Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics

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**Afrodactyl**

Tomsug wrote:
There used to be a calculation somewhere “how many MW per point” deal the orks units. And far best was the burnas but I don' t see why and I don' t remember what was the trick and I can' t find the article.

Anyone remeber? Or is it just a fake memory?

You might be talking about this Reddit post.

Spoiler:

**Tomsug**

Afrodactyl wrote:
Tomsug wrote:
There used to be a calculation somewhere “how many MW per point” deal the orks units. And far best was the burnas but I don' t see why and I don' t remember what was the trick and I can' t find the article.

Anyone remeber? Or is it just a fake memory?

You might be talking about this Reddit post.

Spoiler:

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/sulj37/updated_mortal_wound_analysis_for_ork_units_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Yess that' s it! Thanks!

**Grimskul**

Looks like we're getting points for free from now on, which is a good and a bad thing, because it means 15 point bomb squigs could be just around the corner!

**tulun**

Half CP to start the game, but we get 2 CP a turn.

Seems a bit rough as Orks wanna pregame spend 6-8 :(

**Grimskul**

tulun wrote:
Half CP to start the game, but we get 2 CP a turn.

Seems a bit rough as Orks wanna pregame spend 6-8 :(

Yeah, it's definitely going to restrict our pre-grame strats and the number of detachments which isn't ideal for us. I think what is going to make/break us is what the new secondaries they are releasing looks like, because as it is right now, our bespoke ones are meh at best and we don't have many that suit our army very well.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim**

Grimskul wrote:
Looks like we're getting points for free from now on, which is a good and a bad thing, because it means 15 point bomb squigs could be just around the corner!

Warcom is blocked for me rn, how many free points are we getting?

**Afrodactyl**

tulun wrote:
Half CP to start the game, but we get 2 CP a turn.

Seems a bit rough as Orks wanna pregame spend 6-8 :(

Probably the death of everything but Blood Axes for us.

**Scactha**

Tested the mortal wound strategy by adding 2 x Tankbustas and Kommandos tonight in a game vs Nids and must say it was quite fresh to have that tool in the box. I actually blew up the Swarmlord with Squigs

I guess GW is noticing that CP and Strats aren´t working that well. Auspex Tactics did a good review of the problem and various solutions concluding that there´s no real good way. Personally I do like the concept but as would say it´s bloated out of proportion.

**Grimskul**

Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Looks like we're getting points for free from now on, which is a good and a bad thing, because it means 15 point bomb squigs could be just around the corner!

Warcom is blocked for me rn, how many free points are we getting?

Sorry, I mean free points in terms of points updates not being locked behind the books anymore. They said that they're going to be making it available on the WHC website and the app. Which makes sense given how untenable their supply chain issue with releases are and how some codices were outdated upon release.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scactha wrote:
Tested the mortal wound strategy by adding 2 x Tankbustas and Kommandos tonight in a game vs Nids and must say it was quite fresh to have that tool in the box. I actually blew up the Swarmlord with Squigs

I guess GW is noticing that CP and Strats aren´t working that well. Auspex Tactics did a good review of the problem and various solutions concluding that there´s no real good way. Personally I do like the concept but as would say it´s bloated out of proportion.

I mean given how they said some supplements/books were slated to be outdated for matched play around Jan 2023, I think that demonstrates that some form of edition revamp is underway, 10th ed or 9.5, I could see them consolidating them like they did in AoS where you only have a certain number of universal ones that you can use to prevent the sheer amount of bookkeeping that is common in games nowadays.

**Jidmah**

Scactha wrote:
Tested the mortal wound strategy by adding 2 x Tankbustas and Kommandos tonight in a game vs Nids and must say it was quite fresh to have that tool in the box. I actually blew up the Swarmlord with Squigs

I guess GW is noticing that CP and Strats aren´t working that well. Auspex Tactics did a good review of the problem and various solutions concluding that there´s no real good way. Personally I do like the concept but as would say it´s bloated out of proportion.

Care to link the video?

**gungo**

Half cp to start will kill the triple detachment lists

Orks spend all our cp pregame (except speedmob) because our Strats in general are overpriced or awful…
Dual detachment lists with a second relic warlord trait warlord is going to be rough on cp..
But the vast majority of ork lists are single detachments now and it’s not a huge reason to take bloodaxes for it.

I got to see what the breakdown is because 1/2 starting cp tend to benefit smaller detachments and hurt battalions/brigades.

**Grimskul**

gungo wrote:
Half cp to start will kill the triple detachment lists

Orks spend all our cp pregame (except speedmob) because our Strats in general are overpriced or awful…
Dual detachment lists with a second relic warlord trait warlord is going to be rough on cp..
But the vast majority of ork lists are single detachments now and it’s not a huge reason to take bloodaxes for it.

I got to see what the breakdown is because 1/2 starting cp tend to benefit smaller detachments and hurt battalions/brigades.

Yeah, with that change I feel like we need a fundamental rewrite for our codex at that point given how we're a datasheet army with meh strats at best.

**Beardedragon**

Nachmund already coming to an end? i Have barely had any games with the Nachmund rules.

There needs to be serious changes to the detatchment CP sink if we are to start with half. Most ork armies have 2 detatchments to allow for 2 warbosses. But in general, i dont hope they just feth up the ork army even further. I hope with nihilus or what ever its called the new zone, that they make changes that still incorporates all the factions so that they work. So one faction isnt just shafted because they didnt bother making it work.

And for us, we tend to get hit hard by it. As an ork player, because of that, i tend to fear when GW makes changes. Despite the fact we're a mid tier faction if not a tad below that, we're still not receiving any helping hands.

I really fear these new changes, but i also find them intriguing as it does freshen up the game and changes things. Hopefully it will be good for us rather than a turd served on a plate.

**Ilgoth**

Jidmah wrote:
Scactha wrote:
Tested the mortal wound strategy by adding 2 x Tankbustas and Kommandos tonight in a game vs Nids and must say it was quite fresh to have that tool in the box. I actually blew up the Swarmlord with Squigs

I guess GW is noticing that CP and Strats aren´t working that well. Auspex Tactics did a good review of the problem and various solutions concluding that there´s no real good way. Personally I do like the concept but as would say it´s bloated out of proportion.

Care to link the video?

I am no original commenter, but here.

Spoiler:

**Scactha**

I would like a general rewrite that simply pulls back the rules bloat and lethality in all aspects. GW is really shooting itself in the foot by both incentivizing picking fewer sturdy units, making the game visually less attractive and raising the entry point complexity wise. I can´t see how anyone in Sales would think this is a good idea. They should make a game that rewards players using each factions common dudes and them being simple to use.

The rolling and shifting army bonuses that creates the mental overhead are annoying. From Necrons to Nids it´s not doing much to create an interest. Strats are the same as mentioned before. A subset of the are used and the rest mostly forgotten. Simplify.

**Forceride**

Currently taking thraka with supreme commander detachment for cp refund on patrol. Can't make builds other wise with the cut. Also 50pts greechin tax

**Beardedragon**

I never start a fight WITHOUT my 10 grots. I use them to hold the backline objective while everything else surges forward.

They suck, but they still get the job done.

**Scactha**

Grotz are awesome for holding the back objective, retrieving data, screening out the deploy zone and ticking Green Tide points. Can´t leave home without them

The issue is at the other end. Our offensive capability.

**Forceride**

Ahahah yeah, but that is the only thing they are good at. I give them horrible gits for obsec too.

**Blackie**

I put 10 of them in a BW to join 5 meganobz. This way no meganobz die if their transport is wrecked and the little gitz can find some use later if they get deployed, on their own or in conjunction with the big guys. No obj sec though, they can't embark otherwise.

**Grimskul**

Scactha wrote:
Grotz are awesome for holding the back objective, retrieving data, screening out the deploy zone and ticking Green Tide points. Can´t leave home without them

The issue is at the other end. Our offensive capability.

I dunno, for the points I pay for them I'd rather they have more defense or utility. T3 is a terrible trade off for additional negative morale rules, a 7+ save in the open and being almost double the cost of what they were before while also losing baseline obsec. They should honestly stop with the whole "grots are too weedy for kulturs" mentality and let them benefit from Kulturs, keep obsec and remove the negative combat attrition rule and either build in grot shields as a rule for them OR give them a -1 to hit when an enemy is more than 12" from them.

**Tomsug**

Attack out of da Sun strategems and all related tricks adressed by Goonhammer Q&A

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-qa-may-6th-2022/

Shortly - it is legal but some TO ban it via houserule. My comment - as I see Australia seems to be very strict, US seems to be pretty open and in EU every area has it' s own opinion….

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had an interesting discussion about Attakc out of da Sun issue with Andrew Sherman. Andrew is Australia guy and you can remember his name from my Competitive Innovations, one of the lists was his and I commented this list “watch, this guy wins and plays strictly, what droped cannot fly away in the same turn”

Andrew play it this way until these days. Mostly because in AUS most of the organizers houserule AOOTS this way and because he thinks, it' s right.

However…

- He has constant 75% win rate after long set of tournaments.
- HE PLAYS NOBZ ON WARBIKES!

His pre-dataslate list here:

Spoiler:

**Scactha**

Tomsug wrote:
I had an interesting discussion about Attakc out of da Sun issue with Andrew Sherman. Andrew is Australia guy and you can remember his name from my Competitive Innovations, one of the lists was his and I commented this list “watch, this guy wins and plays strictly, what droped cannot fly away in the same turn”

Andrew play it this way until these days. Mostly because in AUS most of the organizers houserule AOOTS this way and because he thinks, it' s right.

However…

- He has constant 75% win rate after long set of tournaments.
- HE PLAYS NOBZ ON WARBIKES!

Awaiting the inevitable "It´s not Goff pressure hence bad. He´s only playing in a soft environment etc." responses in 3, 2 1...

Very interesting find Tomsug! I´d love to find some commentary on his list and strategy. What secondaries does he use, deploy and game plan?

**TedNugent**

Isn't nobs on warbikes a factor of the limit of 3 of each unit? I find it hard to believe he wouldn't be using more warbiker units otherwise, since he already has 3 and the nob units just have choppas.

**CaptainO**

I was the one who emailed into goonhammer about the orks attack out of the sun. https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-qa-may-6th-2022/ There's an agreement that RAW allow for some squirely shiz. I know some people on here don't rate goonhammer but the consensus is to confirm with tournament organisers.

I know some tournament organisers don't like to change rules but anything that reminds GW we exist and need a little TLC is good

**Tomsug**

CaptainO wrote:
I was the one who emailed into goonhammer about the orks attack out of the sun. https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-qa-may-6th-2022/ There's an agreement that RAW allow for some squirely shiz. I know some people on here don't rate goonhammer but the consensus is to confirm with tournament organisers.

I know some tournament organisers don't like to change rules but anything that reminds GW we exist and need a little TLC is good

Well done! Thanks!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scactha wrote:
Tomsug wrote:
I had an interesting discussion about Attakc out of da Sun issue with Andrew Sherman. Andrew is Australia guy and you can remember his name from my Competitive Innovations, one of the lists was his and I commented this list “watch, this guy wins and plays strictly, what droped cannot fly away in the same turn”

Andrew play it this way until these days. Mostly because in AUS most of the organizers houserule AOOTS this way and because he thinks, it' s right.

However…

- He has constant 75% win rate after long set of tournaments.
- HE PLAYS NOBZ ON WARBIKES!
Awaiting the inevitable "It´s not Goff pressure hence bad. He´s only playing in a soft environment etc." responses in 3, 2 1...

Very interesting find Tomsug! I´d love to find some commentary on his list and strategy. What secondaries does he use, deploy and game plan?

I try to find it! Good idea!

**CaptainO**

The Ozzies list is very interesting. He has plenty of units for engage and 3 units to push forward for RnD.

He could shuffle one of the two large deffkoptas so he could make them both boomboyz although it means they can't use drive by dakka

Interesting that he's forgone any planes

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the rukkatrukk squad is dead

**Afrodactyl**

CaptainO wrote:
The Ozzies list is very interesting. He has plenty of units for engage and 3 units to push forward for RnD.

He could shuffle one of the two large deffkoptas so he could make them both boomboyz although it means they can't use drive by dakka

Interesting that he's forgone any planes

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the rukkatrukk squad is dead

It's definitely a list that has doubled down on playing for points rather than for damage.

I'd imagine that post-dataslate the list would likely drop the Rukkatrukks and a handful of koptas to squeeze some Wazboms in, or going for Scrapjets and a handful of weapon upgrades.

But yeah, the Squigbuggy is probably dead. A single nitro Squigs one just doesn't do enough damage, and three also doesn't do enough damage and is a silly amount of points to sink. I dropped it from my list for more koptas.

**some bloke**

Had a second and third match with the orks this week, both games with the same lists as we both made mistakes and I conceded on turn 2 as my army was, frankly, gone.

ayng Bloodaxes and in the second game (let's not mention the first...) I think I did well enough, but there were a few things I am considering.

1: Against a fast CC army, I almost want to go second, and hang back. I went first both times, and both times I found myself unable to capitalise on Da Jump because there was nowhere in the enemy backfield that I could go. I think I might judge the opponent next time and if they look like they're moving forward then I can go second to let them.

2: Moving boys off the board and into strategic reserves is a cool way to bait the enemy. If yo uhave 2 units of boys and a weirdboy, you can jump one and strategic-reserve the other right off one corner of the board.

3: Wazbomm Blastajet is not good. I thought it would be, but now I'm on 3 games where it has underperformed, so it's getting cut.

4: When fighting Orks, you need to be offensive. Snagga boys will wreck you in a charge, but you can wreck them first with a good charge. Need to get some minimal kommandos or meganobs units to make use of the "Got 'm Trapped" stratagem to really hit 'em hard!

Next game I will be trying to work out a good repacement for the Wazbomm - possibly some shooty dreads to hold objectives and stomp around. I think 4KMB is going to be about on-par with a wazbomm, but it can also hold objectives and be cheaper!

**Mangoblin**

some bloke wrote:
3: Wazbomm Blastajet is not good. I thought it would be, but now I'm on 3 games where it has underperformed, so it's getting cut.

I agree. A lot of people online like to talk up the wazbomm, but with a 4+ bs, random shots and random damage on all its best weapons I find it very inconsistent. If you're looking to replace some of that firepower I might recommend some mek gunz; they're also pretty inconsistent, but at least are a hell of a lot cheaper.