Tyranid Codex rumours (first three full datasheets pg23)

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**Tyran**

Hierodules aren't LOW, Tyrannofexes aren't going to be LOW.

**Dudeface**

Tyran wrote:
xttz wrote:
New Exocrine stats

M +2"
WS/BS +1
W +3
Ld +1
Sv +1

Bio plasma cannon +D3 shots
S +1
AP +1
D +1

Presumably the existing rules for fire twice and +1 to hit when stationary have been removed or changed.

Spoiler:

I expect it to still have a +1 (or maybe re-rolls) to hit when Remained Stationary, because that is part of the lore of the model.
Firing twice is gone, because otherwise that thing would be broken. Likely also has blast which is a nerf for when it gets caught in melee.

Overall a massive improvement in all fields maybe except against light infantry given that it will fire less shots.
Moreover the +1 to WS and BS hopefully means our monsters (or at least our melee) now have 3+ to hit as standard, similar to how Daemon Engines went from 4+ to 3+ (or you know, like our FW models did).
+3 to wounds also probably means we have similar increases of wounds for our other monsters, kinda worried on the Tyrannofex and Tervigon as that may mean they got pushed to 18 wounds and thus may no longer benefit from cover (to be fair, they are very big and bulky models). It also means we are unlikely to have defensive special rules and will have to rely on sheer stats for defense, but I guess that's why we have Crusher Stampede.

But the one thing I'm the most hopeful is that with fire twice gone, we can actually move and fire that thing without sacrificing 2/3 of its firepower, allowing it to be far more dynamic, and we can assume the same thing will apply to the Tyrannofex.

I disliked the change for the daemon engines and I dislike the change here as well, unless the +1 for stationary is also gone. I like that not every army hits on a 3+, I like that being big doesn't = skilled. The game is based on the d6 and people seem to constantly want to be hitting things on a 3+ because otherwise it's not reliable enough/doesn't represent something being good at something, but it's just whittling down variance and options. The daemon engines were an interesting trade off (in theory) because it opened design options out for something that was either cheaper, or had potential to compensate the lower accuracy with higher burst potential. Instead they just got a 3+ because then they match the marines and to make them "better". What happens when everything hits on a 3+?

**Tyran**

Then you play Orks, who stil, hit on 5+.

Tyranids already had 3+ in many units, so it doesn't make much sense for other dedicated ranged creatures to hit on a 4+ (Tyrannofexes mostly at this point) or for dedicated melee creatures to hit on a 4+ (Haruspexes and Hormagaunts).

I do expect our non-dedicated creatures to still hit on a 4+ (Termagants, gargoyles, non-buffed warriors, raveners, non-buffed Carnifexes) for shooting, or spore creatures to still hit on a 5+ (but will have that 'shoot at everything' rule that the Space Marine bunker has).

Speaking of Haruspexes, I'm annoyed we are so close yet still so far to seeing their profile, making us beg for it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
From the main Tyranid thread:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Loving the new venom cannon

**Mr_Rose**

Wow, the Venom Canon went back almost to 2e stats (no thudd gun template though).

**Nevelon**

Wings cost a point of armor and toughness over just being on foot.

**Sasori**

I wonder how many bugs are going to get the T8, 2+ treatment. I'd like to see Carnifexes and Trygons get it for sure.

**Irbis**

Skywave wrote:
With 15 wounds it can survive 1 Rail Gun shot at least!

Well, "survive" because then it's on 3 wounds and hits on 5+ and moves 5 inches, letting Tau player just ignore it. Or plink down to 0 with a single shot with the rest of OP gak they can now field. For a model that is likely to cost substantially more than Hammerhead? That's just kinda sad...

Nevelon wrote:
As a way to make nids more survivable, I’d like to see them just have buckets of wounds. Rather than fancy tricks or gimmicky rules, you just need to pour fire into them to bring them down. Feels right for the faction.

And it layers nice with any gimmicks we do get...

The problem is, idiotic W2 squat decision pretty much broke the game. W12 Hive Tyrant has is effectively reduced to W6 by D2 spam that followed. Hell, W4 because Tau and co upped the inflation and now D3 is becoming more and more common on ridiculously small arms. With little to no save because AP grotesquely inflated too, especially on Xeno weapons. That's less durability than it had pretty much ever, doubly so with Tau just gunning them down at range while laughing at ++ saves.

And I like how Cheese'la Tau commander with glorified power fist can now effortlessly punch Swarmlord, supposedly one of the most deadly combatants in the 40K verse, to death. If Swarmlord even gets to melee and is not instantly vaporized by all the other OP crap the suit carries on the remaining 4 arms, all while costing less and being better at pretty much everything

**Tyran**

Lol that is some pre-codex saltiness.

**Skywave**

So the Swarmlord have 9 attacks at S9, AP-4 and D3. Also went to 13W, T8 and 2+ save.

Not bad at all.

Regular Tyrant only got 5A though (sad hiss noise), hope that he gets more with Scythe and/or Sword (or other buff like current expansion granting D3 attacks).

Heavy Venom looks really great with those stats. Even the Stranglethorn is pretty great here!

Monstrous Scything Talon lost a point of damage though, that's sad.

**Tyran**

Scything Talons are probably going to be our "do a lot of attacks" melee option.

**Skywave**

Tyran wrote:
Scything Talons are probably going to be our "do a lot of attacks" melee option.

I hope so, especially with multiple sets (so Trygon and Mawloc can benefit from have 3 sets). Also dual set is always cool-looking so if there's a bit more oomph to it, the better!

**Nevelon**

Skywave wrote:
So the Swarmlord have 9 attacks at S9, AP-4 and D3. Also went to 13W, T8 and 2+ save.

Not bad at all.

Regular Tyrant only got 5A though (sad hiss noise), hope that he gets more with Scythe and/or Sword (or other buff like current expansion granting D3 attacks).

Heavy Venom looks really great with those stats. Even the Stranglethorn is pretty great here!

Monstrous Scything Talon lost a point of damage though, that's sad.

Who knows what special rules might make up for it. These are just the raw, get-you-by, stats.

I know the whole “wait until we have the whole picture” thing gets dragged out a lot, but right now we only have a tiny fragment of info.

Right now I’m optimistic. Would have liked to see more attacks on the tyrant, but they are psychers and leaders, not just pure murder bugs. And they should be able to cause some harm with those.

**Sasori**

I'd also like to note, this looks like the end of Devourers on Tyrants. I'm glad all my weapon options across the range are magnetized.

Edit: I could easily see the Monstrous Scything talons be something like make 2 hit rolls for every attack, or +2 extra attacks or something.

**Kitane**

Tyran wrote:
Scything Talons are probably going to be our "do a lot of attacks" melee option.

I also hope so, massive/monstrous scything talons getting sweeping profile is one of my longest wishes for Tyranids. I know the Nids are modeled to "wield" them in the dumbest way possible, but they are still called scything talons for a reason, and these ones are 3-5m long...

edit: The omission of devourers and deathspitters makes zero sense.

**Tyran**

The Hive Tyrant kit doesn't have devourers or deathspitters, they are omitted because they aren't part of the box.

**Kitane**

Tyran wrote:
The Hive Tyrant kit doesn't have devourers or deathspitters, they are omitted because they aren't part of the box.

Oh right, it has been ages since I assembled my trio, and I keep their weapons in the same bag as Carnifex weapons.

**Nevelon**

I’m glad they are calling out the flyrants feet as weapons in the pic. I was a little worried in the next codex we’d loose a weapon option for them as one of the slots is taken up by the wings.

**Tyran**

Another change is that the heavy venom cannon and the stranglethorn cannon are now heavy weapons, something that is likely going to be reflected on the lesser, infantry versions.

**Skywave**

What I'm surprised by is that the Tyrant/Swarmy got bumped to T8 (and Flyrant at T7 is fine, makes sens fluff wise too they'd be a bit lighter and give something to consider between both option beside points) and 2+ save.

Makes me think most, is not all monsters gonna get 2+ save and a bump to their toughness too (I'd take +2T on Trygon for T8 please, look at the size of the thing!).

**Tyran**

I would be fine with the Trygon being a softer target if it comes with an increase in movement, it is a giant ravener after all.

Kinda hoping for the Tyrannofex to get T9 now.

**Voss**

Very much doubt we'll see T9.
That will be the desperate upgrade to the big marine tanks first.

**xttz**

Skywave wrote:
What I'm surprised by is that the Tyrant/Swarmy got bumped to T8 (and Flyrant at T7 is fine, makes sens fluff wise too they'd be a bit lighter and give something to consider between both option beside points) and 2+ save.

So happy to see a more distinct difference between the two options than just moving faster for a few extra points. Tyrant Guard look so cool, would be great to carve out a role for them.

Voss wrote:
Very much doubt we'll see T9.
That will be the desperate upgrade to the big marine tanks first.

Yeah I can't see T9 happening, hardly anything has it. I reckon the Tfex will get a couple of extra wounds and perhaps some special rule to make it tougher; like +1 to armour saves or some flavour of transhuman.

**Tamereth**

Fine cast stuff getting a plastic update seems likely.

If we get a giant size model I’ve hope for a dominatrix, which is large but not quite Titan sized.

I note a bunch of stuff is currently out of stock on the GW website, including the getting started kit. New artwork boxes incoming?

**H.B.M.C.**

So no Devourers/Deathspitters on Tyrants seems pretty likely. That's a shame.

Tyran wrote:
Kinda hoping for the Tyrannofex to get T9 now.

The Warlord Titan is T9, so I doubt that'll happen sadly. It should, of course, because things like the Warlord Titan should be Toughness 18, but still, GW introduced this 10+ characteristic scale for 8th and has so far been terrified of actually using it for anything outside of Strength, Wounds and occasionally Leadership.

**Dryaktylus**

Tyran wrote:
I would be fine with the Trygon being a softer target if it comes with an increase in movement, it is a giant ravener after all.

I never understood why Raveners should be that fast. Unless they use their bodies as a coil springs they should be slower than any other creature of similar size and weight with legs. I guess it's a heritage of the not-thought over-so-well 3rd edition codex.

**Sasori**

I'll add on to the Chorus that I don't think the Tyrannofex is getting T9. I could see more wounds though.

I'm okay with this being the toughness design choice for big bugs, if it's T8/2+. Diffrenates them quite a bit from -1 D and 5++ that's rolling around everywhere.

I'm curious How many bugs are going to get the upped toughness treatment.

**Spreelock**

Very unlikely we'll see t9 on the Tyranids. The game had only 3 models with t10 (Aquila strong points and fortress of redemption) and one model with t9 (warlord titan). And now they've dropped the fortress of redemption to t8.

**DarkStarSabre**

Nevelon wrote:
I’d rather our giant monsters had stats and points to match their looks.

Right now their game mechanics are just not doing justice to the look of the minis.

How may points of army is that gun killing in one shot? Not a small amount.

T6 is ridiculous tbh. Even more so on Trygons and Mawlocs when you consider the size of them. Ridiculous on Carnifexes which used to be one of the absolute toughest beasts in the game and now is one of our weakest.

**xttz**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So no Devourers/Deathspitters on Tyrants seems pretty likely. That's a shame.

FW still sell Flyrant devourers - the options shown here are literally what's in the box.

**DarkStarSabre**

Tamereth wrote:
Fine cast stuff getting a plastic update seems likely.

If we get a giant size model I’ve hope for a dominatrix, which is large but not quite Titan sized.

I note a bunch of stuff is currently out of stock on the GW website, including the getting started kit. New artwork boxes incoming?

Reboxing with new rules as seen in this thread already.

I know as I'm currently waiting for some Warriors and a Harpy from a FLGS which is on back order atm.