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Goose LeChance wrote:

I'm talking about the ones that clearly don't like the hobby side and are in it purely for the "game".

Video games just seem like a far better choice.

Playing 40k with miniatures (painted or not) is just a completely different kind of experience than playing an RTS.
And let's face it, the only part of the hobby that is regularly ignored is painting, simply because it is a chore to many people.

It's similar to visiting a concert where the band might be drunk and the acoustics are off compared to listening to high quality recordings on your fine-tuned sound system at home.

I would expect most Little Timmy's and those in the 18-29 bracket (like myself) to be mainly on discord. I'm on Dakka partly because I was born in the 90's which means facebook didn't really become that big of a thing until later so I started on forums first (oh good days, back when DA WAAAGH! forum was still online) and I've preferred the format over facebook or discord groups.

I'd definitely say that it's harder for young people to get into the hobby in terms of money without having their parents involved now that the price ceiling to get in is fairly high unless they're going for something like Underworlds or Warcry to start with. I think if there's one good thing about using discord/social media groups is that its a lot easier to disseminate the ruleset in a more "accessible" manner than you could 30 years ago, so as long as their search fu isn't too weak, you can at least make up for having to constantly buy $50+ books for rules.

Before the pandemic, I did most of my regular gaming at my local warhammer store. There were a lot of younger folks picking up boxes of stuff at the store, or parents doing so for their kids.

I think most were mostly into the hobby aspect, or just playing at home, as I didn't usually see any at the store playing, but folks were certainly buying stuff. From talking with the manager, it seemed like most of the folks who buy stuff, don't actually play the games, or only do so rarely.

Goose LeChance wrote:
An Xbox/Playstation/Nintendo/Computer is still gonna cost less than a 2k army and it's going to last a long, long time compared to GWs 3 year edition cycle and numerous supplements. Plus there are no hobby supplies to buy, no painting or modelling, no books to read.

I don't know why people who are only interested in the gaming part of miniature wargames even bother to be honest.

It depends on how many videogames you play in that 3 years period and what kind of games do you really want to buy and play. New releases cost a lot for example, and most videogamers, just like wargamers, want to play with the new stuff.

Typically in my experience videogamers pay much more than hobbists, especially if we consider a period of 3+ years. Like even 2x to 5x. They probably spend less for their first investment, aka console + 1-2 games, but in the long run it's a really expensive hobby. Oh, and those consoles don't really last decades like models, dedicated videogamers would definitely get the new console as soon as they have the opportunity. Let's not even consider PCs and their hardware.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
Interesting. I would have expected a lot of "Little Timmys" but GW apparently priced them out of the game.

Not a fan of mocking our younger players by calling them names, but the usual progress of Warhammer players is that they get introduced to the universe in their teenage years, but disappear due to price and other commitments. Then around the age of 30 they come back as they get jobs and stability. That's at least the experience I have where I live with a few exceptions.

Don't be too sensitive.

The terms "Little Timmy", "Johnny" and "Spike" have been invented by MtG developers which according to them describe the "psychography" of their customers. These categories would also fit tabletop gamers.

On the nature of games don't forget you've got your all in one package games; your games with legions of DLC and then games which are online (MMO) or majority so which might have no just expansion content, but also decorative content as well.

Individual purchases, like a new skins, might be cheap; however people might well spend a considerable amount collecting multiple ones if its their main or current focus game.

Kind of a how it looks around at my store 20+ people all end 20 to mid 30s, 6 dudes who are mid to late teens, and one person under 16.

I'm pleasantly surprised that a third of respondents so far are in their 40s. I'm 44 in a week

I guess we're the teenagers who played Rogue Trader then came back to the hobby later.

Goose LeChance wrote:

I'm talking about the ones that clearly don't like the hobby side and are in it purely for the "game".

No trooo gamer...

That would be me then...between wonky old eyes and lack of patience I find painting a proper slog, but as I only play skirmish games (and pre-painted x-wing) the money not spent on mini's can fund commission painting

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the player base seems to become older as young people mostly prefer digital games.
One day, this could become a problem for GW / table top gaming industry.

If it were, wouldn't've that happened already?

GW profits are only going up, and it's not as if the sudden electronic boom is new.

 dreadblade wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised that a third of respondents so far are in their 40s. I'm 44 in a week

I guess we're the teenagers who played Rogue Trader then came back to the hobby later.

Or just kept playing.

The argument "younger people play more digital games" doesn't hold ground - because it was true for my generation (30+) already. We played a lot of PC games, but I still started the lotr game when I was 14. And that's true for many. Playing videogames doesn't keep you away from wargaming. If anything one can even pull you to the other, as DoW did for many people.

 Nevelon wrote:

 dreadblade wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised that a third of respondents so far are in their 40s. I'm 44 in a week

I guess we're the teenagers who played Rogue Trader then came back to the hobby later.

Or just kept playing.

You have? That's impressive

I went from RT to 8th...

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd say it's a current age distribution of dakka players, many of who aren't actively playing 40k anymore.

Interesting nonetheless - I expect the average to be much higher than in other 40k communities.

I expect it to skew younger-than-average. Most of the people I know at the LGS are fairly middle-aged and don't participate in online forums, whereas the younger people tend to be more likely to read stuff online about the game.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd say it's a current age distribution of dakka players, many of who aren't actively playing 40k anymore.

Interesting nonetheless - I expect the average to be much higher than in other 40k communities.

I expect it to skew younger-than-average. Most of the people I know at the LGS are fairly middle-aged and don't participate in online forums, whereas the younger people tend to be more likely to read stuff online about the game.

Yeah, but not on dakka. Reddit, discord and facebook groups seem to have a vastly younger audience than here.

 dreadblade wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 dreadblade wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised that a third of respondents so far are in their 40s. I'm 44 in a week

I guess we're the teenagers who played Rogue Trader then came back to the hobby later.

Or just kept playing.

You have? That's impressive

I went from RT to 8th...

Not at the same level. 2nd and 4th I only had a handful of games in each, played a lot of 3rd. Other editions are somewhere in between. But never stopped, sold off armies, etc.

And I’ll be 47 this November.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the player base seems to become older as young people mostly prefer digital games.
One day, this could become a problem for GW / table top gaming industry.

If it were, wouldn't've that happened already?

GW profits are only going up, and it's not as if the sudden electronic boom is new.

GW has school programs, Duke of Edinburgh and its stores. They do a LOT of youth outreach programs.

GW is clearly well aware of a few key things
1) They are the gateway into the hobby for most of the market that isn't historical games*. Therefor any market expansion is for GW to do; the rest of the market survives almost entirely on poaching people who are GW customers or who were at least introduced through GW. At least in the UK (GW's home) this is very much my observation. So for GW to expand the market they either steal those customers back; or gain new ones.

2) If they don't get new younger customers, their older customers; whilst more able to spend money; will eventually vanish.

3) Any long/significant gap in recruiting younger people results in age gaps. This means that new people who are interested end up having to join groups of people much older. Generation gaps are a thing so its beneficial to GW to keep the youths coming into the hobby.

4) GW knows customers burn out. Both through just natural hobby progression; or because they've been collecting for years and the majority of GW models remain valid through the ages - so they have their army and don't need/want to buy any more. Those customers might well still hang around, but aren't buying.
New customers are fresh, excited and more likely to need to spend more to join in.

*which seems to survive on the fact that people turning 50+ seem to instinctively gravitate toward historical games for some unbeknown reason!

GW has school programs, Duke of Edinburgh and its stores. They do a LOT of youth outreach programs.

Well, I guess that this is restricted to UK.
The game here in Germany is largely unknown.
I think you must have come across a GW store but those stores are often not located at high street.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the player base seems to become older as young people mostly prefer digital games.
One day, this could become a problem for GW / table top gaming industry.

If it were, wouldn't've that happened already?

GW profits are only going up, and it's not as if the sudden electronic boom is new.

I think that's mostly old players who came back for 8th. Also from what I remember GW were VERY close to operating at a loss before Kirby stepped down so it's not like the bar was particularly high.

 wuestenfux wrote:

GW has school programs, Duke of Edinburgh and its stores. They do a LOT of youth outreach programs.

Well, I guess that this is restricted to UK.
The game here in Germany is largely unknown.
I think you must have come across a GW store but those stores are often not located at high street.

They offered school programs in Germany, too, before Corona. I'm a teacher and thought about joining, but then considered my students and how much time I needed to invest and thought, naah.
But I'm actually quite interested to know if it was used somewhere here.

Only a 112 votes in, but I'm surprised at the results so far. I was under the impression that there were a lot more of the young-ins on here. I guess they use Facebook.

We're showing our age ladz. Soon the word "forum" will be relegated to the annals of history like 'VHS tapes' and 'floppy disks'. HAHAHA.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

GW has school programs, Duke of Edinburgh and its stores. They do a LOT of youth outreach programs.

Well, I guess that this is restricted to UK.
The game here in Germany is largely unknown.
I think you must have come across a GW store but those stores are often not located at high street.

They offered school programs in Germany, too, before Corona. I'm a teacher and thought about joining, but then considered my students and how much time I needed to invest and thought, naah.
But I'm actually quite interested to know if it was used somewhere here.

Also in Germany? Interesting. Didn't know that.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

GW has school programs, Duke of Edinburgh and its stores. They do a LOT of youth outreach programs.

Well, I guess that this is restricted to UK.
The game here in Germany is largely unknown.
I think you must have come across a GW store but those stores are often not located at high street.

They offered school programs in Germany, too, before Corona. I'm a teacher and thought about joining, but then considered my students and how much time I needed to invest and thought, naah.
But I'm actually quite interested to know if it was used somewhere here.

Also in Germany? Interesting. Didn't know that.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/10/schliesen-sie-sich-der-warhammer-alliance-an/

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the player base seems to become older as young people mostly prefer digital games.
One day, this could become a problem for GW / table top gaming industry.

If it were, wouldn't've that happened already?

GW profits are only going up, and it's not as if the sudden electronic boom is new.

The difference is that even a married 35y old is going to be able to buy more and more often, then a someone who is 15. You can write the rules different, make the core army size different. If you have people my age as your core audiance, you can't make the core army based around multiple big kits, and expect to grow sales fast. But if your core audiance is 30+ man the sky is the limit in what you want to do with prices. 35$ for an HQ is madness to me, same as 60$ for a unit. But if you are 30 and could be double that per weeked on pub crawling, the hobby may seem cheap.

I answered your poll. After the vitriol, re active or inactive, want to play, bought a model didn’t buy a model.. yeah, the ps5 is looking more attractive by the minute. One thing that keeps me away from actively looking for a game is lockdowns. Another is this attitude with whatever it is that active players must be or stand for or whatever that even means. And a third thing is distance. I played last year when there was a GW store 20minutes away. Here, where I am now, the nearest market is 30 minutes away and I remember the GW store keeper in the town where I was living a month ago say to me that there are no GW stores in Portugal. I dunno. No time to look yet, and my collection is still in shipping boxes waiting to be shipped wherever we end up buying… but according to this poll, maybe I am not active enough to vote. Whatevs. I voted.

Just to be clear, the comment about active players was in response to the very first reply:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd say it's a current age distribution of dakka players, many of who aren't actively playing 40k anymore.

It really wasn't supposed to be a complicated question. I thought it would be interesting to see the age distribution of people on here who play 40K, that's all

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the player base seems to become older as young people mostly prefer digital games.
One day, this could become a problem for GW / table top gaming industry.

If it were, wouldn't've that happened already?

GW profits are only going up, and it's not as if the sudden electronic boom is new.

no, that said I know that as early as the early aughts there was in the industry some concern over the "greying player base"

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I used to skim the top off my lunch money to buy minis.

Same. Ahhh, memories . . . waiting like six weeks for my FLGS to get two Assault Squad boxes in so I could paint them up just like in the WD.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Nowadays that wouldn't get me nearly so far.

Yeah not even close. The models are more expensive and the number of models required for a standard game have doubled-ish.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the player base seems to become older as young people mostly prefer digital games.
One day, this could become a problem for GW / table top gaming industry.

If it were, wouldn't've that happened already?

GW profits are only going up, and it's not as if the sudden electronic boom is new.

Video games DID kill tabletop games... and then tabletop games roared right back into relevance and are more popular now than they have been in decades. It's a much bigger trend than just 40k.

Kirby killed GW's dominance when he cancelled specialist games, people went elsewhere and other companies prospered as a result.

And that was nine years of declining profits.

And frankly other companies understand the internet side of things far better.

Look how badly the legal threats against fan creators went down.