Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 MinMax wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Is there precedent for GW naming one weapon bit two different things?

Sure - just look at the entire Primaris Marines line.

Or basically any relic weapon

 MinMax wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Is there precedent for GW naming one weapon bit two different things?

Sure - just look at the entire Primaris Marines line.

?? There are different bits for each of the 3 bespoke guns that Primaris get and they don't the same as regular bolters/plasma/etc.?

Relic weapons, I will give you. But that's obviously a completely different category.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They... they gave Conscripts Trans-Human and All is Dust.

They've lost the plot.

Gotta shift that new £29 set of 20-year old Cadians somehow.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They... they gave Conscripts Trans-Human and All is Dust.

They've lost the plot.

Yeaaaaaah. I guess they want to help sell the updated Cadian plastic kit? It's weird because if you'd expect anything to get a transhuman style strat, you'd expect Ogryns/Bullgryns, not regular squishy dudes. At least Catachans would make more sense.

Either way, very weird to see subfaction specific updates when their codices haven't even been released yet.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Pouring one out for my boy Lukas dying off-screen.

So far off-screen that it's been three whole editions now, when they just offed him from book swapping.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Pouring one out for my boy Lukas dying off-screen.

He lived as he died: Without a miniature.

Poor guy never stood a chance...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
Pouring one out for my boy Lukas dying off-screen.

He lived as he died: Without a miniature.

Poor guy never stood a chance...

I guess at least he's got a relic to remind everyone of him alongside Chekov's "no-run" pistol and Alrahem's claw of the desert tigers. Still nothing for Mogul Kamir.

What about 'ol Stumper Muckstart?

 Grimskul wrote:


Either way, very weird to see subfaction specific updates when their codices haven't even been released yet.

As there hasn't been a full re-set as in 2nd to 3rd or 7th to 8th, they have a Codex.

Historically, factions frequently went multiple "back-compatible" editions with a single Codex.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What about 'ol Stumper Muckstart?

You'll have to settle for Rein and Rauss, plus abhumans don't have the genetic purity for relics apparently.

Someone remind me why Guardsmen needed extra protection against lascannons

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Someone remind me why Guardsmen needed extra protection against lascannons

Because that'll be the next primaris unit and they need to start small before they start blasting the big things like they should be.

Who is shooting lascannons at Guardsmen...?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Who is shooting lascannons at Guardsmen...?

Abaddon, presumably.

It's all about the "Cadia broke before the Cadians did"-thing, Cadians are tough. Narrative, campaign, lore, stuff for Black Library fans.

 Grimskul wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They... they gave Conscripts Trans-Human and All is Dust.

They've lost the plot.

Yeaaaaaah. I guess they want to help sell the updated Cadian plastic kit? It's weird because if you'd expect anything to get a transhuman style strat, you'd expect Ogryns/Bullgryns, not regular squishy dudes. At least Catachans would make more sense.

Either way, very weird to see subfaction specific updates when their codices haven't even been released yet.

I mean conscripts are still overpriced and still worse then infantry squads but sure dump some more CP into them. Maybe if this was 7th edition they would be cool with horde armies but that isn’t really working right now in 9th. I just don’t see squads of bs5 str3 lasguns that fold to a wet dream in morale really doing much.

Also where’s my ork army of renown :p

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
This is probably a sort of stopgap/beta rules for nids and guard before they get full codex updates.

Neither are getting books this year, so this is basically Psychic Awakening 2.0 for these armies. Another another update before they get an actual update.

Yeah, and mostly specifically for Hive Fleet Leviathan. That's... super annoying.

The bloat is bad enough, but the specificity of the bloat makes it so much worse.

Well, I also (personally) think these feel more like Vigilus, less then PA.

PA (whether successful or not) felt like it was trying to update entire armies (Farsight supplement notwithstanding).

These, like Vigilus, feel like the writers just trying to ham up one fringe idea or another:


- Uh, all jetbike eldar army, lets write a specialist detachment with as many movement rules and synonyms for speed as we can fit.
- Uh, a Martyred Lady supplement, lets write as many rules around getting yourself killed and martyred puns as we can fit.

Etc..

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They... they gave Conscripts Trans-Human and All is Dust.

They've lost the plot.

I had no idea Cadian conscripts have T4, W2, 3+ statline. If you want example where GW lost its plot and smashed both the fluff and game balance, it's idiotic orkstodes buff (and W2 for squats). This does literally nothing 95% of the time, so nice hyperbole.

 MinMax wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Is there precedent for GW naming one weapon bit two different things?

Sure - just look at the entire Primaris Marines line.

Only if you believe that imbecile troll from 4chan and his bait post from a few months back. Because in RL, the whole point of primaris are different, clear game role weapons allowing for multiple playstyles SM were terrible at before despite doing so all the time in fluff. Intercessors alone are better rule writing, playstyle diversity and balance attempt than the whole SM range up to ~2015.

Also, funnily enough, what you said applies to squats. Name zero differences between bolter, bolt gun, and bolt carbine. Or twin bolter, combi bolter, and storm bolter. Or plasma cannon, heavy plasma cannon, and heavy plasma gun. Or [insert dozen more examples]

 Irbis wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They... they gave Conscripts Trans-Human and All is Dust.

They've lost the plot.

I had no idea Cadian conscripts have T4, W2, 3+ statline. If you want example where GW lost its plot and smashed both the fluff and game balance, it's idiotic orkstodes buff (and W2 for squats). This does literally nothing 95% of the time, so nice hyperbole.

 MinMax wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Is there precedent for GW naming one weapon bit two different things?

Sure - just look at the entire Primaris Marines line.

Only if you believe that imbecile troll from 4chan and his bait post from a few months back. Because in RL, the whole point of primaris are different, clear game role weapons allowing for multiple playstyles SM were terrible at before despite doing so all the time in fluff. Intercessors alone are better rule writing, playstyle diversity and balance attempt than the whole SM range up to ~2015.

Also, funnily enough, what you said applies to squats. Name zero differences between bolter, bolt gun, and bolt carbine. Or twin bolter, combi bolter, and storm bolter. Or plasma cannon, heavy plasma cannon, and heavy plasma gun. Or [insert dozen more examples]

I don't get why you're still on the hate bandwagon for Orks getting T5, if you haven't noticed, it hasn't exactly taken the meta by storm, and the trade-off came in both strats, points hikes and datasheet support. Conventional green tide is dead and Ork "boyz" are only good in two major specialist formats: Kommandos and Stormboyz, and those are largely in an objective grabbing or action maximizing format than actual killiness. Taking normal boyz is purely as a tax now and sadly grots can fulfill that function despite how bad they are.

 Irbis wrote:
I had no idea Cadian conscripts have T4, W2, 3+ statline.

Which has all of nothing to do with the rule they've given Cadians.

They could have done anything with a Guard update, focusing in on Guard army structure, heirarchy, types of commanders, order systems, platoon structure, the attached groups that aid the Guard (Ecclesiarchy, Commissariat, Enginseers, sanctioned Psykers, etc.), and so on.

But no: They just made a strat that makes some Guardsmen magically tougher.

 Irbis wrote:
This does literally nothing 95% of the time, so nice hyperbole.

Don't use words you don't understand.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

They could have done anything with a Guard update, focusing in on Guard army structure, heirarchy, types of commanders, order systems, platoon structure, the attached groups that aid the Guard (Ecclesiarchy, Commissariat, Enginseers, sanctioned Psykers, etc.), and so on.

But no: They just made a strat that makes some Guardsmen magically tougher.

100% agree with you. My unrealistic expectation would be that they do this for the actual Guard release. I'm not holding my breath, but still.

This reads to me pretty clearly as a stop-gap bone thrown to Guard and Nid players. Doubt we'll be seeing either book for quite a while.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Who is shooting lascannons at Guardsmen...?

Abaddon, presumably.

It's all about the "Cadia broke before the Cadians did"-thing, Cadians are tough. Narrative, campaign, lore, stuff for Black Library fans.

As a narrative fan, I don't see how making conscripts able to shrug off lascannons is a rule made for my enjoyment. It doesn't make any sense.

 Las wrote:

100% agree with you. My unrealistic expectation would be that they do this for the actual Guard release. I'm not holding my breath, but still.

This reads to me pretty clearly as a stop-gap bone thrown to Guard and Nid players. Doubt we'll be seeing either book for quite a while.

This isn't for Guard players.

It's for Cadian players.

In my eyes? This is awesome.
They found a way to differentiate Whiteshields from the trash squads that Conscripts are.

Really not seeing the big hoopla over "Cadia Stands!". It's not like it's baked into the unit like "Augmented Mount" is for Death Riders or characters/vehicles like Cult of Sacrifice is for DKoK as a Regimental trait.
Is it strong? Yeah. But this is the game as it stands now. These kinds of stratagems exist, sorry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rihgu wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Who is shooting lascannons at Guardsmen...?

Abaddon, presumably.

It's all about the "Cadia broke before the Cadians did"-thing, Cadians are tough. Narrative, campaign, lore, stuff for Black Library fans.

As a narrative fan, I don't see how making conscripts able to shrug off lascannons is a rule made for my enjoyment. It doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does. They keep on fighting, despite having a laser hole in them.

That's one of the downsides to lasweapons even! They can cauterize the wound, leaving you able to fight...just with a hole in you.

Would we really even be having this whole line of discussion if they had titled it without the lascannon bit? Who knows!

 Kanluwen wrote:
This isn't for Guard players.

It's for Cadian players.

Are you serious?

The level of cognitive dissonance you display on a daily basis is truly spectacular!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What about 'ol Stumper Muckstart?

One of the finest characters of 2nd Ed.

Didn't even cost enough points to give your opponent a Victory Point for killing him.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Who is shooting lascannons at Guardsmen...?

Abaddon, presumably.

It's all about the "Cadia broke before the Cadians did"-thing, Cadians are tough. Narrative, campaign, lore, stuff for Black Library fans.

As a narrative fan, I don't see how making conscripts able to shrug off lascannons is a rule made for my enjoyment. It doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does. They keep on fighting, despite having a laser hole in them.

That's one of the downsides to lasweapons even! They can cauterize the wound, leaving you able to fight...just with a hole in you.

Would we really even be having this whole line of discussion if they had titled it without the lascannon bit? Who knows!

Honestly, the ridiculousness of the "narrative" wouldn't have crossed my mind if they hadn't highlighted it. Normally I'm fine with excusing game mechanics as game mechanics but something about a Warhammer Community article pointing it out in the title of an article crossed the line for me.

I kind of wondered if they were having a bit of a tongue in cheek moment, given that people made Conscripts out to be the Most Terrifying Thing Ever back at the launch of 8E.

But yeah. I can get that stance, Rihgu.

Hostely "meh", I'm not even surprised anymore.

Fluff wise, I never liked Cadia. While the background idea of 20th century 40K Israel/South Korea on steroids was great, I think they entirely missed any opportunity to give the setting drawbacks or interesting plot points. IMHO Cadians were always just a band of Mary Sues. But then, thats what being Codex Poster boys gets you.

Cadias Fall had the potential to change all that, make Cadia to a martyrical Crusade/Fleet based faction, to drag Chaos into the gutters of their own extinction First and Only style. That would have been fresh to Guard and have the potential of awesomeness. But instead they focus on ..... Conscripts. The one thing Cadia sure has no big supply of, being a non existing populace and all that. And then there is the entire point of Conscipts being even more trashy in 9th than regular guard squads, since they can't even grant you being overkilled to save other units hide. It doesn't help that by todays standards the models are ugly, extra heads or not. I am certain the marketing department came up with that idea. Need to sell more overpriced models of drinking age before the next Codex in 2-5 years.

To the Cadian Players out there, I'm glad that you get at least something, but I sure would have hoped for it to be more meaningful. Fact is though, no level of supplement can fix the inherent problems the Guard has in 9th. And I think not even GW knows a way out, hence the Codex takes forever to get updated.

Holy recycled material Batman! Look at all the stuff they're asking us to buy again:

Yeah, even though I'm interested in the Deathwatch list, I'm not rebuying this material.
Also, with nids and guard getting crusade rules in here, that pretty much pushes their respective codexes way down the line.