because that keeps them alive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And one last note - everybody are crazy about terminators and their crazy safes. But who cares about them. Just park a squad of warbikers 1,1” in front of them and than do it again another turn and again. Such way you block 600p of melee monsters by 75p unit.

The game is win by the VPs. Not by killing terminators. It' s the same like killing Custodes. They are slow. And with the poor shooting. Just block them and score around. Say hallo to Bitz, Engage and TTL.

I mean I don’t see orks going up in ranking due to the other armies changes. We didn’t go up when greyknights was knocked out and we won’t with custodes being gone.. tau is still decent, as is eldar, Tyranids, even drukari is still just as good.

Just like, rip my Dakkajets totally into the plot armor of contempt

gungo wrote:
I mean I don’t see orks going up in ranking due to the other armies changes. We didn’t go up when greyknights was knocked out and we won’t with custodes being gone.. tau is still decent, as is eldar, Tyranids, even drukari is still just as good.

Mehh drukhari are soft. Die in T4. The biggest problem is to stop them from scoring.

The greatest respect I have is from Stampede. That is super tough match up for me.

And I wanna see post-Dataslate Custodes. If they go down to 1-2 squads of bikes, it became something to be possible to fight with. 1 squad please…



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Just like, rip my Dakkajets totally into the plot armor of contempt

yes

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, the fact is that the change on Boyz and their derivations is minor. They were crap before the dataslate and now they are just bigger crap. And crap is a crap.

What is important to say is, that almost no armies that gain The Armour of Compensation is the army regularly placed well in meta. Look at the win rates few weaks old - who got this? Deathwatch and Grey Knights? And the next nearest faction is like 7 places behind the orks?

So dont be a pussies. Some crap armies get a buff they need more than we. Deal with it.

What important is that the faction that hurts us significantly - Custodes, Harleis, Tau - get a significant nerf. This buffs our position. So I really struggle to see Orks as a big loosers of this Dataslate.

honestly one of the biggest issues issues for orks in tournaments now is they are going to have a terrible matchup to space marines. I don't think this update kills orks for casual play but I think they will be, barring some lucky matchups, kept off top tables without being able to beat the marines ignoring an ap.

 Tomsug wrote:

gungo wrote:
I mean I don’t see orks going up in ranking due to the other armies changes. We didn’t go up when greyknights was knocked out and we won’t with custodes being gone.. tau is still decent, as is eldar, Tyranids, even drukari is still just as good.

Mehh drukhari are soft. Die in T4. The biggest problem is to stop them from scoring.

The greatest respect I have is from Stampede. That is super tough match up for me.

And I wanna see post-Dataslate Custodes. If they go down to 1-2 squads of bikes, it became something to be possible to fight with. 1 squad please…



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Just like, rip my Dakkajets totally into the plot armor of contempt

yes

I mean drukari was still tearing up the placings during LVO in January and nothing really changed for them except new codexs came out that were stronger and everyone else got nerfed with generic rules changes… out of sight shooting and bodyguard shenanigans didn’t really effect them..
custodes got hammered w single use abilities, unable to use certain abilities on non troops, cutting of obj secured, bikes are significantly less durable now.. still surprised trajinn is so cheap but I don’t think custodes can survive major design changes that allowed them to score easier and survive longer.
Leviathan stampede w new codex is brokenly bad but I hope when thier codex drops there will be day 1 or 2 errata to fix it…
Again none of the above make orks better… we don’t exist in a zero sum game…. We don’t necessarily win when someone else loses.
I’m annoyed at the knee jerk nerfs on orks and then lack of thought on our issues.. poor Strats, unfixed datasheets, and just butchered units like squiggbuggy or nob bikers or regular boys..

To the chap who asked wazbomms or dakkajet the answer is now definitively wazbomms.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

honestly one of the biggest issues issues for orks in tournaments now is they are going to have a terrible matchup to space marines. I don't think this update kills orks for casual play but I think they will be, barring some lucky matchups, kept off top tables without being able to beat the marines ignoring an ap.

Depend on the ork army propably. I never had a problem to beat any kind of marines or drukhrarry with my speedmob. Just the Dead Guard in experienced hands was a pain. But anything else with “marine” characteristic was a easy cake for me.

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, the fact is that the change on Boyz and their derivations is minor. They were crap before the dataslate and now they are just bigger crap. And crap is a crap.

What is important to say is, that almost no armies that gain The Armour of Compensation is the army regularly placed well in meta. Look at the win rates few weaks old - who got this? Deathwatch and Grey Knights? And the next nearest faction is like 7 places behind the orks?

So dont be a pussies. Some crap armies get a buff they need more than we. Deal with it.

What important is that the faction that hurts us significantly - Custodes, Harleis, Tau - get a significant nerf. This buffs our position. So I really struggle to see Orks as a big loosers of this Dataslate.

Yes Tom, but that isn't because those armies were bad, it was because Custodes, Harlies, Tau, Eldar and Crusher were just broken in every possible way so that those armies by default had no chance. I'll put it to you this way, I had MORE Eldar/Harly armies at the last GT I went to than Marines....that has never happened before to me.

As far as how this will impact us, goofy is kind of spot on here. Against Marines we kind of suck now. A unit of 3 deffkoptas just went from killing 2.2 Marines a Turn (not great, not bad) to killing 1.6 (Not good at all), in CC on a WAAAGH turn they just went from killing 3 Marines outright to killing 2. To put it another way, this "update" takes away about 1/3rd of our dmg output with AP weapons. And I dont' know about you guys, but my armies can't really afford those losses.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, the fact is that the change on Boyz and their derivations is minor. They were crap before the dataslate and now they are just bigger crap. And crap is a crap.

What is important to say is, that almost no armies that gain The Armour of Compensation is the army regularly placed well in meta. Look at the win rates few weaks old - who got this? Deathwatch and Grey Knights? And the next nearest faction is like 7 places behind the orks?

So dont be a pussies. Some crap armies get a buff they need more than we. Deal with it.

What important is that the faction that hurts us significantly - Custodes, Harleis, Tau - get a significant nerf. This buffs our position. So I really struggle to see Orks as a big loosers of this Dataslate.

Yes Tom, but that isn't because those armies were bad, it was because Custodes, Harlies, Tau, Eldar and Crusher were just broken in every possible way so that those armies by default had no chance. I'll put it to you this way, I had MORE Eldar/Harly armies at the last GT I went to than Marines....that has never happened before to me.

As far as how this will impact us, goofy is kind of spot on here. Against Marines we kind of suck now. A unit of 3 deffkoptas just went from killing 2.2 Marines a Turn (not great, not bad) to killing 1.6 (Not good at all), in CC on a WAAAGH turn they just went from killing 3 Marines outright to killing 2. To put it another way, this "update" takes away about 1/3rd of our dmg output with AP weapons. And I dont' know about you guys, but my armies can't really afford those losses.

Until something else changes, Orks are probably a low 40s, if not sub 40s army competitively.

Most matchups are either us being unfavoured to just a probable loss. Losing 1 AP army wide for us is *devastating*.

Expect to see a wall of 2+ saves. Terminators are absolute premium, and even power armour now is incredibly tanky against our low AP army.

Yeah, I feel bad in particular for people running klanz like Bad Moonz for fun, because those 6's for extra AP is effectively pointless for so many guns that most Bad Moon players would take, like shootas/big shootas/deffgunz, amongst other thingz, so this still impacts even the non-competitive side of things and skews things even worse.

Legit they would have to include an AP bonus to melee attacks for Regular WAAAGH! now to make it so we keep up with parity which is silly, and we either need more reliable firepower or accuracy to compensate for the lack of AP for Speedwaaagh. In both cases, it's looking pretty rough for the rest of 9th ed for us.

Not looking to be super competitive, but coming back after 6th edition the army construction rules are a bit confusing to me...stratagems and command points especially.

I really want to field an army that features Bikers heavily, with a Warboss Warlord on Warbike. With the bulk of the troops being Trukk Boyz. Not really interested in any of the squig models/units even though they may be powerful.

Not a massive fan of all the new buggy models but could be convinced to run them.

What is the best Clan Kultur for this? I've seen some videos saying Bad Moonz, but I also see Speed Freaks are a subset of just about any Kultur.

I've also noticed when I try to make a list in Battlescribe anytime I add an HQ in addition to my Ork Warboss on warbike it says I can only have 1 speedboss....seems a bit weird. Is a Big Mek with a KFF still worthwhile?

Any advice on stratagems, kultur, useful relics, etc would be nice. I've also seen there is an "Army of Renown" for Speed Freaks but I don't really understand how that works either. I tried to build one and Battlescribe started throwing up errors all over the place.

If I put a Big Mek in a Battlewagon with a KFF does the aura still expand 6" out from the Battlewagon model?

If you don't choose a Kultur and an instead choose the Mob Specialist can you really not have more than one unit of Trukk Boyz Specialists?

Griever wrote:
Not looking to be super competitive, but coming back after 6th edition the army construction rules are a bit confusing to me...stratagems and command points especially.

I really want to field an army that features Bikers heavily, with a Warboss Warlord on Warbike. With the bulk of the troops being Trukk Boyz. Not really interested in any of the squig models/units even though they may be powerful.

Not a massive fan of all the new buggy models but could be convinced to run them.

What is the best Clan Kultur for this? I've seen some videos saying Bad Moonz, but I also see Speed Freaks are a subset of just about any Kultur.

I've also noticed when I try to make a list in Battlescribe anytime I add an HQ in addition to my Ork Warboss on warbike it says I can only have 1 speedboss....seems a bit weird. Is a Big Mek with a KFF still worthwhile?

Any advice on stratagems, kultur, useful relics, etc would be nice. I've also seen there is an "Army of Renown" for Speed Freaks but I don't really understand how that works either. I tried to build one and Battlescribe started throwing up errors all over the place.

If you don't choose a Kultur and an instead choose the Mob Specialist can you really not have more than one unit of Trukk Boyz Specialists?

Welcome to the WAAAGH! I'm not surprised at all that you're confused with regards to the changes that have been made since 6th ed. If you want a succint and clear rules summary for the core rules, do check out wahapedia, the layout and organization makes it a lot easier to digest the information.

In terms of your questions, if you're aiming for a bike heavy army, I really do suggest going for the Speed Mob Army of Renown option. Army of Renown effectively gives you a specific army archetype that gives you additional rules but comes with restrictions for the detachments you take in the army. So in the case of Speed Mob, you get the Adrenaline Junkies rule that gives you a 6+ invuln baseline for all Speed Freeks units, which turns into a 5+ invuln if you've advanced with them that turn. You also get the ability to advance and not count as having done so until the end of your shooting phase. You also get +1A on the charge. You'll also have access to specific Speed Mob only stratagems and WL traits/kustom jobs. The trade off is that you are only allowed to take units that have the Speed Freek, WAGON and Aircraft keywords in your army, so no footsloggers in your army. Furthermore, you lose the klan kultur abilities for the speed freek units in your army in return BUT you keep the klan keyword, which is very important since that means you can still use klan specific stratagems on them.

The best options for klanz when you run this are typically Evil Sunz, Freebootas or Blood Axes since they all have different strats and relics you can use even if you don't get the benefit of their klan kultur (planes aside). Since you already get a baseline invuln for Speed Mob, a Big Mek with KFF is completely redundant and also can't be taken in a Speed Mob army due to its restrictions. You're basically forced to only take Warboss on Warbike or a Deffkilla Wartrike as HQ's. (I highly suggest the Warboss on Warbike to be given the Killa Klaw relic and the WL trait Brutal but Kunnin to give your army some much needed CC punch).

Also, the way specialist mobs work is that you basically trade in a kultur for a single unit in each detachment to be one of the specialist mobz they detail in the list. Unfortunately, that means you are limited to a max of one trukk boyz unit per detachment you have.

If you're hesitant towards buggies, currently the best one to go for are megatrakk scrapjets, because of their versatility of having both good CC and shooting ability. Their main drawback is being the slowest (only 10" base movement), so you will want to be careful with positioning or consider even deepstriking them via the Tellyport stratagem.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Griever wrote:
If I put a Big Mek in a Battlewagon with a KFF does the aura still expand 6" out from the Battlewagon model?

Nope. Sadly that is gone. If you want KFF protection it must be with a model on the table with the KFF aura.

 Grimskul wrote:

Griever wrote:
Not looking to be super competitive, but coming back after 6th edition the army construction rules are a bit confusing to me...stratagems and command points especially.

I really want to field an army that features Bikers heavily, with a Warboss Warlord on Warbike. With the bulk of the troops being Trukk Boyz. Not really interested in any of the squig models/units even though they may be powerful.

Not a massive fan of all the new buggy models but could be convinced to run them.

What is the best Clan Kultur for this? I've seen some videos saying Bad Moonz, but I also see Speed Freaks are a subset of just about any Kultur.

I've also noticed when I try to make a list in Battlescribe anytime I add an HQ in addition to my Ork Warboss on warbike it says I can only have 1 speedboss....seems a bit weird. Is a Big Mek with a KFF still worthwhile?

Any advice on stratagems, kultur, useful relics, etc would be nice. I've also seen there is an "Army of Renown" for Speed Freaks but I don't really understand how that works either. I tried to build one and Battlescribe started throwing up errors all over the place.

If you don't choose a Kultur and an instead choose the Mob Specialist can you really not have more than one unit of Trukk Boyz Specialists?

Welcome to the WAAAGH! I'm not surprised at all that you're confused with regards to the changes that have been made since 6th ed. If you want a succint and clear rules summary for the core rules, do check out wahapedia, the layout and organization makes it a lot easier to digest the information.

In terms of your questions, if you're aiming for a bike heavy army, I really do suggest going for the Speed Mob Army of Renown option. Army of Renown effectively gives you a specific army archetype that gives you additional rules but comes with restrictions for the detachments you take in the army. So in the case of Speed Mob, you get the Adrenaline Junkies rule that gives you a 6+ invuln baseline for all Speed Freeks units, which turns into a 5+ invuln if you've advanced with them that turn. You also get the ability to advance and not count as having done so until the end of your shooting phase. You also get +1A on the charge. You'll also have access to specific Speed Mob only stratagems and WL traits/kustom jobs. The trade off is that you are only allowed to take units that have the Speed Freek, WAGON and Aircraft keywords in your army, so no footsloggers in your army. Furthermore, you lose the klan kultur abilities for the speed freek units in your army in return BUT you keep the klan keyword, which is very important since that means you can still use klan specific stratagems on them.

The best options for klanz when you run this are typically Evil Sunz, Freebootas or Blood Axes since they all have different strats and relics you can use even if you don't get the benefit of their klan kultur (planes aside). Since you already get a baseline invuln for Speed Mob, a Big Mek with KFF is completely redundant and also can't be taken in a Speed Mob army due to its restrictions. You're basically forced to only take Warboss on Warbike or a Deffkilla Wartrike as HQ's. (I highly suggest the Warboss on Warbike to be given the Killa Klaw relic and the WL trait Brutal but Kunnin to give your army some much needed CC punch).

Also, the way specialist mobs work is that you basically trade in a kultur for a single unit in each detachment to be one of the specialist mobz they detail in the list. Unfortunately, that means you are limited to a max of one trukk boyz unit per detachment you have.

If you're hesitant towards buggies, currently the best one to go for are megatrakk scrapjets, because of their versatility of having both good CC and shooting ability. Their main drawback is being the slowest (only 10" base movement), so you will want to be careful with positioning or consider even deepstriking them via the Tellyport stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Griever wrote:
If I put a Big Mek in a Battlewagon with a KFF does the aura still expand 6" out from the Battlewagon model?

Nope. Sadly that is gone. If you want KFF protection it must be with a model on the table with the KFF aura.

Thanks for the reply. This may be a battlescribe question...but when I select the Speed Mob Army of Renown it throws up errors that I need 2 HQ's....but you can't select any more than 1 HQ because that breaks the "you can only have 1 speedboss" rule but all the HQ's count as speedbosses.

It also throws up the "you need at least 3 troops error" but when I select Speed Mob Army of Renown you cannot select any troops at all accoring to the army builder.

Is this just the case of Battlescribe not correctly implementing the Speed Mob rules correctly? Or do I have to run multiple detachments just to complete an army? Which if I do I think I might just give up because my head is going to explode. If I do have to, do I just have to run a barebones detachment of a regular battalion to fulfil those HQ/Troops requirements in the same army?

Until I figure that out, I created an army I would like using the regular detachment rules for 2,000 points, any advice/tips would be appreciated: https://pastebin.com/eSN3DS1E

The Meganobz go in one Battlewagon with the Big Mek, The 19 strong boyz squad goes in the other with the Painboy. The two 12 man boyz squads go in the Trukks..and I figured I'd need an obsec/troop unit to sit on objectives in/around my deployment zone so that's what the Shoota Boyz squad is for.

Griever wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Griever wrote:
Not looking to be super competitive, but coming back after 6th edition the army construction rules are a bit confusing to me...stratagems and command points especially.

I really want to field an army that features Bikers heavily, with a Warboss Warlord on Warbike. With the bulk of the troops being Trukk Boyz. Not really interested in any of the squig models/units even though they may be powerful.

Not a massive fan of all the new buggy models but could be convinced to run them.

What is the best Clan Kultur for this? I've seen some videos saying Bad Moonz, but I also see Speed Freaks are a subset of just about any Kultur.

I've also noticed when I try to make a list in Battlescribe anytime I add an HQ in addition to my Ork Warboss on warbike it says I can only have 1 speedboss....seems a bit weird. Is a Big Mek with a KFF still worthwhile?

Any advice on stratagems, kultur, useful relics, etc would be nice. I've also seen there is an "Army of Renown" for Speed Freaks but I don't really understand how that works either. I tried to build one and Battlescribe started throwing up errors all over the place.

If you don't choose a Kultur and an instead choose the Mob Specialist can you really not have more than one unit of Trukk Boyz Specialists?

Welcome to the WAAAGH! I'm not surprised at all that you're confused with regards to the changes that have been made since 6th ed. If you want a succint and clear rules summary for the core rules, do check out wahapedia, the layout and organization makes it a lot easier to digest the information.

In terms of your questions, if you're aiming for a bike heavy army, I really do suggest going for the Speed Mob Army of Renown option. Army of Renown effectively gives you a specific army archetype that gives you additional rules but comes with restrictions for the detachments you take in the army. So in the case of Speed Mob, you get the Adrenaline Junkies rule that gives you a 6+ invuln baseline for all Speed Freeks units, which turns into a 5+ invuln if you've advanced with them that turn. You also get the ability to advance and not count as having done so until the end of your shooting phase. You also get +1A on the charge. You'll also have access to specific Speed Mob only stratagems and WL traits/kustom jobs. The trade off is that you are only allowed to take units that have the Speed Freek, WAGON and Aircraft keywords in your army, so no footsloggers in your army. Furthermore, you lose the klan kultur abilities for the speed freek units in your army in return BUT you keep the klan keyword, which is very important since that means you can still use klan specific stratagems on them.

The best options for klanz when you run this are typically Evil Sunz, Freebootas or Blood Axes since they all have different strats and relics you can use even if you don't get the benefit of their klan kultur (planes aside). Since you already get a baseline invuln for Speed Mob, a Big Mek with KFF is completely redundant and also can't be taken in a Speed Mob army due to its restrictions. You're basically forced to only take Warboss on Warbike or a Deffkilla Wartrike as HQ's. (I highly suggest the Warboss on Warbike to be given the Killa Klaw relic and the WL trait Brutal but Kunnin to give your army some much needed CC punch).

Also, the way specialist mobs work is that you basically trade in a kultur for a single unit in each detachment to be one of the specialist mobz they detail in the list. Unfortunately, that means you are limited to a max of one trukk boyz unit per detachment you have.

If you're hesitant towards buggies, currently the best one to go for are megatrakk scrapjets, because of their versatility of having both good CC and shooting ability. Their main drawback is being the slowest (only 10" base movement), so you will want to be careful with positioning or consider even deepstriking them via the Tellyport stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Griever wrote:
If I put a Big Mek in a Battlewagon with a KFF does the aura still expand 6" out from the Battlewagon model?

Nope. Sadly that is gone. If you want KFF protection it must be with a model on the table with the KFF aura.

Thanks for the reply. This may be a battlescribe question...but when I select the Speed Mob Army of Renown it throws up errors that I need 2 HQ's....but you can't select any more than 1 HQ because that breaks the "you can only have 1 speedboss" rule but all the HQ's count as speedbosses.

It also throws up the "you need at least 3 troops error" but when I select Speed Mob Army of Renown you cannot select any troops at all accoring to the army builder.

Is this just the case of Battlescribe not correctly implementing the Speed Mob rules correctly? Or do I have to run multiple detachments just to complete an army? Which if I do I think I might just give up because my head is going to explode. If I do have to, do I just have to run a barebones detachment of a regular battalion to fulfil those HQ/Troops requirements in the same army?

Until I figure that out, I created an army I would like using the regular detachment rules for 2,000 points, any advice/tips would be appreciated: https://pastebin.com/eSN3DS1E

The Meganobz go in one Battlewagon with the Big Mek, The 19 strong boyz squad goes in the other with the Painboy. The other two go in the trukks.

Battlescribe is a bit of mess, especially with how often rules change now in 9th ed. As is right now you are not forced to take 2 HQ's unless you go for a battalion detachment, which is impossible if you are going for Speed Mob. If you are aiming for a Speed Mob Army of Renown, you're basically relegated to only taking Outrider detachments since you are unable to take any troops under the AoR restrictions. Keep in mind the first Outrider detachment you take will refund you the 3CP you spend for it under the Speed Mob detachment benefits. So if you wanted two Warbosses on Warbikes or a Deffkilla Wartrike to go with your Warboss on warbike, you would need to have 2 separate outrider detachments. keep in mind that the only mandatory requirements for each outrider detachment is 1 HQ and 3 fast attack slots. So you could fulfill those 3 fast attack slots with 3 units of warbikers.

 Grimskul wrote:

Griever wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Griever wrote:
Not looking to be super competitive, but coming back after 6th edition the army construction rules are a bit confusing to me...stratagems and command points especially.

I really want to field an army that features Bikers heavily, with a Warboss Warlord on Warbike. With the bulk of the troops being Trukk Boyz. Not really interested in any of the squig models/units even though they may be powerful.

Not a massive fan of all the new buggy models but could be convinced to run them.

What is the best Clan Kultur for this? I've seen some videos saying Bad Moonz, but I also see Speed Freaks are a subset of just about any Kultur.

I've also noticed when I try to make a list in Battlescribe anytime I add an HQ in addition to my Ork Warboss on warbike it says I can only have 1 speedboss....seems a bit weird. Is a Big Mek with a KFF still worthwhile?

Any advice on stratagems, kultur, useful relics, etc would be nice. I've also seen there is an "Army of Renown" for Speed Freaks but I don't really understand how that works either. I tried to build one and Battlescribe started throwing up errors all over the place.

If you don't choose a Kultur and an instead choose the Mob Specialist can you really not have more than one unit of Trukk Boyz Specialists?

Welcome to the WAAAGH! I'm not surprised at all that you're confused with regards to the changes that have been made since 6th ed. If you want a succint and clear rules summary for the core rules, do check out wahapedia, the layout and organization makes it a lot easier to digest the information.

In terms of your questions, if you're aiming for a bike heavy army, I really do suggest going for the Speed Mob Army of Renown option. Army of Renown effectively gives you a specific army archetype that gives you additional rules but comes with restrictions for the detachments you take in the army. So in the case of Speed Mob, you get the Adrenaline Junkies rule that gives you a 6+ invuln baseline for all Speed Freeks units, which turns into a 5+ invuln if you've advanced with them that turn. You also get the ability to advance and not count as having done so until the end of your shooting phase. You also get +1A on the charge. You'll also have access to specific Speed Mob only stratagems and WL traits/kustom jobs. The trade off is that you are only allowed to take units that have the Speed Freek, WAGON and Aircraft keywords in your army, so no footsloggers in your army. Furthermore, you lose the klan kultur abilities for the speed freek units in your army in return BUT you keep the klan keyword, which is very important since that means you can still use klan specific stratagems on them.

The best options for klanz when you run this are typically Evil Sunz, Freebootas or Blood Axes since they all have different strats and relics you can use even if you don't get the benefit of their klan kultur (planes aside). Since you already get a baseline invuln for Speed Mob, a Big Mek with KFF is completely redundant and also can't be taken in a Speed Mob army due to its restrictions. You're basically forced to only take Warboss on Warbike or a Deffkilla Wartrike as HQ's. (I highly suggest the Warboss on Warbike to be given the Killa Klaw relic and the WL trait Brutal but Kunnin to give your army some much needed CC punch).

Also, the way specialist mobs work is that you basically trade in a kultur for a single unit in each detachment to be one of the specialist mobz they detail in the list. Unfortunately, that means you are limited to a max of one trukk boyz unit per detachment you have.

If you're hesitant towards buggies, currently the best one to go for are megatrakk scrapjets, because of their versatility of having both good CC and shooting ability. Their main drawback is being the slowest (only 10" base movement), so you will want to be careful with positioning or consider even deepstriking them via the Tellyport stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Griever wrote:
If I put a Big Mek in a Battlewagon with a KFF does the aura still expand 6" out from the Battlewagon model?

Nope. Sadly that is gone. If you want KFF protection it must be with a model on the table with the KFF aura.

Thanks for the reply. This may be a battlescribe question...but when I select the Speed Mob Army of Renown it throws up errors that I need 2 HQ's....but you can't select any more than 1 HQ because that breaks the "you can only have 1 speedboss" rule but all the HQ's count as speedbosses.

It also throws up the "you need at least 3 troops error" but when I select Speed Mob Army of Renown you cannot select any troops at all accoring to the army builder.

Is this just the case of Battlescribe not correctly implementing the Speed Mob rules correctly? Or do I have to run multiple detachments just to complete an army? Which if I do I think I might just give up because my head is going to explode. If I do have to, do I just have to run a barebones detachment of a regular battalion to fulfil those HQ/Troops requirements in the same army?

Until I figure that out, I created an army I would like using the regular detachment rules for 2,000 points, any advice/tips would be appreciated: https://pastebin.com/eSN3DS1E

The Meganobz go in one Battlewagon with the Big Mek, The 19 strong boyz squad goes in the other with the Painboy. The other two go in the trukks.

Battlescribe is a bit of mess, especially with how often rules change now in 9th ed. As is right now you are not forced to take 2 HQ's unless you go for a battalion detachment, which is impossible if you are going for Speed Mob. If you are aiming for a Speed Mob Army of Renown, you're basically relegated to only taking Outrider detachments since you are unable to take any troops under the AoR restrictions. Keep in mind the first Outrider detachment you take will refund you the 3CP you spend for it under the Speed Mob detachment benefits. So if you wanted two Warbosses on Warbikes or a Deffkilla Wartrike to go with your Warboss on warbike, you would need to have 2 separate outrider detachments. keep in mind that the only mandatory requirements for each outrider detachment is 1 HQ and 3 fast attack slots. So you could fulfill those 3 fast attack slots with 3 units of warbikers.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you so much for your help. I'll tinker with the Outrider detachment and see if I like the Speed Mob version better.

SemperMortis wrote:

Yes Tom, but that isn't because those armies were bad, it was because Custodes, Harlies, Tau, Eldar and Crusher were just broken in every possible way so that those armies by default had no chance. I'll put it to you this way, I had MORE Eldar/Harly armies at the last GT I went to than Marines....that has never happened before to me.

As far as how this will impact us, goofy is kind of spot on here. Against Marines we kind of suck now. A unit of 3 deffkoptas just went from killing 2.2 Marines a Turn (not great, not bad) to killing 1.6 (Not good at all), in CC on a WAAAGH turn they just went from killing 3 Marines outright to killing 2. To put it another way, this "update" takes away about 1/3rd of our dmg output with AP weapons. And I dont' know about you guys, but my armies can't really afford those losses.

You are right - As I said, Armour of Compensation is really visible. As you write. In my proof game vs. Sisters I - and the opponent too honestly - was surprised how much different - tougher - the sisters are. From t-shirt saves with his “always in cover” and AoC it was cca 3+ all the time even with buggy higher ap weapons.

And I look at the problem just from Speedwaaagh buggy list perspective. The rest of the orks suffer even more because their standard ap around -1.

However what I would like to accent is to keep in mind, what makes armies good in 9th. It is not toughnes on the paper. It is the ability of the army to score.

That is what makes drukhari dangerous even after all this nerfes. So much cheap obsec or mobile or both units. They will die, but score like a hell.

And I 'm really courious if typical marines army can score better than well built and well operated ork list. Yes, the terminators will be nightmare to kill. But I struggle to kill them now. So I just outmaneuvre them. Do not kill them at all. Let them stink where they are and feed them with squad of stormboyz every turn. That could happened.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Last chance to buy:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sounds like Customs Stompa march to Legends.

No idea what to think about loosing Snikrot and Zagstruk!

Wow, I'm surprised they doing LCTB for the three specialist characters. I guess part of the reason is because they've never really been big sellers to begin with in terms of being a "meta-unit". That and they're finecast. Glad that I already picked up all three earlier in the past, as far as sculpts go, I always thought they were great.

If they do redo them in plastic in the future, I hope they do them justice, though knowing our luck, they'll be locked behind a dual faction battle box like Castellan Crowe was for 3 months first.