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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Someone explain how the ARES is a good unit? With the new 10th flyer rules, it's gonna get laser'd down turn 1, and then there goes a quarter of the list. Better to take more spear guardians and pray for 6s.

Flyers aka aircraft arrive in the second turn because they start in strategic reserv, so can't be shot down except for overwatch which is highly unlikely. Also the Ares has Hover so it can be used as a non aircraft with 20" move.

5 saggis are amazingly good, what are you talking about, nemesis? They finally offer something truly different instead of being just flat out better than our puny spear guards.

Now both are good. The suppression thing is super strong and gives the piece a really good utility function.

Also, the devastating wounds rule is potentially pretty bonkers with 5 of these and exploding sixes.

Yeah I reckon Saggs are still looking pretty decent. The suppression rule and dev wounds is plenty of compensation for the loss of the 3 Dmg shot, especially considering they didnt lose any AP on either the bolter shots or the dagger attacks, in an edition where AP is supposed to be down

Really their only weakness is that they aren't as good as a caladius tank.

I played with Saggs lead by a Captain with the fall back and shoot upgrade.

They where really bad. I played vs orks. He had a gorkanaught and they where my best option to shoot it dead. I tried the devestating wounds and it came up with 6. So not a lot of damage. (Since it is T12 I needed 6's anyway.)

Also their dagger profile.into orks where not so impressive, neither where the gun profile. They might be good into other T5> armies but vs orks they did not do much.

Wardens where very strong and I highly recommend them.

Not having shots to damage tanks meant I used many CP on slayer of nightmares. I would recommend trying to get some high strength weapons for shooting.

 Niiai wrote:
I played with Saggs lead by a Captain with the fall back and shoot upgrade.

Why was there a need to support them with a captain?

The Saggs still look plenty good enough for me to put in lists. The squad size is a bit annoying, but that issue is hardly unique to them.

I was very glad that they kept the misericordia. With how they had be limiting it's use on other data sheets, I was afraid they would lose it.

Well if you like the models ok but i think normal guards are better in every way, even in shooting.

Shoot twice, full wound rerolls, cheaper and better melee punch.
I did not think they would be that good but in my games they absolutely murdered everything.

Have you been using Spear Guard or Sword & Board for your recent games?

Only spear guard, one squad with a blade champion and another squad with a shield captain.

Not sure about sword and shield, i mean yes they get +1 wound but there is a lot dmg 2 out there and they only have dmg 1 melee weapons, so for now i prefer spear guards.
Fight first eats a lot of cp but it is really important to get it, especially with spears. Because of that i could not use - dmg that much, so even if i had used sword and shield that dmg 2 would have gotten through.

 Smirrors wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I played with Saggs lead by a Captain with the fall back and shoot upgrade.

Why was there a need to support them with a captain?

Just testing out 10th edition and sagitarum. I wanted tradjan, captain and a blade champion. Tradjan and Captain where two sources of free fight first. Blade champion was a delivery system.

Tradjan never saw fight (he just abandoned that side of the battlefield.) The sagitarum was suppose to be ranged threath and a melee threath. They and Captain where suposse to run in and blend, fall back shoot do it again. But they where not that impressive into orks.

For holding backline a group of sisters would be better. (And they did.) We had a lot of line of sight blocking terrain so sagitarum did not use all of their range.

Blade champion was not that good in melee, but quite handy as a delivery system for wardens.

If you go for the blade champ I'd be more inclined to put him in a big unit of spear guard. The unit gives the blade champ re roll wounds on objectives, which is really nice with his devastating wounds profile.

Nice catch. I did not think of that.

I was looking for delivery systems. The blade guard delivers on that. I need to get units on objectives for the fight first strat.

hmm.. is it just me or is the landraider pretty damn good this time around?

put 5 spear guard and a blade champ in there for an insane threat range. That unit will tear into opponents backline like theres no tomorrow.

And especially if you dont have acces to calladius 4 lascannons that hit on twos is something your army will really need.

I think its a more than decent tool for us.

At it's current cost, the LR is a giant boat with "KILL ME" painted on it in neon Yellow and Green letters.

Are we going to get this thread renamed? Or a new one started? 50 pages is a lot.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
At it's current cost, the LR is a giant boat with "KILL ME" painted on it in neon Yellow and Green letters.

yes obviously. but there isn't anything id rather see than for my opponent to put shots into that t12 beast while my 5 guard plus blade wiz tear his back field apart.

We should open up a new thread. But I am rarly on the forums these days. Somebody else should start one if we ever want a good first page that can be edited with information.

Yes - the landraider is very good this time around. But the essential is that you oay 45 points more then a calladius and loose sustained hits and twin linked.

That is not the end of the world. But that jmeans you need to get a good use of those 45 points.

I am not shure if a blademaster is the best. The blademaster is veyr mobile. And you can use the rapid redeployment stratagem since they can deepstrike. If your opponent goes first he can make a charge turn 2. If you go first you might want to wait until turn 3.

The landraider always makes them very mobile. The Captain CP reduction or tradjan could easaly be riding the landraider.

After some more testing, I still can’t find a single reason why I’d ever want that 5x Sags over more Guard or Wardens. Sags got worse and Guard/Wardens now feel so strong, especially with character support.

The unit size I think is the biggest killer, being forced to take 5 instead of a nice backfield unit of 3

nemesis464 wrote:
After some more testing, I still can’t find a single reason why I’d ever want that 5x Sags over more Guard or Wardens. Sags got worse and Guard/Wardens now feel so strong, especially with character support.

The unit size I think is the biggest killer, being forced to take 5 instead of a nice backfield unit of 3

I can kinda still see a use for them. They are the long-range support. Put them in the center of the backline and you can soften up targets of opportunity in a large radius before the spear boys charge in. They also don't look too bad for denting things like land speeders.

Probably not news to people that the Anathema Psykana and Ordo Hereticus are good at murdering witches, but just saw a game with a unit of prosecutors led by =][= Katarinya Greyfax.

The combination is hideous. Technically the weapons are just bolters but [Psyocculum] gives them ANTI-PSYKER 4+ and [Purity Of Execution] gives them PRECISION and DEVASTATING WOUNDS, meaning any roll of a 4+ to wound becomes a character-seeking mortal wound.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
At it's current cost, the LR is a giant boat with "KILL ME" painted on it in neon Yellow and Green letters.

Cheaper than marine one and so far marine one has taken ridiculous effort to kill it. And by the time they have done that fired 2-3 times, delivered cargo, tied up enemy and body blocked.

Didn't custodian one have fnp vs mortals? Mortals been instrumental in few times its died.

Yes, that's an army-wide rule of 4+ from the shield host detachment


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spado wrote:
Guys why are there no rules for the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor?

I don't think the heresy era sisterhood stuff got 40k rules. It is possible to make a 40k anathema psykana army but there aren't many options.

nemesis464 wrote:
After some more testing, I still can’t find a single reason why I’d ever want that 5x Sags over more Guard or Wardens. Sags got worse and Guard/Wardens now feel so strong, especially with character support.

The unit size I think is the biggest killer, being forced to take 5 instead of a nice backfield unit of 3

I'd probably do a single squad of them now, but nothing more than that.

Seems like they're mainly for spamming -1 to hit on the biggest shooting or melee threat every turn. You can allocate 3 shots to the thing you want to debuff, and the rest to plinking off intercessors. The full squad kills about 4 intercessors a turn, assuming no cover. The dev wounds ability is roughly a bonus smite and should let them finish off the last guy when you need it.

The only other role I can think of is replacing your backfield objective holder (likely Prosecutors) with something that is less vulnerable to deep strike and indirect. Not sure if this really has much value though.

Their ideal target would be something like a T4 4+ multiwound infantry unit with good shooting, which doesn't really exist AFAIK.

I wouldn't run more than one either.

artific3r wrote:
. The full squad kills about 4 intercessors a turn, assuming no cover

I suppose killing 4 (76pts) and surprising something else is fairly decent if they’re sat on an objective and tough to shift.

Although regular Guard on an objective kill 3.125 Intercessors, are more versatile, are much scarier in combat, and are cheaper.

Sags do 7.5 wounds to a <T10 vehicle if they pop the special ability which is ok too I guess. The general toughness boost of lots of stuff hurts. T4 vs T5 is huge for heavy bolters. >

The shooting output of spear guard is, frankly, bonkers. The double shoot ability takes them way over the top. They're already an incredibly good unit, they really didn't need great shooting in addition to everything else. I expect nerfs.

I really like the allarus. That arm rocket is great. Re-rolling wounds vs vehicles/monsters and units with character is great. One ekstra wound, and they are T7!

I wish I could take more then 3 units. They are also a good backline units. Sisters for 40 points die to a stuff breeze.

Allarus are incredible janitors and clean up crew. It just occurred to me that with an Allarus captain you could potentially do a 0CP Rapid Ingress. Not sure if his abilities work when he's off the table though. Anyone know if there's an FAQ entry on this?

artific3r wrote:
Allarus are incredible janitors and clean up crew. It just occurred to me that with an Allarus captain you could potentially do a 0CP Rapid Ingress. Not sure if his abilities work when he's off the table though. Anyone know if there's an FAQ entry on this?

There doesn't appear to be any restriction on the ability, so I'd say its good to go.

Might be worth making use of it to RI 2 units on turn 2, its such a strong ability IMO.

artific3r wrote:
Allarus are incredible janitors and clean up crew. It just occurred to me that with an Allarus captain you could potentially do a 0CP Rapid Ingress. Not sure if his abilities work when he's off the table though. Anyone know if there's an FAQ entry on this?

My mate took two units of two in our last game, used them to deep strike onto two backfield objectives. Killed the grots holding them then took it. They got squished by a deffdread counter charging but they certainly seem to be a fantastic utility piece and gave him the extra points to win the match