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On the Rancor vs Gunship front, maybe the Rancor is the better bet because the Skorpanek droids are ray-shielded, meaning Slave-1's guns will be ineffective, and he doesn't really want to be using torpedoes or proton bombs in the middle of the city. Meanwhile the Rancor can get inside the shields and pull them to pieces. It's not necessarily as stupid as it might first appear.

To be fair, the Rancor wrecked the city just fine XD

pgmason wrote:
On the Rancor vs Gunship front, maybe the Rancor is the better bet because the Skorpanek droids are ray-shielded, meaning Slave-1's guns will be ineffective, and he doesn't really want to be using torpedoes or proton bombs in the middle of the city. Meanwhile the Rancor can get inside the shields and pull them to pieces. It's not necessarily as stupid as it might first appear.

The rancor is flesh and blood and gets gunned down like any other living thing. Although it is big and takes more shots. Meanwhile, Fett himself is VERY vulnerable sitting fully exposed on top of this lumbering lizard gorilla. Here is the thing, Fetts gun ship is tricked out with all kinds of stuff. We know it from canon sources like the complete guides and such. That includes a tractor beam and an ion cannon. You know, that one that disables ships and other electronics by shutting them down completely. He could have literally flown over, ion cannoned them, picked them up with the tractor beam and hurled them into space. It's got rockets (not just proton torpedoes) and guns big enough to take down star ships. So definitely big enough to break those shields if the rancors punch could do it.

The writers deciding to do a chekov's Rancor is the only explanation. There is no in universe reason why Fett did what he did besides being a completely incompetent moron.

On a Rancor-related note, just how far away is Jabba's Palace? Presumably Fett's jetpack lets him get back there fairly quickly but he still needs to get the Rancor ready and then ride it back to the city to fight the droids. Not sure that really meshes with the "these are my people" attitude when they see him fly off into the distance to allow the droids to run rampant for a good 15 minutes (at least) before coming back to...destroy more of the city in a weird mini-Godzilla battle.

Yes, these are minor details that you can gloss over in better movies/series (though I would argue one of the hallmarks of better writing is these problems not arising in the first place). But BoBF isn't good enough to earn that kind of dispensation. Even with the time-compressing magic of editing you're still left thinking the droids are completely non-threatening and Fett sure is taking a long time to return. Even if he doesn't come back in Slave I like he should, surely he's got some kind of anti-droid tech stashed away in his compound somewhere. Something that doesn't involve destroying a city block to get rid of a couple of droids.

Also, how long did the trainer say it was going to take to teach the baby rancor to be ridden? Fett gave him instruction to begin the training like... 4 days ago.

Quick note that probably doesn't change much, but Boba can cut out prep time for the Rancor by radioing ahead for Machete to take care of it.

It's lucky that Boba's rancor can just tank laser shots (the few times the droids even bother to shoot at it), while Jabba's one got creamed by a spikey gate...

pgmason wrote:
On the Rancor vs Gunship front, maybe the Rancor is the better bet because the Skorpanek droids are ray-shielded, meaning Slave-1's guns will be ineffective, and he doesn't really want to be using torpedoes or proton bombs in the middle of the city. Meanwhile the Rancor can get inside the shields and pull them to pieces. It's not necessarily as stupid as it might first appear.

Nope, its more stupid. As we saw in Mando Season 2, Slave 1 has ion weapons (the shuttle pilots explicitly mention it), so the shields wouldn't matter. Its how he disables the Imperial Shuttle when he kidnaps Doc Creepy
And we've seen ion weapons turn off a whole bloody star destroyer, so if his can disable a shuttle, they can handle a couple of second hand droids.

---
As far as the Rancor goes, It also doesn't help that the battle damage from getting shot just fades away on the CGI skin of the rancor. It vanishes both from one fight to the next and also after a few seconds during the first fight. It was poorly done.

So much unnecessary nitpicking. Can you people not just sit down and watch something and enjoy it in the moment without armchair quarterbacking or second guessing characters decisions? "Oh, if I had that jetpack I would fly around blasting everyone from the air, these guys are idiots and this show is terrible honhonhonhon". Learn to suspend your disbelief, assume they ran out of fuel at that point or their backpacks were overheating/needed to recharge (as they had already been flying around a bit), etc.

Anyway, in terms of discussions with actual substance, we don't actually know which item Grogu selected or if Luke was playing it straight with him vs testing him. We assume we know based on circumstance, but for all we know he selected differently and Lukes response was "you passed your final test, but your friends are in danger, you need to return to them, as I did when I was studying with Yoda and my friends were in trouble on Bespin" etc., or Grogu did select what we think he did and Luke was like "yes, I made the same decision when I was young. Go now and do your thing and love your friends and family, one day when you are ready return here to complete your training with me."

 warboss wrote:
I gave up on Clone Wars after that god awful duct-taped "movie" they released of the first couple of episodes. I know it got better but I still hear "Sky Guy" and "Snips" in my nightmares!

Pretty sure that movie predates the entire series, the actual series didn't air until months later IIRC, the movie was essentially a "pilot" in that regard.

Sure. It's just a nitpick that Luke was apparently too busy doing... something (not like he has any other students to be dealing with) to take Grogu back to Mandi, and instead sent him off on his own with R2, who just abandoned him with literally the first person they met.
What a jerk!

And the only reason that the baby had to leave was because Luke - I've got to leave Yoda to save my friends - Luke - I'm going to risk everything to attempt to save my father - Luke - I've recovered my master's lightsaber and held on to it - wants him to choose between being a Jedi and having attachments.
What a Jerk!

Rarely do characters get assassinated so many times within a series of works.

So much unnecessary nitpicking. Can you people not just sit down and watch something and enjoy it in the moment without armchair quarterbacking or second guessing characters decisions?

Nope. Thinking about things is how I enjoy them.

But really, 'in the moment' this series was bad. Upon reflection... the problems really stand out.

If you don't want to discuss things... I suggest not perusing a discussion thread. And 'he objectively and explicitly had this capability, but didn't use it. No reason.' doesn't strike me as a nitpick anyway, nor does 'stop thinking about it' strike me as an uplifting way to consider anything.

Suspension of disbelief already covers enemies blindly abandoning cover, mega shields and sword hilts that are super heavy because you're 'feeling about it' wrong. It doesn't need to do any more lifting than it already does.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Sure. It's just a nitpick that Luke was apparently too busy doing... something (not like he has any other students to be dealing with) to take Grogu back to Mandi, and instead sent him off on his own with R2, who just abandoned him with literally the first person they met.
What a jerk!

And the only reason that the baby had to leave was because Luke - I've got to leave Yoda to save my friends - Luke - I'm going to risk everything to attempt to save my father - Luke - I've recovered my master's lightsaber and held on to it - wants him to choose between being a Jedi and having attachments.
What a Jerk!

Rarely do characters get assassinated so many times within a series of works.

Again - you don't actually know what happened off-camera. The fact that it happened off-camera suggests theres more to the story than your reductivist point of view might otherwise imply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

So much unnecessary nitpicking. Can you people not just sit down and watch something and enjoy it in the moment without armchair quarterbacking or second guessing characters decisions?

Nope. Thinking about things is how I enjoy them.

You sound like you're probably constantly miserable. Hope you're not also the type to say "keep politics out of my entertainment", because then you're miserably doubly so.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Anyway, in terms of discussions with actual substance, we don't actually know which item Grogu selected or if Luke was playing it straight with him vs testing him.

We literally see Grogru wearing the shirt and Mando vocally mentions that he is wearing it.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So much unnecessary nitpicking. Can you people not just sit down and watch something and enjoy it in the moment without armchair quarterbacking or second guessing characters decisions? "Oh, if I had that jetpack I would fly around blasting everyone from the air, these guys are idiots and this show is terrible honhonhonhon". Learn to suspend your disbelief, assume they ran out of fuel at that point or their backpacks were overheating/needed to recharge (as they had already been flying around a bit), etc.

Making gak up yourself to explain why the scene happens the way it does is no better than nit picking the scene in the first place. If you don't want to talk about this stuff, then don't engage. Simple as that.

 Lance845 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Anyway, in terms of discussions with actual substance, we don't actually know which item Grogu selected or if Luke was playing it straight with him vs testing him.

We literally see Grogru wearing the shirt and Mando vocally mentions that he is wearing it.

You've rather missed the point. Just because Grogu is wearing the shirt doesn't mean its actually the item Grogu selected. That is the obvious conclusion, but it would require Luke to have played matters straight. We don't know that Grogu didn't select the lightsaber, and that Luke didn't give him the shirt anyway for other reasons.

The fact of the matter is that they could have shown Grogu making his choice and the resulting interactions/consequences in relation to Luke. Instead they have him mysteriously turn up on Tatooine in Lukes X-Wing being piloted by R2 who is in some sort of a rush to get somewhere else. This is a classic tv/film setup for "things aren't quite what they seem". The fact that we don't have a clear indication of these events in relation to one another in terms of timeline also serves to muddy the waters of perception. For all we know, Grogu turning up on Tatooine occurred weeks/months, etc. after Mando dropped the shirt off/Grogu was asked to make his choice.

We don't know that Grogu didn't pick the lightsaber to continue his training, and then 3 months later something hot came up and Luke was like "Grogu, its too dangerous for you to come with me, I'm sending you to stay with your dad for a bit as he can keep you safe better than I can. I will find you when I am ready to resume your training, here take this beskar shirt in case danger comes for you, your father wanted you to have this, it will help keep you safe."

chaos0xomega wrote:


Again - you don't actually know what happened off-camera. The fact that it happened off-camera suggests theres more to the story than your reductivist point of view might otherwise imply.

respectfully, we can only mark the work we are given, and can only judge what we are shown. whatever "really happened" with Luke off screen is irrelevant to the story of the Book of Boba Fett, because it happened off screen. Regardless of the intent of Luke, his actual, on screen (or directly inferable from what we see on screen) actions were to load grogu into an x-wing, piloted by his droid and send him off to tattoine to find mando, but not call ahead or otherwise make arrangements for his care or reception, and did so wearing the armour shirt.

thats about it. anything else is pure, unsubstantiated rumour.


now, i cannot for the life of me understand a in-universe reason for him to do this. the only reason i can think of is out of universe, which is they wanted grogu back with mando, and have him in the big end fight, but didnt want to introduce Luke or Ashoka to the big end fight (so they can't shortcut things and rob fett of any meaningful victory). so they had to resort to this stupid, bordering on child endangerment plan.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So much unnecessary nitpicking. Can you people not just sit down and watch something and enjoy it in the moment without armchair quarterbacking or second guessing characters decisions? "Oh, if I had that jetpack I would fly around blasting everyone from the air, these guys are idiots and this show is terrible honhonhonhon". Learn to suspend your disbelief, assume they ran out of fuel at that point or their backpacks were overheating/needed to recharge (as they had already been flying around a bit), etc.

Making gak up yourself to explain why the scene happens the way it does is no better than nit picking the scene in the first place. If you don't want to talk about this stuff, then don't engage. Simple as that.

Show me where the fiction hurt you. As it stands I'm not making anything up, I'm enjoying entertainment as its meant to be enjoyed without overthinking it in a manner that makes me nerd-rage about it online. The "making gak up" bit you refer to is literally something that I came up with in response to a complaint I read in this thread, rather than something I would think of in the moment of watching the show - the point was to illustrate an example of assuming that there are circumstances and events outside of your awareness that might explain why characters are acting the way they act.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Again - you don't actually know what happened off-camera. The fact that it happened off-camera suggests theres more to the story than your reductivist point of view might otherwise imply.

respectfully, we can only mark the work we are given, and can only judge what we are shown. whatever "really happened" with Luke off screen is irrelevant to the story of the Book of Boba Fett, because it happened off screen. Regardless of the intent of Luke, his actual, on screen (or directly inferable from what we see on screen) actions were to load grogu into an x-wing, piloted by his droid and send him off to tattoine to find mando, but not call ahead or otherwise make arrangements for his care or reception, and did so wearing the armour shirt.

thats about it. anything else is pure, unsubstantiated rumour.


now, i cannot for the life of me understand a in-universe reason for him to do this. the only reason i can think of is out of universe, which is they wanted grogu back with mando, and have him in the big end fight, but didnt want to introduce Luke or Ashoka to the big end fight (so they can't shortcut things and rob fett of any meaningful victory). so they had to resort to this stupid, bordering on child endangerment plan.

I agree - you can only mark the work we are given - the work does not include Grogus decision, only circumstances which allow us to infer a possibility of what it was, nor do we know why or how Grogu ended up in an X-Wing piloted by R2 on his way to mando - that Luke "loaded Grogu in and sent him to tatooine to find mando and did not call ahead or otherwise make arrangements for his care or reception" is in and of itself a "pure unsubstantiated rumor". Therefore it would be erroneous of us to judge and criticize the decisions made, etc. without knowing fully the backstory of what occurred. What we do know is the decision not to show these events was made deliberately, which is usually a fair indicator that there is more to the story (though in fairness "more to the story" does not necessarily mean that the story is different from what we have inferred).

chaos0xomega wrote:
So much unnecessary nitpicking.

Unnecessary nitpicking is when we poke fun at Pokemon sending ten-year-olds into an untamed wilderness full of super-powered monsters, mysterious godlike beings, and criminal syndicates with nothing but a pat on the back and electric rodent that shocks them repeatedly.

It can be fun, but it's kind of being a dick because that's just missing the point of a kid's TV show about the power of friendship and the great outdoors.

What's going on here isn't unnecessary nitpicking so much as just plain old nitpicking. If you enjoy Book of Boba Fett more power to you. Some of us didn't think the story worked. Maybe Star Wars fans should stop wondering about necessity and instead ponder maturity cause I gotta say I'm tired of these stupid bitch fights over how people are wrong for not liking the latest piece of Star Wars media. People can not like gak just as much as you like it. If talking about that is unnecessary, I can't help but wonder why you're bothering to comment on it.

chaos0xomega wrote:


Show me where the fiction hurt you.

How about you show me where I said that.

As it stands I'm not making anything up

You sure about that? Because...

The "making gak up" bit you refer to is literally something that I came up with in response to a complaint I read in this thread, rather than something I would think of in the moment of watching the show

Right, so... someone pointed out an issue that you yourself did not think of while watching, and then you... made up an explanation.

I'm enjoying entertainment as its meant to be enjoyed without overthinking it in a manner that makes me nerd-rage about it online.

Good for you, now let others who enjoy talking about this stuff get on with what they enjoy.

The joy of the Jedi way is they get to do completely reckless things and when it all works out, take credit because of the Force. He's just all like, "hey, R2, I need you to save Boba Fett for me. Just drop this kid off in a garage on Tatooine; it'll sort itself out from there."

 LunarSol wrote:
The joy of the Jedi way is they get to do completely reckless things and when it all works out, take credit because of the Force. He's just all like, "hey, R2, I need you to save Boba Fett for me. Just drop this kid off in a garage on Tatooine; it'll sort itself out from there."

Now see, I'd watch a parody series that played it like this XD Just Redshirts but Star Wars. I know Spaceballs was a spoof but that was a different brand of comedy.

I gotta say, this needing to see and have everything explained bit about Luke is the absolute worst thing about the Star Wars fandom.

Starwars Street exists because of it. Nobody gave a single feth where Han got his boots and vest until people started writing books and they made a movie about it. Nobody needed to see him gamble for his ship. And I don't need a flash back, comic, or novel from Grogru's perspective to see how the conversation between Luke and Grogru ended.

He got the shirt, he was sent home to daddy Mando. Decision was made. Move forward.

No gaps need filling. If you need to make up head canon to make that more interesting than it actually is you do you. But the show showed us what we needed to see to get the information we needed to have. He was given a choice. And then we saw the consequences of the choice.

 Lance845 wrote:
I gotta say, this needing to see and have everything explained bit about Luke is the absolute worst thing about the Star Wars fandom.

It's something that I think is hard too appreciate until you see the effect I has and have something to compare it to. I didn't really appreciate how great it can be to not have answers until I played Dark Souls 3 and saw its particular brand of world-building and all the fun that comes from having mountains of pieces and no picture of how they're supposed to fit together.

Not knowing stuff can be a lot of fun if you get your head in the right place.

The deal here is that I don't feel like I ever really knew anything. Boba Fett's motivations and goals are like liquid smoke. The world around him is a pastiche of set pieces that don't seem to fit together. Halfway into the series ti really stops being the Book of Boba Fett and instead becomes a sneak peek at Mandalorian Season 3 because seriously, you could cut off the first 4 episodes of BoBF and the last 3 still work fine on their own. That last bit especially leaves me feeling pretty vindicated in itself. No one just drops a good thing to drag in something a lot more successful and better. It speaks to a complete dearth of confidence in Book of Boba Fett before it had even aired. All of the big emotional payoff at the end of the series is Mando and Grogou, not Boba. Boba ends his own series feeling like an unnecessary hanger on to a much better story.

If someone likes it I'm glad they enjoyed it. I didn't.

He got the shirt, he was sent home to daddy Mando. Decision was made. Move forward.

And I also gotta say this isn't really much of a mystery. Grogou took the shirt. He knew the lady on Tatooine, she's no stranger to him. He did a pretty basic 'Nah, I'll go back to shiny man. I miss him. Let's try that Tatooine lady. He's either there or she can call him for me. Can I get a ride?' With Moff Gideon out of the way there's no reason to think anyone is hunting for him anymore so *shrug*

There's no real mystery how this happened and no need to create any kind of complex headcanon. It's a pretty basic A + B = C.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I gotta say, this needing to see and have everything explained bit about Luke is the absolute worst thing about the Star Wars fandom.

It's something that I think is hard too appreciate until you see the effect I has and have something to compare it to. I didn't really appreciate how great it can be to not have answers until I played Dark Souls 3 and saw its particular brand of world-building and all the fun that comes from having mountains of pieces and no picture of how they're supposed to fit together.

Not knowing stuff can be a lot of fun if you get your head in the right place.

The deal here is that I don't feel like I ever really knew anything. Boba Fett's motivations and goals are like liquid smoke. The world around him is a pastiche of set pieces that don't seem to fit together. Halfway into the series ti really stops being the Book of Boba Fett and instead becomes a sneak peek at Mandalorian Season 3 because seriously, you could cut off the first 4 episodes of BoBF and the last 3 still work fine on their own. That last bit especially leaves me feeling pretty vindicated in itself. No one just drops a good thing to drag in something a lot more successful and better. It speaks to a complete dearth of confidence in Book of Boba Fett before it had even aired. All of the big emotional payoff at the end of the series is Mando and Grogou, not Boba. Boba ends his own series feeling like an unnecessary hanger on to a much better story.

If someone likes it I'm glad they enjoyed it. I didn't.

Darksouls is a good example of the opposite in extreme. But Starwars is REALLY the complete polar opposite of Darksouls. I don't think I have ever seen anything spend so much time and effort and money invested in going back to fill in gaps. Like... Tales of the Mos Eisley Cantina. Are you kidding me? Whole stories for randoms sitting in a bar? Imagine getting a book of short stories about the patrons sitting in the diner when Bruce Willis explains time travel to young Bruce Willis in Looper.

This show drags because it spends SO MUCH of it's run time doing exactly that. A full 2 episodes run time (1/2 of the first 4 episodes) is spent trying to tell us what happened to Boba after he fell into the sarlac and before he met Mando. Why? It didn't REALLY add anything to the story. We knew he was with the Tuskens already. He showed up in Mando with their robes and their signature stick. We didn't need to see him make one.

I'd say the problem's more specific than that.

At least in BoBF. They spent a lot of time on scenes that were just there to be there. Yes. The Dances with Tuskans flashback added very little to the story compared to how much of the story's time it took up.

My thought though is that it doesn't give a lot of the answers that are really needed to make it work. Stuff like Boba's motivations and the setting of Mos Espa. It's kind of weird that they felt the need to make his back story with the Tuskans so elaborate while basically throwing the present-day plotline at the screen with basically no explanations beyond Boba walking around town and saying his name.

Agreed!

And just think... If instead of the Dances with Tuskens, we got ZERO flash backs and Boba was just a ruthless Ex Bounty Hunter in impenetrable armor covered in weapons and aspirations to rule we could have watched him kill and and recruit his way through Tatooines towns. Stirring up trouble and making enemies. It would have been way more entertaining.

The irony of complaining about how Stsr Wars fills in the blanks while discussing a show that exists and is solely premised upon filling in the blanks is incredible.

I promise you your posts insisting that Grogu turning up in the beskar shirt because he picked it over the lightsaber and Luke sent him home wont age well. Its Star Wars, you already know that they are going to explore that event in detail with a 4 part tie-in comic and an entire novel dedicated to that alone. The idea that they wouldn't is just mind boggling if you've ever spent more than 5 minutes engaging with the franchise.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The irony of complaining about how Stsr Wars fills in the blanks while discussing a show that exists and is solely premised upon filling in the blanks is incredible.

Depends on what blanks we're talking about. Knowing Boba was hanging out with Tuskans wasn't much of a blank. We already knew that, and as interesting as seeing what it was like was it didn't really need as much screen time as it did. I daresay, that blank was massively overfilled and took desperately needed time away from other blanks that could have used a bit more context!

That and I still find the apparent desire to remake whole scenes from Dances with Wolves kind of bizarre >.>

I promise you your posts insisting that Grogu turning up in the beskar shirt because he picked it over the lightsaber and Luke sent him home wont age well. Its Star Wars, you already know that they are going to explore that event in detail with a 4 part tie-in comic and an entire novel dedicated to that alone. The idea that they wouldn't is just mind boggling if you've ever spent more than 5 minutes engaging with the franchise.

You've got people in this thread mocking the franchise for the fact that this idea doesn't sound that outlandish. That it's not shocking as an idea isn't really related to the opinion that such a thing is completely unnecessary. About as unnecessary as spending a whole 4 part tie in comic on something that probably only compromised a fifteen to thirty-minute conversation. They could totally do it in a 10-12 panel web comic and it would be much better!

They could do it in a 3 panel web comic. The first panel is Luke giving the choice. The second panel is Grogru's face. The 3rd panel is him walking towards the shirt. Done.

Next, this show isn't premised on filling in blanks. It was premised on seeing what happened next after Boba killed Bib Fortuna and sat in the chair at the end of Mandos post credit scene.

Finally, the fact that I know they are going to cover the event in detail is the thing I am mocking them, and the fandom, for. Again, it's the WORST thing about SW. And the people who feed it by eating up every little shred of unneeded dross backstory are mostly to blame. Them and Dave Filoni.

 Lance845 wrote:
I gotta say, this needing to see and have everything explained bit about Luke is the absolute worst thing about the Star Wars fandom.

Starwars Street exists because of it. Nobody gave a single feth where Han got his boots and vest until people started writing books and they made a movie about it. Nobody needed to see him gamble for his ship. And I don't need a flash back, comic, or novel from Grogru's perspective to see how the conversation between Luke and Grogru ended.

He got the shirt, he was sent home to daddy Mando. Decision was made. Move forward.

No gaps need filling. If you need to make up head canon to make that more interesting than it actually is you do you. But the show showed us what we needed to see to get the information we needed to have. He was given a choice. And then we saw the consequences of the choice.

The worst part is, the show telegraphed the choice before hand, and hung a big honking lampshade on it as well.
'Here's the droid pod section, now it has breathable air because I need to inexplicably remind you that you don't like droids, so find someone small to carry around in your new sports car, rather than the winnebago gunship I should have scavenged for you.'

As boring as the Boba Fett section of the Book of Boba Fett was, we didn't need any part of the sequence where Mando went to see Grogu but didn't see Grogu so we could see Grogu learn to force crush a lightsaber dueling remote, because otherwise we wouldn't possibly know how he learned to level up his Force Pull power after a day of training. All while fake-Luke constantly dribbles 'memberberries about Yoda. I fething remember Empire, OK? Anyone who didn't see it won't understand why Luke is babbling about all this crap anyway. We could have had, I don't know, Fennec and B pull up to a cantina and hire some fething mercenaries and find out some meaningful info on the Pykes. Follow-up on the 'we've got treasure' line from two episodes back when this show was at least nominally about the main character.