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Is it possible to run the boyz as komandos?
Or rather do commandos run a heavy weapon in their squads, because I assume that 10 orks infantry can more or less always be run as another 10 ork infantry with same load out.

Because if yes, then the box isn't that bad. Most ork armies seem to run 2 units of komandos.

The warboss not being customizable is kind of disappointing, especially after seeing what they did with the nobz on smasha squig.

The koptas though? We wanted to be able to buy AOBR koptas and essentially GW delivered and brought back a legacy option that never had a model so far. On top of that, it seem like the slots for arms and legs are the same, so you can easily mix them up. They are also shaped in a way that you can replace them with arms from other sets with minimal effort, and unlike with the old koptas you can still keep one hand on the stick.These are perfectly fine.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
But the feth am i supposed to do with these boyzs?

Mix 'em in with the multi-part multi-pose Boyz and hope that they haven't had a visit from the Scale Creep Fairy.

well according to some they didn't, which of course would be nice...
But i wanted me to get some 30 Shoota boyz (with the first 10 being my first fully painted models ever in my longstanding and later on corrupted carreer of 40k) and now i need to buy atleast another boy box to get more shootas?
...

It wouldn't have been that much additional sprue if they'd had done either choppa and pistol or shoota for every one of the boys.

And quite rightly when i can get from Wargames atlantic basically 5 diffrent heads and more then enough special and other weaponry and have to compare that to 8 boltguns / 10 csm then i seriously start to wonder what GW has going for it at that point beyond an IP monopoly it enforces against the community to a degree that hurts itself more than it does good longterm?
Because quite frankly a lot of their plastic ranges is easily outcompeted and even their newer kits have other better alternatives at often far more reasonable prices.

its like they want to actively push people away or force them to start considering 3d Printers etc.
And locally due to conversion rates that don't reflect reality its actually cheaper for me to get a 3d printer + setup with all the whistles and bells than starting certain armies already.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I could live with pushfit, if designed smartly...

But the feth am i supposed to do with these boyzs?

Exalted!
Don't buy them or buy more of them? Or just don't play wysiwyg?
Ebay is an option?

I feel so bad for the new Ork players out there.

Karol wrote:
Is it possible to run the boyz as komandos?
Or rather do commandos run a heavy weapon in their squads, because I assume that 10 orks infantry can more or less always be run as another 10 ork infantry with same load out.

Because if yes, then the box isn't that bad. Most ork armies seem to run 2 units of komandos.

kommandos are fairly disticnt though with a commando type deal kit.
But yea with greenstuff and some bits you could easily turn these into a commando unit and make a shoota boy unit on the side. because commandos obviously once again didn't get shootas.....

Karol wrote:
Is it possible to run the boyz as komandos?
Or rather do commandos run a heavy weapon in their squads, because I assume that 10 orks infantry can more or less always be run as another 10 ork infantry with same load out.

Because if yes, then the box isn't that bad. Most ork armies seem to run 2 units of komandos.

The difference between an ork boy and an ork kommando is usually a backpack and a fancy head. Before the metal/fincast models which recently retired, you could buy an upgrade set from FW which was just heads with gas masks and backpacks. I think most people just used the ammo backpacks from the old boyz kit and burna heads or something similar to convert them.

Since the kommadoz box comes with 20 heads, I'll do exactly that. Build all the special weapons from the kit, split them into a melee and ranged and then fill up the squads with models made from boyz with the spare heads.

 warhead01 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I could live with pushfit, if designed smartly...

But the feth am i supposed to do with these boyzs?

Exalted!
Don't buy them or buy more of them? Or just don't play wysiwyg?
Ebay is an option?

I feel so bad for the new Ork players out there.

I am not even new, my first real army was Orks (AOBR was very significant ) and whilest i was always more of a mad mek type of player (kanz, the old grot guns and koptas aswell as flying things) i had always a distinct lack of boyz. But when the boyz from ages long since past are more competently designed then their new stuff then i start to wonder why?
And stuff like the havoc chaincannon debacle really really make me think they have ulterior design choices at the work.

If you buy it the only message you send is that you want to see more monopose Orks.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I could live with pushfit, if designed smartly...

But the feth am i supposed to do with these boyzs?

Exalted!
Don't buy them or buy more of them? Or just don't play wysiwyg?
Ebay is an option?

I feel so bad for the new Ork players out there.

I am not even new, my first real army was Orks (AOBR was very significant ) and whilest i was always more of a mad mek type of player (kanz, the old grot guns and koptas aswell as flying things) i had always a distinct lack of boyz. But when the boyz from ages long since past are more competently designed then their new stuff then i start to wonder why?
And stuff like the havoc chaincannon debacle really really make me think they have ulterior design choices at the work.

I agree. I asked the same question and doing the math they will sell 3 Combat Patrol boxes to players looking to find more control over their models or maybe drop another box of boys with different options mathed out for completeness between the two but I do agree it's a money making thing. but was told GW might be changing focus to fixed load outs fixed kits because that's what they see other companies doing. Only GW knows for sure. I will say aside from the heavy/special weapon I think 3 shootas is about the right number for a mixed mob of 10 but I'm no math guy and zero or all of them is probably a stronger numbers than mixed.
I have sooooooo many boys mobs love the old AoBR pushfits. I salvaged between 60 or 90 of them a few years ago for my Green tide formations.
I remember my friend complaining about not enough Chaincannons, I recommended blue stuff for molds.... Wish there was a similarly simple answer for Ork boys. Maybe Latex? but what to use after that... Good luck Boss!

Goose LeChance wrote:
If you buy it the only message you send is that you want to see more monopose Orks.

Monopose orks > fully customizable primaris

Marine popularity will only continue to grow if they have better looking models with more modular kits.

But if they are the main seller for GW, would they risk, not giving the options to the marine factions? Marine sells, from what people have told, seem to not only make a large chunk of all W40k sales, but all GW sells in general.

It would be a huge gamble for GW to risk replace them or change the factions too much.

Karol wrote:
But if they are the main seller for GW, would they risk, not giving the options to the marine factions? Marine sells, from what people have told, seem to not only make a large chunk of all W40k sales, but all GW sells in general.

It would be a huge gamble for GW to risk replace them or change the factions too much.

It sucks for Ork players especially since the range is famous for it's customisation. Is monopose a fad, or will GW continue to double down? Were these designs too far in development to course correct? who knows. When it comes to new models from GW, be careful what you wish for.

Enjoy those monopose Ork Boyz.

Vatsetis wrote:

The Newman wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
Dont put the burden on the costumers ("whales"), Adam Smith wouldnt do it.

Quick FYI - customers buy products, costumers make costumes...

Sorry, but I see this one frequently (not just from you) and it bugs me, for some reason.

Well it can bug you... But is almost a truism that outside a perfect competition market (and the "warhammer hobby" is certainly not one) the power of costumers is extremely limited.

Corporate Workshop couldnt do a tenth of his bad practices if its costumers had any significant power.

The fact that costumers are routinely framed as those ultimately guilty of corporate abuse when they are one of the main victims is just another aspect of their lack of power or real agency in the market place.

I'm sorry, but what the heck does any of that have to do with saying "costumers" when you obviously mean "customers"? "People using the wrong word here bugs me" is in no way an argument for or against your position, say "yeah, I meant 'customer', sorry about your pet peeve there" and move on.

Upps... I made a spelling mistake... Non native, quick phone posting... Then I misread your post... And get lost In translation.

Yep I mean customer... Sorry for the lecturing.

I'm thrilled to see someone grasp the important point and react appropriately, thank you.

Comparing csm kits to their "marine equivalent" is the most obvious sure-fire way to point out the reality of GWs blatant marine favoritism.

They just always get more in the kit and the kit costs less, lol.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Comparing csm kits to their "marine equivalent" is the most obvious sure-fire way to point out the reality of GWs blatant marine favoritism.

They just always get more in the kit and the kit costs less, lol.

Look. Those spikes take a lot of space on the sprue!

Haha, what they did to the new Ork set is so GW it hurts. Jesus. Poor Orks. You wait all that time for new models and then they give you some monopose boyz that are stuck partially choppas and partially shooters with no option to even swap the weapons.

It must be exhausting trying to defend GW, every time you settle on a PR strategy they do something new that rips the rug out from under you.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Haha, what they did to the new Ork set is so GW it hurts. Jesus. Poor Orks. You wait all that time for new models and then they give you some monopose boyz that are stuck partially choppas and partially shooters with no option to even swap the weapons.

The issue really is that GW don't put nearly as much resources to xenos than to Imperium. If this was a marine release, then it would be almost certain that this was just a starter box sprue and there would be a separate full kit later with full options. But it's orks, so it's probably not gonna happen. If this is all the boyz are gonna get, then at minimum they should have made at least couple of them to have an option to be built with wither choppa or shoota, so if you got twenty you could at least build ten of each. Three shootas per ten models if frankly bizarre.

It must be exhausting trying to defend GW, every time you settle on a PR strategy they do something new that rips the rug out from under you.

Who does that? It might be hard to grasp, but some people actually have no agenda, and understand that GW is just a company that produces some great stuff and some not so great stuff. And then you only buy the stuff you like.

I wouldn't stop buying models but I would quit collecting armies. I am perfectly fine with E2B monopose like Indomitus, Dominion, Cursed City or Warhammer Underworlds warbands. I think models look awesome and not being poseable doesn't make them worse for me.

Monopose only becomes an issue for me if I have to build or paint exactly the same model multiple times. I would buy one set of Beast Snagga Boyz or nuBoyz but not multiple sets.

I don't care where I am at HBMC's scale of denial and I don't understand why he cares either.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Marine popularity will only continue to grow if they have better looking models with more modular kits.

Haha, black knights like you are hilarious. "Don't buy ork kits, because if you do, GW will produce less ork kits". Do you even read some of your own gak sometimes?

 Jidmah wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
Marine popularity will only continue to grow if they have better looking models with more modular kits.

Haha, black knights like you are hilarious. "Don't buy ork kits, because if you do, GW will produce less ork kits". Do you even read some of your own gak sometimes?

They won't produce less Ork kits, they'll produce monopose Ork kits. Of course there's probably a bit more coming and then that's it for the next 10 years.

Space Marines will just continue to dominate the market because when someone sees the virgin monopose Ork next to the chad modular Marine it's game over.

Just like few people will buy 20 year old IG/Eldar models when you've got Primaris Marines next to them on a shelf.

"Don't buy monopose kits unless you want to send the message to GW that people will buy monopose kits" seems like a fairly reasonable take.

GW doesn't care if you're holding your nose when you hit the purchase button, they just care that you hit the button. Every time somebody purchases a monopose kit they send a datapoint to GW that monopose kits sell.

Doesn't mean you can't do it, obviously. It's also reasonable to say "it's better than nothing, and I'd rather they make monopose orks than no orks." Even if it is a little bit sad in terms of being resigned to those being the only options.

Question is whether GW will make that connection or conclude that orks don't sell in general anymore. You'd have to be very vocal in pointing out the issue being the monopose construction.

Or just, like, buy multipose ork kits instead of monopose ones. GW often feels like it's still operating in the 1980s, but I guarantee you even they track carefully which stuff sells and which stuff doesn't and look at the type of kit it is, not just the faction.

But yes, everyone should be vocal about the reasons. If you don't like monopose kits but are buying them because you feel you have no choice, email GW with that. They won't care one whit about your individual opinion, but if they get 10,000 of them - or even better, 10,000 negative social media comments about it, new GW actually cares about its social media presence - they might.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Or just, like, buy multipose ork kits instead of monopose ones. GW often feels like it's still operating in the 1980s, but I guarantee you even they track carefully which stuff sells and which stuff doesn't and look at the type of kit it is, not just the faction.

But yes, everyone should be vocal about the reasons. If you don't like monopose kits but are buying them because you feel you have no choice, email GW with that. They won't care one whit about your individual opinion, but if they get 10,000 of them - or even better, 10,000 negative social media comments about it, new GW actually cares about its social media presence - they might.

I doubt any amount of emails matter to a publicly traded mega corp like GW, as long as you buy it, they'll assume it's a success. The only thing that matters to them is your money and where you spend it. That should tell them everything they need to know.

Yeah… 110euro for three koptas… that is a negative for me. If the boys were customizable with extra bits for me to move more of my old whfb black orks and other boys into 40k, then… getting closer to a yes. With a twenty percent discount and free shipping, at effectively 90euro… much closer. Now, about that 80euro battle wagon. Wow. Yeah, I follow jullevi here. I am glad to have collected my armies already. Feel sad for anyone trying to get into the hobby now.

 Crimson wrote:

Andykp wrote:

It was more a comment about the posts that all followed it, big thoughtful comment on the discussion and attitudes in general in the hobby…..ignore it and continue bickering.

Basically this whole thread is one side trying to convince the other that there opinion is fact. I know that’s the majority of the forum but this thread is specifically about aesthetics and personal taste. There is no right or wrong. I PREFER the newer style models but liked elements form the others. I think the new ORK boyz are too far away from easy modification, but think the primaris marine line has it pretty much bang on. I can do exactly what I could with the old ones with the new ones (it’s with in my skill set to do that level of converting). With the ORK boyz my green stuff skills aren’t up to doing much with them. The is what suits me! Not everyone.

People are perfectly free to like or dislike whatever they want. However, what I have an issue with is generated grievances and distortion of the truth. And this is what is very much going on with this 'monopose' debacle. Some people hate the primaris marines, and that's their right; but now they're just inventing reasons for hating them and as a process distorting the meaning of actually useful terms. Before the primaris no one though that the Skitarii or GSC cultists were monopose or complained that they lacked customisation potential. But when the primaris models started to use similar construction method, this was suddenly an anathema. And calling models that by no reasonable definition are monopose 'monopose' is just confusing. GW actually currently produces monopose and multipose version of many units, so these labels are useful for communicating what you're talking about.

Agree whole heartedly.

As long as the individual sculpts look good on their own, yes I'd expand my collection.

But if they looked stupid, then no.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the new Templar sculpts look like and if they'd easily be converted to nonBT.

 Crimson wrote:
Three shootas per ten models if frankly bizarre.

The decision is slightly less bizarre if GW have another intended purpose for these kits where cost, push-fit, and fixed load-outs are an advantage over full multi-part with a million extra options. Boyz in particular would have needed at least one extra sprue to cover all possible options, increasing tooling costs by 50%.

Other options could include:

Another self-contained board game like the two revealed this week

A Boyz Kill Team set with KT-specific upgrade sprue, like the updated Cadians

A reboot of the Battle for Vedros starter sets, intended for a much younger audience in toy shops & department stores and with a lower price

After 9 other new kits for Orks this year it's entirely possible that the whole reason these new Combat Patrol models were allocated production resources at all is because GW has another purpose lined up for them. The patrol box clearly isn't the only product for these sprues because why go to the trouble of making everything push-fit and then include a regular Deff Dread in the same box? If this was the only end-product then they'd have just done regular flying stands for the Deffkoptas instead of integrating them into the sprue.

Or it's just because, as noted previously, GW doesn't think about the game when designing the models. Models first, rules second. For all we know the model designers don't even realize that having a mixed loadout isn't something anybody would actually do in the game. Maybe they think that's how people play - Orks aren't disciplined, this guy having a gun, this guy having a choppa, this guy having a special weapon - how Orky is that?! What's the problem guys? They have a long history of not including enough heavy weapons in dedicated heavy weapons squads for everyone to take the same heavy weapon, this is just that applied to a basic troops squad as well - again, not a distinction I'm sure the model designers even necessarily appreciate.