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ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

ccs wrote:
Looks like my beloved Grot Mega-Tanks will be losing a bit of firepower with the new twin-link rules.

How nice that you already know rules. Care to share bit for rest of us mortals limited to what GW tells us?

If you care to you too could go read the article about 10e weapons on GWs community site.....

Scroll down to the bit about the assault bolter gauntlets - shooting & melee.
It tells you what the TL rule is.
I've no reason to believe twin link will work differently for orks (or my Grots) than it does fir the SM in the example.

Of course I am making the assumption that my grot Mega-Tanks will still have two turrets that both have TL weapons....

And you know the stat profiles of your tanks and point costs...how?

You are making assumptions. #1 mistake of people who are unused to new editions. Stop doing that mistake,'.

Just to ram it home how stupid making assumptions is.

Grot tank is 1 pts per model, 2000 pts armies.

Your army firepower shrunk?

Never mind firepower/durability isn't absolute value but relative compared to others and costs so before making claim you need to know not just core rules but also rules for your army and cost for your army and rules for opponent army and costs for new army.

Unless you know those you are making assumptions and are making just worthless claims.

tneva82 wrote:

ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

ccs wrote:
Looks like my beloved Grot Mega-Tanks will be losing a bit of firepower with the new twin-link rules.

How nice that you already know rules. Care to share bit for rest of us mortals limited to what GW tells us?

If you care to you too could go read the article about 10e weapons on GWs community site.....

Scroll down to the bit about the assault bolter gauntlets - shooting & melee.
It tells you what the TL rule is.
I've no reason to believe twin link will work differently for orks (or my Grots) than it does fir the SM in the example.

Of course I am making the assumption that my grot Mega-Tanks will still have two turrets that both have TL weapons....

And you know the stat profiles of your tanks and point costs...how?

You are making assumptions. #1 mistake of people who are unused to new editions. Stop doing that mistake,'.

Just to ram it home how stupid making assumptions is.

Grot tank is 1 pts per model, 2000 pts armies.

Your army firepower shrunk?

Never mind firepower/durability isn't absolute value but relative compared to others and costs so before making claim you need to know not just core rules but also rules for your army and cost for your army and rules for opponent army and costs for new army.

Unless you know those you are making assumptions and are making just worthless claims.

My Grot Mega-Tank is currently set up with a shoota (non-optional), 3 single turrets (choose one weapon per turret: BS, scorcha, rokkit, KMB), & 2 turrets each containing a matched pair of those turret weapons.
9th is the only edition where the 2-weapon turrets on this tank are not listed as being twin-linked. Yes, I assume that will be changed. If it doesn't change? Great! And I know what the coming Twin-Linked rule is because GW has told us what it is.
Anyways....
I currently have 7 turret weapons to fire. Assuming that those 2 turrets revert back to Twin-Linked? Then I'll only have 5 turret weapons to fire.
Since 5 weapons are less than 7 weapons, yes that'd be a reduction in my firepower. It doesn't matter what the exact weapons are, the pts involved, their stats etc. A shoota + 5 weapons is STILL less than a shoota + 7 weapons.
So yes, I'm expecting a slight loss of firepower.

As for my XP with edition change & making assumptions? This'll mark my 9th edition change with 40k alone (my minis gaming isn't limited to 40k, or even GW, not by a long shot).
and after all these years I'm pretty good at making accurate predictions. So I think I'll just ignore your advice.

given that Buggies are some of the lightest vehicle that isnt an artillery piece, wonder if theyre T8.
Which sounds terrifying regardless of how you look at it. Either we get a ton of super cheap high toughness or their price isnt so cheap anymore.
Concerns growing.

I dont think im concerned. First of all, we all know the first few months of new release of an edition, especially one where they change everything, not just like when they went from 8th to 9th where almost nothing really changed, are going to be absolutely messy.

So that doesnt concern me, im really expecting it.

Also im kind of expecting that we will never be super powerful because we frankly never are. And when ever we are, we are nerfed pretty hard, pretty fast. I do believe GW is capable of putting Orks in their usual spot somewhere in the middle.

Also we know close to nothing about what is really going to happen and how. So my head is kinda like: oh new info, cool. it has my interest, but i have no context, so i cant really use it for much. Lets see what happens

Yeah we really are waiting till GW gets around to faction specific teasers. So many pieces of info are being given out bit by bit, we won't get the full picture for a month or so I reckon.

My big hope is that we get 5++ kff back, doks get to be pretty beneficial to the squad they attach to, boyz don’t go up in price, and we keep ap choppas

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
My big hope is that we get 5++ kff back, doks get to be pretty beneficial to the squad they attach to, boyz don’t go up in price, and we keep ap choppas

I feel like they should given that they're reducing pointless strats and baking some of the abilities into the actual unit, so either the KFF is 5++ base now, or we'll be relegated to a 6++ but each Big Mek with it can overcharge it to a 5++ with extra range. I'm hoping that the FNP we get from Painboyz/Painbosses is a 5+ FNP now that it's likely to no longer be an aura. Would make taking big units of boyz relevant again.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
My big hope is that we get 5++ kff back, doks get to be pretty beneficial to the squad they attach to, boyz don’t go up in price, and we keep ap choppas

I wouldn't hold my breath on the ap on choppas. Maybe as a buff a character hands out to a unit? That'd be nice.

Chainswords don't give an ap now so I doubt the choppa would. I mean, assuming a chainsword falls under the CCW profile we were shown. But with powerswords only giving 2 it'd be weird if a random chunk of metal on a stick would be half as good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
My big hope is that we get 5++ kff back, doks get to be pretty beneficial to the squad they attach to, boyz don’t go up in price, and we keep ap choppas

I feel like they should given that they're reducing pointless strats and baking some of the abilities into the actual unit, so either the KFF is 5++ base now, or we'll be relegated to a 6++ but each Big Mek with it can overcharge it to a 5++ with extra range. I'm hoping that the FNP we get from Painboyz/Painbosses is a 5+ FNP now that it's likely to no longer be an aura. Would make taking big units of boyz relevant again.

And all the painboys they shoved in collecting boxes worth having duplicates of.

cody.d. wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
My big hope is that we get 5++ kff back, doks get to be pretty beneficial to the squad they attach to, boyz don’t go up in price, and we keep ap choppas

I wouldn't hold my breath on the ap on choppas. Maybe as a buff a character hands out to a unit? That'd be nice.

Chainswords don't give an ap now so I doubt the choppa would. I mean, assuming a chainsword falls under the CCW profile we were shown. But with powerswords only giving 2 it'd be weird if a random chunk of metal on a stick would be half as good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
My big hope is that we get 5++ kff back, doks get to be pretty beneficial to the squad they attach to, boyz don’t go up in price, and we keep ap choppas

I feel like they should given that they're reducing pointless strats and baking some of the abilities into the actual unit, so either the KFF is 5++ base now, or we'll be relegated to a 6++ but each Big Mek with it can overcharge it to a 5++ with extra range. I'm hoping that the FNP we get from Painboyz/Painbosses is a 5+ FNP now that it's likely to no longer be an aura. Would make taking big units of boyz relevant again.

And all the painboys they shoved in collecting boxes worth having duplicates of.

Yeah, seriously. Having Painboyz become elites that cost a ton that basically amounted to pointless dice rolling fishing for 6's sucked after how ubiquitous they were during 7th ed with how they were thrown into things like the Green Tide formation or 20-30 man Boyz squads.

I can see KFFs going to a 5++ for the unit the mek is attached to. Its stronger on a model to model level, but far more condensed when it can only apply to a single unit. So that kind of balances out things.

Without ap choppas or aura buffs I feel like boyz will be forced to basically all have a warboss attached to the squad in order to deal damage?, like the durability of units has only seemed to go higher, the ap on the choppas is what let us catch up. And like idk, ap is just wacky now, a powerfist hasn’t crunched all the way through power armor in a few editions now.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I can see KFFs going to a 5++ for the unit the mek is attached to. Its stronger on a model to model level, but far more condensed when it can only apply to a single unit. So that kind of balances out things.

They already named the Iron Hands Character who totally didn't steal and ork KFF to claim that it is a holy relic to be one of the few auras left, I assume the KFF to be the same.

The KFF being an aura buff while the pain boy goes back to be a unit buff seems like a good way to give them different roles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Without ap choppas or aura buffs I feel like boyz will be forced to basically all have a warboss attached to the squad in order to deal damage?, like the durability of units has only seemed to go higher, the ap on the choppas is what let us catch up. And like idk, ap is just wacky now, a powerfist hasn’t crunched all the way through power armor in a few editions now.

Lethality all across the board is going down, so S4 AP0 might be a profile worth bringing again.

As this is my 5th edition change now, I have learned that even the smallest changes to the core rules always have had a massive impact on how boyz perform. Even the tiniest, nitty-gritty details of the assault phase might make a huge difference.

Just to name a few things:
- How does second row fighting work?
- How do charges, pile-ins and consolidates work?
- How well does cover protect low armor models?
- How much does terrain hinder movement?

Therefore any judgement should be withheld until we at least have a leak of the core rules. And even them, codex rules like the Waaagh! or stratagems might change everything.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Without ap choppas or aura buffs I feel like boyz will be forced to basically all have a warboss attached to the squad in order to deal damage?, like the durability of units has only seemed to go higher, the ap on the choppas is what let us catch up. And like idk, ap is just wacky now, a powerfist hasn’t crunched all the way through power armor in a few editions now.

If it remains as 1 Warboss per detachment (or equivalent), then I'm hoping for a Big Boss type character that can give buffs to our infantry units, otherwise we'll be held back massively unless Boyz get Buffz.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Without ap choppas or aura buffs I feel like boyz will be forced to basically all have a warboss attached to the squad in order to deal damage?, like the durability of units has only seemed to go higher, the ap on the choppas is what let us catch up. And like idk, ap is just wacky now, a powerfist hasn’t crunched all the way through power armor in a few editions now.

If it remains as 1 Warboss per detachment (or equivalent), then I'm hoping for a Big Boss type character that can give buffs to our infantry units, otherwise we'll be held back massively unless Boyz get Buffz.

It is a bit ironic given GW's obsession with making new Lieutenants variants and giving out equivalents to factions like SoB and Necrons but they've never given it to the very hiearchal Orks faction, where we could easily have had a Big Boss or Underboss as the in between Nob and Warboss. It could be an excuse to make a plastic WAAAGH Banner bearer that isn't just a Nob wielding it.

KFF going to attached-unit only would be weird since the Gorka/Wazbom KFFs would have to remain an aura.
And i agree we need more characters that are not just a Warboss. They have never (in the games anyway dunno bout books) indicated theres any real 'rank' for orks. Either youre a lowly boy, a tougher nob, or a freakin Warboss. Big jump there eh?
Being limited to 1 warboss is really annoying since all of our character boosting abilities were on bosses, or a KFF.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
KFF going to attached-unit only would be weird since the Gorka/Wazbom KFFs would have to remain an aura.
And i agree we need more characters that are not just a Warboss. They have never (in the games anyway dunno bout books) indicated theres any real 'rank' for orks. Either youre a lowly boy, a tougher nob, or a freakin Warboss. Big jump there eh?
Being limited to 1 warboss is really annoying since all of our character boosting abilities were on bosses, or a KFF.

It's possible that they might remove the Warboss limit in the new edition since it'll scale similar to AoS when it comes to how many characters you can take, but if they don't, we definitely need a non-Oddboy choice to help fill that gap. A new infantry model that has more flexibility in wargear choices would be sick, if we could have a Big Boss on Warbike or Big Boss with a Jump Pack that could be a dual kit with Zagstruk, so we're not character locked with only having Zagstruk being the only Jump pack character we have. It's unlikely but it would a good way for GW to keep adding to our range without having to do an overhaul like they did with the last release. I believe the main things that need to be replaced in resin are the tankbustas, Grotsnik, Badrukk, Zagstruk, Weirdboy and the Nob with WAAAGH! banner?

 Jidmah wrote:

Just to name a few things:
- How does second row fighting work?
- How do charges, pile-ins and consolidates work?
- How well does cover protect low armor models?
- How much does terrain hinder movement?

Therefore any judgement should be withheld until we at least have a leak of the core rules. And even them, codex rules like the Waaagh! or stratagems might change everything.

Some of the reasons i am not engaging in speculation, bar anything that GW confirms, I won't bother.. it's too soon. The jury is out until we know.

Weirdboy rules are up.



Da Jump and Eadbanger still exist (on the weirdboy at least), I imagine that the others will be spread out among the Kill Rig and the Wurrboy.


At the very least the Weirdboy looks like it will make using bigger blobs of boys somewhat viable in niche cases, even if just for sniping characters with powered up Eadbanger shots. You could also use it to try to chunk vehicles and monsters as you can get it up to S12 D7 with a full size unit.

Glad to see that they're making one of the ranged psychic powers somewhat meaningful and scaling with the number of models in the unit so there's some incentive to take larger units versus the MSU squads we take now. Curious to see if the Da Krunch or a Foot of Gork equivalent will survive in some capacity, though the fact that the Weirdboy hits on a 4+ BS might imply that to be a new racial standard for us.

 Grimskul wrote:
Glad to see that they're making one of the ranged psychic powers somewhat meaningful and scaling with the number of models in the unit so there's some incentive to take larger units versus the MSU squads we take now. Curious to see if the Da Krunch or a Foot of Gork equivalent will survive in some capacity, though the fact that the Weirdboy hits on a 4+ BS might imply that to be a new racial standard for us.

I'm expecting our BS of 5+ to stay, as that's kind of always been the Orks shtick. I would imagine the 4+ is indicative of it being a relatively easily cast psychic power, as opposed to a shooting attack.

I’m beyond happy with the change to the moral, that phase has been one of my pet peeves since 5th edition. I think this is a good way to balance across the board for every faction instead of it absolutely boning armies like ours and doing nothing for others.

Also love the change to the psychic phase. Best rule reveal day so far imo!

anyone else noticed he is saving on 5 instead of 6?

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Glad to see that they're making one of the ranged psychic powers somewhat meaningful and scaling with the number of models in the unit so there's some incentive to take larger units versus the MSU squads we take now. Curious to see if the Da Krunch or a Foot of Gork equivalent will survive in some capacity, though the fact that the Weirdboy hits on a 4+ BS might imply that to be a new racial standard for us.

I'm expecting our BS of 5+ to stay, as that's kind of always been the Orks shtick. I would imagine the 4+ is indicative of it being a relatively easily cast psychic power, as opposed to a shooting attack.

Agree - they've probably taken a learning from 7th where all the awesome witchfires were useless on a BS 5+ character.

It's also worth noting that he has the precision trait, which presumably allows you to target characters directly.

So turn one, you jump 30 boyz in your opponent's face and blow up their buff character before charging them.

Or you roll a one and the weirdboy explodes. Me like.

And he has a movement of 6, rather than 5

i probably would play the weirdboy with lootas/flashgits for the 1+ standstill and reposition. making it a strong shooting squad, i would need to know if we get anything for charge, like +1 or rerrols, since charge a 9 is like 11%?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
And he has a movement of 6, rather than 5

nice catch

Keep in mind that not every character will be able to join every unit.

That orks dont even run at movement 6 doesnt even make any sense anyway. Space marines wear heavy armor but run at 6. The average ork is, as far as im aware, as strong as a space marine, and they dont even wear armor.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Glad to see that they're making one of the ranged psychic powers somewhat meaningful and scaling with the number of models in the unit so there's some incentive to take larger units versus the MSU squads we take now. Curious to see if the Da Krunch or a Foot of Gork equivalent will survive in some capacity, though the fact that the Weirdboy hits on a 4+ BS might imply that to be a new racial standard for us.

I'm expecting our BS of 5+ to stay, as that's kind of always been the Orks shtick. I would imagine the 4+ is indicative of it being a relatively easily cast psychic power, as opposed to a shooting attack.

Should be worth noting that it used to be the tyranids BS as well, but they got a bump up across the board. So it's not unheard of.

And the weirdboy is interesting, not sure if headbanger is better or not though. A 4+ to hit then assuming the target has an invul (If they get to use that against powers) they could be one shot.

Absolutely stunned they actually buffed the weirdboy save! (kinda). Still think it should be a 5++ for weird Waaagh! powers protecting him.

cody.d. wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Glad to see that they're making one of the ranged psychic powers somewhat meaningful and scaling with the number of models in the unit so there's some incentive to take larger units versus the MSU squads we take now. Curious to see if the Da Krunch or a Foot of Gork equivalent will survive in some capacity, though the fact that the Weirdboy hits on a 4+ BS might imply that to be a new racial standard for us.

I'm expecting our BS of 5+ to stay, as that's kind of always been the Orks shtick. I would imagine the 4+ is indicative of it being a relatively easily cast psychic power, as opposed to a shooting attack.

Should be worth noting that it used to be the tyranids BS as well, but they got a bump up across the board. So it's not unheard of.

And the weirdboy is interesting, not sure if headbanger is better or not though. A 4+ to hit then assuming the target has an invul (If they get to use that against powers) they could be one shot.

I think headbanger is situationally better now. Assuming you have at least 15 boys with him, it's more reliably wounding things and doing flat damage rather than rolling for it.

As Jid said, Jumping a blob of 30 boys into position, trying to splat a character and then going off to cause 30 boys worth of carnage is going to be quite nice.