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gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

My own truck born grots each now include a Runtherd.
This allows the grots to deploy outside thier truck at the start of Nephlim based games (not all of our games are matched nor Nephim etc) - depending upon secondaries etc chosen.
The runtherd just chills in the passenger seat, holding down that turn 1 Deadmans switch

Runtherd will have to be outside the vehicle for the turn the grots are. Otherwise the won't get his +1"

CaptainO wrote:
Runtherd will have to be outside the vehicle for the turn the grots are. Otherwise the won't get his +1"

My Grots don't want or need his +1". In fact, they want as few actual Orks with them in the list as possible*. They do rely upon their truck(s) for survival though (and to narratively haul away the loot/scrap).
Having their ride spontaneously combust would be very inconvenient....
A truck might well die Turn 1, but it'll only do so because the opponent put the effort into killing it.

So that Runtherds sole job is to keep the damn truck from Turn 1 Nephilim-auto-destructing in the event that I decide the grots should start the game deployed on the ground for some reason - in a Matched Game.
That's it, that's the only reason I'm spending pts on him. Any further use he can serve later is a bonus.

*Before this Nephilim crap? I only ran 1 actual ork model (WB in MA) - because 1) in Crusade I'm not allowed, by the Codex rules, to lead the force with a Named Character. Guess what the only two Grot characters are? And 2) because there's only two Grot characters in the HQ slots, without an actual Ork character I can't run a 3rd detachment.
Any other ork? Is just a vehicle driver/pilot.

Nephilim and crusade are separate mission packs and neither impact the other.

Dedicated transports do not self-destruct in any other game mode than War Zone Nephilim: Grand Tournament - even BRB matched play and tempest of war are safe.

At this point, I'd also like to dust off one of the most ancient rules of this thread - if people are clearly are looking for advice for their Nephilim games, casual gaming advice is unlikely to help them.

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

6 out of the 9 missions have objectives 12" away from your deployment zone. 2 of these have no objectives within 12". 3" boost from a vehicle and the grots 5" isn't enough to get your Gretchen doing max get the good bits T1. If you're serious about getting the max vp early you need the herders. They do give up assassinate to be sure but only if they get caught .

maybe im dense but how would a runtherd help you here?

If theres 12 inches to the nearest objective, grots move 5, +3 from disembarking a trukk, +1 from grot lash runtherd, which equals 9" movement. You still wouldnt reach an objective 12 inches away? You cant advance and use actions unless you play blood axes.

Unless you mean that the center is 12 inches away and not the objective edge. If you meant the center, wouldnt we still be 0,1 inch away?

Since objective markers sould be 40mm in diameter and you need to be within 3" of the Marker ( not the center of the marker!), you will need slightly more than an 8" move to get into control range of an objective that is placed 12" from the deployment zones (12" - 20 mm (radius of the marker) - 3")

Good morning! Now I see it. The nerf to freebootas is unfortunately intentional. Because otherwise it stacks with this new rule and makes you zooming around the table with open top battlewagons full of tankbustas hitting on 4+… 45 D3 shots = 45 hits 8/-2/3 = big knight down pretty easy.

/ my speculation

 Tomsug wrote:
Good morning! Now I see it. The nerf to freebootas is unfortunately intentional. Because otherwise it stacks with this new rule and makes you zooming around the table with open top battlewagons full of tankbustas hitting on 4+… 45 D3 shots = 45 hits 8/-2/3 = big knight down pretty easy.

/ my speculation

what new rule? A +1 to hit to vehicles always gave +1 to hit to embarked units, even if the transport didnt transfer it (which it did anyway). because embarked units are and always (at least in 9th) were affected by own detatchment rules.

So tankbustas in a vehicle would still get +1 to hit from freebootas before. The only reason i see to them updating that FAQ for embarked units was because people had issues with what a modification to dice is, and wanted to give AP to embarked units in a transport.

Now its just down to hit rolls, wound rolls and for some reason, damage rolls.

 Tomsug wrote:
Good morning! Now I see it. The nerf to freebootas is unfortunately intentional. Because otherwise it stacks with this new rule and makes you zooming around the table with open top battlewagons full of tankbustas hitting on 4+… 45 D3 shots = 45 hits 8/-2/3 = big knight down pretty easy.

/ my speculation

That was possible from the get go and never really worked well - 1035 points killing a big knight after killing another one on the same turn first isn't gamebreaking, it's just bad.

But is the combo of having a trukk, grots and a runtherd worth the strategy of being able to get 3 points (or 5 points if you do this with 2 trukks, 2 runtherds and 20 grots) by turn 1 worth that investment?

I mean you dont "need" to get good bits by turn 1 to max it, and it is a bit of an investment i would say.

Although one could make the argument that once the grots depart from the trukk the trukk could be used to house someone else. Like burna boys or trukkboys. But that would leave those units unprotected meanwhile. And one already is buying at least 20 grots these days, i know i am.

Beardedragon wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

6 out of the 9 missions have objectives 12" away from your deployment zone. 2 of these have no objectives within 12". 3" boost from a vehicle and the grots 5" isn't enough to get your Gretchen doing max get the good bits T1. If you're serious about getting the max vp early you need the herders. They do give up assassinate to be sure but only if they get caught .

maybe im dense but how would a runtherd help you here?

If theres 12 inches to the nearest objective, grots move 5, +3 from disembarking a trukk, +1 from grot lash runtherd, which equals 9" movement. You still wouldnt reach an objective 12 inches away? You cant advance and use actions unless you play blood axes.

Unless you mean that the center is 12 inches away and not the objective edge. If you meant the center, wouldnt we still be 0,1 inch away?

That runtherder annoys me enough to change klan to bloodaxe..
He just adds so little to the list and gives up vps easily…
I just got to play it and see how bad is it dropping goff to bloodaxe…
I gain command points, a Strats to more easily obtain objectives, and a small amount of first turn durability, but I lose offensive potential by dropping from str7/8 on charge to str 6/7 on all infantry plus exploding 6s.. kommandos in terrain and beastsnaggas into vehicle/monsters slightly offset this loss with +1 to wound.
i changed the above list to bloodaxe to play the mission game much easier. Tactical awareness is good enough for get the good bits or counter playing your opponent if they are playing banners.

95pts of free kustom jobs also gives you a bunch of fun models to play with.

gungo wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

6 out of the 9 missions have objectives 12" away from your deployment zone. 2 of these have no objectives within 12". 3" boost from a vehicle and the grots 5" isn't enough to get your Gretchen doing max get the good bits T1. If you're serious about getting the max vp early you need the herders. They do give up assassinate to be sure but only if they get caught .

maybe im dense but how would a runtherd help you here?

If theres 12 inches to the nearest objective, grots move 5, +3 from disembarking a trukk, +1 from grot lash runtherd, which equals 9" movement. You still wouldnt reach an objective 12 inches away? You cant advance and use actions unless you play blood axes.

Unless you mean that the center is 12 inches away and not the objective edge. If you meant the center, wouldnt we still be 0,1 inch away?

That runtherder annoys me enough to change klan to bloodaxe..
He just adds so little to the list and gives up vps easily…
I just got to play it and see how bad is it dropping goff to bloodaxe…
I gain command points, a Strats to more easily obtain objectives, and a small amount of first turn durability, but I lose offensive potential by dropping from str7/8 on charge to str 6/7 on all infantry plus exploding 6s..
i changed the above list to bloodaxe to play the mission game much easier. Tactical awareness is good enough for get the good bits or counter playing your opponent if they are playing banners.

95pts of free kustom jobs also gives you a bunch of fun models to play with.

Yea. I havent tried the Runtherder yet, nor have i tried the new warzone at all either. Ill be playing some goff for now. Out the back of my head i dont see that it should be an issue that i dont get 3/5 points turn 1 from good bits. Starting off from turn 2 seems fine with me.

Beardedragon wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

6 out of the 9 missions have objectives 12" away from your deployment zone. 2 of these have no objectives within 12". 3" boost from a vehicle and the grots 5" isn't enough to get your Gretchen doing max get the good bits T1. If you're serious about getting the max vp early you need the herders. They do give up assassinate to be sure but only if they get caught .

maybe im dense but how would a runtherd help you here?

If theres 12 inches to the nearest objective, grots move 5, +3 from disembarking a trukk, +1 from grot lash runtherd, which equals 9" movement. You still wouldnt reach an objective 12 inches away? You cant advance and use actions unless you play blood axes.

Unless you mean that the center is 12 inches away and not the objective edge. If you meant the center, wouldnt we still be 0,1 inch away?

As Bossdoc explained the size of the objective marker (20 mm/0.787") radius and the fact the objective "zone" is measured 3" from the edge of the marker means that the grots 8" will not make it onto the zone (you'll be 0.213" away from the zone) but the extra 1" from the herder will get you into scoring range.
I for one am building my list so I can take GTGB every Nephilim game, have the option of either greentide or engage and have the option of psychic secondaries. I understand that a lot of people are just going to wait until t2 to start scoring GTGB but you're then running the risk of your grots especially being picked up.

CaptainO wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

6 out of the 9 missions have objectives 12" away from your deployment zone. 2 of these have no objectives within 12". 3" boost from a vehicle and the grots 5" isn't enough to get your Gretchen doing max get the good bits T1. If you're serious about getting the max vp early you need the herders. They do give up assassinate to be sure but only if they get caught .

maybe im dense but how would a runtherd help you here?

If theres 12 inches to the nearest objective, grots move 5, +3 from disembarking a trukk, +1 from grot lash runtherd, which equals 9" movement. You still wouldnt reach an objective 12 inches away? You cant advance and use actions unless you play blood axes.

Unless you mean that the center is 12 inches away and not the objective edge. If you meant the center, wouldnt we still be 0,1 inch away?

As Bossdoc explained the size of the objective marker (20 mm/0.787") radius and the fact the objective "zone" is measured 3" from the edge of the marker means that the grots 8" will not make it onto the zone (you'll be 0.213" away from the zone) but the extra 1" from the herder will get you into scoring range.
I for one am building my list so I can take GTGB every Nephilim game, have the option of either greentide or engage and have the option of psychic secondaries. I understand that a lot of people are just going to wait until t2 to start scoring GTGB but you're then running the risk of your grots especially being picked up.

Tactical awareness- blood axe strat- Gretchin can advance and still perform actions…
This means I have a greater movement range then using the runtherder..
3in disembark, 5in movement , and d6 advance. Means grots have a movement of 9-14in.. more then the runtherder. No need to worrry about runtherder being in range and odds are being able to advance and do an action will come up at least once more in during the game. The above army list is just meant to play the mission game but kustom jobs do provide fun units to play with now.. particularly deepstriking klawdreads that only need 8in into ruin charges.

gungo wrote:

Tactical awareness- blood axe strat- Gretchin can advance and still perform actions…
This means I have a greater movement range then using the runtherder..
3in disembark, 5in movement , and d6 advance. Means grots have a movement of 9-14in.. more then the runtherder. No need to worrry about runtherder being in range and odds are being able to advance and do an action will come up at least once more in during the game. The above army list is just meant to play the mission game but kustom jobs do provide fun units to play with now.. particularly deepstriking klawdreads that only need 8in into ruin charges.

Can't do this, sadly.

You have to use the stratagem at the start of *any phase*. The grots will be in the truck then.

So they gotta run only, no truck if you wanna do this. they'll only go farther on a 4+ or 3+ with herder.

Which change made our Kustom jobs free? Can't seem to find this anywhere.

tulun wrote:

gungo wrote:

Tactical awareness- blood axe strat- Gretchin can advance and still perform actions…
This means I have a greater movement range then using the runtherder..
3in disembark, 5in movement , and d6 advance. Means grots have a movement of 9-14in.. more then the runtherder. No need to worrry about runtherder being in range and odds are being able to advance and do an action will come up at least once more in during the game. The above army list is just meant to play the mission game but kustom jobs do provide fun units to play with now.. particularly deepstriking klawdreads that only need 8in into ruin charges.

Can't do this, sadly.

You have to use the stratagem at the start of *any phase*. The grots will be in the truck then.

So they gotta run only, no truck if you wanna do this. they'll only go farther on a 4+ or 3+ with herder.

Nevermind got ya

gungo wrote:

tulun wrote:

gungo wrote:

Tactical awareness- blood axe strat- Gretchin can advance and still perform actions…
This means I have a greater movement range then using the runtherder..
3in disembark, 5in movement , and d6 advance. Means grots have a movement of 9-14in.. more then the runtherder. No need to worrry about runtherder being in range and odds are being able to advance and do an action will come up at least once more in during the game. The above army list is just meant to play the mission game but kustom jobs do provide fun units to play with now.. particularly deepstriking klawdreads that only need 8in into ruin charges.

Can't do this, sadly.

You have to use the stratagem at the start of *any phase*. The grots will be in the truck then.

So they gotta run only, no truck if you wanna do this. they'll only go farther on a 4+ or 3+ with herder.

Why can’t you use this during your command phase (any phase).
Movement phase- disembark and move/advance…
End of movement start get good bits..

The strat lasts until end of turn it doesn’t matter when you use it.

You can't select a unit in a transport for any stratagem. It's a core book rule.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Which change made our Kustom jobs free? Can't seem to find this anywhere.

MFM doesn’t list cost
And
Gw pushed out a new update to the app that set the cost to zero

Chance it might be a mistake but general consensus is it’s probably intentional. Most tournaments are allowing it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

gungo wrote:

tulun wrote:


Can't do this, sadly.

You have to use the stratagem at the start of *any phase*. The grots will be in the truck then.

So they gotta run only, no truck if you wanna do this. they'll only go farther on a 4+ or 3+ with herder.

Why can’t you use this during your command phase (any phase).
Movement phase- disembark and move/advance…
End of movement start get good bits..

The strat lasts until end of turn it doesn’t matter when you use it.

You can't select a unit in a transport for any stratagem. It's a core book rule.

I got ya I realize after I typed it. Dangit no way around that runtherder :/

You can still get a truck full of 10 tankbustas hitting on 4s if you put a trulkboy warboss in with them.

I'm putting my big mek in mega armour into my trukkboyz trukk after he pops his off so he'll be hitting on 3s with his d3+1 shot mega blasta (although this requires the trukk to still be alive and some trukkboyz to be alive and in the vehicle)

thats....kinda funny actually
Can auxilleriy detachments take HQs? bout the only way i'd be willing to "sacrifice" a boss for that lol

edit: or...banner nob.... Trukkboyz works on Nobs... his natural aura would be wasted but he'd be better for that than a warboss.

Wait a minute…
Why won’t disembark 3in, movement 5in be in range of an objective that’s 3.757 from center…
Even if you use the 7.5in objective range markers it will work.

Am I wrong?

Disembark is wholly within, its part of the several reasons why transports suck balls right now.
They hard neutered transports from... well.. transporting things for whatever reason.

edit: its also why theres a faq about disembarking models with bases bigger than 3" because Necrons had that problem initially where Szeras could not legally get out of a Nightscythe lol

gungo wrote:
Wait a minute…
Why won’t disembark 3in, movement 5in be in range of an objective that’s 3.757 from center…
Even if you use the 7.5in objective range markers it will work.

Am I wrong?

Afraid so dude. Because you deploy wholey within 3" (unless you like to live dangerously and put ghaz in a wagon) you'll still be minimum 4" away from any "centre" objectives (objectives that start 12" away) if you move 5" after disembarking.

I can totally see why people might not be fussed about get 5vp t1 but the main weakness I found for orks post nephilimis is their longevity so it makes sense to me to grab as many secondary VP early before we get wiped from the board.

Thanks for the help guys.. no way around that runtherder (can’t even use zodgrod as he doesn’t have the lash)

gungo wrote:
Thanks for the help guys.. no way around that runtherder (can’t even use zodgrod as he doesn’t have the lash)

Ya its such a pity. Great model. Woeful rules. (and he takes up a hq spot!?!?!?)

gungo wrote:
Thanks for the help guys.. no way around that runtherder (can’t even use zodgrod as he doesn’t have the lash)

Just take banners and don't bother.

 koooaei wrote:

gungo wrote:
Thanks for the help guys.. no way around that runtherder (can’t even use zodgrod as he doesn’t have the lash)

Just take banners and don't bother.

Naw it’s doable just need runtherder… outside of tabling the list on turn 3 you will max get the good bits if setup correctly… it also ties in well with engage while you don’t need to worry as much about controlling the objective.. so you can block your opponents objectives instead.

Btw what prevents me from adding squighide tires or shokkahull to a mekgun? It’s an “orks””vehicle”….

Best I got:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

Nothing prevents you from putting those on a Mekgun other than...why?
Squighide tires doesnt really do much and a mekgun realistically wont ever see melee for shokkahull.

gungo wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

gungo wrote:
Thanks for the help guys.. no way around that runtherder (can’t even use zodgrod as he doesn’t have the lash)

Just take banners and don't bother.

Naw it’s doable just need runtherder… outside of tabling the list on turn 3 you will max get the good bits if setup correctly… it also ties in well with engage while you don’t need to worry as much about controlling the objective.. so you can block your opponents objectives instead.

Btw what prevents me from adding squighide tires or shokkahull to a mekgun? It’s an “orks””vehicle”….

Best I got:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

Ya not having to worry about a secondary after t3 is lovely.
Interesting with the Mekgun. Literally never occured to me. You might as well throw them on for free if you've no other more deserving vehicles (which would be any vehicle really). Squighide tires is probably the more useful as it gives the gun a better chance of popping out from behind obscuring.