Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics

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**Beardedragon**

I just had my first game with my newly acquired stompa.

Made a Freebootas list with ghaz, the stompa, 3x1 scrapjets, a unit of 2 snazzwagons, 2 scorcha grot mega tanks and a dakka jet. Well with 3x10 grots and 5 lone kommandos as well.

I went up against world eaters and absolutely face rolled them. The stompa melted them pretty good. was a 92-59 victory to da Orks.

**Grimskul**

Beardedragon wrote:
I just had my first game with my newly acquired stompa.

Made a Freebootas list with ghaz, the stompa, 3x1 scrapjets, a unit of 2 snazzwagons, 2 scorcha grot mega tanks and a dakka jet. Well with 3x10 grots and 5 lone kommandos as well.

I went up against world eaters and absolutely face rolled them. The stompa melted them pretty good. was a 92-59 victory to da Orks.

Congrats on the crushing victory! How easy was it for you to get the +1 to hit proc for your stompa? Your list doesn't seem to be lacking in dakka, so I'm assuming you had a solid time picking off Berserker or Jakhal units to give your Stompa primed up for krumping.

**Beardedragon**

Grimskul wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
I just had my first game with my newly acquired stompa.

Made a Freebootas list with ghaz, the stompa, 3x1 scrapjets, a unit of 2 snazzwagons, 2 scorcha grot mega tanks and a dakka jet. Well with 3x10 grots and 5 lone kommandos as well.

I went up against world eaters and absolutely face rolled them. The stompa melted them pretty good. was a 92-59 victory to da Orks.

Congrats on the crushing victory! How easy was it for you to get the +1 to hit proc for your stompa? Your list doesn't seem to be lacking in dakka, so I'm assuming you had a solid time picking off Berserker or Jakhal units to give your Stompa primed up for krumping.

It was decently easy. He had no Jakhals but a lot of eightbound, exalted ones and some regular berzerkers. I just made sure that my front units were my Stompa (he did not have angron or a bloodthirster so i felt safe even on the frontline) 2 scorcha tanks and Ghaz.

To be fair, at no point did my stompa hit anything on anything better than a 5. During turn 1, only my stompa could see a unit of 5 eightbound, which were killed by the stompa.

During turn 2while i had procced the freebootas culture by murdering a unit, i used my stompa to attack a unit of either eightbound or exalted ones (dont really know which) which were hiding behind a forest, so i only hit on 5s there.

During turn 3, i shot a rhino behind the same forest containing 2 units of berzerkers, after my surviving grot tank had killed a unit of something (i say something because i dont always know what i attacked). So once again, the stompa hit on a 5. Although i was a bit lazy i could have hit on a 4, but i didnt feel like i needed it. It was just a Rhino after all, and i needed it popped so my Dakkajet could unload its guns in to the 2 units of Berzerkers.

Turn 4, i had decimated a decent chunk of his army so actually finding targets to get +1 to hit was a bit difficult

. but the stompa got +1 to hit and hit Lord invocatus (Lord Avocado of South America) who was, once again, behind a forest, yet had poked his head out to attack my dakkajet (which had 3 wounds left). So again, i was hitting on 5s.

Turn 5, there was nothing left within the Stompas line of sight. Being a stompa, mobility isnt really the strongest point, so i was somewhat confined to my own half of the map, although i could toe dip the middle objective, which i did.

While the stompa didnt hit on anything better than a 5 other units did. For instance my snazzwagons. Anyhow, i have played melee orks for ages, so im really rusty with properly playing shooty orks, especially freebootas, which actually have you thinking about what to do. I could have probably played more efficiently, but in the end, a victory is definitely a victory. The stompa was charged by, i believe, 6 or 7 Khorne berzerkers, which had been blood tithe buffed to the max, and dealt like 17 wounds or something to the stompa, and i had previously survived an onslaught from some eightbound, so sadly my stompa died by turn 4. Well technically it survived with 4 wounds, but i forgot Stompas dont get ramshackled, so it should have died by turn 4.

(not that it mattered, as he had only 6 khorne berzerkers and 1 chaos spawn left, and i had a grot mega tank, 3 scrapjets + a dakkajet and ghaz left).

He got very much tabled turn 5, although the game was effectively decided by turn 3-4 ish.

While the list was fun and all, i can see it being not super great. He had only 2 characters, so while i ran "Grind them down" and did 12 points on it, i also ran Greentide because i was hoping none of my grots would die (and they didnt, i got 10 points on it) but i also ran Good bits.

I would effectively get no points on either greentide or good bitz if my grots had died to another enemy with actual shooting. Its really crushing how difficult it is to pick secondaries for a shooty ork army. If you take things like good bits and greentide out of the equation, what are you left with? If they have 3 characters, maybe i would swap Greentide for assassinate, but i couldnt this time. And no battlefield supremacy secondaries? If they have decent shooting or shoots outside line of sight, that would take Greentide off the table. Because how would i run engage on all fronts? At least my army isnt made for it. Everything really falls and rises on the survivability of 30 grots. (or at least on 20 of em).

Shooty ork lists are almost entirely forced in to killing games, unless you deem that you can keep at least 20 grots alive, for good bits, and 2 quarters full of 10 grots each.

But i guess all of that doesnt really matter. I made a fun stompa list (though still good), not a competitive one. I dont think a competitive stompa list really exist. Although i am in the process of trying to make, as competitive of a stompa list as possible. To that end, i dont know if the best way to pair a stompa is freebootas, or Goffs. Shooting focus, or Melee. I have also made a stompa list with 3 rigs full of snaggaboys.. I have yet to try it. I have a lot of variants really.

**Jidmah**

Good and bad new for us: https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-40k/10th-edition-gameplay-demo

+ Blast is now +1 shot per 5 models.
+ Desperate Escape forces battle-shocked units to essentially take attrition tests when falling back, making it super unattractive for units with expensive models to fall back just to shoot the charger.
o Overwatch is still once per turn stratagem, but can be used during the enemy movement phase. Good for orks as overwatch is a second shooting phase to many of our shooting units, bad for orks because moving close to flamers will end horribly.
- Engagement range has shrunken once again. First row needs base contact to an enemy, second row needs base contact to first row.
- Consolidate moves only happen when the enemy is wiped out and only if it takes you into combat or onto an objective.

**RedNoak**

blast and engagement range will be a huge problem in 10th for orks :/

especially the need to be in base contact really hampers my enthusiasm
good for elite infantry like SM... horror for hordes and 32mm bois... also fitting big based models into CC (like the rigga, buggies or squigbosses) will be a chore and lots of micromanagment when charging alongside infantry

**Jidmah**

I agree on engagement range, but I don't see the new blast rules as a big problem. Avoiding blast rules at list building stage has become harder for everyone, so every rokkit we bring (assuming it stays d3 blast), is now +1 shots against pretty much every infantry squad. Marines no longer get a free pass.

On the flip side, getting hit by d6+2 shots instead of flat 6 every time you have more than 10 models is roughly equivalent, but any gun that went from 2d6, 3d6, 4d6 to flat 12, 18 or 24 is now a lot less scary.
In that context, it's also worth noting that grenades are gone as weapons, and most blasts will be hit by a reduction of AP while orks are likely to move to 5+ armor.

So a rogal dorn tank or a knight equipped with a twin battlecannon today will hit a unit of 20 ork boyz in cover for 12 attacks, 9 hits, 6 wounds, 6 dead. With the revealed rules, it's 2d6+4 = 11 attacks, 8.66 hits, 4.88 wounds, 4 dead.

Of course, the strength of battlecannons might jump to 10 or higher, but that's still just 5 dead, one less than we have now.

So while the blast rules might sound like they are bad news for orks, in reality it's pretty much a sidegrade against hordes compared to 9th.
The only thing I'm worried about is small blasts. But I assume there is something in place to prevent weapons like plasma cannon from more than doubling its shots against horde units.

**flaming tadpole**

I was looking forward to finally running some 30 man blobs again, but those blast and engagement range rules pretty much kill that idea. Why does GW hate hordes so much.

**RedNoak**

@jidmah
still, a 30 unit of boyz being hit by d6 + 6 hits by every blast weapon seems kinda scary, but i get your point.

i think the need for b2b contact in mellee is there to prevent any shenenigans while positioning models for CC... still kinda hurts big units alot!

btw new rules "leaks" from the demo games (all unconfirmed)
- overwatch still a strat, max 24" range
- battleshocked brings OC value to 0
- when falling back while battleshocked (in CC) roll d6 for every model on a 1-2 its removed
- charges and pile in moves must be made in a straight line to closest point of enemy base

**Jidmah**

RedNoak wrote:
@jidmah
still, a 30 unit of boyz being hit by d6 + 6 hits by every blast weapon seems kinda scary, but i get your point.

i think the need for b2b contact in mellee is there to prevent any shenenigans while positioning models for CC... still kinda hurts big units alot!

btw new rules "leaks" from the demo games (all unconfirmed)
- overwatch still a strat, max 24" range
- battleshocked brings OC value to 0 <--- confirmed
- when falling back while battleshocked (in CC) roll d6 for every model on a 1-2 its removed <--- confirmed
- charges and pile in moves must be made in a straight line to closest point of enemy base

Some additional things I just read:
- One guy said blast is actually extra HITS not extra SHOTS which makes my math above obsolete (but still roughly the same ballpark). On the other hand, one free auto-hit when shooting any Kustom-Mega weapons at marines. Hmm.
- cannot mix characters from different sub-factions
- charge is roll range first, then pick targets like AoS

**JNAProductions**

Something to note is that something like a Wyvern (4d6 shots right now) might go to four weapons of 1d6 each, with each weapon having Blast. So it'd quadruple-dip on the Blast rule.

This is NOT something I've seen or heard rumoured, this is purely me guessing, by the way.

**Jidmah**

JNAProductions wrote:
Something to note is that something like a Wyvern (4d6 shots right now) might go to four weapons of 1d6 each, with each weapon having Blast. So it'd quadruple-dip on the Blast rule.

This is NOT something I've seen or heard rumoured, this is purely me guessing, by the way.

There is literally no reason to believe that.

**tneva82**

JNAProductions wrote:
Something to note is that something like a Wyvern (4d6 shots right now) might go to four weapons of 1d6 each, with each weapon having Blast. So it'd quadruple-dip on the Blast rule.

This is NOT something I've seen or heard rumoured, this is purely me guessing, by the way.

Uuh based on what? There's been no weapon profile that does anything similar. Rather we have seen reduced shots.

Much more likely imo it goes to 2d6 twinlinked.

**JNAProductions**

Which is why I said it’s not based on anything other than guesswork.
It’d be the simplest way of making some weapons more blast than others-so yeah, GW probably would just make a special rule instead of that.

**Grimskul**

Yeah, it feels like what we've seen on the land raider they're more likely to compress profiles that had excess shots than split them even further.

Overall, very interested to see what the faction focus for Orks will reveal for us regarding what WAAAGH! does and the weapon stats for Rokkit Launchas (AP-2 seems likely now since Lascannons and Meltas didn't change) and Power Klaws.

Would be nice if they had something along the side of "green tide" for Ork infantry to be able to fight in 3 ranks or give us better consolidation rules to make hordes more palatable.

**EightFoldPath**

I would like to see the Blast rule written down rather than receive reports of it via smoke signals.

Question 1 is do you get +1 for the first five models or +0 for the first five.

Question 2 is do you get +1 per dice or +1 per gun, as that is where Blast in 9th went wrong with 6~10 model units, it was a massive upgrade on d3 and zero upgrade on 4d6.

Similarly, units with single dice blast guns will be getting crazy numbers compared to tanks with a multi-dice blast gun.

Aa Missile Launcher Havoc squad in 9th is shooting 24 frag missiles into a squad of 30 Boyz, but could be shooting 4d6+30 (44) in 10th.

Or a Super Frag Desolation squad is shooting 15 Castellan and 30 Super Frag in 9th into 30 Boyz but will be shooting 5d3+30 (40) Castellan and 5d3+45 Super Frag (55) for 95 shots total on average.

**tneva82**

JNAProductions wrote:
Which is why I said it’s not based on anything other than guesswork.
It’d be the simplest way of making some weapons more blast than others-so yeah, GW probably would just make a special rule instead of that.

Why you think weapons are going to be more blast when trend so far been less shots?

2d6 twin linked lot more likely for less shots but higher to wound rate for overall less damage output.

**Jidmah**

EightFoldPath wrote:
I would like to see the Blast rule written down rather than receive reports of it via smoke signals.

Question 1 is do you get +1 for the first five models or +0 for the first five.

Multiple people confirmed that it's +1 for the first five.

Question 2 is do you get +1 per dice or +1 per gun, as that is where Blast in 9th went wrong with 6~10 model units, it was a massive upgrade on d3 and zero upgrade on 4d6.

Not as clear as there was no 2d6 blast weapon in the demo games, but it seems like +1 per dice is unlikely.

Aa Missile Launcher Havoc squad in 9th is shooting 24 frag missiles into a squad of 30 Boyz, but could be shooting 4d6+30 (44) in 10th.

That would still result just in 8-9 casualties, assuming no cover.

I also have feeling that squads of 30 boyz might not even be possible, see daemons codex. Historically, 30 boyz were only taken in edition where you could stack buffs on them, and with engagement range shrinking, it will be strictly inferior to running multiple, smaller squads anyways.

Or a Super Frag Desolation squad is shooting 15 Castellan and 30 Super Frag in 9th into 30 Boyz but will be shooting 5d3+30 (40) Castellan and 5d3+45 Super Frag (55) for 95 shots total on average.

d3 weapons will break the game if unchanged. A squad of tank bustas shooting 15 extra rokkits into a squad of terminators? Not going to happen.
My assumtion is that all those weapons will either not get the blast rule or drop to 1 shot.

**RedNoak**

Oh worry not mighty jidmah... Rokkits will be 1 shot S8 ap -1, if GW feels generous the d3 will remain... The only keyword I expect is dumbshackle: each time a 1 is rolled, you must put the tip of a furried spiked ork boy helmet between your fingernail and SQUEEZ, ALL WHILE SHOUTING WHAAAAAGH! than you will have the honour of being removed from play by a new model of the venerable Rubicon lieutenant Nr 44.

Oh boy feels good to be back for a new edition

**Tomsug**

I have 3 questions:

1. Why people moan about “I cannot take my 30 boyz squad anymore” now or for 10th?

Now, you can take up to 12 troops = 120 boyz without the morale / movement / engagement issue.
10th seems to be like “no more than 6 units of same BATTLELINE” = 6xBoyz and 6x Snaggaboyz = 120 “boyz”.

It used to be 90…

We can play a green tide. No problem. Or do I miss something?

2. Does anybody give it a try?

3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?

**cody.d.**

So we've seen the datasheets for big G and big A and both have a trio of abilities they can choose from. Gives a bit of flexibility rather than just one flat aura all the time.

I'm really hoping Ghaz does likewise, it'd be awesome to get some representing his ability to use the different tribes/klans rather than just goffs. One that buffs speedfreeks, one that dakka, movement or sneakiness that sorta thing.

**Afrodactyl**

cody.d. wrote:
So we've seen the datasheets for big G and big A and both have a trio of abilities they can choose from. Gives a bit of flexibility rather than just one flat aura all the time.

I'm really hoping Ghaz does likewise, it'd be awesome to get some representing his ability to use the different tribes/klans rather than just goffs. One that buffs speedfreeks, one that dakka, movement or sneakiness that sorta thing.

Yeah, I'm hoping Ghaz has a "uniting the klans" kind of aura.

One for a melee buff, one for a dakka buff, one for a movement/morale buff.

**Jidmah**

Tomsug wrote:
3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?

Traditionally, I only ever created a new one after the new edition dropped. Otherwise the first few pages people see for the rest of the edition are just speculation.

Considering how unlikely any huge surprises in tactics and list building are in the next month, I'd just use this thread for any 10th edition talk.

That said, I'm not sure I'm going to create a new thread, and if I do, it will absolutely be bare minimum. No rainbow tables, no links to lists.

For one, it's a huge amount of work to maintain those and it has to be redone after each balance update to be worth anything. I'm just not willing to spend the time to generate this amount of content.

Secondly, dakka outside of the ork community has become a toxic pool of negativity that actively reduces my enjoyment of the hobby. Reading and participating with online content has been a big part of the hobby for me, but in the last few years reading and contributing on dakka has ruined my mood on otherwise good days and made bad days worse. I forced myself to take a break and look for other communities. It was a real eye-opener to find that every single other community - even 4chan/tg/ - is less toxic that dakka N&R and 40k general.
My general mood has been improving as a result, and is improving more the less I engage with dakka. Literally the only reason I'm still checking this forum are you guys, I very much value the ork community here, and it's one of the best ones around.

Warning, rant:

Spoiler:

TL;DR: I have no big interest in investing time into something that makes dakka a more attractive place for 40k players. In its current state I'd rather see it wither and die, hoping this ork community would then move somewhere else.

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
Tomsug wrote:
3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?

Traditionally, I only ever created a new one after the new edition dropped. Otherwise the first few pages people see for the rest of the edition are just speculation.

Considering how unlikely any huge surprises in tactics and list building are in the next month, I'd just use this thread for any 10th edition talk.

That said, I'm not sure I'm going to create a new thread, and if I do, it will absolutely be bare minimum. No rainbow tables, no links to lists.

For one, it's a huge amount of work to maintain those and it has to be redone after each balance update to be worth anything. I'm just not willing to spend the time to generate this amount of content.

Secondly, dakka outside of the ork community has become a toxic pool of negativity that actively reduces my enjoyment of the hobby. Reading and participating with online content has been a big part of the hobby for me, but in the last few years reading and contributing on dakka has ruined my mood on otherwise good days and made bad days worse. I forced myself to take a break and look for other communities. It was a real eye-opener to find that every single other community - even 4chan/tg/ - is less toxic that dakka N&R and 40k general.
My general mood has been improving as a result, and is improving more the less I engage with dakka. Literally the only reason I'm still checking this forum are you guys, I very much value the ork community here, and it's one of the best ones around.

Warning, rant:

Spoiler:

The issues I have with dakka are not people with strong opinions that I regularly disagree with like Semper or Daedalus.or Canadian 5th. Arguing and discussing is what forums are for, what I'm here for.

The people who turn this forum into a toxic maelstrom are divided into three groups: For one, all those tinfoils heads who never get tired to interpret every single thing GW does as some sort of evil conspiracy to con people out of their hard earned pocket money and are relentlessly posting this into every single thread after every single post. Everyone knows GW is doing this to get our money, but not everything they do is a ploy. Nothing they write ever adds any value to any discussion.

Then there is are people who just unreasonable hate everything, and are being donkey-caves to everyone who dares enjoy anything about the hobby. These people never get tired telling everyone how awesome the game was 20+ years ago, despite having no real experience with any modern editions. They regularly lie about how much they play, while obviously getting the most basic rules interactions wrong and whining about edge cases which allegedly ruin the game, but rarely ever matter in real life. They blame GW and everyone else for not being able to find games in their preferred edition, kind of like incels blame women for not being able to find a partner when the real issue is that they are just being donkey-caves.
Last are people who are just antagonistic at all costs. There are some people who will literally flip their opinion three times a week just to pick a fight with other people. They pop into every thread and take a stance opposite of the majority, just to then start insulting anyone defending their opinion and derailing the thread in the process.

Naturally, I have tried battling these people with the ignore function. Despite my list having grown fourfold in the last years compared to the people I put on ignore during the 10+ years before that, it doesn't work. Entire pages have turned invisible due to the high post rates of those toxic elements, and since many of them intentionally trigger others posters you can't really escape them as you are forced to scroll past quotes of their posts and discussions spawned by them.

Of course, these kind of things should (IMO) be policed by mods. Almost all of them have turned inactive, and the few that remain are unable and/or unwilling to properly moderate the 40k community. Instead they adhere to forum rules which have been written when mobile phones were a new thing, youtube and facebook didn't exist and people actually cared about downloading images larger than a few KB.
In a time when posters here on dakka posted dozens of racist attacks, I got a multi-day ban and a warning for responding to a post in orkspeak and for responding to a post with a picture with text on it instead of writing the same text. The racist posters are still around, by way, clearly ork speak and memes are a bigger issue than outright racism. Here on dakka, being a complete donkey-cave to others is perfectly fine to mods as long as you possess the language skills to thinly veil those attacks with flowery words.
That is, assuming the rules are enforced at all. Some people have gotten away with shitposting idiotic interpretations of rules all over YMDC for years now, regularly breaking the rules which have been pinned to the top of the very forum - not only killing off any resemblance any community there, but also diminishing its use as a resource for rules questions. During 5th the whole internet pointed to YMDC for unclear rules, today new players are warned to not asking questions on dakka because you always get bad answers.

Speaking of outdated. This forum software does not work well, adheres to almost no moderns standards, is bugged and slow as feth. Most people can't properly handle quotes and spoilers without multiple edits, uploading pictures to different services is faster than uploading to dakka itself, search is worthless, no WYSIWYG editor, and the extra empty pages bug that Legoburner is unable to fix for whatever reason is rampant in almost every thread longer than 10 pages. And let's not get started with how dakka looks on phones.
Eventually this forum WILL need to update to a new software. Drawing out the update will just increase the pain when that day comes.
If you are no longer interested in maintaining this community, hand it over to someone who is. Or get people on board who help you. There are dozens of developers here on dakka who would gladly help out.

/rant over

TL;DR: I have no big interest in investing time into something that makes dakka a more attractive place for 40k players. In its current state I'd rather see it wither and die, hoping this ork community would then move somewhere else.

No worries man, I get you regarding some of the issues plaguing Dakka and it's definitely gotten more negative as a whole I would say than I remember it being when I first joined. I think it's also hard to justify a new thread with the same level of depth and overview of all the units in the first post because of how quickly the points updates and rules change now. Between chapter approved and now the balance dataslate, it's no longer a mostly one and done deal when you create it, it becomes something you have to painstakingly edit over the course of a year. Whereas before we were lucky to get an FAQ that concerned us in 6 months, now it feels like it's incredibly hard to keep up with all the changes if you don't use wahapedia or some other form of 3rd party to learn about updates.

It'll also change significantly because we'll be getting a codex in a year or so based on the codex timeline they've given us, so that gives even less incentive to create something so comprehensive when it's going to be upended in such a short amount of time anyways.

I'm sad the old DA WAAAGH! Forum is dead and buried as it was a bit of a grognard pit sometimes but you had some legitimately great content (fan created or otherwise) and users there that had a clear passion for Orks and understood how we ticked. If anyone is ever interested in a spiritual successor to that or the Ork thread here via discord or another forum do give me a holler, since I feel like half the time we have to bat away meta-chasers that hate Orks doing well competitively once we leave this thread.

**Beardedragon**

The problem for me is, i dont know where else i should find my ork knowledge.

I have very limited amounts of posts other places than this ork forum thread (i have a few rules threads here and there thats about it), and this is where i go to spill my head open with ideas and get inspiration. And also ork interactions in case im confused about something.

If this forum isnt available i dont know where i should get that inspiration.

The only other place i can think of is the Ork group on facebook and half of those respond with: More dakka! or something equally idiotic that i didnt ask for, or just blatantly dont know what the F they are talking about. The facebook group is definitely not the place for competitive questions. This place is.

Where does one lonely ork go if this group dies

**gungo**

I only use the ork thread.. rarely check Dakka as it doesn’t have a lot of new info.. but I do like the sub forum and class specific discussion, but even that is intermittent. Most quarterly updates contain only minor changes for us anyway.. so I just look at warhammer competitive Reddit on new changes and competitive info. Some goonhammer.

**Afrodactyl**

Thats a real shame Jidmah, and it will be a bit hit for our little Waaagh we have here should you leave Dakka for good. But I also agree with a lot of what youve said, especially when it comes to the behaviour of certain individuals that lurk certain parts of this forum.

Hopefully we'll find a new home once Dakka fully falls apart to keep threads like this one going.

With regards to a new thread; I think the best way to approach it would be to keep things simple after the index comes out and we keep spitballing ideas in here, then once the new codex is out we can pick it apart here as a community and compile everything here for one of us to volunteer to put everything together in a new thread. Takes the strain off of the individual that way.

That's obviously quite a way away, so I'm sure someone here will take up the task when the time comes.

**Forceride**

Jidmah wrote:
Tomsug wrote:
3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?

Traditionally, I only ever created a new one after the new edition dropped. Otherwise the first few pages people see for the rest of the edition are just speculation.

Considering how unlikely any huge surprises in tactics and list building are in the next month, I'd just use this thread for any 10th edition talk.

That said, I'm not sure I'm going to create a new thread, and if I do, it will absolutely be bare minimum. No rainbow tables, no links to lists.

For one, it's a huge amount of work to maintain those and it has to be redone after each balance update to be worth anything. I'm just not willing to spend the time to generate this amount of content.

Secondly, dakka outside of the ork community has become a toxic pool of negativity that actively reduces my enjoyment of the hobby. Reading and participating with online content has been a big part of the hobby for me, but in the last few years reading and contributing on dakka has ruined my mood on otherwise good days and made bad days worse. I forced myself to take a break and look for other communities. It was a real eye-opener to find that every single other community - even 4chan/tg/ - is less toxic that dakka N&R and 40k general.
My general mood has been improving as a result, and is improving more the less I engage with dakka. Literally the only reason I'm still checking this forum are you guys, I very much value the ork community here, and it's one of the best ones around.

Warning, rant:

Spoiler:

The issues I have with dakka are not people with strong opinions that I regularly disagree with like Semper or Daedalus.or Canadian 5th. Arguing and discussing is what forums are for, what I'm here for.

The people who turn this forum into a toxic maelstrom are divided into three groups: For one, all those tinfoils heads who never get tired to interpret every single thing GW does as some sort of evil conspiracy to con people out of their hard earned pocket money and are relentlessly posting this into every single thread after every single post. Everyone knows GW is doing this to get our money, but not everything they do is a ploy. Nothing they write ever adds any value to any discussion.

Then there is are people who just unreasonable hate everything, and are being donkey-caves to everyone who dares enjoy anything about the hobby. These people never get tired telling everyone how awesome the game was 20+ years ago, despite having no real experience with any modern editions. They regularly lie about how much they play, while obviously getting the most basic rules interactions wrong and whining about edge cases which allegedly ruin the game, but rarely ever matter in real life. They blame GW and everyone else for not being able to find games in their preferred edition, kind of like incels blame women for not being able to find a partner when the real issue is that they are just being donkey-caves.
Last are people who are just antagonistic at all costs. There are some people who will literally flip their opinion three times a week just to pick a fight with other people. They pop into every thread and take a stance opposite of the majority, just to then start insulting anyone defending their opinion and derailing the thread in the process.

Naturally, I have tried battling these people with the ignore function. Despite my list having grown fourfold in the last years compared to the people I put on ignore during the 10+ years before that, it doesn't work. Entire pages have turned invisible due to the high post rates of those toxic elements, and since many of them intentionally trigger others posters you can't really escape them as you are forced to scroll past quotes of their posts and discussions spawned by them.

Of course, these kind of things should (IMO) be policed by mods. Almost all of them have turned inactive, and the few that remain are unable and/or unwilling to properly moderate the 40k community. Instead they adhere to forum rules which have been written when mobile phones were a new thing, youtube and facebook didn't exist and people actually cared about downloading images larger than a few KB.
In a time when posters here on dakka posted dozens of racist attacks, I got a multi-day ban and a warning for responding to a post in orkspeak and for responding to a post with a picture with text on it instead of writing the same text. The racist posters are still around, by way, clearly ork speak and memes are a bigger issue than outright racism. Here on dakka, being a complete donkey-cave to others is perfectly fine to mods as long as you possess the language skills to thinly veil those attacks with flowery words.
That is, assuming the rules are enforced at all. Some people have gotten away with shitposting idiotic interpretations of rules all over YMDC for years now, regularly breaking the rules which have been pinned to the top of the very forum - not only killing off any resemblance any community there, but also diminishing its use as a resource for rules questions. During 5th the whole internet pointed to YMDC for unclear rules, today new players are warned to not asking questions on dakka because you always get bad answers.

Speaking of outdated. This forum software does not work well, adheres to almost no moderns standards, is bugged and slow as feth. Most people can't properly handle quotes and spoilers without multiple edits, uploading pictures to different services is faster than uploading to dakka itself, search is worthless, no WYSIWYG editor, and the extra empty pages bug that Legoburner is unable to fix for whatever reason is rampant in almost every thread longer than 10 pages. And let's not get started with how dakka looks on phones.
Eventually this forum WILL need to update to a new software. Drawing out the update will just increase the pain when that day comes.
If you are no longer interested in maintaining this community, hand it over to someone who is. Or get people on board who help you. There are dozens of developers here on dakka who would gladly help out.

/rant over

TL;DR: I have no big interest in investing time into something that makes dakka a more attractive place for 40k players. In its current state I'd rather see it wither and die, hoping this ork community would then move somewhere else.

That's a lot to take in, did not even know things with dakka were going that way..

I am in the same spot as Beardedragon, this is the best spot to read both theories and to speak about ork things. If it goes i have no idea where to go. It's unfortunate that in every hobby/game there are always the thickos that just can't go away. Honestly, i still enjoy 40k, and i will keep playing it, in the end i just want to have fun and bash things with my orks.

What ever happens, happens and i will keep trying to enjoy the game/hobby. Doomers be damned. Jidmah i don't know you much but to me you sound like a fine and balanced player trying to just enjoy your game. Try to not let those who take enjoyment from ruining your fun to win.All they need is for you to throw the towel.

I do agree the forum needs a system check, some updates and little code tweaks, i work in the area and even i can tell at first glance with out my professional eye.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another not, Lone operative as shown is completely broken.

Look out sir with out 3 model requirement or closest model.

**Boosykes**

Hmm I like dakka. Way too much toxic positivity on places like reddit. Say anything even remotely critical even if it just musing over a rumor or new tidbit for the new edition and I see those folks donvoted into oblivion.

Personally I don't have a reddit account but I scroll it from time to time around new edition drops. Which place is better than dakka? I read bolter and chain sword it's not bad but I feel the mods are too heavy handed and have too many rules especially regarding leaked info.

Personally I really like that dakka allows real discussions unfortunately I think a lot of people take someone disagreeing with them as some sort of slight or attack.

I have enjoyed your ork threads Jidmah and I like your take on orks in general. Would be a shame to see you go but if you do I wish you well.

**Jidmah**

Grimskul wrote:I'm sad the old DA WAAAGH! Forum is dead and buried as it was a bit of a grognard pit sometimes but you had some legitimately great content (fan created or otherwise) and users there that had a clear passion for Orks and understood how we ticked. If anyone is ever interested in a spiritual successor to that or the Ork thread here via discord or another forum do give me a holler, since I feel like half the time we have to bat away meta-chasers that hate Orks doing well competitively once we leave this thread.

Heh, ironically I joined dakka and tried to get a community of "competitive"(which meant a very different thing back then) ork players running here because I was annoyed of the horrible advice I got on Da Waaagh! and its "casual at any cost, avoid playing to win"-mentality when I still tried to make sense of orks and 40k

Response to Boosykes (more rant):

Spoiler:

Boosykes wrote:
Hmm I like dakka. Way too much toxic positivity on places like reddit. Say anything even remotely critical even if it just musing over a rumor or new tidbit for the new edition and I see those folks donvoted into oblivion.

As someone who has started to post on reddit regularly because of the reasons outlined earlier, I can assure you that this absolutely is an urban myth - usually spread by the very same problematic elements which make dakka the shithole it is. The most common reason to get multiple downvotes are either when you are objectively being wrong or being a dick, so I guess one could take educated guesses why so many dakka regulars hate reddit.
I don't think I have single comment with less than 0 karma despite me posting the very same type of comments I would have posted on dakka. Constructive criticism is well received on almost all larger 40k subs. Whining, conspiracy theories and illogical arguments are not.

There also is no such thing as toxic positivity, period.

Personally I don't have a reddit account but I scroll it from time to time around new edition drops. Which place is better than dakka? I read bolter and chain sword it's not bad but I feel the mods are too heavy handed and have too many rules especially regarding leaked info.

Dakka has become pretty terrible for news. For some releases dakka lagged behind for days, some releases even got missed completely. If it weren't for Tsagualsa putting insane effort into maintaining the 10th edition news thread, I wouldn't bother with reading dakka for news at all.

Personally I really like that dakka allows real discussions unfortunately I think a lot of people take someone disagreeing with them as some sort of slight or attack.

It really doesn't. With no discussion culture being enforced, people who outright reject any opinion but their own while also posting up to three times per minute have taken over almost all discussions on dakka. Despite being a vocal minority (the worst offenders are just ~10 people), they dominate every thread in every sub-forum they are active in.

Beardedragon wrote:The problem for me is, i dont know where else i should find my ork knowledge.

I have very limited amounts of posts other places than this ork forum thread (i have a few rules threads here and there thats about it), and this is where i go to spill my head open with ideas and get inspiration. And also ork interactions in case im confused about something.

If this forum isnt available i dont know where i should get that inspiration.

The only other place i can think of is the Ork group on facebook and half of those respond with: More dakka! or something equally idiotic that i didnt ask for, or just blatantly dont know what the F they are talking about. The facebook group is definitely not the place for competitive questions. This place is.

Where does one lonely ork go if this group dies

gungo wrote:I only use the ork thread.. rarely check Dakka as it doesn’t have a lot of new info.. but I do like the sub forum and class specific discussion, but even that is intermittent. Most quarterly updates contain only minor changes for us anyway.. so I just look at warhammer competitive Reddit on new changes and competitive info. Some goonhammer.

Afrodactyl wrote:Thats a real shame Jidmah, and it will be a bit hit for our little Waaagh we have here should you leave Dakka for good. But I also agree with a lot of what youve said, especially when it comes to the behaviour of certain individuals that lurk certain parts of this forum.

Hopefully we'll find a new home once Dakka fully falls apart to keep threads like this one going.

Forceride wrote:That's a lot to take in, did not even know things with dakka were going that way..

I am in the same spot as Beardedragon, this is the best spot to read both theories and to speak about ork things. If it goes i have no idea where to go. It's unfortunate that in every hobby/game there are always the thickos that just can't go away. Honestly, i still enjoy 40k, and i will keep playing it, in the end i just want to have fun and bash things with my orks.

What ever happens, happens and i will keep trying to enjoy the game/hobby. Doomers be damned. Jidmah i don't know you much but to me you sound like a fine and balanced player trying to just enjoy your game. Try to not let those who take enjoyment from ruining your fun to win.All they need is for you to throw the towel.

Boosykes wrote:I have enjoyed your ork threads Jidmah and I like your take on orks in general. Would be a shame to see you go but if you do I wish you well.

Thanks for the kind words everyone

I'm glad to read that you see as much value in this community of orks as I do. I think for now I can promise to raise the Waaagh! banner at least once more for the 10th edition index, until then lets focus on orks, and not on my problems with people on the internet. You know what happens to your head when to listen too long to the ramblings of a weird boy.

**Afrodactyl**

Forceride wrote:

On another not, Lone operative as shown is completely broken.

Look out sir with out 3 model requirement or closest model.

Where's the Lone Operative news come from? I haven't seen a WarCom article on it, and I've given up on the cesspit that is the 10th news discussion thread on general.

If you could post a screenshot or link it would be really appreciated.