Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So long as everyone is comfortable, respected, and having fun, that’s what matters.

This. I regret that I have but one Exalt to give.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The same way we stop people hitting people when their dice say 1 instead of 20. We don't tolerate it. We make a collective decision as adults to consciously prohibit and prevent this sort of behavior in games.

We don't spend money on companies that promote sexual violence.

We don't allow players at tables that promote it.

We don't run stories/adventures that promote it.

We simply stop promoting it's inclusion in games.

How do we stop sexual violence being portrayed in a kids game? We simply stop.

How we allow it is whataboutisms and "Well this seems really complicated, I'm just not going to honestly engage" style arguments.

What makes you NOT have the same attitude towards regular violence? You know, chopping limbs off with an axe or burning people alive with fireballs? Is "promotion" of such behaviour in stories / adventures / games fine?

Can you pinpoint the root cause of such double standards in your reasoning?

Different cultural norms around sexual violence and non sexual violence, clearly?

 Da Boss wrote:
Different cultural norms around sexual violence and non sexual violence, clearly?

It's been interesting to me to look at the average westerner - let's even narrow it down and say "American" - and see how they react to being exposed to sexuality vs. violence.

Hmmm.

Hello, This is an interesting topic. I dont entirely agree with the OP. I think that all themes CAN have a place in a story.

Let me first give a little background on myself. Please note, I do not consider myself a sexual deviant who has dark fantasies about rape or murder or what not. I am a 45 year old american male. I am married, and have been for 23 years. I have 2 college age children, a daughter (21) and a son (19). I have lived overseas, In both Indonesia and Venezuela. And have played RPGS since I was about 10 years old. I have been in a regular RPG group that meets every week for the last 7 years. Though we did switch to on-line for a while during the heart of Covid.


To the topic. I know people have strong opinions when it comes to sexual assault. More so that actual assualt or even murder. But all of these things are bad things... but most dont have a propblem with simulated violence or killing. As an american, its ingrained that violence is acceptable, but nudity on tv in forbidden. As an aside, In indonesia they would censor out kissing on public tv, but killing and even profanity was perfectly fine.

I view rpgs like a movie or book. I am telling a story. That story may have dark themes. These arent things that are being romanticized but are there to emphasize the horrors or are things to be overcome... to further the story. Look at movies and shows that would be considered part of fantasy culture. Game or Thrones was mentioned. The Witcher is another. Highlander has a rape scene. Now... the key here, is its not actually shown. Its implied. The audience knows it happens, and later the villain repeats it to the hero. But its not shown. Does it make the story something that celebrates rape? I dont think it does, but maybe to some?

My point is, is your story something for all audiences or is there a rating to it that should exclude some from viewing/participating? I have run games with my kids and certainly wouldnt include something like that. But I have also run games for adults and stuff like that sometimes fits with the story. I have also run stories for my friend's wives and they were all interested more in picking up random people at the pub than following the overall story.

I think love/sex etc is fine in rpgs. No, i dont feel the need to act out the scene with my guy friends, But I have had players fall in love, get married, get betrayed, have kids, etc... just like you would find in stories, And role-playing is just telling a story. In our starwars game, one of the players was confronted by an older Female officer. He choose to seduce her... Now he has to live with the ridicule of being teased as a Grandma chaser... but it made a fun episode in the story.

But also playing alignments should be important. If your demon possessed player is raping and killing... that is an evil act. Even if he (she) is doing it unintentionally, the party, if it is predominately good, should stop her. Otherwise you are accessories... and just as bad.

If you find the types of stories being told not to your liking, then absolutely you dont belong. just like if you dont like movies about rape or sex then you should not watch those. I think if you are joining an existing group, YOU should ask the Story Teller and players, what kind of stories do you guys tell? if the answer is stuff you dont like or feel comfortable with, then its up to you to continue or not. In this case because it is explicit and not implied they probably should have warned you. But I dont think the content is necessarily wrong or bad. Its just not for you... and from the sounds of most of the comments, not for a lot of you. Would I have a problem with the character or player? Probably not... but I normally play good guys, so would definitely in the spirit of the story try to stop it... either trying to end the curse or by ending the character. Both sound like interesting stories.

 Octopoid wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Different cultural norms around sexual violence and non sexual violence, clearly?

It's been interesting to me to look at the average westerner - let's even narrow it down and say "American" - and see how they react to being exposed to sexuality vs. violence.

Hmmm.

That's an ignorant statement. Different cultural norms exist around sex and violence in every culture. If you think the American viewpoint is somehow uniquely stupid than you are probably unaware of...I don't know...pretty much every single culture in the world outside of the arrogant ones that somehow think they're superior because T&A doesn't "bother" them.

trexmeyer wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Different cultural norms around sexual violence and non sexual violence, clearly?

It's been interesting to me to look at the average westerner - let's even narrow it down and say "American" - and see how they react to being exposed to sexuality vs. violence.

Hmmm.

That's an ignorant statement. Different cultural norms exist around sex and violence in every culture. If you think the American viewpoint is somehow uniquely stupid than you are probably unaware of...I don't know...pretty much every single culture in the world outside of the arrogant ones that somehow think they're superior because T&A doesn't "bother" them.

I don’t think they’re saying America is UNIQUELY stupid. Just stupid in general. Because… yeah, the US view on violence as compared to sex is pretty dumb.

I will say "American" views on sexuality are deeply antiquated, and rooted in misogynistic and perverted ideas of purity and social structures brought on by the church (See: Group of hysterical virgins). But that doesn't mean non-consensual sexual deviancy is some how a freedom that should be allowed or "accurately portrayed". DnD is not, I repeat, NOT an accurate representation of normal life. Nothing in Fantasy Role playing needs mimic real life. The overwhelming majority of people roleplay fantasy to act out a feeling or idea that they wish they were capable of, ie Super Strong Barbarian, or sexy Elven Archer with cool Wolf as a friend, or Kung-fu master that can heal people by touching them. It's escapism. Not realism. No one expects to pay taxes or have to take bathroom breaks while in a dungeon, because the day-to-day reality of life is not fun, versus creating an idea, and running it out with a group of other friends.

Also, please stop equating American Sexual Morality to how rape should or should not be allowed in DnD. They are two vastly different problems.

 JNAProductions wrote:

trexmeyer wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Different cultural norms around sexual violence and non sexual violence, clearly?

It's been interesting to me to look at the average westerner - let's even narrow it down and say "American" - and see how they react to being exposed to sexuality vs. violence.

Hmmm.

That's an ignorant statement. Different cultural norms exist around sex and violence in every culture. If you think the American viewpoint is somehow uniquely stupid than you are probably unaware of...I don't know...pretty much every single culture in the world outside of the arrogant ones that somehow think they're superior because T&A doesn't "bother" them.

I don’t think they’re saying America is UNIQUELY stupid. Just stupid in general. Because… yeah, the US view on violence as compared to sex is pretty dumb.

How is it dumb? Why are they even being compared other than the fact sex, drug use, language, and violence are loosely grouped together in ratings systems?

What is even being compared? Violence and sexual content are such a wide spectrum that even saying "violence compared to sex" is pointless because that could encompass anything from a topless woman to 4K HD DP+ on one hand versus some hands being thrown to real life combat footage of soldiers being blown literally to pieces.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
DnD is not, I repeat, NOT an accurate representation of normal life. Nothing in Fantasy Role playing needs mimic real life.

...

Sigh.

I'll just throw out the shrine to Bahamut then. Shame. It's real electrum!

Cyel wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The same way we stop people hitting people when their dice say 1 instead of 20. We don't tolerate it. We make a collective decision as adults to consciously prohibit and prevent this sort of behavior in games.

We don't spend money on companies that promote sexual violence.

We don't allow players at tables that promote it.

We don't run stories/adventures that promote it.

We simply stop promoting it's inclusion in games.

How do we stop sexual violence being portrayed in a kids game? We simply stop.

How we allow it is whataboutisms and "Well this seems really complicated, I'm just not going to honestly engage" style arguments.

What makes you NOT have the same attitude towards regular violence? You know, chopping limbs off with an axe or burning people alive with fireballs? Is "promotion" of such behaviour in stories / adventures / games fine?

Can you pinpoint the root cause of such double standards in your reasoning?

No one at the table has had limbs chopped off or burned alive from a fireball? The statistics for people who have suffered from sexual violence are _very_ high. And sitting across the table from someone who has isn't always obvious.

So its less of a double standard as an actual real-world problem that shouldn't be normalized and has lots of 'hidden' victims in every day plain sight. Axe murderers and fireball-tossers are much, much more rare and nonexistent, respectively.

----

tl;dr; it isn't the same, and stop acting as a proponent for normalizing rape by complaining about 'double standards' that don't exist.

Voss wrote:

Cyel wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The same way we stop people hitting people when their dice say 1 instead of 20. We don't tolerate it. We make a collective decision as adults to consciously prohibit and prevent this sort of behavior in games.

We don't spend money on companies that promote sexual violence.

We don't allow players at tables that promote it.

We don't run stories/adventures that promote it.

We simply stop promoting it's inclusion in games.

How do we stop sexual violence being portrayed in a kids game? We simply stop.

How we allow it is whataboutisms and "Well this seems really complicated, I'm just not going to honestly engage" style arguments.

What makes you NOT have the same attitude towards regular violence? You know, chopping limbs off with an axe or burning people alive with fireballs? Is "promotion" of such behaviour in stories / adventures / games fine?

Can you pinpoint the root cause of such double standards in your reasoning?

No one at the table has had limbs chopped off or burned alive from a fireball? The statistics for people who have suffered from sexual violence are _very_ high. And sitting across the table from someone who has isn't always obvious.

So its less of a double standard as an actual real-world problem that shouldn't be normalized and has lots of 'hidden' victims in every day plain sight. Axe murderers and fireball-tossers are much, much more rare and nonexistent, respectively.

----

tl;dr; it isn't the same, and stop acting as a proponent for normalizing rape by complaining about 'double standards' that don't exist.

I actually don’t disagree with you… well not fully. Sure axe murdered and fireballs may not have happened to someone you know. But murders in general are more common (or at least more commonly reported), as is assault, being robbed, etc. As well as people having suffered from drug abuse or been effected by someone who has. No one is saying rape is good. But if you are drawing a line as to which bad thing can be portrayed and which can’t… it seems off. In most games you play the “hero”x whatever that means to you and your group. Killing is part of the game, murder is not. Just like you don’t expect the heroes to go around raping innocents you wouldn’t expect them to murder them either.

But if the big bad raped your friend Tony, the blacksmith… that emphasizes that he is a bad guy as much as him murdering 20 nuns does…

As I stated, Highlander had a rape scene. Should the movie be banned because rape is bad? I am not saying let’s make rape an acceptable thing to just do in games. What I am saying is it is part of our world and should be allowed to be included in stories. But you should have conversations between all parties before introducing things like that in the story.

The sheer "whataboutism" is alarming in this thread. I thought the internet had some weird stuff on it, but we've actually discovered rape apologists.

"We can't ban rape, what about all the violent actions in killing Goblins" is a dumb as nuts argument. I'm sorry. But even on a long walk of excuses, and irrelevant searching of the monster manual for particular creatures, it doesn't change that fact that including rape as a callable action is a completely undefendable position, and I judge everyone who tries to make that argument. You cannot justify with any shred of decency allowing a player at the table to commit rape. I don't care how much of the Cure you listen to, or how much of an edgelord you are on Reddit.

Your point of view is if something is bad, and you don’t like it, then it has no place in an rpg. But other things that are bad and you are ok with are fine.

No one in this thread has condoned rape. Which you seem to be confusing. What has been said is it is bad, but just like other bad things, it’s ok to talk about them. If we just ban talking about things because someone doesn’t like it, will thst make it all better?

In your own example you did not like something that others at your table were ok with. So your soliciting wasn’t, ok this isn’t the place for me… your solution was “let me try and cancel this”.

That seems to be a common approach now. Instead of actually responding to any thing others of differing views said… you chose to call them edgelords who condone rape… blah blah…

Anyway. I think this conversation is probably pointless. I will ask, and have no doubt you will not answer and call me another name, but… since you find one heinous act acceptable but another not in the stories you partake in… which do you think your family would find worse happen to you? Both are horrible horrible things… but if you were murdered, you are gone forever. Not just that but those that depend on you suffer as well. Forever… it’s s permanent thing. But it is ok to have that in a game because some how wish fulfillment?

I'd also like to say, I'm not talking about sexual violence when it comes to American culture being weird.

I'm talking just sex in general. Murder can be shown plenty in PG-13 movies, but female nipples can't be.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I'd also like to say, I'm not talking about sexual violence when it comes to American culture being weird.

I'm talking just sex in general. Murder can be shown plenty in PG-13 movies, but female nipples can't be.

That might be a conversation for another day. I'm plenty happy to raise my brow and be 'wtf is this' about America's weird hang-ups where sex is concerned, but generally speaking American attitudes about something like 'I've been possessed by a demon must now roleplay my character murder raping an old woman and everyone in sight' aren't that out of step with the rest of the world.

 Octopoid wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Different cultural norms around sexual violence and non sexual violence, clearly?

It's been interesting to me to look at the average westerner - let's even narrow it down and say "American" - and see how they react to being exposed to sexuality vs. violence.

Hmmm.

It's more what is most likely to be a trauma someone at the table has actually experienced. It's very unlikely people playing the game have witnessed someone being decapitated or staked through the heart or killed with an axe irl. You know what % of people have suffered some form of sexual abuse?

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem

Every 68 seconds another American is sexually assaulted.1
1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted).4
About 3% of American men—or 1 in 33—have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.4
From 2009-2013, Child Protective Services agencies substantiated, or found strong evidence to indicate that, 63,000 children a year were victims of sexual abuse.5
A majority of child victims are 12-17. Of victims under the age of 18: 34% of victims of sexual assault and rape are under age 12, and 66% of victims of sexual assault and rape are age 12-17.6

Sexual abuse is just flat out likely to be something someone at the table has either experienced themselves or someone close to them has. fething nobody is suffering from watching someone get murdered with an axe.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I'd also like to say, I'm not talking about sexual violence when it comes to American culture being weird.

I'm talking just sex in general. Murder can be shown plenty in PG-13 movies, but female nipples can't be.

What do female nipples contribute to a story?

 Smokestack wrote:

Voss wrote:

Cyel wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The same way we stop people hitting people when their dice say 1 instead of 20. We don't tolerate it. We make a collective decision as adults to consciously prohibit and prevent this sort of behavior in games.

We don't spend money on companies that promote sexual violence.

We don't allow players at tables that promote it.

We don't run stories/adventures that promote it.

We simply stop promoting it's inclusion in games.

How do we stop sexual violence being portrayed in a kids game? We simply stop.

How we allow it is whataboutisms and "Well this seems really complicated, I'm just not going to honestly engage" style arguments.

What makes you NOT have the same attitude towards regular violence? You know, chopping limbs off with an axe or burning people alive with fireballs? Is "promotion" of such behaviour in stories / adventures / games fine?

Can you pinpoint the root cause of such double standards in your reasoning?

No one at the table has had limbs chopped off or burned alive from a fireball? The statistics for people who have suffered from sexual violence are _very_ high. And sitting across the table from someone who has isn't always obvious.

So its less of a double standard as an actual real-world problem that shouldn't be normalized and has lots of 'hidden' victims in every day plain sight. Axe murderers and fireball-tossers are much, much more rare and nonexistent, respectively.

----

tl;dr; it isn't the same, and stop acting as a proponent for normalizing rape by complaining about 'double standards' that don't exist.

I actually don’t disagree with you… well not fully. Sure axe murdered and fireballs may not have happened to someone you know. But murders in general are more common (or at least more commonly reported), as is assault, being robbed, etc. As well as people having suffered from drug abuse or been effected by someone who has. No one is saying rape is good. But if you are drawing a line as to which bad thing can be portrayed and which can’t… it seems off. In most games you play the “hero”x whatever that means to you and your group. Killing is part of the game, murder is not. Just like you don’t expect the heroes to go around raping innocents you wouldn’t expect them to murder them either.

Ok... so no one is saying rape is good (which is absolutely the bare minimum as its a wildly undefensible position to take). But I'm confused as to why murder isn't expected, but not having rape involves drawing a line that 'seems off'

But if the big bad raped your friend Tony, the blacksmith… that emphasizes that he is a bad guy as much as him murdering 20 nuns does…

As an unrelated aside, I'd rather not have one dimensional one note bad guys, that don't need to be justified in either fashion.

As I stated, Highlander had a rape scene. Should the movie be banned because rape is bad? I am not saying let’s make rape an acceptable thing to just do in games. What I am saying is it is part of our world and should be allowed to be included in stories.

I don't see the connection. (not) sorry, I just don't. Highlander has the obvious evil villain do off screen bad things as part of a passive entertainment with an R rating. (in other words, the audience is warned, doesn't see it, and its very obviously part of 'why this guy absolutely deserves to get his head chopped off with no moral issues for the protagonist.') Its also a very 80s 'macho BS' movie with all sorts of the typical sins that are much less socially acceptable today (like McCloud and the crappy cop's pissing match that is mostly just homophobic insults), so holding it up as some sort of lasting standard is weird.

But its still quite different to ~4-6 people sitting around a table involved in participating in weird fetishy fake rapes just for the... shock? satisfaction? what? of being a creepy jackhole around other people. It isn't a matter of 'not allowing it in stories.' Its not waving your inner monster around at other people in a setting where they no reason to expect it.

On the subject of allowing it in stories- there are ways to handle it that's cathartic, meaningful ways of dealing with the trauma that's good for the author and/or victims. And qualified psychologists might just do that in a well-supervised RP session. But that clearly isn't what anyone's discussing. And there are obvious differences between books and films aimed at helping deal with trauma and the creepy fetishy crap. And any random D&D related session that happens to include itis going to lean hard toward the latter, and that's really not OK.

But you should have conversations between all parties before introducing things like that in the story.

That is, again, a bare-minimum given. But there is all this weird twisty language about trying to justify... something vague... about having it but not having it but having it. That is what's getting to me, because its part of the normalizing aspect again. 'These things just happen' is a conversation I've had with a teenage girl in college, and I really don't ever want to have it again. Or seeing people handwave it away like its nothing, which is the usual response when it comes to trials, investigations and just random office talk.
If it gets brought up in a D&D game, I don't see any reason at all not to break out the 'what the is wrong with you people.'

Voss, you make some very good points. I will say the only thing throwing me off here is Fezzick’s stance on the line.

The fact that the player is possessed by a demon and suddenly murders innocents. This is perfectly acceptable and a good time at the table. But when the character has her peepee out suddenly it went from a fun game to “wtf is wrong with you”

Personally, the murdering innocents part is just as bad. But OP is only concerned with the second part. “Stabbing a goblin isn’t a big deal” sure, but if you see the goblin naked first (ok, yes wierd) then it’s now unforgivable. OP also states that love, sex etc and other real world things “have no place in D&D”. I am thinking that his way of playing D&D is just as a murder simulator. Is that “healthy”?

Op also admits that he has no idea what was said during this scene as he coveted his ears and closed his eyes, but just assumed it was 15 minutes of pure rape description. In reality it was probably just them discussing how to get murder simulator guy out of their group.

I will stop arguing though. To sum up. I think rape is bad. I think murder is bad. I think drug abuse is bad. They all happen. Stories should be told about it. Not in a positive way, but not all stories are positive. If you only play D&D so you can “live out your murder fantasies “ then that’s on you. (Not aimed at you Voss)

I think one thing that rape and/or sexual abuse is something that people can encounter in real life


The second thing is that DnD is well advertised and known to be a combat game at its core (you don't have to play that way but its there). It's not known as a sexual game and, as several have noted, its even got a "childish" connection/side to it in that most don't assume sexual events to take place during the game as standard.



So its very possible that people who are triggered by violence don't even turn up to DnD games in the first place. They aren't attracted to it from the outset so it creates a space where violence/battle is accepted. However there's no sexual element on the surface so people who have had bad experiences in life can walk into a DnD game thinking its a safe space for them to engage with. At which point when something like what the OP experienced, comes along its more of a shock to the system.


That's just one additional take on the situation and why people might overlook some things and not others within the context of DnD even though we can all agree that rape, murder, violence and such are all horrible horrible things in reality.

 Smokestack wrote:
Voss, you make some very good points. I will say the only thing throwing me off here is Fezzick’s stance on the line.

The fact that the player is possessed by a demon and suddenly murders innocents. This is perfectly acceptable and a good time at the table. But when the character has her peepee out suddenly it went from a fun game to “wtf is wrong with you”

Personally, the murdering innocents part is just as bad. But OP is only concerned with the second part. “Stabbing a goblin isn’t a big deal” sure, but if you see the goblin naked first (ok, yes wierd) then it’s now unforgivable. OP also states that love, sex etc and other real world things “have no place in D&D”. I am thinking that his way of playing D&D is just as a murder simulator. Is that “healthy”?

Op also admits that he has no idea what was said during this scene as he coveted his ears and closed his eyes, but just assumed it was 15 minutes of pure rape description. In reality it was probably just them discussing how to get murder simulator guy out of their group.

I will stop arguing though. To sum up. I think rape is bad. I think murder is bad. I think drug abuse is bad. They all happen. Stories should be told about it. Not in a positive way, but not all stories are positive. If you only play D&D so you can “live out your murder fantasies “ then that’s on you. (Not aimed at you Voss)

You obviously are arguing from bad faith now. "Has her pee pee come out"? WTF is wrong with you? Seriously, you are in a really awful place emotionally, and should seek help from a therapist if you can't honestly consider the impact of your words, and the feelings of others. Also, the bit about I don't know what happened is also false, I didn't "Hide in a safe place" I made the choice not to engage if that subject matter was going to be part of the game. And then after the game everyone was still talking about it, so it wasn't hard to piece together what occurred. Not to mention the fact that the next quest that was being setup was to find the murderer in the town that did this heinous thing, and we were all basically rolling investigation and insight checks against the player.

Also, please stop acusing me of things you know nothing about. This claim that I am afraid of sex or nudity is completely without merit. I'm a happily married person with a child. You know how that happens? Consent between two rational adult storks.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:
Voss, you make some very good points. I will say the only thing throwing me off here is Fezzick’s stance on the line.

The fact that the player is possessed by a demon and suddenly murders innocents. This is perfectly acceptable and a good time at the table. But when the character has her peepee out suddenly it went from a fun game to “wtf is wrong with you”

Personally, the murdering innocents part is just as bad. But OP is only concerned with the second part. “Stabbing a goblin isn’t a big deal” sure, but if you see the goblin naked first (ok, yes wierd) then it’s now unforgivable. OP also states that love, sex etc and other real world things “have no place in D&D”. I am thinking that his way of playing D&D is just as a murder simulator. Is that “healthy”?

Op also admits that he has no idea what was said during this scene as he coveted his ears and closed his eyes, but just assumed it was 15 minutes of pure rape description. In reality it was probably just them discussing how to get murder simulator guy out of their group.

I will stop arguing though. To sum up. I think rape is bad. I think murder is bad. I think drug abuse is bad. They all happen. Stories should be told about it. Not in a positive way, but not all stories are positive. If you only play D&D so you can “live out your murder fantasies “ then that’s on you. (Not aimed at you Voss)

You obviously are arguing from bad faith now. "Has her pee pee come out"? WTF is wrong with you? Seriously, you are in a really awful place emotionally, and should seek help from a therapist if you can't honestly consider the impact of your words, and the feelings of others. Also, the bit about I don't know what happened is also false, I didn't "Hide in a safe place" I made the choice not to engage if that subject matter was going to be part of the game. And then after the game everyone was still talking about it, so it wasn't hard to piece together what occurred. Not to mention the fact that the next quest that was being setup was to find the murderer in the town that did this heinous thing, and we were all basically rolling investigation and insight checks against the player.

Also, please stop acusing me of things you know nothing about. This claim that I am afraid of sex or nudity is completely without merit. I'm a happily married person with a child. You know how that happens? Consent between two rational adult storks.

Please stop accusing you of things I know nothing about. However I being called an edge lord who condones rape and listens to the cure, and needs therapy… but I am arguing on bad faith. you don’t ever actually list any valid arguments. You just hurl bs insults. Voss has some good points. So I will concede to his points… but you, murder simulator guy… you just sound awful. Your sole argument of wtf and seek therapy speaks volumes. And if you have such a problem with the group and yet came back, then you are part of the problem.

All OP needs to know is, that is they sit down at the table with that same group it COULD happen again. They have voiced their concerns and the group has chosen to continue on their course.

Therefore, the OP must either continue to "fight the battle" with the group OR they can leave the group. There really is only two choices on this one; fight or flight.




Off-topic: I hope some folks in this thread never, ever try to play Monsterhearts.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Someone suggested it earlier and I think it's a great idea:

A Checklist -

What are your triggers, what subjects affect you negatively/positively?

Rape
Racism
Politics
Slavery
Torture
Murder
Gore
Violence
Sex
etc?

I check yes to everything EXCEPT politics. Racism? Yes. Slavery? Yes, 100% cool with me. Violence? Bring it on.

But anything that is NOT THAT and DOES involve politics is a hard stop trigger and you the GM MUST fade to black.

Talking about the taxation policy in a local village? I'm out. Zoning regulations in dungeon design? Leave a little to the imagination bro. You may only refer to beureaucrats as "The B Word" if they must appear in game.

You: "You arrive in the local village and receive a missive from the local Alderma-"

Me: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So recently my Sunday night DnD group was tasked with entering a town and going through quests until we learned enough to progress the story. One of the quests we did was to help an old Elf lady who's neighbors had become undead. We killed the undead and left the area with gold and directions to a town official that could help us.

We decided to spend the night recovering and re-grouping. During the night one of our party (Who has an insanity gauge that when it hit's a certain level he becomes "Possessed" by a demon thing that forces him to slake his "bloodlust". He's a level 6 elf fighter, and it's cringe of the worst sort, but the DM was ok with the mechanics and let it fly. So flash cut to the character, who is now in a "Blood frenzy", he makes his way to the old woman's house, and proceeds for the next 15 minutes,

Spoiler:

to rape and brutally murder her and everyone in the house

I was specifically asked by the DM before hand if this would be a trigger, and I said yes. I was so taken aback I didn't think to even ask, HOW ARE YOU OK WITH THIS? But excused myself, and came back 15 minutes later, and it was over.

Should this be allowed? I am seriously considering leaving the group, as the member who did it is a close personal friend of the DM and I didn't want to stir up crap, but this is really bad fantasy role play. I mean, I don't play escapist fantasy roleplay to have terrible real world gak thrown in.

Am I being a dink about this and just need to relax? Or is this too edgy and gross for any DnD game? I'm seriously not ok with this sort of content, but don't want to lose my game that I've put time and effort into.

What say you all?

I think you have a dink as a DM.

The premise sounds ridiculous, leaving a big gaping hole in the game group. Now you have just removed all limits in a "Roll Playing" game. It's breaking the first cardinal rule of D and D and turning the game into a living cliché.

You should leave that group, if that is a standard fare with that group. It runs along the well quoted, "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD."

I mean, damn... What's next...

It's allowed, but any DM worth their salt would have steered that situation away from a whole new level of shitshow.

You should leave that group for no other reason then- That's the best they can come up with. If that's the best, you are wasting your time with that group of losers.

 the_scotsman wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Someone suggested it earlier and I think it's a great idea:

A Checklist -

What are your triggers, what subjects affect you negatively/positively?

Rape
Racism
Politics
Slavery
Torture
Murder
Gore
Violence
Sex
etc?

I check yes to everything EXCEPT politics. Racism? Yes. Slavery? Yes, 100% cool with me. Violence? Bring it on.

But anything that is NOT THAT and DOES involve politics is a hard stop trigger and you the GM MUST fade to black.

Talking about the taxation policy in a local village? I'm out. Zoning regulations in dungeon design? Leave a little to the imagination bro. You may only refer to beureaucrats as "The B Word" if they must appear in game.

You: "You arrive in the local village and receive a missive from the local Alderma-"

Me: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

I get your jest, and thank you for pointing out the weakness in my unspecific list.

How about no "real world out of game politics"?

I've actually had members in games try and pick fights with NPC Druids they actually called "Communist/Socialist".

How about leave real world political battles in the real world? I understand your character thinks helping the poor is the mark of a weak society, but he's the quest giver and I didn't plan for you to start a capitalist utopia in this small 30 person Druidic enclave in the woods. Can I just skip to the battle against the snakes and oozes now?

So this is my perspective - I know people play DnD for different reasons, as a tactics game, as a social heavy roleplay, as a power fantasy, etc.

To me it's a constructive way to spend a few hours with my friends, enjoying catching up with them on their latest news, having food, drinks etc. It's a nerdy equivalent of having people over "for the game".

So my group is generally against PCs being absolute gakheads. Torture, rape, that kinda stuff sure we can have the villains be doing it off screen without the sort of gratuitous jacking off about it the OP encountered in their group. But it's stuff the bads do to be more bad, not something the PCs do to try to be edgy.

The bottom line for me is my gaming is about enjoyment.

Can you have a mature story where the protagonist is a horrible person? Sure, after all someone wrote Lolita.

Is that something I want to deal with every Saturday? No

Does that make me somehow 'less mature'? Lol hell no.

Relatedly, Paizo has unilaterally banned all references to (fictional) slavery in Pathfinder going forward with no in-setting explanation.

I haven’t heard that they have taken a similar stance on (fictional) rape.

 Manchu wrote:
Relatedly, Paizo has unilaterally banned all references to (fictional) slavery in Pathfinder going forward with no in-setting explanation.

I haven’t heard that they have taken a similar stance on (fictional) rape.

That is a very male move to make.