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 Blackie wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

I don't know if engage is easier than green tides (especially with the change to needing to be 6" away from another table quarter). To get 15 cp you need to throw 2 units very close to your opponent t1 and you'll have to have one unit in all 4 quarters each 5 times. You could max green tides by just putting 3 units in 3 quarters 5 times while it also allows you to play reactively (put 4 in each quarter for 2 turns and then just finish with 10 models in one quarter...)

Its definitely list specific but I think the new secondaries should encourage us to try new list types.

With full green tides? Probably not. But I'm not looking in fielding all infantry lists, on a regular basis at least, just the same mix between MSU and vehicles that I've brought in the entire edition. I'm not sure that a full footsloggin army is going to be good, orks die really fast and there are chances that you don't have much at top of 3 to score. We're too squishy to play the game of board control and die slowly, we have to go on the offensive with a significant portion of the army to reduce the losses.

We do die real quick alrite. I'm looking at running 3 barebones battlewagons to hopefully increase survivability.I'm going to try and run a horde list this weekend and I'll let people know.

The change to engage makes 3 man bike squads (nobz and normal) better.

Also wish to add that herohammer for us is still viable, but you will start at 0 cp and you need Ghazghkull Thrakka.

Keep in mind with engage there's a 12" dead zone similar to RND now.

I could see a world where Drive by Dakka becomes uber clutch going Suns (although no one goes Evil Suns anymore :( ), but I could see running into issues later game scoring Engage generally. I'd see it as maybe an 8 secondary as who really has fast assets left turn 5?

One good thing they could do with the codex in general is look at invulnerable save access, they finally gave in and baked it into warbosses.

That was easily the dumbest thing about the 7th ed codex, changing cybork to a 6+ FNP at 5ppm, which was incredibly inefficient. It makes even less sense when you can throw a combat shield or a storm shield on veteran marines for a reasonable price.

I was under the impression they were normally being run with cybork and painboy (+30) for 5++/4+++, which was actually very competitive for the cost compared to a 2+ meganob that had no save against power weapons. That's what made them appealing and different to meganobs.

A 4+ 2w model isn't even that appealing because of the amount of AP and 2D weapons.

I'd like to see them become truly elite infantry again since it's quite obvious they don't want to make them troops. And even if they did, would you use them over boyz? The only thing I like about them in that regard is that they would synergize a hell of a lot better with transports.

i'd use them over boyz as troops in a sense that i'd want both of them.
Thats a significant price change, so running strictly nobs for troops isnt that smart (probably) but its a vastly superior upgrade to one or two normally boyz squads to become nobz for a tactical reason beyond park it and hold that objective.
As an elite, they need to be more than slightly better than boyz, because we still bring the same number of boyz anyway.

Nobs as troops at like.. 15 or 16 points would be alright.

In Goffs, that would be 5 base attacks, str 6 on the charge, with obsec, and exploding 6s. Under Waaagh, that's 6 attacks.

Even a unit of 5 would actually be an okay trading unit, and it would drastically reduce your footprint so you could avoid getting shot.

Their durability sucks, but it's Orks, our entire army has no durability.

tulun wrote:
Nobs as troops at like.. 15 or 16 points would be alright.

In Goffs, that would be 5 base attacks, str 6 on the charge, with obsec, and exploding 6s. Under Waaagh, that's 6 attacks.

Even a unit of 5 would actually be an okay trading unit, and it would drastically reduce your footprint so you could avoid getting shot.

Their durability sucks, but it's Orks, our entire army has no durability.

Yeah, as troops they would be a glass hammer, but at least you can somewhat tailor them to focus them unlike boyz right now.

If they were to keep them as elites, they need to bring some type of force multiplier ability to nearby MOB units or really jack up their killiness in some way to make them actually feel like CC specialists while allowing Meganobz to be more on the durable side for objective holding.

CaptainO wrote:
I'm looking at running 3 barebones battlewagons to hopefully increase survivability.I'm going to try and run a horde list this weekend and I'll let people know.

Maybe you could bring 5 trukks instead. T7 4+ battlewagons are actually trukks with a bit more wounds. But 3 BWs are 48W, 5 trukks are 50W, same transport capacity of 60 bodies, although with trukks you might end up with some empty seats but I'm not sure you need to have everything embarked. They'd cost +35 points but you'd get much more flexiblity and also durability, since they're 5 bodies instead of 3, easier to hide, and you can save heavy support slots for lootas and mek gunz if you want those.

Battlewagons are 3+

 Jidmah wrote:
Battlewagons are 3+

Which might have an impact against low AP weapons but vs proper anti tank? it's a 6+ at best. Also, if a trukk can't be seen its armour save doesn't matter. Hiding a wagon is much harder.

3+ has a lot of impact against AP-1 and AP-2 weapons which includes rokkits, thunder hammers, battle cannons, plague mortars and similar weapons. All of those are quite dangerous to vehicles.
You also take a lot less "splash" damage from stuff that's just shooting you because it can - these often cause trukks to lose 2 or 3 wounds before someone seriously tries to take one out.

As someone running trukks and battlewagons side by side of over a decade, I also assure you that trukks aren't much easier to hide than battlewagons unless you are hiding a trukk behind a battlewagon.

Points are live on 40k app.
Leaked changers confirmed.

We just need the quarterly update leaks… hopefully it reverts the stupid 1 unit of each buggy rule.

gungo wrote:
We just need the quarterly update leaks… hopefully it reverts the stupid 1 unit of each buggy rule.

Honestly, anything that's a buff rather than a nerf would be greatly welcomed at this point.

gungo wrote:
We just need the quarterly update leaks… hopefully it reverts the stupid 1 unit of each buggy rule.

I don't even mind if if I can't take 9 Scrapjets. I just want the rule to be "maximum of three models per list" or give us back the squadrons.

So i own the ork codex but literally haven't used the app in years (battlescribe is so much better) Can I see the points without needing a subscription? I just need to register my book ya?

Real poor sign of an app if I havent used it since it released and the free trial ended despite actually owning the codex...

No other points drops other than those found on the twisted dice youtube video no?

Bit late but here is the PDF with all changes

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/mYZ4b5gZUiktj4GI.pdf

tellyport blastas for wazboom down 10pts, only thing i noticed, not sure it was on the leaks

There is no change on Wazbooms. Full package is still 230.

Anyway. New points in pdf and not in the stupid book are great. I 'm really looking forward to the sweat futuristic future, when the price of FW models will be in the same PDF… I fully understand how dificult it is to add few lines to the pdf, so maybe 2-5 years of developement…

And new dataslate confirmed for tomorrow.

annoyingly the freaking rokkits on killakanz are still 15pts....

Dammit GW, why do they pay a premium!?

 Tomsug wrote:
There is no change on Wazbooms. Full package is still 230.

Anyway. New points in pdf and not in the stupid book are great. I 'm really looking forward to the sweat futuristic future, when the price of FW models will be in the same PDF… I fully understand how dificult it is to add few lines to the pdf, so maybe 2-5 years of developement…

And new dataslate confirmed for tomorrow.

Ignore that, their counting in singles... jesus man i really hate when they do that

Man dunno how you guy's handle all the discrepancies, but kinda wraps my head in these situations, or it's just me.

I will tune in on the dataslate. To be frank, i don't expect meaningful changes for us, i think this is as much as a bone as we will get.

glad to see the grots go down but still not even close to worth 4 points per model. boyz down 1 point but still morale will mean you lose as many boyz to morale as combat or shooting. small buff but taken into account the buffs to marines and other factions... not looking good for the greenskins overall

 G00fySmiley wrote:
glad to see the grots go down but still not even close to worth 4 points per model. boyz down 1 point but still morale will mean you lose as many boyz to morale as combat or shooting. small buff but taken into account the buffs to marines and other factions... not looking good for the greenskins overall

I disagree. Get the good bitz is an amazing secondary, and you could possibly max it in 3 rounds with 80 points of grots. It is a really good deal.

Domandi wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
glad to see the grots go down but still not even close to worth 4 points per model. boyz down 1 point but still morale will mean you lose as many boyz to morale as combat or shooting. small buff but taken into account the buffs to marines and other factions... not looking good for the greenskins overall

I disagree. Get the good bitz is an amazing secondary, and you could possibly max it in 3 rounds with 80 points of grots. It is a really good deal.

GTBG has definitely given grots back a little niche. At least if you pack them into a BW to soak explosion wounds from MANz, they can bail out and start performing actions midfield rather than scratch their backsides and wait to die.

Yeah, we won't have enough cp to not take troops anymore for lists other than army of reknown that gets worse and worse with how killy and tough things become all around us (but not us).
Killtigs are back to 190 but are they still worth it?

Overall, others got better cuts but I guess, we're around where we used to be pre-point change if you compare. Meh.

Dataslate confirmed for tomorrow.

These changes are nice and all but we really need a dataslate buff for this to matter enough.

I'm glad to see they've conceded their "every model costs 5 points" crap. A grot being the floor at 4 points makes more sense! Kroot, Guardsmen (etc) cost 50% more. More wiggle room at the bottom now.

I mean we haven’t heard any rumors on the dataslate so don’t expect major changes…

At best I hope they remove the buggy limit. Which really isn’t going to do much anymore especially since detachment and FA slots are limited.

I mean we can hope for fw nob bikers updates but the army of renown train has left already. I mean maybe removing warlord limit would be okay but again relic warlord trait changes limit the effectiveness of that buff.

My point is there isn’t much rules changes that will help orks we literally need a new codex as fundamental issues like morale, strategems, and keywords issues hurt orks the most.

gungo wrote:
I mean we haven’t heard any rumors on the dataslate so don’t expect major changes…

At best I hope they remove the buggy limit. Which really isn’t going to do much anymore especially since detachment and FA slots are limited.

I mean we can hope for fw nob bikers updates but the army of renown train has left already. I mean maybe removing warlord limit would be okay but again relic warlord trait changes limit the effectiveness of that buff.

My point is there isn’t much rules changes that will help orks we literally need a new codex as fundamental issues like morale, strategems, and keywords issues hurt orks the most.

Oh, I'm not expecting the moon, but AoC was a nice surprise.

But yes, Orks are likely still a low-mid 40s faction no matter what if we're lucky. The top factions got chipped down and we got slightly pushed up.

I doubt nob biker changes would appear in a dataslate instead of an errata update to the FW compendium.

Madjob wrote:
I doubt nob biker changes would appear in a dataslate instead of an errata update to the FW compendium.

It won’t matter much even if they did the army of renown has fallen behind the power creep and mission sections.

I doubt nob biker changes will appear.