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Racerguy180 wrote: If I'm playing a game set in m37, why would primaris be there?
Just like how Rowbowt wouldn't be there(unless I missed something), but if we are playing war of the beast, Vulkan would be around so that at least makes sense.
So just don't use Primaris. Wow that was easy to solve, wasn't it?
I can understand that when you play, you have zero story or narrative in mind(& that's ok), We just refuse to be boring.
Ah, yes because you know me so well. How many games have you played against me that you can make this statement? Do you know anything about my armies and models?
Last week I played against my buddy's TS, we were playing a game set at the opening of the Rift(so no Primaris). O I also didn't have a razorback or is that immersion breaking???
Or any of the wars for Armageddon, 1st Tyrannic war or (insert historical event)?
None of this is an answer. Why are Primaris a problem if you're playing a game set in a historical period where they aren't present? If you don't have the models/units from those periods that's your problem. You can still buy nearly every single thing that would have been (and still is) present in Space Marine armies prior to the opening of the Rift.
Racerguy180 wrote: If I'm playing a game set in m37, why would primaris be there?
Just like how Rowbowt wouldn't be there(unless I missed something), but if we are playing war of the beast, Vulkan would be around so that at least makes sense.
So just don't use Primaris. Wow that was easy to solve, wasn't it?
I can understand that when you play, you have zero story or narrative in mind(& that's ok), We just refuse to be boring.
Ah, yes because you know me so well. How many games have you played against me that you can make this statement? Do you know anything about my armies and models?
Last week I played against my buddy's TS, we were playing a game set at the opening of the Rift(so no Primaris). O I also didn't have a razorback or is that immersion breaking???
Or any of the wars for Armageddon, 1st Tyrannic war or (insert historical event)?
None of this is an answer. Why are Primaris a problem if you're playing a game set in a historical period where they aren't present? If you don't have the models/units from those periods that's your problem. You can still buy nearly every single thing that would have been (and still is) present in Space Marine armies prior to the opening of the Rift.
I'm with Gert on that one. Oh noes, we're playing in M34, I can't use Tau! Oh no, we're playing WWII, I can't use my Vikings!
Racerguy180 wrote: If I'm playing a game set in m37, why would primaris be there?
Just like how Rowbowt wouldn't be there(unless I missed something), but if we are playing war of the beast, Vulkan would be around so that at least makes sense.
I can understand that when you play, you have zero story or narrative in mind(& that's ok), We just refuse to be boring.
Last week I played against my buddy's TS, we were playing a game set at the opening of the Rift(so no Primaris). O I also didn't have a razorback or is that immersion breaking???
Or any of the wars for Armageddon, 1st Tyrannic war or (insert historical event)?
This is the equivalent of playing Bolt Action set in WW2, and complaining why you can't use Navy Seal Team 6 or a M1 Abrams. You're being passive-aggressive.
If you're going to play Primaris, don't use M37 or ditch worrying about "history". If you want a "real" reason, Cawl had the units (and I believe the armor) in status back then, and may have quietly and secretly unthawed some squads for combat testing.
Rihgu wrote: Am I the only one who took the inciting post as a joke?
Doesn't seem like a person with 5-6k points of Primaris actually has any problem with them.
Dingdingding!
I own a ton of Primaris...actually more than I do Firstborn. I was lamenting the fact that when FB are dropped, playing 1st Tyrannic war, Beast, Armageddon, etc...becomes difficult. It would be like playing 30k with intercessors.
new primaris only players would be losing out on some fluff fun.
Da Boss wrote: I don't want any primaris, and prefer the original models that I got into the hobby with.
So I just picked up what I want from the old range and finished out my space marine collection. I'm happy for Primaris to exist for all the other (probably greater number) of people who like them. I'd suggest to anyone who is upset about them to just finish out their space marine collections, or if they already have extensive collections, accept that it's not going to expand any more.
In any case, space marines are going to be available in the secondary market for years and years yet. I just don't see the reason to get annoyed about it, the old models are still available if you want them.
Yeah this makes sense to me. I've been having a great time building an army with cheap padly painted, damaged firstborn units and rescuing them with tons of superglue and black spraypaint. I'll be taking the army to tournaments and it won't be competative but I'm not bothered about that. I just wanna kill some primaris
Because it is pointless rule bloat that adds very little depth to the game whilst limiting modelling options.
And by that reasoning there shouldn't even be a Relic Terminator entry.
Indeed. There should be one terminator squad entry with options to take any weapons that come in any of the kits.
I think it's fun when things are special, when there's a distinct difference between things. I think adding granularity and options to a game is something that is more enjoyable. Having three different types of Terminator armour with their own strengths and weaknesses provides a choice. Lumping things that are distinct from one another into one catch-all unit is less creative, less fun, and just plain boring.
So you like having the seven thousand different primaris bolter variants now? This is the same thing.
As for Power Armour, the problems are twofold:
1. Power Armour tends to be mixed not just within squads but on individual Marines as well. You can have Marines with Mk.8 chest plates, Mk.6 legs and a Mk.7 helmet. Variation within squads is too high to account for that in rules.
And you should be able to similarly mix different marks of terminator armour in same squad as well. Hell, some chaos models have different marks mixed on one terminator. (Death Guard IIRC.)
2. The differences between power armour marks are not quite as stark as the clear differences between Cataphracti and Tartaros armour (same as the three main types of Mk.X power armour).
Nah. Differnces between marks of power armour definitely exist in the fluff. Mark III is more heavily armoured for example. It's the exact same thing.
It's one of those 'levels of detail' things that isn't something appropriate to a game of 40k's scale, especially when you tend to have far more power armour Marines compared to Terminators. I would apply the same thinking to Combi-Weapons, where the idea that they only ever got one shot never made any sense, as you can reload guns (a change I'm glad they made for more recent editions). In the 40kRPGs, Combi-Weapons get one shot and then have to spend time reloading. Power Armour Marks all have slightly different rules as well. For 40k scale, that's not necessary.
It certainly is a matter of taste. Personally I feel current 40K distinguishes equipment a tad too finely for its scale. I preferred when instead of power axes, swords and mauls, we had just power weapons, and you could model them however you wanted. Similarly the primaris bolter variants are an infamous example of pointless differentiation. By all means, let's have bolt rifles, bolt carbines* and heavy bolt rifles to be different, but having several nigh identical looking variants of each is just too much. Same with the primaris plasma.
*which are the same size than classic bolters, so those can now be bolt carbines too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 19:31:17
Da Boss wrote: I don't want any primaris, and prefer the original models that I got into the hobby with.
So I just picked up what I want from the old range and finished out my space marine collection. I'm happy for Primaris to exist for all the other (probably greater number) of people who like them. I'd suggest to anyone who is upset about them to just finish out their space marine collections, or if they already have extensive collections, accept that it's not going to expand any more.
In any case, space marines are going to be available in the secondary market for years and years yet. I just don't see the reason to get annoyed about it, the old models are still available if you want them.
Yeah this makes sense to me. I've been having a great time building an army with cheap padly painted, damaged firstborn units and rescuing them with tons of superglue and black spraypaint. I'll be taking the army to tournaments and it won't be competative but I'm not bothered about that. I just wanna kill some primaris
Because it is pointless rule bloat that adds very little depth to the game whilst limiting modelling options.
And by that reasoning there shouldn't even be a Relic Terminator entry.
Indeed. There should be one terminator squad entry with options to take any weapons that come in any of the kits.
I think it's fun when things are special, when there's a distinct difference between things. I think adding granularity and options to a game is something that is more enjoyable. Having three different types of Terminator armour with their own strengths and weaknesses provides a choice. Lumping things that are distinct from one another into one catch-all unit is less creative, less fun, and just plain boring.
So you like having the seven thousand different primaris bolter variants now? This is the same thing.
As for Power Armour, the problems are twofold:
1. Power Armour tends to be mixed not just within squads but on individual Marines as well. You can have Marines with Mk.8 chest plates, Mk.6 legs and a Mk.7 helmet. Variation within squads is too high to account for that in rules.
And you should be able to similarly mix different marks of terminator armour in same squad as well. Hell, some chaos models have different marks mixed on one terminator. (Death Guard IIRC.)
2. The differences between power armour marks are not quite as stark as the clear differences between Cataphracti and Tartaros armour (same as the three main types of Mk.X power armour).
Nah. Differnces between marks of power armour definitely exist in the fluff. Mark III is more heavily armoured for example. It's the exact same thing.
It's one of those 'levels of detail' things that isn't something appropriate to a game of 40k's scale, especially when you tend to have far more power armour Marines compared to Terminators. I would apply the same thinking to Combi-Weapons, where the idea that they only ever got one shot never made any sense, as you can reload guns (a change I'm glad they made for more recent editions). In the 40kRPGs, Combi-Weapons get one shot and then have to spend time reloading. Power Armour Marks all have slightly different rules as well. For 40k scale, that's not necessary.
It certainly is a matter of taste. Personally I feel current 40K distinguishes equipment a tad too finely for its scale. I preferred when instead of power axes, swords and mauls, we had just power weapons, and you could model them however you wanted. Similarly the primaris bolter variants are an infamous example of pointless differentiation. By all means, let's have bolt rifles, bolt carbines* and heavy bolt rifles to be different, but having several nigh identical looking variants of each is just too much. Same with the primaris plasma.
*which are the same size than classic bolters, so those can now be bolt carbines too.
Agreed here too. I used to be really keen on the differences in how power weapons functioned, but I quite quickly fell out of love with it when certain weapons became taken just for their statline over their aesthetic.
I'm much more a fan of "generic profile that could fit multiple modelled options" style, instead of "multiple bespoke entries for very similar objects". I'd much rather see all the Primaris bolt rifles rolled into one, all the "basic" power weapons rolled into one, all the Terminators rolled into one, and so on, so forth.
Butchering Primaris is genuinely the thing I look forward to the most out of PUGs these days.
Hmm. So, when would you guys like your spikes delivered?
I already have a sizeable Black Legion army, thanks! But I think there's a poetry to the use of the "obsolete veterans" schooling the replacements. I get to enact my own little version of the movie Soldier, lol.
I do recall a game where a bunch of Chaos Spawn ravaged they're way through a number of Primaris and Custodes though. That was pretty gratifying too.
Butchering Primaris is genuinely the thing I look forward to the most out of PUGs these days.
Hmm. So, when would you guys like your spikes delivered?
I already have a sizeable Black Legion army, thanks! But I think there's a poetry to the use of the "obsolete veterans" schooling the replacements. I get to enact my own little version of the movie Soldier, lol.
I do recall a game where a bunch of Chaos Spawn ravaged they're way through a number of Primaris and Custodes though. That was pretty gratifying too.
Soldiers deserve to die at the hands of soldiers Sir. Time to teach those new fangled wimps the importance of experience. Show the Primaris no mercy.
Butchering Primaris is genuinely the thing I look forward to the most out of PUGs these days.
Hmm. So, when would you guys like your spikes delivered?
I already have a sizeable Black Legion army, thanks! But I think there's a poetry to the use of the "obsolete veterans" schooling the replacements. I get to enact my own little version of the movie Soldier, lol.
I do recall a game where a bunch of Chaos Spawn ravaged they're way through a number of Primaris and Custodes though. That was pretty gratifying too.
Soldiers deserve to die at the hands of soldiers Sir. Time to teach those new fangled wimps the importance of experience. Show the Primaris no mercy.
Which is exactly how I think of my CSM taking on Primaris. And how I feel gw should handle it in the lore, including the comparison to Soldier (love that movie). Or maybe CSM are more comparable to Snake Plisken: old warriors, once loyal to the System, now out to burn it all down.....
