Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics

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**Beardedragon**

I think i might not be too bad off with my Blood axes Speed mob maybe now that i think about it.

2 outriders, 1 is free. Relic and warlord trait for my .. well warlord thats 5CP total.

Since i intended to play blood axes i would use the finkin' cap for extra CP generation per round, and i would use the warlord trait to reduce a stratagems cost by 1, each round as well.

Maybe losing 5 CP to begin with but having those traits/relics makes it okay in the end. Though i would have to give up Speed King warlord trait.

**Tomsug**

Speed king definitely do not worth the 1 cp in this situation

**IronSlug**

Not a new player but I might as well be since I have played 9th this week-end for the first time. I deliberately went with a very weak old school list and lost a lot. (Well you were supposed to come with a weak list, but you know how this kind of things go...)

Anyway, my question is how do you hold on objectives? I mean, taking them is a thing, but holding them till next turn seems really hard with orks.

In a more general way, out of curiosity, what's the current way to play the green lads? Multiple MSU? (Kommandos, stormz...)

**gungo**

Well that’s the rub… most warlord traits and relics are going to never be taken at best you are going to see every codex default to the 1 best relics/warlord traits.. there might be a situational issue like bloodaxe where a specific faction has a better relic/warlord trait but for orks you are going to see everyone using BBK as the default unless they want the blood skull version. But the cool Addons people use to take like faster then yoos in speed mob or ard as nails on beastboss on squig or speedking there is absolutely no reason to take.

**Afrodactyl**

IronSlug wrote:
Not a new player but I might as well be since I have played 9th this week-end for the first time. I deliberately went with a very weak old school list and lost a lot. (Well you were supposed to come with a weak list, but you know how this kind of things go...)

Anyway, my question is how do you hold on objectives? I mean, taking them is a thing, but holding them till next turn seems really hard with orks.

In a more general way, out of curiosity, what's the current way to play the green lads? Multiple MSU? (Kommandos, stormz...)

Realistically we're holding objectives with tougher units like our characters, buggies and MANz, or we're relying on killing everything around the objective so nothing of the opponent's can hold it or contest it.

**Beardedragon**

Question:
If you dont keep squig buggies at the backline but drive them around as an actual combat buggy that needs line of sight to avoid the negative nerf from shooting without line of sight, are they better or worse, than snazzwagons?

The squig buggies still hit on 4s then, with some shots at least, and do have a CC attack.

**Grimskul**

Beardedragon wrote:
Question:
If you dont keep squig buggies at the backline but drive them around as an actual combat buggy that needs line of sight to avoid the negative nerf from shooting without line of sight, are they better or worse, than snazzwagons?

The squig buggies still hit on 4s then, with some shots at least, and do have a CC attack.

I think the problem is that at the current cost (which was priced for how they had the premium ability of shooting out of LoS, which is now super nerfed) I can't see them being cost efficient to take and taking Nitro Squigs further inflates that cost.

**Jidmah**

Beardedragon wrote:
Question:
If you dont keep squig buggies at the backline but drive them around as an actual combat buggy that needs line of sight to avoid the negative nerf from shooting without line of sight, are they better or worse, than snazzwagons?

The squig buggies still hit on 4s then, with some shots at least, and do have a CC attack.

Worse. The saws are nice to have, but the snazzwagon has -1 to hit and can fire everything but burna bottles while locked in combat.

If you are looking for a buggy to drive about, take pot shots at things and ram saws into weak units, the SJD is better.

With the squig buggy you are paying a lot of points for the ability to snipe MEQ without LoS that no longer exists. Not worth it IMO.

**gungo**

Squigbuggies are the worst buggy again… but it might get a 5pt reduction and still be the worst this new chapter approved.

**Grimskul**

gungo wrote:
Squigbuggies are the worst buggy again… but it might get a 5pt reduction and still be the worst this new chapter approved.

Yup, welcome to GW pendulum of rules. Top of the pack one month, garbage in the next.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Question:
If you dont keep squig buggies at the backline but drive them around as an actual combat buggy that needs line of sight to avoid the negative nerf from shooting without line of sight, are they better or worse, than snazzwagons?

The squig buggies still hit on 4s then, with some shots at least, and do have a CC attack.

Worse. The saws are nice to have, but the snazzwagon has -1 to hit and can fire everything but burna bottles while locked in combat.

If you are looking for a buggy to drive about, take pot shots at things and ram saws into weak units, the SJD is better.

With the squig buggy you are paying a lot of points for the ability to snipe MEQ without LoS that no longer exists. Not worth it IMO.

That was my fear but i hadnt really done the math if the snazzwagon was actually surperior if you used the squig buggy as a combat buggy

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Question:
If you dont keep squig buggies at the backline but drive them around as an actual combat buggy that needs line of sight to avoid the negative nerf from shooting without line of sight, are they better or worse, than snazzwagons?

The squig buggies still hit on 4s then, with some shots at least, and do have a CC attack.

Worse. The saws are nice to have, but the snazzwagon has -1 to hit and can fire everything but burna bottles while locked in combat.

If you are looking for a buggy to drive about, take pot shots at things and ram saws into weak units, the SJD is better.

With the squig buggy you are paying a lot of points for the ability to snipe MEQ without LoS that no longer exists. Not worth it IMO.

Right, but in CC you hit on 6s, so nothing incredible. On the other hand, squigb have saws AND a squig mine. The potential 1d3 mortal wounds are always welcomed.

I agree on the cost though given current indirect fire rule. At 90, as it was, would be a good contender.

**Jidmah**

Beardedragon wrote:
That was my fear but i hadnt really done the math if the snazzwagon was actually surperior if you used the squig buggy as a combat buggy

Actually, I didn't do the math either, I just happend to have the two alongside each other in a crusade that ended recently - plenty of games to compare the two

The snazzwagon isn't going to perform any miracles, but it simply brings the right stuff for the correct amount of points.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
That was my fear but i hadnt really done the math if the snazzwagon was actually surperior if you used the squig buggy as a combat buggy

Actually, I didn't do the math either, I just happend to have the two alongside each other in a crusade that ended recently - plenty of games to compare the two

The snazzwagon isn't going to perform any miracles, but it simply brings the right stuff for the correct amount of points.

really? I always thought it didnt have enough shots for hitting on 5s. I figured it should have like 20 shots at half range rather than 14. But at the same time i dont have a snazzwagon yet.

**Afrodactyl**

Beardedragon wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
That was my fear but i hadnt really done the math if the snazzwagon was actually surperior if you used the squig buggy as a combat buggy

Actually, I didn't do the math either, I just happend to have the two alongside each other in a crusade that ended recently - plenty of games to compare the two

The snazzwagon isn't going to perform any miracles, but it simply brings the right stuff for the correct amount of points.

really? I always thought it didnt have enough shots for hitting on 5s. I figured it should have like 20 shots at half range rather than 14. But at the same time i dont have a snazzwagon yet.

It's a pretty solid buggy. I generally use it to screen, kill chaff screens, or to chip bulky units. If you keep your distance a bit, it is actually surprisingly durable and can draw a good amount of firepower.

I only really use it in melee when it's acting as a speedbump, or late game when I'm trying to clean up or make a last minute grab for an objective. The volume of fire on the Speshul and the Big Shoota actually kind of makes up for the lack of a ram or actual melee weapon.

**Blackie**

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

I agree on the cost though given current indirect fire rule. At 90, as it was, would be a good contender.

If it was 90 and, most importantly, we could still burn CPs for multiple detachments, I'd include one squigbuggy everytime. Indirect fire has been nerfed but there's a lot of squishy scoring or annoying infantries (anything with 5+ or 6+ save) that might be hard to catch and it's good against them. With the current points and the upcoming limitations on CPs I think the squigbuggy will be parked in the mekboy garage until the new codex

.

**Echeloon**

Hi, I'm quite new to Orks (and 9th ed), nothing serious mostly casual gaming.
I'm looking for some advice about what to buy next, I've got:

1 Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field
1 Zodgrod Wortsnagga (going to convert to Weirdboy)
1 Trukk
1 Boomdakka Snazzwagons
1 Deff Dreads
3 Deffkoptas
5 Nobz (going to use for some kitbash)
6 Warbikes
10 Kommandos
15 Gretchin
20 Lootas
40 Boyz (old)

My options are
- Beastboss on Squigosaur + 2x Beast Snagga Boys
- Deffkilla Wartrike and a pair of buggies (which ones after the recent changes?)
- more koptas and a jet
- a battlewagon and Ghazgkull
- mek gunz and MANs
(or a mix of these, approximately 200$/€)

Sorry that's a lot of different options but I'm still figuring out where to go with them
Thank you in advance

**Blackie**

Echeloon wrote:

My options are
- Beastboss on Squigosaur + 2x Beast Snagga Boys
- Deffkilla Wartrike and a pair of buggies (which ones after the recent changes?)
- more koptas and a jet
- a battlewagon and Ghazgkull
- mek gunz and MANs
(or a mix of these, approximately 200$/€)

All solid/recommended units to have. You might consider a warboss in megarmour instead of the squigrider one and to add the best snaggas later since you don't really need those.

About the buggies I'd start with a couple of scrapjets, which are the most versatile buggies. I'd avoid getting two different buggies since with the upcoming changes saving slots (fast attack ones in this case) might be key. And I'd recommend a couple of scrapjets to anyone anyway.

**MyDoppelganger**

G00fySmiley wrote:
At the FLGS last night somebody had a "leaked" copy of points changes, not sure if it was legitimate or not, but if so keep them expectations low. boys down... 1 point, gretchin stay the same, beast boys same a few buggies down 5 points. wazboom up another 10, hqs got a 5-10 point cut across the board and nobz down a point per model. cannot validate as it was a white backed pdf so take it with a shovel of salt and hope its better.

10 points off the SAG would be neat. I'd be keen to include him somewhere. Additional 10 points on a Wazbom hurts me, though.

**Jidmah**

SAG+kustom job really isn't worth a point more than 100. 10 points off really doesn't help a lot.

**Grimskul**

Yeah, SAG would need to go to really old prices of around 85-90 points with the kustom job to be in the sweet spot for being useful without being overbearing or too cheap.

**ccs**

IronSlug wrote:
Not a new player but I might as well be since I have played 9th this week-end for the first time. I deliberately went with a very weak old school list and lost a lot. (Well you were supposed to come with a weak list, but you know how this kind of things go...)

Anyway, my question is how do you hold on objectives? I mean, taking them is a thing, but holding them till next turn seems really hard with orks.

I park a truck full of 'Orrible Git Grots on the objective & do my best to kill any opposition trying to contest it or that could reach it.
Sometimes this truck will be upgraded with the 5++ save Kustom Job (depends upon wich truck was still alive/within range of the objective). And if the trucks popped? Now there's a bunch of obsec grots to be cleared away.
Unless there's a pressing reason to disembark (like they need to perform an action)? My grots remain in their trucks until blown out. The truck can hold an uncontested objective just as well as the much more squishy grots & with or without the 5++ save it still takes more killing than they do.
If the grots do willingly disembark? Then they do so with the truck shielding them as much as possible. Grots small, truck larger, sometimes it helps block the enemies LoS....
And if the grots are on the ground? Then I really double down on killing whatever's near that objective/has LoS to the grots.

**Jidmah**

Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, SAG would need to go to really old prices of around 85-90 points with the kustom job to be in the sweet spot for being useful without being overbearing or too cheap.

Well, if you are blood axe, you can least make it immune to shooting

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, SAG would need to go to really old prices of around 85-90 points with the kustom job to be in the sweet spot for being useful without being overbearing or too cheap.

Well, if you are blood axe, you can least make it immune to shooting

Haha true! Though keep it down or that's the next thing they'll take away from us in the next update

**Tomsug**

Marshall Peterson 5th on Wargames for Warriors 2022

Do you expect another victory with his Blood Axe list? No! He changed to goffs. Still a lot of MW tricks, but very different list!

However, he ' s the only one in CI. On other hand, I see a lot of names used to be a ork warbosses driving the different factions now. The longer I do this report from CI the more I think “win rate per faction from the top tables” is a nonsence stat. These kids just switch to the most competitive faction with the tide and that is it. If orks became slightly more comp they will play them tomorrow. The the winrate will jump to the sky. There is not so much corelation between “how the faction is strong” and the win rate imho. The winners of the tournaments are the best players generaly (and that is right) and this dudes simply play one of the top 5 because they want to play top tables. So the more will the comp warhammer rise, the more “crazy win rates of top 5 armies” will appear.

To have a more cleare view, we need the stat “put 10% on the both sides - best and the worst out and make win rate from this”. Which is actually the basic rule of doing any serious statistic.

If we want to see real win rates, we need to make it so, players have to choose the faction for the whole year and keep it to make top players try hard and play with the suboptimal factions.

Spoiler:

**Scactha**

Well spotted Tomsug. Many top players are not only skilled, but also driven to win and hence play more, get better and win more. They just see the armies as a bunch of tools to be picked from. Whatever is best for the moment. This will skew statistics if you zero in on only the winning/top5 players & armies indeed.

**Choppy Da Ork**

Just been sent this....
not sure how true it may be

**Madjob**

Yea that was being floated around a few days earlier.

Any bets on what "few buggies" get the discount? Skrapjets probably not, and I doubt they're ready to walk back the squigbuggy bump yet.

**Grimskul**

After seeing Abbadon's leaked stats and points value, I really hope they chop like 50 points off Ghazzy's price because there's no way he's worth 300 when someone like Abbadon is 300 and has pretty much the wacky stats of all the weird rules buff trends of 9th ed stacked onto one model.

**Blackie**

Grimskul wrote:
After seeing Abbadon's leaked stats and points value, I really hope they chop like 50 points off Ghazzy's price because there's no way he's worth 300 when someone like Abbadon is 300 and has pretty much the wacky stats of all the weird rules buff trends of 9th ed stacked onto one model.

I doubt it, Ghaz already sees the tables pretty often, even at competitive levels. At best it might become 280 or 290 points. If Abbadon is so good that dominates for a while he'll get a price hike at some point instead.

Points changes, especially significant ones, can be expected for units that no one takes or units that are taken in smaller numbers than what GW expects people to field, like boyz. It's units like the SAG, boyz, burnaboyz, lootas, nauts, banner nob, painboy, etc... that could likely get some price cut. Probably not the stompa, which is hopeless

. Maybe tankbustas, if bomb squigs go up.