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It's from the characters article a while back:

Not all characters possess the Leader ability, however. Independent sorts may instead have the Lone Operative ability, which means that they can’t be targeted by ranged attacks unless the attacker is within 12″. This potent defensive trait is common among the stealthier specialists of the 41st Millennium, such as Vindicare Assassins or Commander Shadowsun.

Some army leaders can gain it from being close to infantry:


I think it has the potential to be broken if it is put on the wrong units, but unlike with LoS! you can just try to get into 12" and blast someone like Gulliman with a scrap jet or wazzbom, no matter how many units surround him.
Most characters can also no longer hide behind a single dread or transport.

I also very much look forward to Thrakka being untargetable as long as there is 12" worth of orks around him in every direction. I hope these changes will result in our character at least lasting into the late game instead of dying first.

Thanks for that, I clearly glossed over it!

I would imagine Ghaz will get the same rule as Guilliman, as his current defensive profile is vastly different to pretty much everything in the book that's not a vehicle.

Warbosses will probably just get the "same armour type" leader rule. So Megaboss with MANz, etc.

With the rumours that some FW stuff might be moving to plastic, so I'm quietly hopeful for a rebirth of the brick of proper biker Nobs led by a bikerboss.

Well, honestly I don' t read anything outside the ork forums there on dakka

Bare minimum founded after 10th drop to clear it from the rumours will be great. I think it is a fine communitiy there, one more wow would be nice . The meta change much faster than used to be imho so keep your table up to date should be a huge amount of work.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Thanks for that, I clearly glossed over it!

I would imagine Ghaz will get the same rule as Guilliman, as his current defensive profile is vastly different to pretty much everything in the book that's not a vehicle.

Warbosses will probably just get the "same armour type" leader rule. So Megaboss with MANz, etc.

It needs to work with the combat patrol though, so most likely it can lead any infantry plus MANz while the regular warboss is just regular infantry and beastbosses are limited to leading squigs/beastsnaggas.

I'm curious what they will do with the wartrike.

Maybe they might get the within 3" treatment but with vehicles.

So for the faction focus, what do we think we're going to get?

Looking at a few of them so far, there's:

Army rules
Unit spotlight infantry (seems to be the +1 version of basic infantry where possible, like Intercessors, Cadian shock troops, etc)
Unit spotlight vehicle
Unit spotlight special character (but not always, the AM one didn't spotlight Lord Solar)
Weapon spotlight (a few of these)
Stratagem spotlight

I reckon we'll get;
Beast Snagga Boys
Stompa
Possibly Ghaz as he's a Bobby G/Abaddon equivalent
Shokk Attack Gun
Rokkit Launcha
Careen or a Green Tide strat

Looking at the daemons FF, we now know you select one and only one weapon to fight melee with unless it has the "Extra Attacks" keyword.

I would imagine we're going to get this rule for choppas.

Is it just me, or does it seem like close combat has been cranked to eleven on every single dedicated close combat model we have seen so far?

Is this to compensate for it being harder to get into a position where you actually will be allowed to fight?

 Jidmah wrote:
Is it just me, or does it seem like close combat has been cranked to eleven on every single dedicated close combat model we have seen so far?

Is this to compensate for it being harder to get into a position where you actually will be allowed to fight?

Points cost is of course going to be a factor, but lets take the base slanessh greater demon cause it's not a named character. Assuming it's always equipped with a witstealer sword and one of the other options that's 10 attacks with ap2 and damage 3. Termies being the ideal targets roughly 9 hits, maybe 8 or 7 wounds depending on the wounding chart, AP 2 does get you to that 4++ so maybe 4 termies would drop. Seems about right for a 300-400pt model.

And that could be a lot worse if you take enough wounds off the demon or if the wound chart has some differences. (which I'd bet money on)

I reckon a few puzzle pieces are still missing here.

 Jidmah wrote:
Is it just me, or does it seem like close combat has been cranked to eleven on every single dedicated close combat model we have seen so far?

Is this to compensate for it being harder to get into a position where you actually will be allowed to fight?

It seems to me they limit the number and effectivity of the strategems, psychic powers, extra rules etc + they limited the options how to get in CC. To make it more “you play what you have on datasheet and don' t mess around” etc.

So yes, pumping up the CC could be a logical next step to keep CC effective vs. shooting.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Looking at the daemons FF, we now know you select one and only one weapon to fight melee with unless it has the "Extra Attacks" keyword.

I would imagine we're going to get this rule for choppas.

I would not believe that since it also mentions you cannot use other rules to alter it's number of attacks profile, it's more similar to squig boys or beast boss bite in that you only make x amount attacks. What i can see is the choppa extra attacks being rolled into the weapon attacks.. honestly it would make things also simpler


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this is me guessing, but i am currently seeing a trend with most horde armies where we either recover units or models destroyed. I suspect this is the new design for horde where casualties do not matter. I fear battle shock will be far more important for horde armies then casualties. Necrons, nids and daemons all have rules supporting this, still, it's just a suspicion.

The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.

They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.

 Jidmah wrote:
The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.

They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.

I think the 3 attacks on the chainsword is because it can usually only be taken by the Sister Superior, who in the past had 2 attacks base and the chainsword gave an extra attack, so it adds up to the 3 you see on the new datasheet. So chances are that boyz will have 3 attacks base with choppas still.

Went in with another Stompa list against yet another World Eaters list.

Was a pretty good win, we stopped at turn like 4 because my opponent got slapped and i dont know how many points he would have gotten, probably around 60. I got 92 though by math'ing it out.



I had:
Warboss with kill choppa, attack squig and BBK. Wanted to get da killa klaw but i simply couldnt find 10 points anywhere.

3x10 grots (1 of em with obsec)
2x10 Beast snagga boys

5 kommandos (nob with choppa to save points)
Nob with Waagh banner + Big gob

3x1 lone deff dreads
2 Kill rigs, both with frazzle, one with squiggly curse other with Roar of Mork
5 Killa Kanz with big shootas

Kustom Stompa


Originally i wanted to deepstrike in the Killa Kanz but against world eaters it didnt really matter. He had turn one, didnt do much. I moved up a tiny bit but didnt call waagh. I had deployed 2 deff dreads on the flanks to secure against reserves, and they did do that well. Angron came in and attacked a kill rig, and i made a whopping 5 out of 7 6++ invul saves, so in the end, i only lost 10 wounds. While that was important, i would have probably won even if that didnt happen.

Anyway from that point of i just slapped him hard. The Stompa didnt really shoot a lot given we had a lot of terrain but it was a big deterrence against his army as he knows i can wreck anything he has, even angron, with the stompa.

Fun list, ill probably run it at a local tournament coming up soon.

Its either Stompa, 28 stormboys and 30 kommandos (with 3 deff dreads and 5 kanz) as either deathskulls or goffs, or this version with 2 rigs. Is it better to flood the screen with smaller models or just go skew list with high toughness models with ramshackle? Not sure. Havent tried the other version so far. But the rig version worked out well.


Fun thing happened we couldnt answer: If you Roar of Mork Angron and he dies and comes back the next turn, does he retain the -2 advance and -2 charge? We played it as he does, but none of us really knew.

honestly the only melee so far to me that looked bonkers was Gman (because we had no idea it was 1 weapon only yet, now he seems fine) and Screamer Killer, but only because im thinking Carnifex prices as of right now not what they will probably be.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.

They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.

I think the 3 attacks on the chainsword is because it can usually only be taken by the Sister Superior, who in the past had 2 attacks base and the chainsword gave an extra attack, so it adds up to the 3 you see on the new datasheet. So chances are that boyz will have 3 attacks base with choppas still.

Ah, I'm not familiar with Sisters at all, as the only sisters player in my area always play one of his other armies against me. Bummer

I'm beginning to wonder why we haven't heard anything about the fight phase details yet.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.

They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.

I think the 3 attacks on the chainsword is because it can usually only be taken by the Sister Superior, who in the past had 2 attacks base and the chainsword gave an extra attack, so it adds up to the 3 you see on the new datasheet. So chances are that boyz will have 3 attacks base with choppas still.

Ah, I'm not familiar with Sisters at all, as the only sisters player in my area always play one of his other armies against me. Bummer

I'm beginning to wonder why we haven't heard anything about the fight phase details yet.

Because they need material to fill the remaining weeks of previews with???

 Jidmah wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Thanks for that, I clearly glossed over it!

I would imagine Ghaz will get the same rule as Guilliman, as his current defensive profile is vastly different to pretty much everything in the book that's not a vehicle.

Warbosses will probably just get the "same armour type" leader rule. So Megaboss with MANz, etc.

It needs to work with the combat patrol though, so most likely it can lead any infantry plus MANz while the regular warboss is just regular infantry and beastbosses are limited to leading squigs/beastsnaggas.

I'm curious what they will do with the wartrike.

Combat patrol datasheets are different to reqular though so could get rule in combat patrol to join boyz but not in reqular.

When I wrote that the TDA captain wasn't revealed yet

Agree that rules in general are updated without the old in mind. It all feels very fresh. E.g. Votann seems promising who came in a weirdly expensive and elite from an army that orginally was IG with better guns. Now their line troops went back to WS/BS4+ instead of 3+ (and got T5...) which hopefully drops their points.

I really like the Mek rule for Orks. Want more shooty Boyz? Bring Meks. Not, bring Ghaz (or whoever). In any case it´s all fresh compared to the stale fiddling with red tape stuff like a gazillion strats and layers upon layers of subfaction rules etc. Optimistic so far.

 Jidmah wrote:
When I wrote that the TDA captain wasn't revealed yet

We have known different rules are for cp games longer than that though with different sheets. We just got 1st example of what we knew long time ago.

Another option lone operative near boyz

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
When I wrote that the TDA captain wasn't revealed yet

We have known different rules are for cp games longer than that though with different sheets. We just got 1st example of what we knew long time ago.

Another option lone operative near boyz

Yes, and pretty much every one expected that those rules would be slightly tweaked. There was not a single person expecting a completely different datasheet which has no resemblance of the regular one.

It seems the vast majority of battleline units have some type of buff based around proximity to objectives. Curious to see what Boyz or Grots might get being on an objective. Maybe a charge bonus against enemy units on an objective or more attacks? Maybe even a higher pile in move?

My stompa list has now successfully beaten world eaters and Custodians.

Thats pretty decent!

 Grimskul wrote:
It seems the vast majority of battleline units have some type of buff based around proximity to objectives. Curious to see what Boyz or Grots might get being on an objective.

I don't think Grots are guaranteed to be battleline. Boyz and BeastieBoyz definitely.

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
It seems the vast majority of battleline units have some type of buff based around proximity to objectives. Curious to see what Boyz or Grots might get being on an objective.

I don't think Grots are guaranteed to be battleline. Boyz and BeastieBoyz definitely.

Once again, there is zero reason to believe that.

The use of the word "think" is supposed to indicate an opinion.

The rest of this post is also opinion.

There is the Termagaunt datasheet which was previewed here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/a-mindblowing-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-is-coming/

Also if you are a Tyranid player and hoping the endless multitude keyword will save you, it seems more likely to be strategem related as shown in their preview here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/03/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tyranids-2/

So I THINK we might see something like:

Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Beastsnagga Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Gretchin are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units.



I also think you might see lower OC (1 or 0) on Gretchin too, but do note Termagaunts had OC 2. I doubt (a kind of thinking) they will get a special rule to when on objectives as neither do Termagaunts.

I also think this might be the same across many factions and am not always expecting special objective rules and OC2 on units like Kroot, Cultists, Poxwalkers, Tzaangors, Nurglings and Brimstone Horrors to lesser or greater degrees. The Mere Mortals style rules in a lot of those factions is where I get this feeling and thought process from. It seems like GW wanted in 9th and maybe remembered in 10th to have the main poster child unit of each faction to be more popular than the side kick unit.

However, given the limited information we have, I am fully prepared to be wrong.

I am also prepared to be wrong on the basis that Grots aren't in the same boat as Termagaunts, Poxwalkers and Cultists in GW's minds.

EightFoldPath wrote:
The use of the word "think" is supposed to indicate an opinion.

The rest of this post is also opinion.

The important part is to differentiate between educated guesses, which is making a prognosis based on existing data, and baseless speculation.

On dakka, and twice more so for tenth, a lot of people are just making up worst case scenarios out of thin air and then get angry about it. I absolutely hate that kind of behavior, and do not want to see any of it in this thread.

That said, you actually did make an educated guess, so I'm sorry for incorrectly calling you out.

There is the Termagaunt datasheet which was previewed here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/a-mindblowing-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-is-coming/

We already know that something is wrong with the datasheet in that article though. During the stream two more datasheets were shown, one with the ripper swarms rolled in and the other with a different ability.

So either it's the combat patrol datasheet (which does not care for battleline) or GW edited it for marketing purposes or there are actually multiple termagant datasheets with different options.

So I THINK we might see something like:

Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Beastsnagga Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Gretchin are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units.

If I follow your rationale, why would they limit gretchin but not the two types of boyz? Wouldn't it make more sense to limit boyz if their goal is to force diversification?

For Death Guard:
Plague Marines are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Poxwalkers, Cultists are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units each, but you can still take 6 units of them in total.

Speculation, but likely. However, poxwalkers and cultists are already limited, gretchin are not.

I also think you might see lower OC (1 or 0) on Gretchin too, but do note Termagaunts had OC 2. I doubt (a kind of thinking) they will get a special rule to when on objectives as neither do Termagaunts.

The termagant datasheet from the stream has "Lurking behavior" which is benefits of cover while on an objective.
OC1 for gretchin is likely, but it wouldn't really make them worse. After all, their OC to point ratio would still we really good.

I also think this might be the same across many factions and am not always expecting special objective rules and OC2 on units like Kroot, Cultists, Poxwalkers, Tzaangors, Nurglings and Brimstone Horrors to lesser or greater degrees. The Mere Mortals style rules in a lot of those factions is where I get this feeling and thought process from. It seems like GW wanted in 9th and maybe remembered in 10th to have the main poster child unit of each faction to be more popular than the side kick unit.

It think you are drawing that "minor troops option" bracket a bit too large. There also isn't really a need to limit gretchin game or fluffwise.
Gretchin outnumbering boyz is not uncommon for snakebite, deff skullz or grot rebel forces, and relying too heavily on weedy models with next to no offensive capabilities has never paid unless they either filled mandatory slots (gone) or generated tons of CP (also gone).

However, given the limited information we have, I am fully prepared to be wrong.

Information is power. Have some extra power (link to extra termagant datasheets):
https://www.reddit.com/r/40k/comments/11zabzv/two_different_termagants_data_sheets_during_the/

I am also prepared to be wrong on the basis that Grots aren't in the same boat as Termagaunts, Poxwalkers and Cultists in GW's minds.

I would agree with you that the doomposters on dakka are very tiring and I did like and agree with a lot of your post here about why you aren't going to do the new thread. I should have probably put more effort into the original post to make it clearer I was just suggesting the possibility.

I suspect the other Termagaunt datasheet is the combat patrol sheet because it is missing two of the gun options (which we just recently learned they do in combat patrol sheets) and is missing the Endless Multitudes keyword which is for at least one strat (CP games are stated in the article to get their own custom strategems so won't need as many special keywords). The leadership of 9+/10+ on that sheet also looks off compared to Genestealers (7+) and Neurogaunts (8+).

I do think GW are happy with 6 x 10~30 (maybe dropping to 20) Boyz and 6 x 10~20 Beast Snagga Boyz but not happy with 6 x 10~20 Poxwalkers (unless in a special detachment that comes in the codex). Although given you get 30 in the Combat Patrol box, it makes you think they want 120 Poxwalkers on every table!

Grots I'm not sure on and they could be different to these other lesser units in other factions, because I do agree there is an Orks AND Goblins nature to greenskins.

But I wouldn't be going out right now and buying 180 Grots on the assumption I could run 6 x 30. Whereas I would be more comfortable buying 120 Beast Snagga Boyz in the belief I could run 6 x 20. Although I would probably limit it to 60 for now (3 x 20 or 6 x 10) and then wait and see.

My general advice for buying, building and painting at the moment in terms of preparing for 10th is assume any unit could get a new smaller maximum unit size in 10th, assume most units won't be battleline and put forgeworld units to the back of the queue (unless you just want them as models rather than game pieces).

Well, I'm currently building 4x10 beastsnagga boyz (with one extra box so I can replace nobz for 2x20) in hopes of them being able to charge out of battlewagons

Outside of that it's probably best to buy stuff you don't have yet. GW clearly tries to give every unit a different ability, so having more options increases your tactical flexibility.

Agree on the FW part. The studio has been rebranded to be Horus Heresy now, and they are moving towards replacing resin with plastic at full speed. While orks at least have a theoretical chance of appearing in the 30k era, I wouldn't bank on any ork FW models being left by the time 11th comes around.

I think realistically i'm about tapped out on what I can buy for my Ork horde. I could in theory buy some of the other buggies but i'm not sure i even want to own them. The squigbuggies are a hard no for me, I didn't buy them when they were the best unit in our army and i'm not going to buy them now when they are mediocre at best, they are just too damn ugly in my opinion

Maybe I should buy a box of the new boys just to add some flavor to my existing horde...otherwise yeah...maybe a gorkanaut.

Should be interesting to see how the new editions shakes up the ork army playstyles. I'll be honest, i'm a bit tired of the Goff alpha strike list i've been running in tournaments.