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To be honest, I'm just happy we get to use both venom cannon and barbed strangler for every 3 models.

We actually got something out of GW's "you only get to use bits on the box" obsession, it seems it also means "you only get to use ALL the bits on the box".

Woof thats a big points jump, say goodbye to cheap 17 point scytal warriors :( Actually say goodbye to scytal warriors period? Why would you ever want to field them if they cost the same as literally any other weapon loadout other than cannons? dual boneswords for the same price as scytals is a no-brainer, the dual boneswords have better S, AP, D, and you get the same additional attack bonus.

I guess they really want to incentivize max sized squads with the adrenal/tox/flesh hook costing then, more efficient to take tox sacs and adrenal glands for 9 minis than 3.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Woof thats a big points jump, say goodbye to cheap 17 point scytal warriors :( Actually say goodbye to scytal warriors period? Why would you ever want to field them if they cost the same as literally any other weapon loadout other than cannons? dual boneswords for the same price as scytals is a no-brainer, the dual boneswords have better S, AP, D, and you get the same additional attack bonus.

I guess they really want to incentivize max sized squads with the adrenal/tox/flesh hook costing then, more efficient to take tox sacs and adrenal glands for 9 minis than 3.

While I agree dual boneswords (or rather, quad boneswords, that is now a thing) are better, note the wording of the weapons. You get an additional attack for each scything talon, so a full scytal warrior gets 7 attacks.

Holy smokes, you're right!

 Tyran wrote:
To be honest, I'm just happy we get to use both venom cannon and barbed strangler for every 3 models.

We actually got something out of GW's "you only get to use bits on the box" obsession, it seems it also means "you only get to use ALL the bits on the box".

Well don't say it too loud because the box don't have enough swords to quad-wield them on every warriors!

chaos0xomega wrote:
Dunno if these have been posted yet, first time I've seen them (I *think* these are new datasheets/rules? I dont have the current nids book to compare to):

Spoiler:

Wow, so... that's a lot.

First- uh, gargoyles are troops now? (Triangle on the sheet, not lightning jag of fast attack) I miss their melee/bioplasma. Oh well.
Why are they troops?

Warriors-
Immediate reaction- I have no idea what the barbed strangler is for. None. I'd rather have the Ap and fixed shots of the deathspitter. Its just a better TAC weapon. I guess if you KNOW you're fighting orks, you'd take the strangler. At least the venom cannon has a point, even if d3 attacks still sucks. Deathspitter seems like the clear winner for ranged attacks, to be honest.

Bonesword and lashwhip. Pass. I'd rather have dual swords all the time. I'd be surprised if there aren't other sources of reroll ones.
Scything talons are pointless.... Edit: well, maybe not completely if you're getting a bonus attack per talon.
Rending claws- I'd rather have swords, but at least there is a definite function to claws.

Adrenal glands are really good. Flesh hooks are bizarrely specific and corner case. Lashwhips.. eh. Toxin sacs... not for this unit. Potentially nice on a unit that's throwing a lot of low strength attacks, but that clearly isn't the warriors' role.

Adrenal deathspitter dual bone warriors. Every time. Especially if everything is the same cost bar cannons.

Slotless primes? Kinda nice.

I'm going to mutter obscenities about the primes getting the ability to take cannons back. I just switched it over to the current legal loadout a couple months back.

Amazed that so much is on the datasheets.

toxin hormas are going to be so nasty, and probably expensive, but so nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Immediate reaction- I have no idea what the barbed strangler is for.

Range.

A small unit of warriors sitting of an objective probably wants a barbed strangler and a venom cannon to be able to contribute against far away targets.

Just need to see how much adrenal glands cost but it seems warriors are a top pick.

Max 20 Gargoyles per unit, hey?

I guess these new datsheets also all but confirm that dakkdarants and x4 dakkafexas are dead now.

Hope you magnetized those...

 Tyran wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Woof thats a big points jump, say goodbye to cheap 17 point scytal warriors :( Actually say goodbye to scytal warriors period? Why would you ever want to field them if they cost the same as literally any other weapon loadout other than cannons? dual boneswords for the same price as scytals is a no-brainer, the dual boneswords have better S, AP, D, and you get the same additional attack bonus.

I guess they really want to incentivize max sized squads with the adrenal/tox/flesh hook costing then, more efficient to take tox sacs and adrenal glands for 9 minis than 3.

While I agree dual boneswords (or rather, quad boneswords, that is now a thing) are better, note the wording of the weapons. You get an additional attack for each scything talon, so a full scytal warrior gets 7 attacks.

Well 5 bonesword attacks still better. So if cost true lol

...So Trygons are gonna have a ****ton of attacks then?

tneva82 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Woof thats a big points jump, say goodbye to cheap 17 point scytal warriors :( Actually say goodbye to scytal warriors period? Why would you ever want to field them if they cost the same as literally any other weapon loadout other than cannons? dual boneswords for the same price as scytals is a no-brainer, the dual boneswords have better S, AP, D, and you get the same additional attack bonus.

I guess they really want to incentivize max sized squads with the adrenal/tox/flesh hook costing then, more efficient to take tox sacs and adrenal glands for 9 minis than 3.

While I agree dual boneswords (or rather, quad boneswords, that is now a thing) are better, note the wording of the weapons. You get an additional attack for each scything talon, so a full scytal warrior gets 7 attacks.

Well 5 bonesword attacks still better. So if cost true lol

From what we know you are right. But we also have the Chainsword situation where no multiple additional attacks are allowed so both could just be 4 Attacks and also there might be a strat that does something with Scything talons and not with Boneswords. I would be fine if Talons are for tons of attack, Sword for Elite and Claws for high Save enemies. For me these leaks point in that direction

Do warriors with 4 scything talons really have 7A S6 DS1 with AG?

No bio-plasma on Gargs? GW do you even look at your models?

 Astmeister wrote:
Do warriors with 4 scything talons really have 7A S6 DS1 with AG?

Until they FAQ it to a single extra attack no matter how many pairs you have.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
No bio-plasma on Gargs? GW do you even look at your models?

Calm your tits, might be moved to a Strat.

Do 'Nids have HIVE TENDRIL as a Faction Keyword at the moment? Seems an odd one.

I wonder if that "Endless Multitude" keyword is the new "Without Number" rule for gaunts? Some way to respawn them without using reinforcement points.

 Dysartes wrote:
Do 'Nids have HIVE TENDRIL as a Faction Keyword at the moment? Seems an odd one.

No, I think that's been added to help with current detachment building rules, and because the old TYRANIDS keyword is also used by GSC.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Do warriors with 4 scything talons really have 7A S6 DS1 with AG?

Until they FAQ it to a single extra attack no matter how many pairs you have.

I think that would be weird, because in this case it does not matter whether you have 1 or 2 pairs.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Do warriors with 4 scything talons really have 7A S6 DS1 with AG?

Until they FAQ it to a single extra attack no matter how many pairs you have.

Doubt it. The rule has, literally, nothing to do with pairs of talons. In the equip part you can only take them n pairs, but that’s different.

A Scything Talon (NO s) let’s you make one extra attack with it. Thus each Talon you’re equipped with gives you an extra attack with the Scything Talon profile. Ork Dread Klaws have the exact same wording and get +4 attacks when loaded up with max Klaws.

Will be interesting to see the strats. Lot of Keyword being tossed around.

I suspect gargs might have lost some of their special rules in the move to the troop slot. But also suspect that they will get them back as strats.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Calm your tits, might be moved to a Strat.

Oh goody...

Bitharne wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Do warriors with 4 scything talons really have 7A S6 DS1 with AG?

Until they FAQ it to a single extra attack no matter how many pairs you have.

Doubt it. The rule has, literally, nothing to do with pairs of talons. In the equip part you can only take them n pairs, but that’s different.

A Scything Talon (NO s) let’s you make one extra attack with it. Thus each Talon you’re equipped with gives you an extra attack with the Scything Talon profile. Ork Dread Klaws have the exact same wording and get +4 attacks when loaded up with max Klaws.

Also, contrast the “pair of boneswords” profile which is explicit that you only get one extra attack for each pair.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
No bio-plasma on Gargs? GW do you even look at your models?

Calm your tits, might be moved to a Strat.

That... isn't a good thing.
Burning a resource on a unit that will just go splat (when formerly they could do it innately) is a loss. Pure and simple.


I'm more concerned by the troops shift. It makes tyranid brigades a little harder.
ObSec is a little nice, but they've got so little durability...

Gargoyles seem a little expensive at 8 PPM if that power is accurate.

Warriors are looking like they are going to be the way to go. Deathspitters and Dual Boneswords ahoy!

Haven't we had this whole scything talon thing before with "is it 1 per set or 1 per pair or 1 per model". I don't seem to recall it ever being one per talon when talons are bought in pairs. If it were 2 attacks per talon set I'd expect GW to say 2 attacks rather than 1 per part of the model.

I'd wager more likely its just a dropped s in editing rather than intentional 2 attacks per talon pair

 Overread wrote:
Haven't we had this whole scything talon thing before with "is it 1 per set or 1 per pair or 1 per model". I don't seem to recall it ever being one per talon when talons are bought in pairs. If it were 2 attacks per talon set I'd expect GW to say 2 attacks rather than 1 per part of the model.

I'd wager more likely its just a dropped s in editing rather than intentional 2 attacks per talon pair

It's the same wording as Lightning Claws. It's an additional attack per each talon.

 Overread wrote:
Haven't we had this whole scything talon thing before with "is it 1 per set or 1 per pair or 1 per model". I don't seem to recall it ever being one per talon when talons are bought in pairs. If it were 2 attacks per talon set I'd expect GW to say 2 attacks rather than 1 per part of the model.

I'd wager more likely its just a dropped s in editing rather than intentional 2 attacks per talon pair

You would lose that wager. Note the wargear wording, scything talons sets are no longer a thing, each scything talon is its own weapon.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I guess these new datsheets also all but confirm that dakkdarants and x4 dakkafexas are dead now.

Hope you magnetized those...

Dakkatyrants are dead, but I fail to see why dakkafexes would be, specially when the warrior datasheet allows things like quad boneswords.

 Overread wrote:
Haven't we had this whole scything talon thing before with "is it 1 per set or 1 per pair or 1 per model". I don't seem to recall it ever being one per talon when talons are bought in pairs. If it were 2 attacks per talon set I'd expect GW to say 2 attacks rather than 1 per part of the model.

I'd wager more likely its just a dropped s in editing rather than intentional 2 attacks per talon pair

I don’t know.

Right now it looks like they are the blender option, where we can just toss out a LOT of fairly basic attacks. To offset how nice the boneswords are looking, +1 per claw seems like it’s balanced.

The looser of the melee weapons looks to be the rending claws. Sure, it’s got all that AP, but it’s only doing 1 wound. How many high armored 1W models are there these days?