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Well, none of those interest me, so I am kind of relieved! The Death Guard one comes the closest but I already have Word Bearers and I don't feel the need to double dip despite the Death Guard being pretty cool in the Siege of Terra books.

All the discussion about how suitable they are as starter armies?

Why?

When is a noob going to get chance to buy something like this at random in a month's time with their christmas money?

We all know they'll be bought out by the whales in a few minutes (maybe hours) of release.
I mean chaosomega already listed about £2000 he was going to drop on them.

Is this really targetted by GW for new players? Or a slight bargain for the whales to stash away.

In the past some have lasted well into and beyond Christmas - heck there have been some that lasted so long they made it to the next Christmas!

A fair number will be bought as presents to give new (and old) players at Christmas

 CragHack wrote:
Depends on how limited they will be, I will take multiples to sell for profit later

Tell me you're a toolbag scalper without telling me you're a toolbag scalper.

 Overread wrote:
In the past some have lasted well into and beyond Christmas - heck there have been some that lasted so long they made it to the next Christmas!

Store ontabletop still have 35 of the KO set from last year

https://store.ontabletop.com/product/kharadron-overlords-battleforce-barak-nar-skyfleet/

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Is this really targetted by GW for new players?

There's a big difference between 'new player' and 'new army'. Quite often boxes like this is what tips people from "I like that faction but don't want to pay full price for another army" to "oh cool ~£100 buys me nearly 1000pts, sold!".

I really hope no new players look at the ork one, it’s a huge trap.

So I was thinking of starting a new Ork army at some point not far down the line....but ive seen a lot of comments on it above about it being a poor box.

Would you really not advise it or is it still decent in terms of models for your money to get started on an Ork army (im not going to be playing in tournaments etc, just v friends at home)

VAYASEN wrote:
So I was thinking of starting a new Ork army at some point not far down the line....but ive seen a lot of comments on it above about it being a poor box.

Would you really not advise it or is it still decent in terms of models for your money to get started on an Ork army (im not going to be playing in tournaments etc, just v friends at home)

If I were starting Orks I'd consider getting it for fun games and for the models. Model "power" goes up and down all the time through editions and such. What's trash this week is superpowered next month kind of things.
Internet chatter does tend to steer toward the most tactically sound choices.


Also don't forget before those models even hit the battlefield you'll have hours of fun building and painting them up.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
All the discussion about how suitable they are as starter armies?

Why?

When is a noob going to get chance to buy something like this at random in a month's time with their christmas money?

We all know they'll be bought out by the whales in a few minutes (maybe hours) of release.
I mean chaosomega already listed about £2000 he was going to drop on them.

Is this really targetted by GW for new players? Or a slight bargain for the whales to stash away.

It really isn't targeted. GW happily puts things up to sale. The gatekeeping on 'who they're for' is just a weird construct by some posters.
I don't know if they think it will make people not buy them so they can get theirs, or what. But it comes up every year without fail.

VAYASEN wrote:
So I was thinking of starting a new Ork army at some point not far down the line....but ive seen a lot of comments on it above about it being a poor box.

Would you really not advise it or is it still decent in terms of models for your money to get started on an Ork army (im not going to be playing in tournaments etc, just v friends at home)

Depends if you like the look of everything in it. It's ~£193.00 worth of models but there's no real focus - the trike is the only vehicle, grots don't really do anything, the SAG isn't amazing... (and you probably want another box or two of Boys to bulk them out / sort out the weapon options)

Voss wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Get up early on preorder day would be my advice, I haven't seen any such promise for these (some said they weren't even coming until the announcement a week ago)

I don't understand this advice. Why aren't you guys preordering through your local indy stores? You don't pay shipping, you'll probably get a discount, and (assuming you have a good relationship with the staff) you can put your orders in up front (like now) before its even able to be ordered through the webshop. You'll be ahead of the game, unlike the shmucks who buy everything direct.

Because around these parts GW has screwed over the local stores to the point that they can't guarantee they'll get boxed sets in at all, let alone multiple ones for customers who want one. For me, the closest one generally won't even do it. It took 3 in person trips to the store to get Dominion ordered, and it was only 'probably' over the course of the week and a half until the day before release (because it literally came in Friday's shipment). Of the four stores I can get to in an hour or so, only one does a discount at all, and its barely worth the drive. The last two times I tried to preorder stuff, they couldn't get it. They still have (as far as I know) Indomitus boxed sets, but everything after that has been a nightmare, and the owner complains about the GW rep ghosting him on new products.

Pre-ordering direct from Indy stores just isn't a reliable option.
Granted, getting things direct from GW is slow and laborious these days too, but its often the workable option if its really on the wish list.

Its just odd to hear that. Also in the US, never have an issue, 100 reliability for me. I preorder (i.e. text the shop owner and tell him what I want) the moment a sunday preview is released and am usually the first in line for whatever is coming out as a result. He is johnny on the spot in putting his orders in on time instead of waiting until the deadline to put his orders in, and even if GW allocates his order down (which they usually do) I still can usually get everything I want because, again, first in line. Sometimes they allocate down to 1 box, but oh well, I either find another retailer that has them or if its not limited I wait until they come back around for sale again and get them then.

Depending on GW online sales to get you what you want is perhaps the *least* reliable way of engaging with this hobby, given all the issues people have had over the years with stuff selling out, etc. If your solution is to get up early and wait for the preorders to go live and hope you can complete checkout faster than everyone else, you don't have a reliable source, you have a lottery.

 CMLR wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Get up early on preorder day would be my advice, I haven't seen any such promise for these (some said they weren't even coming until the announcement a week ago)

I don't understand this advice. Why aren't you guys preordering through your local indy stores?

Imagine assume everyone has access to one of those.

The vast majority out there do, those who don't... eh, its a personal problem. Even then, plenty of discount e-retailers out there for you to keep an eye on and purchase from when preorder windows open. Last year I was still able to order the supposedly super rare, sold-out-in-5-seconds holiday battleforces 2 weeks after the release date without issue from the comfort of my living room for 20% off or better (especially those items that I was able to order from the UK to leverage exchange rates, there are ways around GWs region blocks if you get creative enough.. If your first thought is to go to GWs website to try to get something than you either lack imagination, experience/knowledge, or googling skills (or some combination thereof).

 Polonius wrote:
GW is really putting the pinch of scalpers. Stuff like Dominion, or even Octarius, are simply not selling out that fast, if at all. I saw a large FLGS blow out Indomitus last black friday for barely above cost.

It's getting harder to make a buck that way.

This is going to backfire spectacularly for GW in the near future. Just you wait. A lot of stores took a bath on Dominion as well as a number of other products released under the made to order/preorder promise policy that they started earlier this year. In one case a local store (also a major online shop) ordered however many copies of Dominion, received their initial shipment of 50 or so copies, sold some amount of them, and then a month later received a shipping notice for the remaining 130+ copies of the box set while they still had at least a dozen still on the shelf. They're practically giving Dominion away as door prizes at events to try to get rid of them. Similar happened with Octarius, etc (not to the same severity because they scaled back their orders since then), but it used to be that they would order up to their allocation because they knew that the supply squeeze meant that they would sell out immediately whether it be in store or online, either as a result of FOMO or just natural demand, now they are more and more only ordering what they think they can sell. Other retailers in the area have taken similar approaches as of late as well. The end result for GW is that theres going to be a decline in sales as their artificially inflated sales bubble begins to deflate.

We all know they'll be bought out by the whales in a few minutes (maybe hours) of release.
I mean chaosomega already listed about £2000 he was going to drop on them.

Absolutely. Been doing this for a long time, I basically collect every faction in the game at this point (40k, not so much for AoS though I collect all of Death, most of Chaos, and about half of destruction - only thing I don't really care for is Order though I do have stormcast), 98% of my purchases are start collectings/combat patrols/battleforces/battleboxes. Very rarely do I go out and buy an individual kit, I'm all about maximizing the number of minis I can get for a dollar. The holiday battleforces are my superbowl.

I would get the marine one, if the price wasn’t going to be so much.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Voss wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Get up early on preorder day would be my advice, I haven't seen any such promise for these (some said they weren't even coming until the announcement a week ago)

I don't understand this advice. Why aren't you guys preordering through your local indy stores? You don't pay shipping, you'll probably get a discount, and (assuming you have a good relationship with the staff) you can put your orders in up front (like now) before its even able to be ordered through the webshop. You'll be ahead of the game, unlike the shmucks who buy everything direct.

Because around these parts GW has screwed over the local stores to the point that they can't guarantee they'll get boxed sets in at all, let alone multiple ones for customers who want one. For me, the closest one generally won't even do it. It took 3 in person trips to the store to get Dominion ordered, and it was only 'probably' over the course of the week and a half until the day before release (because it literally came in Friday's shipment). Of the four stores I can get to in an hour or so, only one does a discount at all, and its barely worth the drive. The last two times I tried to preorder stuff, they couldn't get it. They still have (as far as I know) Indomitus boxed sets, but everything after that has been a nightmare, and the owner complains about the GW rep ghosting him on new products.

Pre-ordering direct from Indy stores just isn't a reliable option.
Granted, getting things direct from GW is slow and laborious these days too, but its often the workable option if its really on the wish list.

Its just odd to hear that. Also in the US, never have an issue, 100 reliability for me. I preorder (i.e. text the shop owner and tell him what I want) the moment a sunday preview is released and am usually the first in line for whatever is coming out as a result. He is johnny on the spot in putting his orders in on time instead of waiting until the deadline to put his orders in, and even if GW allocates his order down (which they usually do) I still can usually get everything I want because, again, first in line. Sometimes they allocate down to 1 box, but oh well, I either find another retailer that has them or if its not limited I wait until they come back around for sale again and get them then.

Most around here simply won't take risks like that. One still tries, but the GW rep (the one who ghosts the store owner) has been a problem for the last year and a half or so and they don't get what they ask for, or even what they were promised.

The rests are primarily Comic and Magic shops, and GW is a sideline. They won't order specialty product just to have it around, it ties up too much money in stock that doesn't reliably move.
And for preorders, there has been a growing problem getting them, and they don't want to take money and then give it back if it falls through. So they just... don't. The few older stores I know have gotten more and more disgruntled with GW any and they way they handle 'direct only' items and minimum stock levels. Investing in GW product lines is often a bad deal for the smaller stores.

Depending on GW online sales to get you what you want is perhaps the *least* reliable way of engaging with this hobby, given all the issues people have had over the years with stuff selling out, etc. If your solution is to get up early and wait for the preorders to go live and hope you can complete checkout faster than everyone else, you don't have a reliable source, you have a lottery.

I don't disagree, but its the situation at hand. (though getting up early isn't a factor- preorders come in the afternoon). Its less of a lottery and more just something I let pass me by. I made the effort for Dominion, but most of the boxed sets aren't enough. So...I buy less. /shrug

chaos0xomega wrote:

The vast majority out there do, those who don't... eh, its a personal problem. Even then, plenty of discount e-retailers out there for you to keep an eye on and purchase from when preorder windows open. Last year I was still able to order the supposedly super rare, sold-out-in-5-seconds holiday battleforces 2 weeks after the release date without issue from the comfort of my living room for 20% off or better (especially those items that I was able to order from the UK to leverage exchange rates, there are ways around GWs region blocks if you get creative enough.. If your first thought is to go to GWs website to try to get something than you either lack imagination, experience/knowledge, or googling skills (or some combination thereof).

Imagine assuming e-retailers deliver anywhere outside Canada, USA and Europe.

As I play 3rd Ed. 40K and 6th Ed. WFB there really is only 1 boxed set that doesn't wind up with me needing to flip half the damn box to get rid of stuff that doesn't exist in my games. Not worth it, especially for those prices.

 Just Tony wrote:
Not worth it, especially for those prices.

Well... duh?

I mean, given you don't actually play the games that most of these units are played in, of course they're not going to be worth it to you.

 CMLR wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The vast majority out there do, those who don't... eh, its a personal problem. Even then, plenty of discount e-retailers out there for you to keep an eye on and purchase from when preorder windows open. Last year I was still able to order the supposedly super rare, sold-out-in-5-seconds holiday battleforces 2 weeks after the release date without issue from the comfort of my living room for 20% off or better (especially those items that I was able to order from the UK to leverage exchange rates, there are ways around GWs region blocks if you get creative enough.. If your first thought is to go to GWs website to try to get something than you either lack imagination, experience/knowledge, or googling skills (or some combination thereof).

Imagine assuming e-retailers deliver anywhere outside Canada, USA and Europe.

>tfw Japan

I actually really like the look of the sisters box (slaanesh mortals ain't bad either), but GW has a tradition of charging about 2-4 times what I'd ever be willing to pay for sisters in Japan, and I feel like this won't be an exception.
With a bit of luck it might mean that the bits market will have lots of spares from the slaanesh stuff, which would be fun for my 30k Emperor's Children (if I ever actually get around to making more than 1 of them lol)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Not worth it, especially for those prices.

Well... duh?

I mean, given you don't actually play the games that most of these units are played in, of course they're not going to be worth it to you.

The Sisters box has everything playable in 3rd. Everything. That's the only one that's plausible. The Ork one comes close, and the Marines one would also fit the pistol if I didn't have a rather massive Firstborn army already. I guess I was hoping for more Troops units and a smattering of the other three categories along with some transports. Any deal I look for is through the lens of being able to be used through any edition, and that narrows my purchases.

There's an equivalent of Sacresants in 3rd?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There's an equivalent of Sacresants in 3rd?

I saw Celestians and figured at worst they were convertible. Apparently NONE of the kits are 100% useable in older editions...

 Just Tony wrote:
As I play 3rd Ed. 40K and 6th Ed. WFB there really is only 1 boxed set that doesn't wind up with me needing to flip half the damn box to get rid of stuff that doesn't exist in my games. Not worth it, especially for those prices.

that is an incredibly specific niche.

My thoughts on the 40k battleforces:

-Marines: This is the only one that I might actually buy. My Ravenwing wouldn't mind a second Storm Speeder, and my Deathwing or even my Space Wolves wouldn't mind some Bladeguard. And I definitely want some Heavy Intercessors for my DA; I don't actually own any currently. The Intercessors and Assault Intercessors are kinda meh for me, but I can make use of them. Ditto for the Captain. It's definitely a solid start to a Marine army for someone starting out with the game, even though little of it is cutting edge competitive.

-Sisters: I play Sisters, but this box is probably a hard pass for me. I simply don't need any of it except for maybe the Sacresants. If Immolators and/or Exorcists were to get a significant points cut, maybe I'd be more inclined. I don't really need more basic Battle Sisters either, or a second Dogmata. I feel like this force would be massively more appealing if, as others have said, one of the vehicles was replaced with another squad or two. I would also have put in a Canoness instead of a Dogmata. As is, there is no HQ in the box, which seems like a no-no as a starter force.

-AdMech: If I was going to start AdMech, I would jump all over this. This set plus a Combat Patrol would likely be a great jumping-off point for the army, especially if you could also track down one or both of the old Start Collecting boxes. Not going to get this myself as I have no plans to start AdMech, but the box definitely gets a thumbs-up from me.

-Death Guard: This box is perhaps the worst of the lot, but that isn't to say it's bad (it's just 6th out of 6 to me). The lack of an HQ makes it a poor jumping-off point for an army (why not just put a Daemon Prince in instead of the two single Plague Marine hero guys?), but if you were to combine this with the Combat Patrol you've probably got a decent core army. I guess there aren't any Death Guard HQ's available in plastic besides Typhus, so they were in a weird spot with this one.

-Necrons: If I played Necrons, I would probably grab this one. It's got a lot of cool stuff in it, even if it's not all top-tier competitive stuff. Again, this plus the Combat Patrol would be a great start to the army, especially if you also had the Necrons halves of the Recruit and Elite edition starters.

-Orks: I actually really like this box, especially for anyone starting the army. 20 of the new Boyz makes a great core, plus some Gretchin and Nobz for variety so the painting doesn't get too stale (so long as you don't mind green, that is! ). The leader choices are decent, too, as the Deffkilla is a fun little unit and the Mek with Shokk Attack Gun is a perennial favorite even if it's not that good. And the Ork flyer kit is one of the coolest in their whole range. Just a great little box, this one. Like basically all the others, it combos well with the Patrol box and those two boxes would be how I would choose to start Orks (if I were going to start my own WAAAGH!, that is).

I'm patiently awaiting the new Maggotkin battletome, and their one special box just revealed makes me happy. Based on the contents, it seems mixing demons and mortals will definitely be welcomed in the new book. It will also round out my collection perfectly.

ERJAK wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
As I play 3rd Ed. 40K and 6th Ed. WFB there really is only 1 boxed set that doesn't wind up with me needing to flip half the damn box to get rid of stuff that doesn't exist in my games. Not worth it, especially for those prices.

that is an incredibly specific niche.

Once GW makes a new ruleset I like I'll change it up. For now I refuse to play any game I don't enjoy, and I CERTAINLY don't enjoy AOS or modern 40K...

Death is one of my favorite factions in AoS, and a friend recently got me Nagash for my Birthday...so what a nice time for that Bonereaper box to come along. Don't mind if I do!

I want the sister’s and AdMech one.
Haven’t played 40k in many years, but these army boxes consist 100% of the models I want to own anyway.
Does Sister’s army box + Combat patrol make a decent core?

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I want the sister’s and AdMech one.
Haven’t played 40k in many years, but these army boxes consist 100% of the models I want to own anyway.
Does Sister’s army box + Combat patrol make a decent core?

Somewhat. The combat patrol is mono build (apart from the Rhino) so it kind of makes for a bit wonky squad loadouts. The arco's and Repentia in the patrol are not that useful, but you'll have no problem filling a patrol detachment with these combined, although you'll have too many Elite units. You miss a single HQ for it to be a Battalion detachment. It wouldn't be tournament competitive, but fine for regular matched play games.

 Just Tony wrote:
Once GW makes a new ruleset I like I'll change it up. For now I refuse to play any game I don't enjoy, and I CERTAINLY don't enjoy AOS or modern 40K...

Nothing wrong with that, it's just weird to claim that boxes have no value when they're for games you admittedly do not play.