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 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
I'm patiently awaiting the new Maggotkin battletome, and their one special box just revealed makes me happy. Based on the contents, it seems mixing demons and mortals will definitely be welcomed in the new book. It will also round out my collection perfectly.

585 pts for a CP priced box vs 750 pts from a SC! for BCR with just 5 models. GW pricing at its finest. Also sucks to be a First Legion player now seeing how they are removing the other two Nurgle SC! for this one.


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 Just Tony wrote:
As I play 3rd Ed. 40K and 6th Ed. WFB there really is only 1 boxed set that doesn't wind up with me needing to flip half the damn box to get rid of stuff that doesn't exist in my games. Not worth it, especially for those prices.

While Tony's post seems almost pointless given that he could only use SoB and he doesn't play or plays something compatible with anything else from the reveals, it does makes me wonder: what do you think will happen when TOW releases? Will it also get its own BFs each december? Special SC!-esque sets with cross-compatibility for AoS and TOW? new cross-compatibility at all? (I myself am starting to magnetize my Lizardmen's big dinosaurs feet to their bases so I can switch from round to rectangle ones) re-releases of some plastic stuff, like lots of HE and TK?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 posermcbogus wrote:

>tfw Japan

I actually really like the look of the sisters box (slaanesh mortals ain't bad either), but GW has a tradition of charging about 2-4 times what I'd ever be willing to pay for sisters in Japan, and I feel like this won't be an exception.
With a bit of luck it might mean that the bits market will have lots of spares from the slaanesh stuff, which would be fun for my 30k Emperor's Children (if I ever actually get around to making more than 1 of them lol)

Japan is uncharted territory for me.

VAYASEN wrote:
So I was thinking of starting a new Ork army at some point not far down the line....but ive seen a lot of comments on it above about it being a poor box.

Would you really not advise it or is it still decent in terms of models for your money to get started on an Ork army (im not going to be playing in tournaments etc, just v friends at home)

If you are mostly into the models for painting and hobby aspect it's a GREAT box, because the models are varied and all great. The grots and nobz kits are old but still hold up really well with a lot of character - I love painting grots, I have 40 of the little blighters, all of them uniquely converted from this kit and the Mek Grun crew. Nobz look awesome and are very fun to build with the big variety of components in the kit. The Shokk Attak Gun Mek is a really fun model to paint with a lot of character on it's own. The flyer looks great, and is fun to magnetize to cover several of the different jets, it's a lot of fun to practice different weathering techniques, which it takes very well. The Killtrike is one of my favourites of the new buggies - same here, it has a lot of character, and is fun to paint. I don't have any of the new Boys, but I suppose they do look better than the old gorilla-butt Boys. Boys are boys, and you'll always need at least some.

If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

 Oguhmek wrote:


If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

There is no box that will give you everything you need. If someone is looking for a boxed army that has literally everything they want and nothing that they don't want, then they're not getting an army because that box doesn't exist. The other alternative is to buy everything separately, at which point they aren't getting the 40% discount they get with this box, which is a far worse option because with this box they are getting the less optimal stuff literally for free anyway. Why not just advise getting this box plus whatever additions are necessary to make it into a competitive force?

Yeah sure, if you know what you are doing, you could.

I would still not call it a good box for beginners though because you need to know that you can only use a couple of the units in the box if you want a decent army.

My main complaint is that there is a lot of lost opportunity, what if the unit selection in the box actually built a decent force?

JWBS wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:


If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

There is no box that will give you everything you need. If someone is looking for a boxed army that has literally everything they want and nothing that they don't want, then they're not getting an army because that box doesn't exist. The other alternative is to buy everything separately, at which point they aren't getting the 40% discount they get with this box, which is a far worse option because with this box they are getting the less optimal stuff literally for free anyway. Why not just advise getting this box plus whatever additions are necessary to make it into a competitive force?

Indeed. It seems that GW wants to give players an incentive to build a new army (or eventually to add some more units to an existing one).
As we know GW is supporting competitive play but its not their only focus. I guess they want to support open and narrative play equally likely.

JWBS wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:


If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

There is no box that will give you everything you need. If someone is looking for a boxed army that has literally everything they want and nothing that they don't want, then they're not getting an army because that box doesn't exist. The other alternative is to buy everything separately, at which point they aren't getting the 40% discount they get with this box, which is a far worse option because with this box they are getting the less optimal stuff literally for free anyway. Why not just advise getting this box plus whatever additions are necessary to make it into a competitive force?

Because this box cannot be built into a competitive force without dropping parts of it. The deffkilla wartrike is a speed boss, which only affects the plane and has zero synergy with anything else. Nobz and boyz could built into a goff horde, but that would require a warboss which cannot be in the same detachment as a trike and the only reason to bring gretchin is when you don't want to bring boyz. You could go with a trukk boyz list, but then you have no need for gretchin or the SAG. For a bad moons shooty lists, the new boyz have too few shootas and nobz are a waste.

Essentially any army that contains all these models will absolutely be a bad one, no matter what you add. Usually the savings of these boxes is getting one or two kits free, but when you have to drop at least two kits no matter what you build from it, why bother buying a box full of sub-optimal choices in the first place? Just get the good stuff at full retail and spend less.

The only reason to buy this box is to round out a collection that can already support both kinds of Waaagh!, or when you want to gift orks to someone and you have no idea what they already own. It's not a good deal to start an army.

We all know how the math works. Add up the models you need and how much they would cost you outside the box, see how much extra you're paying for the models you don't need when getting the battleforce, decide if that's worth it. If the number is negative, it obviously is.

If the price is right I might go for the Necron Battleforce. Almost all models(except for the warriors) are ones I don't have currently(or have resin versions of).

I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

You realise these are NEVER about getting rid of excess stock?
Heck over the last two years GW has had trouble just keeping anything in stock and on the shelves, even in the UK, let alone overseas.

There's no money in GW having stock shipped back; unboxed and then reboxed into these. These are all brand new cast kits put into new boxes for selling. About the only "clearing old stock" that might happen is GW making a neat box to try and encourage more people to take up an army that might not be selling as well as the others

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

You realise these are NEVER about getting rid of excess stock?
Heck over the last two years GW has had trouble just keeping anything in stock and on the shelves, even in the UK, let alone overseas.

There's no money in GW having stock shipped back; unboxed and then reboxed into these. These are all brand new cast kits put into new boxes for selling. About the only "clearing old stock" that might happen is GW making a neat box to try and encourage more people to take up an army that might not be selling as well as the others

And some brand new armies too.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

Ah yes get rid of excess stock by doing more of it.


Sureiy you wouldn't make your claim unaware gw produces these sprues specifically for boxes? SURELY you wouldn't be shouting unsubstantiated claims without facts at hand?

tneva82 wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

Ah yes get rid of excess stock by doing more of it.


Sureiy you wouldn't make your claim unaware gw produces these sprues specifically for boxes? SURELY you wouldn't be shouting unsubstantiated claims without facts at hand?

They can just repack that stuff, they already have profit margins in the several hundred percents per box.

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

You realise these are NEVER about getting rid of excess stock?
Heck over the last two years GW has had trouble just keeping anything in stock and on the shelves, even in the UK, let alone overseas.

There's no money in GW having stock shipped back; unboxed and then reboxed into these. These are all brand new cast kits put into new boxes for selling. About the only "clearing old stock" that might happen is GW making a neat box to try and encourage more people to take up an army that might not be selling as well as the others

This notion that they plan these boxes by looking around at what is stacking up always makes me laugh. They spend millions of dollars on ERP software every year. For years they've noted the lack of production capacity and storage space being hinderances on growth. GW isn't some cottage industry.

As the prior poster noted, there is surely some marketing strategy – attempting to use boxes as enticements to start new armies – but it seems just as likely that they just produce extras of whatever is in their replenishment queue in at the end of Q3 as scrounge around some dusty old shelf of slow-selling stock. Especially this year given how new the AoS boxes are in terms of model release dates.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

Ah yes get rid of excess stock by doing more of it.


Sureiy you wouldn't make your claim unaware gw produces these sprues specifically for boxes? SURELY you wouldn't be shouting unsubstantiated claims without facts at hand?

They can just repack that stuff, they already have profit margins in the several hundred percents per box.

You can never have a profit margin over 100%.

You might mean markup.

https://simplesmallbiz.com/understanding-the-difference-between-profit-margin-and-markup/

 Oguhmek wrote:

VAYASEN wrote:
So I was thinking of starting a new Ork army at some point not far down the line....but ive seen a lot of comments on it above about it being a poor box.

Would you really not advise it or is it still decent in terms of models for your money to get started on an Ork army (im not going to be playing in tournaments etc, just v friends at home)

If you are mostly into the models for painting and hobby aspect it's a GREAT box, because the models are varied and all great. The grots and nobz kits are old but still hold up really well with a lot of character - I love painting grots, I have 40 of the little blighters, all of them uniquely converted from this kit and the Mek Grun crew. Nobz look awesome and are very fun to build with the big variety of components in the kit. The Shokk Attak Gun Mek is a really fun model to paint with a lot of character on it's own. The flyer looks great, and is fun to magnetize to cover several of the different jets, it's a lot of fun to practice different weathering techniques, which it takes very well. The Killtrike is one of my favourites of the new buggies - same here, it has a lot of character, and is fun to paint. I don't have any of the new Boys, but I suppose they do look better than the old gorilla-butt Boys. Boys are boys, and you'll always need at least some.

If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

It’s a good starter for an army, just not a “competitive” army. If you want to chase the meta then this isn’t the box for you. But as a starter army, you get 3 troops and and a couple of HQs, and a plane. All good.

Andykp wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:

VAYASEN wrote:
So I was thinking of starting a new Ork army at some point not far down the line....but ive seen a lot of comments on it above about it being a poor box.

Would you really not advise it or is it still decent in terms of models for your money to get started on an Ork army (im not going to be playing in tournaments etc, just v friends at home)

If you are mostly into the models for painting and hobby aspect it's a GREAT box, because the models are varied and all great. The grots and nobz kits are old but still hold up really well with a lot of character - I love painting grots, I have 40 of the little blighters, all of them uniquely converted from this kit and the Mek Grun crew. Nobz look awesome and are very fun to build with the big variety of components in the kit. The Shokk Attak Gun Mek is a really fun model to paint with a lot of character on it's own. The flyer looks great, and is fun to magnetize to cover several of the different jets, it's a lot of fun to practice different weathering techniques, which it takes very well. The Killtrike is one of my favourites of the new buggies - same here, it has a lot of character, and is fun to paint. I don't have any of the new Boys, but I suppose they do look better than the old gorilla-butt Boys. Boys are boys, and you'll always need at least some.

If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

It’s a good starter for an army, just not a “competitive” army. If you want to chase the meta then this isn’t the box for you. But as a starter army, you get 3 troops and and a couple of HQs, and a plane. All good.

...3 troops, one being one of the worst troops in the game, and the two others locked into an awful load-out. The HQs don't synergize with most of the other units in the game, like how the plane only works well with the boss who doesn't work with Boyz at all. It's a starter for a really bad army.

Andykp wrote:
It’s a good starter for an army, just not a “competitive” army. If you want to chase the meta then this isn’t the box for you. But as a starter army, you get 3 troops and and a couple of HQs, and a plane. All good.

I can't emphasize enough how wrong this. If you are looking to start orks from scratch DO NOT BUY THIS BOX. Get the combat patrol or beast snagga box instead. Buy a random assortment of buggies you like best. Get some kanz, dreads and a naut. Buy every box with a squig in it. Most of that won't result in a tournament winning army, but it will result in a coherent, functional army that actually has a chance of doing anything at all in a game.

While many armies allow just shoving whatever you like together and run with it, this is not true for orks. It's absolutely mandatory to field an army with a coherent theme, otherwise every game you play will be an absolute curb-stomp. If you build your army bad enough, you will be looking at turn 1-2 tablings regularly. I have seen over a dozen of ork players quit because they invested a ton of money into an incoherent mess of an army (often incentived by GW themselves) and then got frustrated.

This box is an incoherent mess, and you have no chance of building a working - not top tier competitive, working - army out of it unless you drop at least half of it. And even if you do, outside of the trike and the plane, all the units are "friendly game" levels of competitive.

If anyone is seriously looking into starting orks, come visit the ork tactics thread - we'll help you do it the proppa way.

The Ork Box is bait for the guillible, just like the "Limited time bundles" which are neither limited or bundles.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
The Ork Box is bait for the guillible, just like the "Limited time bundles" which are neither limited or bundles.

As I said elsewhere, the target demographic is probably "person that doesn't know 40k buying presents for an established ork player". I wouldn't mind being gifted this box as I could add them to my collection or at least use the bits. Buying it myself though? Nah.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think it's quite obvious these are partially about getting rid of excess stock and partially about getting you a deal that's good enough, but not so good you will buy multiple instead of buying more expensive kits separately.

I've become wary of this theory when Kill Team 2018 was launched with its deep discounts and people theorized they were getting rid of excess stock of unpopular kits, then it turned out they were colored plastic, so obviously all purpose cast for Kill Team.

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
It’s a good starter for an army, just not a “competitive” army. If you want to chase the meta then this isn’t the box for you. But as a starter army, you get 3 troops and and a couple of HQs, and a plane. All good.

I can't emphasize enough how wrong this. If you are looking to start orks from scratch DO NOT BUY THIS BOX. Get the combat patrol or beast snagga box instead. Buy a random assortment of buggies you like best. Get some kanz, dreads and a naut. Buy every box with a squig in it. Most of that won't result in a tournament winning army, but it will result in a coherent, functional army that actually has a chance of doing anything at all in a game.

While many armies allow just shoving whatever you like together and run with it, this is not true for orks. It's absolutely mandatory to field an army with a coherent theme, otherwise every game you play will be an absolute curb-stomp. If you build your army bad enough, you will be looking at turn 1-2 tablings regularly. I have seen over a dozen of ork players quit because they invested a ton of money into an incoherent mess of an army (often incentived by GW themselves) and then got frustrated.

This box is an incoherent mess, and you have no chance of building a working - not top tier competitive, working - army out of it unless you drop at least half of it. And even if you do, outside of the trike and the plane, all the units are "friendly game" levels of competitive.

If anyone is seriously looking into starting orks, come visit the ork tactics thread - we'll help you do it the proppa way.

There are people that play out there who don’t care so much about winning and just want a game and a cool looking army. The combat patrol box is another good place to start but this whole,” you must take x,y or z” nonsense is utter rubbish and a massive issue with dakka. It’s like there’s only one way play the game.

I’ve been an ORK player since 1st edition and find the tactics thread very disappointing, it does state it’s just for competitive play but it literally just promotes the same old boring army builds and won’t allow any other discussion at all. The other posters saying that the load out for the boyz is bad, it is what it is, Grots being a “bad” unit is irrelevant, they will feature in pretty much every ORK army I filed because they are integral part of an ORK army fluff wise. It isn’t optimised, but that doesn’t matter, the models are lovely. This box is for new folk buying a new army. If existing players want to grab a ‘bargain’ then they can but it’s not designed for expanding from an existing army.

So it’s not WRONG, as you say. It’s just wrong if you care about winning and not about having a cool looking army.

It makes sense to put in slow sellers without it literally being stock that's lying around (which it probably isn't).

The stuff that's already selling at full price doesn't require any help. They are trying to get people to buy is the less popular stuff at a lower price as well as the stuff that's doing fine.

Offer the things that are selling at a lower price and you probably just replace a sale you'd have made anyway.

Maybe they use a dart board

Honestly there are good arguments for putting bundles up for stuff that isn't selling powerfully and also for top selling things. You can bet there will be a marine box because they are popular and people want them and they always easily sell - that's easy to recover investment.

Then you've got slower selling forces where you use it to help encourage; that might jumpstart investment returns on those model lines

It might just be random or based on "who had one in the last few years" to spread it out. etc..



GW has a BIG bonus of many other firms in that their stock doesn't devalue over time. If anything it increases in value, even out of production things can generally remain stable or increase (about the only thing that won't is finecast and even that can hold its value for out of production and not replaced kits).



Ideally GW wants them to sell at a good rate so that they aren't left with stuff taking up shelf and warehouse space.

I don't know percentages, but I feel (my opinion) is that these make a good value to someone newer to the game who has not decided yet how they are going to optimize their lists for competitive tournaments. You get a smattering of models in a range so that you can try different lists over time. Also a decent value for people who buy to paint or want to display a chapter/waaaaaaaaghhhhh/ tomb world as a whole. So not so much geared for optimized player lists, but produced to get people to spend a little bit more now with the hopes that it gets them to grow their collections in a slightly different direction. Good Marketing. Plus all of these are already designed and available kits so there really is only the cost of boxing them up for an almost guaranteed sale.

Andykp wrote:
There are people that play out there who don’t care so much about winning and just want a game and a cool looking army. The combat patrol box is another good place to start but this whole,” you must take x,y or z” nonsense is utter rubbish and a massive issue with dakka. It’s like there’s only one way play the game.

I’ve been an ORK player since 1st edition and find the tactics thread very disappointing, it does state it’s just for competitive play but it literally just promotes the same old boring army builds and won’t allow any other discussion at all. The other posters saying that the load out for the boyz is bad, it is what it is, Grots being a “bad” unit is irrelevant, they will feature in pretty much every ORK army I filed because they are integral part of an ORK army fluff wise. It isn’t optimised, but that doesn’t matter, the models are lovely. This box is for new folk buying a new army. If existing players want to grab a ‘bargain’ then they can but it’s not designed for expanding from an existing army.

So it’s not WRONG, as you say. It’s just wrong if you care about winning and not about having a cool looking army.

If you enjoy having your orks blasted off the table in one turn, that's your thing. The vast majority of people don't, and especially new players rarely join for the beer and pretzels mentality from three decades ago.

I have been a victim of "I play since 1st edition and you can play anything you want" people like you that wasted my money when starting out by giving crap advice just like you did. I've also seen many people disappear from 40k who followed similar advice all throughout many editions, while people who start out with a functional army and branch out from there into whatever style of gaming they enjoy tend to stick around.

Misleading new players who don't know better into buying armies that are unable to win is malicious and harmful to the community.

Oh, and you are flat out lying about the content of the ork thread, so there is that.

In any case, your advice is literally "buy this box if you want to lose", which is the same as I'm saying. You just should more honest about it.

 CMLR wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The vast majority out there do, those who don't... eh, its a personal problem. Even then, plenty of discount e-retailers out there for you to keep an eye on and purchase from when preorder windows open. Last year I was still able to order the supposedly super rare, sold-out-in-5-seconds holiday battleforces 2 weeks after the release date without issue from the comfort of my living room for 20% off or better (especially those items that I was able to order from the UK to leverage exchange rates, there are ways around GWs region blocks if you get creative enough.. If your first thought is to go to GWs website to try to get something than you either lack imagination, experience/knowledge, or googling skills (or some combination thereof).

Imagine assuming e-retailers deliver anywhere outside Canada, USA and Europe.

The American flag next to your username indicates that you are white-knighting for people that probably don't need to be white-knighted for. Where there is a will, there is a way. You can absolutely order from retailers who don't deliver to your country through various forwarding services and intermediaries. I do it all the time. It comes at an additional cost, but then again its no different from the additional costs incurred from shipping and paying full retail from GW. As I said before, if your first thought is to go to GWs website to try to get something, you either lack imagination, experience/knowledge, or googling skills.

>tfw Japan
I actually really like the look of the sisters box (slaanesh mortals ain't bad either), but GW has a tradition of charging about 2-4 times what I'd ever be willing to pay for sisters in Japan, and I feel like this won't be an exception.
With a bit of luck it might mean that the bits market will have lots of spares from the slaanesh stuff, which would be fun for my 30k Emperor's Children (if I ever actually get around to making more than 1 of them lol)

Parcel Forwarders. Order form a discount retailer in the UK to a forwarding service based in Guernsey. You get the discount off the box price plus VAT release if you go through a retialer that is set up for that, that gives you something like 40% off MSRP on the UK price (which is already lower than the US price). Then forward it to Japan from Guernsey - it won't be cheap, but if you buy in large lots you can offset the cost through economy of scale/bulk, etc. and still not yourself a ~25% discount (shipping to the US, I don't now about rates to Japan) in the process.

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
There are people that play out there who don’t care so much about winning and just want a game and a cool looking army. The combat patrol box is another good place to start but this whole,” you must take x,y or z” nonsense is utter rubbish and a massive issue with dakka. It’s like there’s only one way play the game.

I’ve been an ORK player since 1st edition and find the tactics thread very disappointing, it does state it’s just for competitive play but it literally just promotes the same old boring army builds and won’t allow any other discussion at all. The other posters saying that the load out for the boyz is bad, it is what it is, Grots being a “bad” unit is irrelevant, they will feature in pretty much every ORK army I filed because they are integral part of an ORK army fluff wise. It isn’t optimised, but that doesn’t matter, the models are lovely. This box is for new folk buying a new army. If existing players want to grab a ‘bargain’ then they can but it’s not designed for expanding from an existing army.

So it’s not WRONG, as you say. It’s just wrong if you care about winning and not about having a cool looking army.

If you enjoy having your orks blasted off the table in one turn, that's your thing. The vast majority of people don't, and especially new players rarely join for the beer and pretzels mentality from three decades ago.

I have been a victim of "I play since 1st edition and you can play anything you want" people like you that wasted my money when starting out by giving crap advice just like you did. I've also seen many people disappear from 40k who followed similar advice all throughout many editions, while people who start out with a functional army and branch out from there into whatever style of gaming they enjoy tend to stick around.

Misleading new players who don't know better into buying armies that are unable to win is malicious and harmful to the community.

Oh, and you are flat out lying about the content of the ork thread, so there is that.

In any case, your advice is literally "buy this box if you want to lose", which is the same as I'm saying. You just should more honest about it.

Bloody hell drop it man, no one gives a rats ass if you want to be competitive! Its not about you its about different people being happy with different things. Stop pooping on other people pools!

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Andykp wrote:
There are people that play out there who don’t care so much about winning and just want a game and a cool looking army. The combat patrol box is another good place to start but this whole,” you must take x,y or z” nonsense is utter rubbish and a massive issue with dakka. It’s like there’s only one way play the game.

I’ve been an ORK player since 1st edition and find the tactics thread very disappointing, it does state it’s just for competitive play but it literally just promotes the same old boring army builds and won’t allow any other discussion at all. The other posters saying that the load out for the boyz is bad, it is what it is, Grots being a “bad” unit is irrelevant, they will feature in pretty much every ORK army I filed because they are integral part of an ORK army fluff wise. It isn’t optimised, but that doesn’t matter, the models are lovely. This box is for new folk buying a new army. If existing players want to grab a ‘bargain’ then they can but it’s not designed for expanding from an existing army.

So it’s not WRONG, as you say. It’s just wrong if you care about winning and not about having a cool looking army.

If you enjoy having your orks blasted off the table in one turn, that's your thing. The vast majority of people don't, and especially new players rarely join for the beer and pretzels mentality from three decades ago.

I have been a victim of "I play since 1st edition and you can play anything you want" people like you that wasted my money when starting out by giving crap advice just like you did. I've also seen many people disappear from 40k who followed similar advice all throughout many editions, while people who start out with a functional army and branch out from there into whatever style of gaming they enjoy tend to stick around.

Misleading new players who don't know better into buying armies that are unable to win is malicious and harmful to the community.

Oh, and you are flat out lying about the content of the ork thread, so there is that.

In any case, your advice is literally "buy this box if you want to lose", which is the same as I'm saying. You just should more honest about it.

Bloody hell drop it man, no one gives a rats ass if you want to be competitive! Its not about you its about different people being happy with different things. Stop pooping on other people pools!

I don't see why anyone would be happy with an awful, unplayable army, that's just called having very low standards.

 Jidmah wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:


If you primary focus is the gaming aspect I would not recommend you to get this box. I'd rather buy a more focused force, depending on the playstyle and klan you want to run. Speedwaagh or regular Waagh? Beastsnaggas? Vehicles or green tide? There are lots of options - but this box won't give you a useful force, the units are much too random and/or useless, without any synergies between them, no transports etc.

There is no box that will give you everything you need. If someone is looking for a boxed army that has literally everything they want and nothing that they don't want, then they're not getting an army because that box doesn't exist. The other alternative is to buy everything separately, at which point they aren't getting the 40% discount they get with this box, which is a far worse option because with this box they are getting the less optimal stuff literally for free anyway. Why not just advise getting this box plus whatever additions are necessary to make it into a competitive force?

Because this box cannot be built into a competitive force without dropping parts of it....Usually the savings of these boxes is getting one or two kits free, but when you have to drop at least two kits no matter what you build from it, why bother buying a box full of sub-optimal choices in the first place?

Because it's all free. Everything you drop will be something you've effectively paid nothing for, and this is the worst case scenario where you're a WAAC player or competitive player or even a player at all. Many people don't fall into either of these categories (collectors, painters, casual players), and even the ones that do fall into these categories aren't losing anything by getting free miniatures, in fact they can just sell them on if they can be bothered to do so, and so they're actually gaining something.