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2022/01/27 12:27:21
Subject: Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
Still, in most of the world it might be construed as "a dick move". I mean they aren't selling scan of leaked codex, actual GW minis without the license to do so, and so on.
I mean, YMMV but for me anyone who wants to sell or distribute minis, even explicitly to serve as proxies in a game they do not own. Is firmly "white" as you said so. And courts be damned
...I guess making profit from miniatures you clearly say are inspired from a specific range of a game you also are making profit by producing battle reports on your website while not talking with the game's maker first if he's fine with that isn't a "dick move" for you. Or maybe it's fine because it's GW...
Don't worry I would've said the same for any other company of monstrous size. You will find no hypocrisy in me !
Sarouan wrote: So maybe asking for information is a "dick move" now ? What a world we live in nowadays.
"Just asking" the teacher a question isn't a "dick move". "Asking" the teacher to check everyone's homework when he had forgotten to do it is a "dick move". See what I mean ?
-"For the Ruinous Powers!"
2022/01/27 12:30:29
Subject: Re:Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
I am a fool for crowdfunders and have learnt nothing from the Gamezone Heroquest the minis appeal to me enough (and are different enough in aspect to anything I can get elsewhere) to mean I am prepared to take a risk - although admittedly I will not be pledging a massive amount.
I suppose the worst thing here would be if there was a protracted legal confrontation and the money pledged ended up being held in limbo? If GW launched a major challenge and MWG just folded and cancelled the project, I assume in that instance the KS would be 'cancelled' and any money pledged would have to be returned?
I have lost money on KS's that have failed to deliver, because the project ran into difficulties, money mismanagement etc. but never one that was stopped due to legal wrangles, so I have no idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 12:32:26
"Asking" the teacher to check everyone's homework when he had forgotten to do it is a "dick move". See what I mean ?
But I didn't ask that, that's the difference.
Want the specific answer from GW ? Here it is :
Spoiler:
Hi,
Thanks for the Email. We are not working together with Miniwargaming on this project. In terms of joining the campaign, we can't tell you what to do with your money, that is entirely up to you! Any further questions about this campaign would be best placed going directly to the founders of it. Please however do let us know anytime if there is anything else we can do for you!
(just redacted the names, 'cause it brings nothing anyway)
Pretty clear it doesn't imply any witchhunt, here.
Pacific wrote: I am a fool for crowdfunders and have learnt nothing from the Gamezone Heroquest the minis appeal to me enough (and are different enough in aspect to anything I can get elsewhere) to mean I am prepared to take a risk - although admittedly I will not be pledging a massive amount.
Personnally, I don't like to pledge in crowdfundings that sell physical miniatures, especially outside of EU. Because I know I will be completely gakked with shipping / VAT once it's finally sent.
Even so, in the current global situation, it feels riskier than usual because you simply don't know what gak can happen again for delays or whatever afterwards. Especially if China is involved.
I suppose you will be able to add more miniatures to your order in the pledge manager, but since it's not the same site than Kickstarter...dunno if rules are different on that front.
Here, I would thus pledge low for the campaign and wait the pledge manager if I can add more once shipping taxes appear, IMHO.
I suppose the worst thing here would be if there was a protracted legal confrontation and the money pledged ended up being held in limbo? If GW launched a major challenge and MWG just folded and cancelled the project, I assume in that instance the KS would be 'cancelled' and any money pledged would have to be returned?
If it happens during the campaign, there's no risk for the backers : I guess it will be on hold until it's resolved, and since you're billed only when the campaign ends, you should be safe.
If it happens AFTER the campaign, now that's when things get ugly for the backers...
So to me, it's actually best for the backers (and the project's creator, in more than one way...) if GW acts swiftly rather than lately if they really want to do that.That doesn't mean I'm asking them to do so, though.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/01/27 12:53:27
2022/01/27 12:54:22
Subject: Re:Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
"Asking" the teacher to check everyone's homework when he had forgotten to do it is a "dick move". See what I mean ?
But I didn't ask that, that's the difference.
Want the specific answer from GW ? Here it is :
Hi,
Thanks for the Email. We are not working together with Miniwargaming on this project. In terms of joining the campaign, we can't tell you what to do with your money, that is entirely up to you! Any further questions about this campaign would be best placed going directly to the founders of it. Please however do let us know anytime if there is anything else we can do for you!
(just redacted the names, 'cause it brings nothing anyway)
Pretty clear it doesn't imply any witchhunt, here.
Pacific wrote: I am a fool for crowdfunders and have learnt nothing from the Gamezone Heroquest the minis appeal to me enough (and are different enough in aspect to anything I can get elsewhere) to mean I am prepared to take a risk - although admittedly I will not be pledging a massive amount.
Personnally, I don't pledge in crowdfundings that sell physical miniatures, especially outside of EU. Because I know I will be completely gakked with shipping / VAT once it's finally sent.
Even so, in the current global situation, it feels riskier than usual because you simply don't know what gak can happen again for delays or whatever afterwards. Especially if China is involved.
I suppose you will be able to add more miniatures to your order in the pledge manager, but since it's not the same site than Kickstarter...dunno if rules are different on that front.
Here, I would thus pledge low for the campaign and wait the pledge manager if I can add more once shipping taxes appear, IMHO.
I suppose the worst thing here would be if there was a protracted legal confrontation and the money pledged ended up being held in limbo? If GW launched a major challenge and MWG just folded and cancelled the project, I assume in that instance the KS would be 'cancelled' and any money pledged would have to be returned?
If it happens during the campaign, there's no risk for the backers : I guess it will be on hold until it's resolved, and since you're billed only when the project ends, you should be safe.
If it happens AFTER the campaign, now that's when things get ugly for the backers...
No problemo ! I didn't mean to accuse you of anything ! To close the subject: It's just that going to GW wasn't exactly the first thing that would've came to my mind in this situation.
For one, I agree about the prohibitive shipping fees ! But I guess that in return, I get to pay/wait a lot less when I order Infinity or Forgeworld stuff.
-"For the Ruinous Powers!"
2022/01/27 13:05:07
Subject: Re:Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
No problemo ! I didn't mean to accuse you of anything ! To close the subject: It's just that going to GW wasn't exactly the first thing that would've came to my mind in this situation.
No worry ! Just wanted to be clear.
And I did ask MWG first but since I got no answer so far...well. Then I understand they're very busy lately and certainly don't have a customer service the size of GW's own...but time is an issue in this campaign. Not like I have a month to decide myself.
For one, I agree about the prohibitive shipping fees ! But I guess that in return, I get to pay/wait a lot less when I order Infinity or Forgeworld stuff.
So very true. I sure pay premium prices for FW stuff, but I pay nothing for shipping and VAT - and it's sent in 4 days to my door.
Nowadays, I'm very cautious about projects that look cheaper on first sight but don't show the rest of the fees for transport...got fooled a few times before, had to learn from it !
2022/01/27 18:40:58
Subject: Re:Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
Living in the UK, you now have customs charges on almost everything arriving, so buying from the US, EU, Japan, wherever, doesn't really make much of a difference to me.
I had a small business before selling retro video games (really just selling my collection) but I've had to stop selling to the EU. Just too much gak with stuff getting delayed or lost, and then there is such a charge for customs that there is no way anyone in the EU would want to buy anyway, unless the item I was selling was literally the only one available and the person had to have it.
No problemo ! I didn't mean to accuse you of anything ! To close the subject: It's just that going to GW wasn't exactly the first thing that would've came to my mind in this situation.
No worry ! Just wanted to be clear.
And I did ask MWG first but since I got no answer so far...well. Then I understand they're very busy lately and certainly don't have a customer service the size of GW's own...but time is an issue in this campaign. Not like I have a month to decide myself.
For one, I agree about the prohibitive shipping fees ! But I guess that in return, I get to pay/wait a lot less when I order Infinity or Forgeworld stuff.
So very true. I sure pay premium prices for FW stuff, but I pay nothing for shipping and VAT - and it's sent in 4 days to my door.
Nowadays, I'm very cautious about projects that look cheaper on first sight but don't show the rest of the fees for transport...got fooled a few times before, had to learn from it !
Come on. I cannot believe you just gaslighted people like this. You did not, under any circumstances, believe this project was backed by GW. There was nothing to check on. How many times in the history of ever has GW endorsed someone making proxies for their games? At least own that you reported them with an intent to bring it to GWs attention. Thats marginally better than doing it, and then straight up gaslighting people who ask you about it.
2022/01/30 17:45:29
Subject: Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
Caladancid, Saroyan has been quite clear about his motives, it seems unnecessarily hostile to try to call them out just because you may have some lingering doubts. It's probably best to keep it to yourself instead of staying down a line that can only derail the thread.
2022/01/30 18:15:48
Subject: Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
The Black Adder wrote: Caladancid, Saroyan has been quite clear about his motives, it seems unnecessarily hostile to try to call them out just because you may have some lingering doubts. It's probably best to keep it to yourself instead of staying down a line that can only derail the thread.
Indeed. What is done is done and a little good faith can go a long way !
But don't listen to me too much. I might be a bit too hopeful for my own good
Anyway, thank you Pacific for picking up my slack !
-"For the Ruinous Powers!"
2022/01/30 19:11:53
Subject: Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
My one problem with this campaign is that while I like the minis and I dig that they've included a number of female marines, those bases are too busy for my taste and they come molded on.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
Anyway, thank you Pacific for picking up my slack !
NP! I was checking out the updates anyway so not too much trouble to post across.
Manfred von Drakken wrote:My one problem with this campaign is that while I like the minis and I dig that they've included a number of female marines, those bases are too busy for my taste and they come molded on.
I'm not very keen on the bases either (although that's just because I want more boring bases rather than me thinking they look bad!) but in most cases it just looks like a bit of blade or clipper work to remove them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/30 20:12:43
I'm not very keen on the bases either (although that's just because I want more boring bases rather than me thinking they look bad!) but in most cases it just looks like a bit of blade or clipper work to remove them.
It really depends how they are printed : in one piece or multipart then assembled together.
Since they keep talking about "pre-assembled" in the comments, I'd say they're multipart and there is a work at the production stage (in China) to glue the parts together. In that case, it should be possible that's it's not a chore risking to break some pieces of the miniature.
But there's no guarantee and it will still be something that'll take time. If you really don't like the bases, better think twice. Especially if you take a big number of these miniatures...chances are that anyone pledging will do, since well...the more you take, the more interesting it is.
There are a lot of people new to crowdfundings in this one, not knowing how this works. Hope everything will go well for them...and they don't get bad surprises when shipping fees gets in in the pledge manager.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/31 21:04:10
2022/02/01 09:30:26
Subject: Miniwargaming/Lazy squire games to launch a not chaos space marine mini campain.
In practice, they look to me like they have been designed to look good in huge renders, and to be painted with simpler methods like Contrast which will bring out all that detail.
They look like they'd be quite painful to paint using more traditional methods, and more importantly, with all of those incredibly busy surfaces cleaning the inevitablemould lines will be a killer.
Still, good luck to them and hopefully they do well and are able to deliver smoothly.
the minis appeal to me enough (and are different enough in aspect to anything I can get elsewhere) to mean I am prepared to take a risk - although admittedly I will not be pledging a massive amount.
I was checking out the updates anyway so not too much trouble to post across.