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gungo wrote:
Looks like it’s still goff/bloodaxe pressure lists…
Although it is kinda interesting are boys decent again? Or is beastsnaggas better?

Are trukk boys ok now that they are str5 and 3 atks each on charge?

I mean ap0-1 is still awful so I’d say no on a single squad of trukk boys and it’s better to use the specialist mob on grots for objective play.

No for trulkboyz as trucks are still awfully overpriced.
However, you might give a shot for 105 pt bare wagons if you have some and don't lack hs slots. They still die extremely easy but are better than trucks point for point.
I'd not sure if placing boyz in there is gonna be worth it. 10 s5 boyz are gonna kill 2-3 meq and 0-1 terminator. Not a great investment considering how expensive they still are. They need a way to become ap2 now. But there is none I'm aware of. So, not good vs Marines. Might be ok vs eldar of sorts. Depends on your meta.

I mean you have to take troops anyway…
I was just theorizing of the viability over beastsnaggas..

But better units would be warbikers and deffkoptas who benefit greatly from 5++/6++
And +1 str… goff deffkoptas especially with +2 str on charge and +1 atk.

We throw out alot of high str6-7 atks with low ap..

Also all the major S tier lists were brought down hard..
I think sisters will be a problem but I think orks will be okay and somewhere in B tier.

Amazing changes!

The 5+ invuln army wide for that critical turn where you break cover and charge in is huuuuge. It's like the old KFF but army wide and also works in combat and is free!

Coupled with the points decreases I think that puts Kill rigs full of lads firmly back on the radar.

The +1 S for two turns also opens up more Clan options not sure if Goffs is quite the auto take it was.

Buggy changes is just a nice little quality of life boost.

Goff Koptas get 9 attacks each at S7 with exploding sixes on the charge.

A mob of five throws out 45 attacks, and can use the MW strats if they're Speed Mob.

It would have been nice to also get some extra AP on the charge, but we might be able to head back toward drowning things in volume of attacks rather than quality attacks.

 koooaei wrote:
I don't think it's gonna change much. We're still not punching through armor of contempt of Marines that have also become cheaper with that +1 str.
8pt boyz are still too expensive.
Being able to get msu buggies is not too bad tho, however, with fewer cp you won't be able to use it too effectively.
4 pt grots are nice tho.
5++ is only in your turn, so, you still need kff and 2cp. You also loose half a turn of protecrion if you go second.

Basically, compared to other factions, we're around where we used to be.

When you call the Waaagh! the first stage lasts until your next command phase at which it point it triggers the second stage which lasts until the command phase after that. So you retain the 5+ and then the 6+ in your opponents turns.

Unless I'm misinterpreting you and you are saying that we don't benefit from the invuln on turn 1 if we go second. which is true. But you can hide a lot of your army or just outrange your opponent on turn 1. It's very rare that we get alpha'd turn one. We tend to get wrecked the turn after we commit.

It is literaly +1S and +1A and invu for 2 turns for all ork units. Anything. Incl Kanz or Walkers.

Cool

Going second will be painfull however… to get this you need to declare the waagh first.

These army wide rules are ridiculous. Might as well just bring back KFF at that point.

Advance and charge is also gone.

 TedNugent wrote:
These army wide rules are ridiculous. Might as well just bring back KFF at that point.

Advance and charge is also gone.

What do you mean that Advance and Charge is gone?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
These army wide rules are ridiculous. Might as well just bring back KFF at that point.

Advance and charge is also gone.

What do you mean that Advance and Charge is gone?

Never mind, the rendering on my phone was messed up.

Goff squigs are probably new meta. Every flavor gets up to s8 on the charge, with multidamage weapons that have at least ap-2.

This is a nice change.

The way I'd see it: you take a KFF for a reactive 5++ invul in the first battle round against a shooty army. It's a good use of CP when we might start seeing Orks starting a lot more models out of transport and on the board and they won't instantly all evaporate.

Either you go first and get to move stuff up and soak up the damage, or you go 2nd and your stuff in the open will at least have a decent chance of survival.

Then turn 2 call Waaaagh and get your 5++ army wide.

Means we have Turn 1 army wide 5++ (toe in that 9" kff), turn 2 army wide 5++, and turn 3 army wide 6++.

Will it make Orks S tier? No, but this along with points drops absolutely helps.

tulun wrote:
This is a nice change.

The way I'd see it: you take a KFF for a reactive 5++ invul in the first battle round against a shooty army. It's a good use of CP when we might start seeing Orks starting a lot more models out of transport and on the board and they won't instantly all evaporate.

Either you go first and get to move stuff up and soak up the damage, or you go 2nd and your stuff in the open will at least have a decent chance of survival.

Then turn 2 call Waaaagh and get your 5++ army wide.

Means we have Turn 1 army wide 5++ (toe in that 9" kff), turn 2 army wide 5++, and turn 3 army wide 6++.

Will it make Orks S tier? No, but this along with points drops absolutely helps.

My thoughts exactly. I have a bloodaxe list lined up for playing on Sunday, I'm definitely looking forward to how this pans out.

And Reddit is now saying all kustom jobs are free because GW forgot to include points for them.. but it’s never been included in the points update sooo..

I think the changes are quality.

I said a few pages back that an extra +1 s for the waagh would be cool.

I get that extra ap would be nice but I think its important that each faction has its own flavour. It makes sense orks hit hard but don't have high tech weapons to cut through armour.

The dataslate changes for boyz (and to a lesser extent snaggas and grots) combined with green tide make hordes more tempting.

The change to buggies is also welcome.

I agree with tulun that it doesnt make us S tier (seeing that S tier armies are bad for the meta thats no bad thing) but we have definitely improved.

I think with the waaagh changes Nobz with big choppa are looking really nice for 5 at 100pts

If squighoggs are the new meta, nobz are not far behind being goff at S9 and -2AP

What is the change to buggies that people are refering to? All I see on the errata is the restriction of 3 per buggy in an army.

Oh I get it. But is that actually like feasible? We likely not gonna have the FA slots to spare?

The restriction is on models not units, so you can take 2 + 1 individual

I mean between the choice of nobs and kommandos, I’d still max out goff kommandos..
Breachas being str8 on charge and 3+ 5++
Nobs being str 9 on charge…
Basic kommandos being str6…
You don’t really need nobs as they don’t offer anything more for the cost..

I mean str8 nobs are cool but still slow and easily killed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
What is the change to buggies that people are refering to? All I see on the errata is the restriction of 3 per buggy in an army.

Oh I get it. But is that actually like feasible? We likely not gonna have the FA slots to spare?

If you don’t need to use all your FA slots it’s better to take 3 individual scrapjets then a unit of 3, same with all buggies… however I agree with trying to stay within 1 detachment it’s not really feasible with a lot of great units in FA.. it does allow you to take shokk jumps seperately and squigbuggies w kustom job easier…

More single buggies is a trap.

If you play buggies, you gave up 15 VP on Bring it down.

If you play tons of single buggies you burn CPs for extra detach and give up 15 VP for grind them down

 Tomsug wrote:
More single buggies is a trap.

If you play buggies, you gave up 15 VP on Bring it down.

If you play tons of single buggies you burn CPs for extra detach and give up 15 VP for grind them down

Honestly, with how cheap grots are, Brigade is on the table. Gives you 6 FA slots which is enough.

gungo wrote:
I mean between the choice of nobs and kommandos, I’d still max out goff kommandos..
Breachas being str8 on charge and 3+ 5++
Nobs being str 9 on charge…
Basic kommandos being str6…
You don’t really need nobs as they don’t offer anything more for the cost..

I mean str8 nobs are cool but still slow and easily killed

You pay 10 more for the kommandos, same wounds and 5 more if you want a claw + 5 for breacha, also i am under the impression the breach is for 1 model only, so 3 attacks at what you mentioned plus 4 for claw (added waagh for both), rest is all choppa so 8x3 attcks

Not sure about you but nobz have 3 attacks each, so 4, thats 20 attacks at S9 AP -2 on charge.Also you can add choppas for 5 extra attacks at S7.

We can argue over nobz foot slogging and we have tools to solve that. What i wont argue is over what is killy.

Big Choppas aren't AP2. They're AP1.

It's why people tend towards double choppa. 5 attacks each, 6 under waaagh, at str 7 sounds good to me for less points.

Ya I was wondering what weps yall were talking bout. These sound like Nid weapon profiles not orks.

I was trying to compare nobs to Nid warriors but nobs fall short in almost every category.

Shooting pales in comparison.
Warriors have +1W and im sure faction survivability addons
Warriors have more attacks and better weapon options.

Klaws or Saws I think are closer but 8pts is a bit much. 5pts would have been nice to see.

I think a Nob should be slightly disadvantaged but should be able to stand toe to toe with a Warrior lore wise.

Quickly tossed together Goff list with new points:

Brigade --

MA Boss, Cybork Body, 'Ard as Nails
MA Kff Mek, relic Shoota
Painboss, Big Gob (6" FNP aura)
40 Snaggas
20 Grots
10 Kommandos, 1 w/ Klaw
10 Hogs
5 Deff Copters
8 Mega Nobs
15 Stormboyz
3 KMK Mek Guns
1 Truck

Take Da Good Bits, Da biggest, then either engage or Green Tide.

Turn 1 pop 5++ KFF if need be. Have grots hop outside my truck to do good bits, and start good bits with 1 hog squad on other flank. Have 2nd grot squad re-enter truck to do it turn 2 (will assume first grots are probably dead). Move the phalanx forward, get my MA boss onto an objective midboard to score 2 for Da Biggest and hope to keep doing this for a few turns.

Turn 2, pop the waaagh, have the copters go out of deep strike, and do a big push.

Feels like a list that could actually work?

tulun wrote:
Big Choppas aren't AP2. They're AP1.

It's why people tend towards double choppa. 5 attacks each, 6 under waaagh, at str 7 sounds good to me for less points.

I admit i was wrong on the AP part, but that doesn't make them that bad.

85 for nobz is a steal with choppas at S7 with 30 attacks and same amount of wounds as kommandos which would be at 110pts.
For 15 extra points you get S9 20 atacks AP -1 damage 2. That's all i am saying.

By the way is the kustoms jobs free or not, getting confused about it.

Forceride wrote:

gungo wrote:
I mean between the choice of nobs and kommandos, I’d still max out goff kommandos..
Breachas being str8 on charge and 3+ 5++
Nobs being str 9 on charge…
Basic kommandos being str6…
You don’t really need nobs as they don’t offer anything more for the cost..

I mean str8 nobs are cool but still slow and easily killed

You pay 10 more for the kommandos, same wounds and 5 more if you want a claw + 5 for breacha, also i am under the impression the breach is for 1 model only, so 3 attacks at what you mentioned plus 4 for claw (added waagh for both), rest is all choppa so 8x3 attcks

Not sure about you but nobz have 3 attacks each, so 4, thats 20 attacks at S9 AP -2 on charge.Also you can add choppas for 5 extra attacks at S7.

We can argue over nobz foot slogging and we have tools to solve that. What i wont argue is over what is killy.

Nobs are 17 points each and a 5 man squad is 30x str 7 ap-1 choppa atks..@85 and 10wounds. If you decide to give each of them (which I would) a BC at 3pts each for 15 pts that’s 100pts for
20x str9 ap-1 BC and 5x str7 ap-1 choppa…
Compared to kommandos at 11points each for a 10 man squad at 41x str 6 ap-1 choppa atks @110pts and 11 wounds (more wounds).. I’d definitely take a bomb squig and PK at 5pts each for a total of +10pts and I’m still only paying 120pts for this unit that doesn’t need a transport and hinders my opponents ability to Get to thier midfield Objectives. (The breacha is debateable at +5 pts.) anyway the above kommando unit is
36x str6 ap-1 choppa atks (+1 to wound in terrain), and 4x str10 ap-2 d2 pk atks (+1 to wound in terrain) plus bomb squig…

Regardless they both compete for elite slots… the Kommandos cost 20pts more have More wounds, better saves, significantly more atks and Don’t require a transport. Imho nobs are still overpriced by at least 1pt but really 2. Nobs have +1 str but you do a lot less atks which you need when everything is -1ap (except klaw/saw)

 Tomsug wrote:
It is literaly +1S and +1A and invu for 2 turns for all ork units. Anything. Incl Kanz or Walkers.

Cool

Going second will be painfull however… to get this you need to declare the waagh first.

Not unless you buy a KFF for a cheeky turn 1 5++ and then activate your Waagh turn 2 for a 5++ there too.

But i definitely did not expect any of these changes from the quarterly update. I dont even know where to begin. So many things i want to try out.

Nobz are still extremely unerdwhelming. And if you just compare them for Cam units that cost around the same, it gets depressing. Worse in every way.

gungo wrote:


Regardless they both compete for elite slots… the Kommandos cost 20pts more have More wounds, better saves, significantly more atks and Don’t require a transport. Imho nobs are still overpriced by at least 1pt but really 2. Nobs have +1 str but you do a lot less atks which you need when everything is -1ap (except klaw/saw)

To be fair kommandos have a better save.... while in cover. In combat, and we're talking about a melee unit, they're t-shirt save dudes while nobz have 4+ save. So against other models that don't wield melee weapons with high AP nobz are definitely tougher.

I don't think nobz are overpriced. They're just useless. Being elite and with their current rules/wargear they can either be too cheap and spammable or too expensive. They need to be troops, period. Then they'd be a legit option as they are, they could even be 1 or 2 points per model more expensive actually and still be ok.

As long as you manage to stay in cover, you still get a 4+ save from Sneaky Gitz in combat.