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Togusa wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Not as sad as about last chance to buy vostroyans I wasn’t able to grab in time.
Still sucks…
I will take resculpts of catachans as an acceptable apology though.

Well depending on how things go, they really could easily do kits for the major six regiments (Vostroya, Valhalla, Steel Legion, Catachan, Cadian, Tallarn).

All they need to do is Infantry Kit---Command Squad----Heavy Weapon Team + 1 character per regiment. 24 kits total, could be done as a big update to the guard range. Overall, the vehicles are fine as is.

Don't forget a Mordian/Praetorian set - or a Mordian set, with an upgrade frame of Praetorian heads (and a bugle arm).

I've said before Necromunda shows they could do an IG regiment on one sprue, with a ton of weapon options. Throw in a set if kneeling legs and the current heavy weapon sprue and Bob's your uncle.

They could even do a command squad with heads for the most distinctive regiments and cover everyone.

This is like when you hear the news that some really old celebrity has died and your reaction is, “I didn’t know they were still alive!”

I'd settle for a new squad + command squad for the main guard regiments, and then maybe an upgrade sprue for things like sentinels, heavy weapons teams, etc.

Or heck, include bodies and arms in the squad sets that are compatible with those kits. Wracks come with arms that can be used for venoms and other ships.

 Irbis wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

the metal kits they kept on sale were those that were selling so slowly that they didnt sell out.

That's it. they swapped things to finecast when they ran out of the metal.

Nice conspiracy theory, but I doubt GW would have enough stock of these to last them 10 years on hand. Or somehow dig up leftover stock of white metal minis such as Diaznettes every time they offer MtO, I have handled freshly cast definitely metal ones myself. But maybe I am wrong and they really just randomly find things like metal bonesingers or 2nd edition farseers, I bought both brand new on last Eldar MtO

Yea they still cast metal models as needed(hell they couldn't do made to order　promise here if they didn't...).

Also metal moulds are dirt　cheap so one gets worn out, cheap to replace. It's the human work involved in casting process that costs.

Ill say feth them if I want, it's GW.

May they all join the Emperor at the side of His golden throne.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Not as sad as about last chance to buy vostroyans I wasn’t able to grab in time.
Still sucks…

Well, they had the MtO run three years ago. Weapon teams and single models had obscene prices, but the huge deal (including the limited wounded troopers) was fair. Actually it was really a deal - it was better than any Vostroyan box (including the first one).

 BlackoCatto wrote:
Ill say feth them if I want, it's GW.

Spoiler:

To be fair, the squad was there for 21 years without a noticable price hike (or none at all in some regions). And they even warn you and give a guaranteed delivery.

But it seems like even if GW are doing non-GW things they get the flak.

Maybe the Wargames Atlantic kit (the first one in the Death Fields series) lit a fire under GW so they retire the metals in favor of plastic Steel Legion kits. Highly unlikely though.

How viable is it for GW to have multiple plastic infantry variant boxes for IG. If they support the DKoK the same level as Cadian & Catachan it'll be three. Is there a market for more?

Viability is going to depend upon how the army is going to be set up going forwards.

If, say, a Guard army is always going to consist of Infantry Squad box+Command Squad Box+Heavy Weapon Squad Box? It won't really work. That's a minimum of 2 boxes just to make a single infantry or veteran squad, and a minimum of 3 boxes out there in general.

From what we've seen teased out for the DKoK via the artwork? There's 3 boxes, minimum, coming and at least two blisters. A Grenadier/Engineer box, Death Riders, and the Infantry Squad...which is missing its Heavy Weapon options(the DKoK from the Octarius box additionally had an additional sprue added to them which had the KT "specialist" upgrades). There's a very real chance that we're going to see Guard Infantry/Veteran Squads losing Heavy Weapon Teams in our next iteration of the book. DKoK didn't include them and surprisingly neither did the Cadian box repack. GSC Brood Brothers have 'em, but we don't as Guard players.

The most reliable rumor for upcoming releases right now? It has Cadians getting an updated Shock Troops kit next year, plus a plastic Kasrkin box, and a non-Cadian specific tank that is between a LR and Baneblade in size.

A different rumor has DKoK at something like 3-4 boxes and a few blisters(an Officer, a Death Rider officer, and a Grenadier Officer are the three I've seen mentioned).

Ancient Otter wrote:
Maybe the Wargames Atlantic kit (the first one in the Death Fields series) lit a fire under GW so they retire the metals in favor of plastic Steel Legion kits. Highly unlikely though.

How viable is it for GW to have multiple plastic infantry variant boxes for IG. If they support the DKoK the same level as Cadian & Catachan it'll be three. Is there a market for more?

Eh I dunno, it wasn't really particularly Steel Legion-esque other than the shared Nazi aesthetics. And if they wanted to do something about it, they'd either remove Steel Legion from the future Codex or sue WGA.

Yeah, the Raumjager kit doesn't really have anything that GW would be able to win a lawsuit on. They could bring a lawsuit, but they would lose and suffer damages in the process.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the Raumjager kit doesn't really have anything that GW would be able to win a lawsuit on. They could bring a lawsuit, but they would lose and suffer damages in the process.

Whether or not GW is legally in the right is entirely irrelevant - IP law cases are stupidly, extremely, expensive and as a result very few actually make it to court. Games Workshop has enough money and lawyers to bankrupt WGA before they get a single day in court. We've already seen this happen before with the Chapterhouse lawsuit, where GW lost big time and tanked their public perception but also bled the company they targeted dry and bankrupted them, thus achieving what they set out to do - eliminate competition. So it's a lot less 'what can GW legally do' and a lot more 'how much PR are they willing to blow doing it'.

And hey, we already know there's tons of people willing to blindly buy from them and defend them no matter how much PR they blow, in addition to millions of people entirely unaware they even did anything. So it's not like that's a reasonable concern for them.

Shame to see these go.

If you file the little aquilas off, they make great generic troopers. Loyalist, Traitor, Genestealer Cult, you name it.

They also stayed reasonably priced by GW standards for many years. And they're metal. The gods' own medium.

Every squad box I bought had one particular trooper model with a miscast, melted-looking lasgun, though. The same guy every time.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the Raumjager kit doesn't really have anything that GW would be able to win a lawsuit on. They could bring a lawsuit, but they would lose and suffer damages in the process.

Whether or not GW is legally in the right is entirely irrelevant - IP law cases are stupidly, extremely, expensive and as a result very few actually make it to court. Games Workshop has enough money and lawyers to bankrupt WGA before they get a single day in court.

WGA has some pretty big money/business partners behind it, probably bigger than GW based on whats been revealed. Thats part of how WGA is able to move production to the US. Those business partners aren't going to let their investment go up in smoke because GW decides to try to bully WGA through the legal system. GW also has a lot more to lose than WGA does, as was already demonstrated in the harm GW suffered by way of the Chapterhouse suit - beyond that the judge in the lawsuit basically warned GW from bringing bs IP cases forward again. The Chapterhouse lawsuit set pretty strong legal precedent as to what the basis for validity of these sorts of claims is, and Raumjager don't cross any of those lines. If GW tried bringing such a case against WGA to court, they are at risk of being forced to pay WGA (or any other company in a similar situation) millions in damages, fines, and legal fees as a result of the Chapterhouse fallout.

So yes, whether or not GW is in the right *is* legally relevant now, because they shot themselves in the foot pretty severely with the Chapterhouse suit and created a situation for themselves where the US legal system considers them to be borderline predatory in nature and is prepared to act against them if they step out of line again.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the Raumjager kit doesn't really have anything that GW would be able to win a lawsuit on. They could bring a lawsuit, but they would lose and suffer damages in the process.

Whether or not GW is legally in the right is entirely irrelevant - IP law cases are stupidly, extremely, expensive and as a result very few actually make it to court. Games Workshop has enough money and lawyers to bankrupt WGA before they get a single day in court.

So yes, whether or not GW is in the right *is* legally relevant now, because they shot themselves in the foot pretty severely with the Chapterhouse suit and created a situation for themselves where the US legal system considers them to be borderline predatory in nature and is prepared to act against them if they step out of line again.

Meh, I'm not sure if "complete victory on all fronts that their fanbase doesn't even remember" can be considered a shot in the foot.

What part of "GW is at risk of being targeted by the US legal system for predatory IP trolling" do you not understand?

Theres a reason that GW has not taken anyone to court since the Chapterhouse suit, even as other firms have gone farther than Chapterhouse ever did.

I also don't know where you think GW had a "complete victory" - it lost more claims in the lawsuit than it won and as a result of some of those losses had to essentially restructure its business model and cut a lot of its own content out of existence.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I also don't know where you think GW had a "complete victory" - it lost more claims in the lawsuit than it won and as a result of some of those losses had to essentially restructure its business model and cut a lot of its own content out of existence.

While they chose to cut content, I don't think any part of the legal judgement in the Chapterhouse case put a gun to their head and said they had to.

"No model, no rules" (and all the associated bullgak we're seeing) is GW management over-reacting to the outcome - rational minds were obviously not present in meetings after the case completed.

Yarrik is all alone now.

Anyone for whom this is the last draw decision to get them to buy a 3d printer, hit me up for some tips and tricks.

They're still up for purchase/MTO...

Funny enough, Yarrick sold out already. He made it into the "Selling Fast" category.

The Steel Legion squad hasn't.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still up for purchase/MTO...

Funny enough, Yarrick sold out already. He made it into the "Selling Fast" category.

The Steel Legion squad hasn't.

Of course, people aren't going to suddenly buy what is essentially GW trying to milk a few extra dollars. It had happened with Vostroyand supposedly last chance and then suddenly reappearing shortly for Christmas, squashing the notion that it was some molding issue.

How many people would really be expected to buy a squad for a sub-faction which has no other models available?

It's not like anyone can pick up an army or detachment of Steel Legion, and an individual squad can't be easily slotted into a plastic Guard army.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
How many people would really be expected to buy a squad for a sub-faction which has no other models available?

It's not like anyone can pick up an army or detachment of Steel Legion, and an individual squad can't be easily slotted into a plastic Guard army.

Old people like me could jump in on the Last Chance.

If the Holy Grail became available and GW offered a basic Praetorian squad, I'd be on it purely because of the numbers of the spare crew models and heavy/ special weapons I have sitting in cases waiting for reasonably priced lasgun Guardsmen to join them up with. I even have spare Lieutenant, Bugler and Standard Bearer models.

I daresay there are some Steel Legion army owners in the same position, especially if they were in on the initial release.

I use the Steel Legion for my mechanised squads, "ash waste rangers" and use Cadians for my Hive City Guard. Catachans for jungle Ork hunters. So I'm picking up a third squad to go with my third APC.

 Da Boss wrote:
I use the Steel Legion for my mechanised squads, "ash waste rangers" and use Cadians for my Hive City Guard. Catachans for jungle Ork hunters. So I'm picking up a third squad to go with my third APC.

Yeah, despite the seemingly strict separation of regiments, with a unifying color scheme and some kitbashing they can work together pretty well. I added some Cadians (i got as brood brothers in a GSC box) and Scions to my catachans and can see me adding 10 or 20 kriegs to the army as well. With the same base and similar colours this looks great and can either work as differentiation between veterans, infantry and conscripts or just as added diversity.

Bago wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I use the Steel Legion for my mechanised squads, "ash waste rangers" and use Cadians for my Hive City Guard. Catachans for jungle Ork hunters. So I'm picking up a third squad to go with my third APC.

Yeah, despite the seemingly strict separation of regiments, with a unifying color scheme and some kitbashing they can work together pretty well. I added some Cadians (i got as brood brothers in a GSC box) and Scions to my catachans and can see me adding 10 or 20 kriegs to the army as well. With the same base and similar colours this looks great and can either work as differentiation between veterans, infantry and conscripts or just as added diversity.

The first 2nd Ed Imperial Guard army I put together had greatcoat Valhallans line up with Tallarns. Either someone was very cold or someone was going to be sweating rivers!

I have no issue with different Imperial Guard regiments alongside each other. In my mind's eye, the two regiments in the example above may have actually been in Cadian style fatigues for that battle.

I ordered 3 of them to round out my force. My guard army consists of Cadians with the most basic of kitbashes (headswaps only, were some of the first models I built and painted), a whole bunch of ebay rescue Steel Legion, and the old 3rd edition Stormtrooper models. I figure a few extra squads will be a fun project when I get them.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
How many people would really be expected to buy a squad for a sub-faction which has no other models available?

It's not like anyone can pick up an army or detachment of Steel Legion, and an individual squad can't be easily slotted into a plastic Guard army.

Mixed regiments is eminently supported in fluff.

You can 100% easily slot into plastic guard army. You know how? Here's the super secret trick: You put the models to the table.

tneva82 wrote:
Mixed regiments is eminently supported in fluff.

You can 100% easily slot into plastic guard army. You know how? Here's the super secret trick: You put the models to the table.

There are some major advantages to that approach, even if you turn it up to 11:
- You get to collect and paint all different Regiments without having to paint the exact same miniature dozens of times
- You can easily identify which Squad a mini belongs to (mine have poker chip stripes on their bases, what is your solution to this problem?)
- You never have to worry about reposing your models
- Likely a rather smaller pile of shame (no duplicate I might need these squads in the future boxes)
- You can show other people the history of the Guard, first hand, without needing a second apartment for that

The only negative:
- You miss out on the horde look of absolute uniformity