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Actually makes them usable now. The warp spider gun is strong and with a -2 and plenty of shots they can definitely do some damage. The swooping hawks could be useful with their mortal wounds on units that are otherwise very difficult to wound. TH and shield terminators for example. The boost to S4 was greatly needed as they suffered from the usual “I can’t kill a damn thing without doom and jinx helping me” syndrome.

Well reliability of those still super low

A lot of these rumors are such bologna it's incredible. Most of it is purely ripped from the DE book, and anything that couldn't be extrapolated that way is where the info just reads really really wish listy lol.

I mean, why would one flavor of guardian have mini transhuman? Or the terrible stats on the pulse laser lol. I guess it's just better then a bright lance in every way now, despite what the fluff says.

Kabalytes received a 4+ so it's pretty easy to predict guardians having a 4+ as well, which makes it fairly obvious that every aspect will have a 3+ you know, like incubi. I'd also be shocked if aspects didn't natively hit on a 2+ either in melee or shooting (not both) like incubi.

The 5++ and 4+ max to wound on the serpent sounds pretty plausible as well although I'd wager it's not all the serpent shield that does it as I'd imagine all eldar vehicles gaining a 5++ and the shield just makes it harder to wound.

Phoenix lord rumors look like they were ripped straight off Drazhar etc. Again, which makes sense and makes it pretty obvious to come draw prediction from.

I'd really be tempering my expectations based on the rest of this crap though. It takes really good players 30 minutes just to figure out how the detachment rules work in a 9th ed book yet this dude somehow casually flipped through everything in that time and remembers every detail? lol

Hope everyone has a great holiday and is having fun, I know these can be fun but I also know how frustrating they are for some folks so thought I'd chime in.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
40k needs a reset and a do-over next edition, it's too lethal, everything's too cramped, every gun is used against everything and every faction has 5 layers of special rules. Nothing good's gonna come out of an endless cycle of buffing units durability and then buffing how killy all the weapons are to make up for it.

40k has needed a reset since 6th. Instead we got formations that forced you to buy a bunch of extra models, psychic/summoning nonsense, 8th/9th where you can take half of someone's army off the table in a single round of shooting, and 3,287 stratagems that used to be wargear/relics/USRs

I love how people like to pretend it was formations that were the problem.

That it's has nothing to do with several armies having effectively been limping along, conceptually and in terms of their design mentalities, since 3E.

Toofast wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
40k needs a reset and a do-over next edition, it's too lethal, everything's too cramped, every gun is used against everything and every faction has 5 layers of special rules. Nothing good's gonna come out of an endless cycle of buffing units durability and then buffing how killy all the weapons are to make up for it.

40k has needed a reset since 6th. Instead we got formations that forced you to buy a bunch of extra models, psychic/summoning nonsense, 8th/9th where you can take half of someone's army off the table in a single round of shooting, and 3,287 stratagems that used to be wargear/relics/USRs

Kanluwen wrote:I love how people like to pretend it was formations that were the problem.

That it's has nothing to do with several armies having effectively been limping along, conceptually and in terms of their design mentalities, since 3E.

See the underlined part? That means that he was very literally not saying or pretending that formations were the problem, rather that instead of a fix for the problems, we got formations (and other stuff).

 Albertorius wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
40k needs a reset and a do-over next edition, it's too lethal, everything's too cramped, every gun is used against everything and every faction has 5 layers of special rules. Nothing good's gonna come out of an endless cycle of buffing units durability and then buffing how killy all the weapons are to make up for it.

40k has needed a reset since 6th. Instead we got formations that forced you to buy a bunch of extra models, psychic/summoning nonsense, 8th/9th where you can take half of someone's army off the table in a single round of shooting, and 3,287 stratagems that used to be wargear/relics/USRs

Kanluwen wrote:I love how people like to pretend it was formations that were the problem.

That it's has nothing to do with several armies having effectively been limping along, conceptually and in terms of their design mentalities, since 3E.

See the underlined part? That means that he was very literally not saying or pretending that formations were the problem, rather that instead of a fix for the problems, we got formations (and other stuff).

And did you read the rest of the post made?

Or the one that I made?

Formations, etc had very little to do with the actual problems inherent with a system that has not made meaningful stat or conceptual changes to certain WHOLE ARMIES for who knows how long.

The one I quoted, where you said that people like to pretend all the problem was the formations and went ranting on the other problems, while right below the only post in a while that talked about it, precisely to say that it wasn't?

Yep. Kinda quoted both, in full, actually. And what the post said is that before all the stated, the game was already fethed.

This thread is for talking about Eldar leaks not formations.

So what, Corsairs and Guardian equivalents will be troops?

This doesn't sound believable.

So just guardians for troops? Dire Avengers are backbone of the craftword army. This makes no sense.

Lots of salt on this one.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
So what, Corsairs and Guardian equivalents will be troops?

This doesn't sound believable.

I never liked avengers as troops. Just because theyre the most popular aspect doesn't mean there are that many. All aspects are the elite fighting force while the guardians form the core.

Only places like Biel tann can mass a full army of aspects as standard.

And with all the different force orgs you can use that's not going to be a big deal

 Nevelon wrote:
So just guardians for troops? Dire Avengers are backbone of the craftword army. This makes no sense.

Lots of salt on this one.

And the Harlequin Troupe, potentially.

Well if any of the guardian leaks were true, you kind of leave DA without a home unless you buff the living crap out of them, at which point they basically would have to be an elite by definition lol.

Can't imagine them being less then 14-15 ppm with all that gravy added on top.

Yeah, that'd be reaaaallly weird for them to make DA elites.

Finally Dire Avengers have 2nd Edition style shuriken catapults and dont suck. 3D printer go BRRRR

 Hellebore wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
So what, Corsairs and Guardian equivalents will be troops?

This doesn't sound believable.

I never liked avengers as troops. Just because theyre the most popular aspect doesn't mean there are that many. All aspects are the elite fighting force while the guardians form the core.

Only places like Biel tann can mass a full army of aspects as standard.

And with all the different force orgs you can use that's not going to be a big deal

Originally, Aspect Warriors were the only fighting force. Guardians were a citizen militia raised in times of dire need and a desperation play. Only Ulthwe had a permanent force of them that actually trained to fight while also pursuing whatever civilian Path they were on.
Then Gav Thorpe decided he wanted guardians to be the basic troop type but also gave them the shortest ranged main battle rifle equivalent in the game at the time…

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
So what, Corsairs and Guardian equivalents will be troops?

This doesn't sound believable.

I never liked avengers as troops. Just because theyre the most popular aspect doesn't mean there are that many. All aspects are the elite fighting force while the guardians form the core.

Only places like Biel tann can mass a full army of aspects as standard.

And with all the different force orgs you can use that's not going to be a big deal

Originally, Aspect Warriors were the only fighting force. Guardians were a citizen militia raised in times of dire need and a desperation play. Only Ulthwe had a permanent force of them that actually trained to fight while also pursuing whatever civilian Path they were on.
Then Gav Thorpe decided he wanted guardians to be the basic troop type but also gave them the shortest ranged main battle rifle equivalent in the game at the time…

Whilst all that is true, imagine the modern day population of a country, imagine all it's people all randomly selecting a job to follow based on their feelings. Between all the possible jobs and career paths, industries etc. I'd be shocked if more than a small percentage of a country ended up in the military. Then split that small percentage down by all the different roles within the military, how many core fighting pesons are left? It can't be enough to successfully be the mainstay of a force that threatened your very existence.

Dudeface wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
So what, Corsairs and Guardian equivalents will be troops?

This doesn't sound believable.

I never liked avengers as troops. Just because theyre the most popular aspect doesn't mean there are that many. All aspects are the elite fighting force while the guardians form the core.

Only places like Biel tann can mass a full army of aspects as standard.

And with all the different force orgs you can use that's not going to be a big deal

Originally, Aspect Warriors were the only fighting force. Guardians were a citizen militia raised in times of dire need and a desperation play. Only Ulthwe had a permanent force of them that actually trained to fight while also pursuing whatever civilian Path they were on.
Then Gav Thorpe decided he wanted guardians to be the basic troop type but also gave them the shortest ranged main battle rifle equivalent in the game at the time…

Whilst all that is true, imagine the modern day population of a country, imagine all it's people all randomly selecting a job to follow based on their feelings. Between all the possible jobs and career paths, industries etc. I'd be shocked if more than a small percentage of a country ended up in the military. Then split that small percentage down by all the different roles within the military, how many core fighting pesons are left? It can't be enough to successfully be the mainstay of a force that threatened your very existence.

Well, that would be the equivalent to a professional army, with the difference that, according to eldar lore, most eldar jumped from path to path to avoid overly focusing in one single thing. The only "lifers" would be the exarchs, who are stuck in the path, but many aspects would serve for a time and then go on with a civilian calling, so for one the percentage of the craftworld devoted to the military would be bigger and you probably could justify an "ex-aspect" special guardian squad if you so chose.

Well this new organization for the army kinda makes sense.

I mean if Eldar get new guardians and corsairs as basic troops. Forcing people to buy the new kits instead reuse the older Dire avengers (wich shouldn't be updated yet). The odd thing is the rangers change even when they get a new kit.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
So what, Corsairs and Guardian equivalents will be troops?

This doesn't sound believable.

still think most of the rumours are sketchy at best

As for Corsairs, if true I think they'll go about it in the typical GW half-assed fashion of making them like Trueborn and Bloodbrides, ie an upgrade for 1 Guardian squad (along with loss of CW doctrine for some corner case ability, it was good enough for ynnari...)

Dudeface wrote:

Whilst all that is true, imagine the modern day population of a country, imagine all it's people all randomly selecting a job to follow based on their feelings. Between all the possible jobs and career paths, industries etc. I'd be shocked if more than a small percentage of a country ended up in the military. Then split that small percentage down by all the different roles within the military, how many core fighting pesons are left? It can't be enough to successfully be the mainstay of a force that threatened your very existence.

That might be true for humans, but eldar are essentially a bioweapon. The warrior paths are among the most popular paths, and more and more eldar are walking the warrior path.

4th ed codex wrote:
The Path of the Warrior teaches the arts of death and destruction. Due to the dark side of the Eldar psyche, it calls to almost all Eldar at some point in their long lives.

Also, how many active combatants would a craftworld actually need, given their fighting style? Craftworlds specialise in surgical strikes, and should need only relatively small numbers of warriors for that. Fielding guardians and wraith constructs makes sense when all plans go to hell, and the craftworld ends up in an (unfavourable) all-out war.

 Lord Perversor wrote:
Well this new organization for the army kinda makes sense.

I mean if Eldar get new guardians and corsairs as basic trooos. Forcing people to buy the new kits instead reuse the older Dire avengers (wich shouldn't be updated yet). The odd thing is the rangers change even when they get a new kit.

From a "buy our new stuff", probably. From a setting perspective, maybe not so much.

You should at least be able to build a full aspects army if you so chose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Radium wrote:
Also, how many active combatants would a craftworld actually need, given their fighting style? Craftworlds specialise in surgical strikes, and should need only relatively small numbers of warriors for that. Fielding guardians and wraith constructs makes sense when all plans go to hell, and the craftworld ends up in an (unfavourable) all-out war.

Seeing guardians in the field makes quite a bit more sense for Epic and the like, when you've commited to an actual war.

For the 40k level, not really.

 Albertorius wrote:

You should at least be able to build a full aspects army if you so chose.

Well you can even if these rumours were true. Or was there rumoured cap on max aspects you can field?

Is it possible that the Phoenix Lords will let you take the respective aspect as Troops instead?

tneva82 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

You should at least be able to build a full aspects army if you so chose.

Well you can even if these rumours were true. Or was there rumoured cap on max aspects you can field?

If no aspects are troops, is kinda hard to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Is it possible that the Phoenix Lords will let you take the respective aspect as Troops instead?

I am... not fond [/understatement] of having to field a special character to do that kind of stuff.

Radium wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Whilst all that is true, imagine the modern day population of a country, imagine all it's people all randomly selecting a job to follow based on their feelings. Between all the possible jobs and career paths, industries etc. I'd be shocked if more than a small percentage of a country ended up in the military. Then split that small percentage down by all the different roles within the military, how many core fighting pesons are left? It can't be enough to successfully be the mainstay of a force that threatened your very existence.

That might be true for humans, but eldar are essentially a bioweapon. The warrior paths are among the most popular paths, and more and more eldar are walking the warrior path.

4th ed codex wrote:
The Path of the Warrior teaches the arts of death and destruction. Due to the dark side of the Eldar psyche, it calls to almost all Eldar at some point in their long lives.

Also, how many active combatants would a craftworld actually need, given their fighting style? Craftworlds specialise in surgical strikes, and should need only relatively small numbers of warriors for that. Fielding guardians and wraith constructs makes sense when all plans go to hell, and the craftworld ends up in an (unfavourable) all-out war.

"Calls to almost all Eldar at some point in their long lives" again that's not a majority as active aspect warriors, it's that most of them experience it at some point, as they then leave the path when the time comes. But if you want to take on a few guard regimeants you'll need more than a couple hundred eldar. The fluff here about a surgical strike being accomplished by small eldar strike forces is the exact same people wave off as bolter porn about a few marine units toppling armies.

The other knock on is if you claim guardians are only needed in dire circumstances, you enter the odd scenario where they become the elites due to relative scarcity.

Dudeface wrote:
"Calls to almost all Eldar at some point in their long lives" again that's not a majority as active aspect warriors, it's that most of them experience it at some point, as they then leave the path when the time comes. But if you want to take on a few guard regimeants you'll need more than a couple hundred eldar. The fluff here about a surgical strike being accomplished by small eldar strike forces is the exact same people wave off as bolter porn about a few marine units toppling armies.

The other knock on is if you claim guardians are only needed in dire circumstances, you enter the odd scenario where they become the elites due to relative scarcity.

I mean, in both cases it distills into the same idea, and it's the way usually spec ops work: send in small teams to surgically cut the head and extremities (HQ, supply lines, etc) of the army. That won't actually kill them, but it will make them unable to coordinate or resupply, which usually amounts to the same, and then you can go and defeat them in detail.

If you need a straight up fight, though, it's possible that a craftworld will have enough aspects for that, for a limited amount of battles, but not for a full war. And also, most of the support stuff (vehicles, artillery, supplies, etc.) are actually manned by guardians anyways.

They could also change the Troops via Craftworld traits choice as they did in the 3rd ed Craftworlds expansion. So Iyanden moves wraith guard to troops and Guardians to elites, Siam Hann get bikers as troops, Alaitoc gets Rangers to troops, Biel Tan gets Avengers/Aspects as troops, Ulthwe get Warlocks as troops etc.. Obviously some sort of payoff in terms of losing something to gain something but doable..