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2022/05/01 10:51:51
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
A little read if anyone wants to read it, but i went to a local tournament with 20 players where i ranked 8th. It was a single day tournament so only 3 battles. I had 2 wins and 1 loss. I lost my first battle to Salemanders, but i won against blood angels, and again against an odd Eldar list with lots of wraith constructs. He lost all his battles so i guess it wasnt a competitive list. But one thing that was apparent between the two battles i won, i didnt win by a lot. It was not a landslide victory at all in any of the cases. The winner was Tyranids (what a fething surprise).
Anyway i went with Goffs and i brought 2 blitza bommers against the armor of contempt lists i would inevitably play against (turns out 12 out of the lists were armor of contempt lists)
Blitza-bommer [8 PL, 150pts]: Big Shoota, 2x Boom Bomb, 2x Supa Shoota
++ Total: [110 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
Army play through below which ill try and keep short. Game 1, loss
Spoiler:
Salemanders. I cant remember what secondaries i picked but i know i picked "to the last" on my two blitzas and ghaz. I was almost wiped by turn 3 so i couldnt keep my things alive except for a single blitza. but i made a big blunder and had ghaz and my warboss on warbike basically trapped by accident near terrain. So that kind of sucked. He had no vehicles so my rockets were kind of ineffective while shooting at infantry in cover. My blitza bommers did a decent amount of mortal wounds but sadly some of them got ressurrected and others healed. So thats that. In the end, many of my attacks against these salemanders completely wiffed and did jack all damage. So it was a sort of disappointing battle where i made a big mistake, but even then my units did almost no damage.
Game 2, win
Spoiler:
Blood Angels. I decided to go for "to the last" again with my blitzas and ghaz being the survivors. He had turn 1, and i popped my KFF which helped protecting my blitzas so that only 1 plane died (next to stormboyz and other things). The other plane was left with 5 wounds. From there on i just flew over him, bombed him and flew out the stage and stayed off till turn 5 where i could safely return. A funny thing happened though, his librarian made a peril for 1 damage, and my plane flew over and did 3 mortal wounds to him, killing him afterwards. absolute gold moment.
Anyway, i went for a round 1 waaagh so ghaz absolutely went to town as he hadnt damaged ghaz by this time. He ran in to the first line of intercessors (i think they are called. their troop choice guys) and my warboss on bike killed a tank with a dozerblade in the front that shoots with str 10 i believe. my stormboyz and kommandos went in, tied up things and did reasonable damage this time around. Later ghaz ripped apart 6 Terminators out of 10 so there was only 1 left (kopta rokkits killed 1, kommandos 1, and bombs 1) and he ran away to morale. That turned the game around from being what looked a bit dicy to a game i could win because ghaz had free reign. Sadly i had few models left also so i kind of had to sit and tank some shots while holding objectives. My backline was held by 10 grots, by turn 5 i had a single grot left holding my objective. That guy definitely deserved to be promoted.
Game 3, win
Spoiler:
Eldar Wraith construct army with a wraith knight. I knew he had eldritch storm and i know it can be an absolute destroyer to my army, so i said zog it, ill deepstrike all my stormboyz and deffkoptas. I deployed ghaz extra aggressive up by the line, with the warboss on warbike close behind after. We played one of the stages where theres only 18 inches between us, so it could pay off to get a turn 1 charge.
I ended up getting turn 1, so my bomber planes flew over, bombed and out. Ghaz called a waaagh and i decided to go balls to the walls with almost no models on the board, but him, biker boss and 20 kommandos made it in. Both the warboss on bike and ghaz charged the wraith Knight and once again, did jack all damage. I did a total of 13 damage to him because he could auto save and i whiffed my attacks. So that was disheartening. My kommandos attacked one of the large wraith lords i think they are called but failed to kill it, and my other kommandos removed a good potion of the tiny constructs with axes. I think i killed 7 out of 10 or something so that was okay.
By his turn 1, both my warboss on bike and ghaz had died, but the rest of my army came in close after. So now he had to deal with my stormboyz and deffkoptas coming in and that turned things around again. Both blitza bommers came back turn 2, landed and didnt move. flew over turn 3 again and bombed, and stayed on the battlefield to shoot afterwards.
It was a chaotic battle but i werent eldritch stormed at least. And it was very underwhelming how little damage i did to the wraith knight, but thats what happens. especially when you can just auto pass 2 saves apparently. The eldar mortal wounds are pretty brutal however. Basically all his models were toughness 6 and up (barring the 2 characters and a unit of warlocks) so i whittled his army down with rokkits and a flurry of smaller attacks which eventually did work. This was a very fun match.
Over all the armor of contemt changes definitely be felt. They are very mean. I mean i have 2 victories but none of them were landslide victories, i won with maybe 20 point difference max. Scoring secondaries is difficult with my army and the lack of obsec also hurt during the last mission i played versus eldar. Because one could move away from the objective if you held it with an Obsec unit, and even grots not being Obsec anymore is also really stupid. I took fly boyz on both planes to add survivability, but ill change one of those to "orrible gitz" in the future for my grots.
I should have won a lot harder versus eldar but ghaz and boss on bike with BBK and killa klaw just.. whiffed. so his wraith knight ran around and caused havoc all game. I never got it killed as i focused on everything else.
The blitza bommers were both good and bad. It sucks that one can just ressurect models ive killed with my bombs from apothecaries, but they did do really well in terms of "to the last". A secondary ive otherwise never really played. Because i dont need to keep on the board to do my damage as i have bombs. So you just fly over and bomb round 1 and fly out, come back round 2 in your backline, fly over round 3 and bomb and fly out and stay out till turn 5 after which you land somewhere hopefully safe.
But i dont know if this is a good or a bad army. all in all about the blitza bommers i feel like what they brought to the table was attack magnets that forces the enemy to come close because they WANT to kill them. and with a 5++ from the KFF and -1 to hit it takes a decent amount of dakka to down them by turn 1 which they more or less have to do. The firepower drawn to those is also firepower not drawn to my kommandos and stormboyz. Ill have to play some more with them. But i did end up with an 8th out of 20 so ill take it. Worth nothing of course if you KNOW the blitzas will die to enemy fire by turn 1, dont go for "to the last" lol
In the end, orks feel like they have really been hit. Maybe mega nobz really is what we need. I couldnt throw down several kill rigs and stormboyz and kommandos is what i have a decent amount of. I only have 8 mega nobz sadly.
I think that speed waaaghs still work, i just havent painted my speedwaaagh yet. But Ghaz feels even more important than the beastboss on squig now due to his high AP and damage. I really like ghaz these days with all the changes. He still feels overpriced though.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/01 10:59:27
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/05/01 12:22:25
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
some bloke wrote: Hey everyone, I'd like some ideas and opinions on a bad moons speedwaaagh!
seems like bad moons and the speedwaaagh marry up well, focussing on the buggies which have dakka weapons for extra range and extra AP on a 6 (plus extra AP on a speedwaaagh), thinking the boomdakka snazzwagon looks good, or the Kustom Boosta Blasta for the extra strength on the gun. I'd also considered the rukatrukk squigbuggy, but that only gains the AP benefits and not the range.
I have loads of bikes (looking forward to using 9 bikes on a speedwaaagh in dakka range for 108 shots at S5 AP-1!), I need to rebuild my wartrike as it was originally made as a warboss on a bike, and I'm thinking a dakkajet and wazbomm blastajet will be a good bit of support for the army. Deffkoptas can snag objectives (though they aren't single models any more), and perhaps some nobs on smasha squigs for the same purpose, and Mek guns i nthe background.
Am I right that grots seem to benefit from clan rules now, or did I miss something? All I can see is that ">Clan< units get these benefits". I also noted that flash gitz get the clan now, so does that mean bad moon flashgitz are a viable option, or again have I missed something?
Grots don't benefit from klans. It specifically says gretchin units do not in the klan rules.
Units you want for pretty much any speedwaaaagh builds are 2 wazboms (seriously don't bother with the other planes), scrapjets, deffkoptas, and then whatever other buggies you want.
With regards to innovating or adapting orks...I just don't see what is left to pivot to. The army has been carried by datasheets since release, never because of its stratagems or command phase buffs etc. I've been trying a skew list since the balance update bringing 80+ snagga boyz but I just don't think hordes work in 9th as:
1. The army is brutally slow 2. The army has very low damage output 3. The army have very poor survivability and is vulnerable to morale 4. There are few synergies for hordes to take advantage of (strats, command phase buffs)
In short I don't think the DS run around and passively score points playstyle will work, not against good players and good lists anyways. The damage in the game has gotten so high that you can't afford to not also do a high amount of damage. Every turn you're not killing what your opponent presents to you, you are losing that much faster.
I think our best lists remain what they have been: Goff melee orks or speed mob, but they have both gotten undeniably worse post dataslate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/01 12:40:40
2022/05/01 14:56:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
some bloke wrote: Had my first game with the "new" ork codex (I don't get to game as much these days...). Orks won, but sadly that was because my opponent used Orks!
I ran an old fashioned army, which was probably the issue. Bad moons shoota boys with rokkits & kombi rokkits in 2 battlewagons and a truk, lootas in a trukk with a SAG, and a wazbom blastajet.
Next time I'm going to run a speedwaaagh!, because bad moons seems to combine with the speedwaaagh and the vehicle/biker units very well - better heavy & dakka weapons, and better AP when firing them, and then more better AP when firing them from the speedwaagh, plus more shots. I'm trying to pick out some buggies to build, what works well? I used to play deffskulls but I feel like a change this edition, and bad moons piqued my interest for their shooting prowess.
Also, how do trukkboys work? I noticed that Trukks can transport >clan< infantry, and so would be bad moons, and trukkboys replace their >clan< with >trukkboys<, so it looks, unless I've missed something, like trukkboys can't actually ride in their trukk?
if you meant better AP for embarked infantry then no they dont get the extra AP.
I think that was the concensus at least.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/05/01 14:58:05
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: There is a reason AoW and goonhammer say orks are bottom b or c tier and one of the worst 9th Ed codex. But to be fair they also
recommended our food units be nerfed into the ground.
Regarding specialist mobs they don’t work as designed there is literally no benefit to taking 90% of them and the only place it’s taken competitively now is in the speed mob because it doesn’t loose the ability. I rather just see specialist mob abilities be baked into each detachment.
Keep in mind the caveat of their tier list is "The best player possible playing the best possible list."
So your mileage might vary greatly at the mid or bottom tables. But I think at the top of competitive play, the reasons AoW rank Orks so low is just obvious to Ork players -- weak strats, middling to weak psychic tree, mediocre durability, poor secondaries, lack of killing power.
In beerhammer the book is probably fine? Although to be honest it's painfully boring. There isn't much to the book other than "Spam X unit", because we lack synergy.
The crying shame about it is the Ork kits are really great. Army is a hobbyist's dream, but it doesn't seem to live up to the hype on the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/01 15:00:43
2022/05/01 15:03:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: To put it bluntly, we are not capable of going toe to toe with the meta lists and will have to resort to playing exclusively to Victory points and hoping we can outscore our opponents before we are tabled.
Couldn´t agree more. Hence that´s the current space to explore. How do we raise our scoring options if we cannot beat them down? That´s why I found a strategy going multiple 97 interesting.
2022/05/02 10:54:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: There is a reason AoW and goonhammer say orks are bottom b or c tier and one of the worst 9th Ed codex. But to be fair they also
recommended our food units be nerfed into the ground.
Regarding specialist mobs they don’t work as designed there is literally no benefit to taking 90% of them and the only place it’s taken competitively now is in the speed mob because it doesn’t loose the ability. I rather just see specialist mob abilities be baked into each detachment.
Keep in mind the caveat of their tier list is "The best player possible playing the best possible list."
So your mileage might vary greatly at the mid or bottom tables. But I think at the top of competitive play, the reasons AoW rank Orks so low is just obvious to Ork players -- weak strats, middling to weak psychic tree, mediocre durability, poor secondaries, lack of killing power.
In beerhammer the book is probably fine? Although to be honest it's painfully boring. There isn't much to the book other than "Spam X unit", because we lack synergy.
The crying shame about it is the Ork kits are really great. Army is a hobbyist's dream, but it doesn't seem to live up to the hype on the table.
Not quite best player in each faction but good competitive players playing competitive lists. Siegler even said if he ranked admech based on how well he played it they would be near top of B. It’s about the best list potential not overall codex quality or garage hammer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/02 10:54:59
2022/05/02 15:26:15
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
tulun wrote: 36% win rate for Orks this weekend! The tank is in folks. Let's do this!
Even those weedy 'umies had higher with 41% :( (Imperial Guard)
I was just on my way to post this. Big oof on our part. We really need something to dig us out of this hole. Without a big change getting us some of our mojo back, we're hoping for a sudden and dramatic meta shift that lets us double down on skewing.
Could you imagine if GW gave us extra AP in melee on the charge during a Waaagh?
2022/05/02 19:00:26
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Huh. Other codecs have the “no names characters” restriction, but Orks do not.
Okay.
To be fair, most Ork characters are not worth taking compared to generic choices that you can tailor towards certain WL traits, and you wouldn't usually bother wasting Big Boss on them since they're tied to suboptimal WL traits.
2022/05/03 06:26:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
John Forsyth on FB did a deep dig in what kind of the list has what results from this week comp meta.
The sheet below is the result. And my question is - is the over-all low win rate the cause or the result of very low share of Speed Mob armies there?
Could be interpreted also the way, the competitive players with tons of buggies switched to Tyranids or something. And the rest are the pure fans with infantry they already had before buggy meta…
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/03 15:54:42
And Marschal Petersson write a report about his mighty Blood Axe victories. Because as I understand. That is not the first one:
For our fellow warbosses taking to tournament tables, I just finished 3rd at a six round tournament GT, so here is a bit on how things went!
Round one: Aeldari (wraith heavy) W
Two: nurgle (morty, great unclean one, be’lakor with daemon engines and demon troops) W
Three: Tyranids (kraken, he ended up winning the event undefeated) L
Four: Aeldari (shuriken based, tons of bodies and ranged death) W
Five: Tyranids (lots of warriors, and meta stuff you may expect) W
Six: Custodes (vehicle heavy emperors chosen) W
Most importantly the tournament scene continues to impress me with how enjoyable it is and how great all of my opponents were. It was super fun and I greatly enjoyed the time with everyone. (Even While watching my Orks being eaten by Matt Evans Tyranids lol)
The idea of the army was flexibility with a lean towards mortal wounds. With the exception of troops choices and snikrot every single model handed out mortal wounds. Here are thoughts:
With blood axes Orks actually work. Our over costed strats are more palatable when you have 19 command points over the course of the battle to use. They give great strats to boost combat ability, perform actions, interrupt combat for free, and make the army much more strategic. Not to mention snikrot basically gives you a second warboss in the detatchment.
I am convinced squig bombs are the best aspect of the entire ork codex. When taken en mass you are able to efficiently assassinate any character or big threat. Don’t like that apothecary? Bomb him. Two wound warlock giving you headaches? Squigs don’t care about look out sir. Added in with the splash mortals from squiggly curse, frazzle, “burn em all”, and burna bombs, any character with less than 10 wounds is easily killed.
Kommandos are spectacular and are the backbone of an ork army that boys wished they were. They do everything great, and 12 points per model is still a deal since they don’t need a transport to operate.
Tankbustas. By far the most underrated unit in the codex. For just 95 points you get 4D3+D6 mortal wounds of output. (2D3+6) if they don’t charge a vehicle. The rokkits are just for decoration but are funny if they ever hit. Especially in the current meta these guys wreak face.
Burna bomber: cheap mortals and a nuisance unit, it’s good but I think I’ll swap it out going forward. Needs just a bit more of a push to make its points back.
Battlewagon: they are neat, keep ‘em cheap with a deff rolla and watch your Orks not be shot directly for a turn.
I’d love to hear your thoughts, happy krumping!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/03 06:58:38
Tomsug wrote: And Marschal Petersson write a report about his mighty Blood Axe victories. Because as I understand. That is not the first one: For our fellow warbosses taking to tournament tables, I just finished 3rd at a six round tournament GT, so here is a bit on how things went! Round one: Aeldari (wraith heavy) W Two: nurgle (morty, great unclean one, be’lakor with daemon engines and demon troops) W Three: Tyranids (kraken, he ended up winning the event undefeated) L Four: Aeldari (shuriken based, tons of bodies and ranged death) W Five: Tyranids (lots of warriors, and meta stuff you may expect) W Six: Custodes (vehicle heavy emperors chosen) W
Most importantly the tournament scene continues to impress me with how enjoyable it is and how great all of my opponents were. It was super fun and I greatly enjoyed the time with everyone. (Even While watching my Orks being eaten by Matt Evans Tyranids lol)
The idea of the army was flexibility with a lean towards mortal wounds. With the exception of troops choices and snikrot every single model handed out mortal wounds. Here are thoughts:
With blood axes Orks actually work. Our over costed strats are more palatable when you have 19 command points over the course of the battle to use. They give great strats to boost combat ability, perform actions, interrupt combat for free, and make the army much more strategic. Not to mention snikrot basically gives you a second warboss in the detatchment.
I am convinced squig bombs are the best aspect of the entire ork codex. When taken en mass you are able to efficiently assassinate any character or big threat. Don’t like that apothecary? Bomb him. Two wound warlock giving you headaches? Squigs don’t care about look out sir. Added in with the splash mortals from squiggly curse, frazzle, “burn em all”, and burna bombs, any character with less than 10 wounds is easily killed.
Kommandos are spectacular and are the backbone of an ork army that boys wished they were. They do everything great, and 12 points per model is still a deal since they don’t need a transport to operate.
Tankbustas. By far the most underrated unit in the codex. For just 95 points you get 4D3+D6 mortal wounds of output. (2D3+6) if they don’t charge a vehicle. The rokkits are just for decoration but are funny if they ever hit. Especially in the current meta these guys wreak face.
Burna bomber: cheap mortals and a nuisance unit, it’s good but I think I’ll swap it out going forward. Needs just a bit more of a push to make its points back.
Battlewagon: they are neat, keep ‘em cheap with a deff rolla and watch your Orks not be shot directly for a turn.
I’d love to hear your thoughts, happy krumping!
Interesting list. Reminds me of my own list where i ran 2 blitza bommers. While mine was a Goff list with ghaz, i definitely figured blitza bommers would make a semi comeback with the current meta and changes. I had 2 wons and 1 loss out of my local tournament with 3 battles total.
Mortal wounds really is king now. Maybe I should look at a blood axes army myself.
Although he can never use the stratagem to allow kommandos to fight before the enemy with most WTC terrain. It states you have to be wholly within the terrain piece, and most WTC terrain is made up by thin walls with usually no floor level. So your kommandos would in many GT cases, never be able to use this stratagem, as your base would merely touch the wall, not be wholly within.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/03 07:48:20
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/05/03 07:54:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
"For just 95 points you get 4D3+D6 mortal wounds of output. (2D3+6) if they don’t charge a vehicle"
Is this a typo? bustas get 2 squigs each getting D3D +1D6 for the tank hammer. Where is the other 2D3 coming from? Just wondering if Im missing something
Also are you able to big boss more than once?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/03 08:03:49
2022/05/03 07:55:08
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
To live to see the day that someone wins with bombsquig spam
So this means bomb squigs will go up to 15 points with the next "balance" patch?
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2022/05/03 08:07:36
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Dr.Duck wrote: "For just 95 points you get 4D3+D6 mortal wounds of output. (2D3+6) if they don’t charge a vehicle"
Is this a typo? bustas get 2 squigs each getting D3D +1D6 for the tank hammer. Where is the other 2D3 coming from? Just wondering if Im missing something
Also are you able to big boss more than once?
I think he might be refering to the tankbusta bomb strat? thats 2D3 MW to a vehicle.
But that stratagem, contrary to what many might think, isnt native to only tankbustas despite called "Tankbusta bomb". Boyz and Kommandos can also do this as they share the keyword.
Also yes you can "Big Boss" Twice, as well as you can pay for 2 relics.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: To live to see the day that someone wins with bombsquig spam
So this means bomb squigs will go up to 15 points with the next "balance" patch?
Im expecting many nerfs yes. We cant have orks get within top 5! im expecting point increases to everything we have that can cause mortal wounds. be it blitza bommers or wurrboyz. GW needs to deal with this green menace!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/05/03 08:17:33
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/05/03 08:27:31
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: To live to see the day that someone wins with bombsquig spam
So this means bomb squigs will go up to 15 points with the next "balance" patch?
They'll be restricted to max one per army in the next balance dataslate
One per time zone, anyone that submits a list with bomb Squigs is hunted down by GW's Arbites and charged with heresy
:EDIT:
Tinkering with my list again for the umpteenth time, trying to make Speedwaaagh work for the last time before I cave and run Ghaz/Snagga Goffs.
Any thoughts on what I should do with my last 80 points? I'm erring toward a five man unit of Kommandos, Burna Boys or Tankbustas (if I can find five points somewhere) to sit in the Kannonwagon in my DZ and/or do actions, or a KBB .
I can see marine players pulling a hissy fit given that it bypasses their AoC buff, so I wouldn't be surprised if they jacked the prices if that catches on.
2022/05/04 06:42:50
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
There used to be a calculation somewhere “how many MW per point” deal the orks units. And far best was the burnas but I don' t see why and I don' t remember what was the trick and I can' t find the article.
During a Waaagh! 10 goff burnas with zzapkrumpas popping the goff stratagem can theoretically deal an average of 5 mortal wounds for 130 points, which is 26 points per mortal wound. A nob on smasha squig pays the same per MW without any support.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
