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So no Red Terror or am I missing some page?

 Shadow Walker wrote:
So no Red Terror or am I missing some page?

Red Terror has indeed been removed. RIP.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
So no Red Terror or am I missing some page?

Red Terror was an artefact and the Trygon/Mawloc was somehow, conceptually, it's replacement.

The Harpy's new 'Manoeuvrable' ability makes it less manoeuvrable than before.

And WTF with removing the Red Terror?!

The thing with the red terror is they're still selling it.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Tyranid-Red-Terror

Might be some recent buyers are about to be very disappointed with their purchase.

Arson Fire wrote:
The thing with the red terror is they're still selling it.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Tyranid-Red-Terror

Might be some recent buyers are about to be very disappointed with their purchase.

Not for long, i bet

Honestly its just a big ravener right now. Considering its lore and history its a huge shame GW didn't take the opportunity to update it.

A shame to lose it, but I hope it comes back, conceptually its always been a great model and I don't regret my metal one one bit. Fingers crossed we see it again (along with that darn plastic biovore/pyrovore and lictor/deathleaper pair of kits!!)

Arson Fire wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Have any of the leaks said whether Carnifexes are still split into 3 types (regular, thornback, screamerkiller) and whether they still have all of their biomorphs like Acid maw or regeneration?

Someone just dumped pretty much the entire codex on discord. There's a lot to compile, but it should be everywhere soon. Have these to tide you over.

Seriously, do we have a link for this discord?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, did I read that right? Screamer-Killers having TEN attacks?!

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Seriously, do we have a link for this discord?

https://discord.gg/bHT4vbA

Also, did I read that right? Screamer-Killers having TEN attacks?!

Yes. 11 on the charge.

Not sure what the rules on linking are, but there are compilations on the 40k competitive reddit.

Grabbed the codex in full from google drive via reddit (warhammercompetitive subreddit, thank me later). Bit disappointed. Fexes neither seem to have had a massive points drop (they did get a slight reduction it seems couple with a massive increase in capability, so they truly aren't bad, just not what I was hoping for), didn't become elites, didn't get T8, etc. I didn't expect them to get all of the above, just hoped for one of those three.

 stonehorse wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

Think you may be over thinking this, GW aren't the best when it comes to explaining their rules, remember the back & forth debate about how many weapons a Monstrous Creature could use in Overwatch due to the wording say may make an attack?

There's really not much to overthink here.
'Scything Talon' is a weapon. You get two of them. Each one grants an extra attack, worded the same as lightning claws (minus the re-roll wounds bit).
Do space marines with two lightning claws not get two extra attacks?

GW have treated Tyranid melee weapons as a pair being equivalent to a single melee weapon since pretty much forever*. Your argument is that the weapon profile lists Scything Talon and not Scything Talons, there for as models have them in sets they get 2 extra attacks.

Prepare to be disappointed, because when GW do their FAQ/Errata they will say words to the effect of treat each pair as a single Scything Talon.

*one exception is Bonesword and Lashwhip combo.

Seriously, did you read... *anything*??

The argument isn't that it lists "scything talon" instead of "scything talons", its that the datasheet very explicitly says you get *2* scything talons per set of arms, i.e. you can have a total of *4* scything talons per model. These are not "pairs of scything talons", or "sets of scything talons", but very explicitly stated as multiple individual scything talons.

Again, reading is FUNdamental.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Given that the wargear option list is "... 1 bonesword and 1 lash whip; 1 dual boneswords; 2 rending claws; 2 scything talons", it's very clear that they are two distinct weapons and not 1 paired weapon.

This.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "territorial instincts" biomorphology makes me think Crusher Stampede is no longer valid.

 nordsturmking wrote:
so nids genestealers vs GSC genestealer:

GSC stealer:
hit on 2+
can advance and charge
always have a 4++
cost 14 points

Nids stealer:
hit in 3+
can not advance and charge
have 5++ and 4++ in CC
cost 16 points

WTF did i miss something?

Yeah, that's a big nerf for Genestealers there.

Lots of Force Org Changes. Interesting.

Nice to see Elites getting some padding for Monsters. No sign of Slayer Sabres or Synaptic Hive Blades though so RIP that build. Looks like the Reaper of Obliterax is likely as a replacement for Mortal Wounds and ignoring FNP.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, did I read that right? Screamer-Killers having TEN attacks?!

Yep. Their ScyTals are baked into their profile (as SK talons)

At least 'Fexes got the '-1 damage rule,' as their profile stays kind of bad (adrenal glands seem mandatory)
Annoying that tusks and acid maw just confer keywords.
Spine banks are really naff, and bioplasma isn't anything to write home about.

Hmm. I don't _think_ any of my fexes are invalidated.
Overall I think I like it. They can be built to be reasonably dangerous balls of death that you can just point and send off.

Like the warriors, they have a trap build- two pairs of crushing claws, which provides no benefits of any kind.
Not entirely sold on the crushing claws anyway, since the base attacks of the model are so low (though you can still have some additional attacks with other things).

chaos0xomega wrote:
Grabbed the codex in full from google drive via reddit (warhammercompetitive subreddit, thank me later). Bit disappointed. Fexes neither seem to have had a massive points drop (they did get a slight reduction it seems couple with a massive increase in capability, so they truly aren't bad, just not what I was hoping for), didn't become elites, didn't get T8, etc. I didn't expect them to get all of the above, just hoped for one of those three.

 stonehorse wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

Think you may be over thinking this, GW aren't the best when it comes to explaining their rules, remember the back & forth debate about how many weapons a Monstrous Creature could use in Overwatch due to the wording say may make an attack?

There's really not much to overthink here.
'Scything Talon' is a weapon. You get two of them. Each one grants an extra attack, worded the same as lightning claws (minus the re-roll wounds bit).
Do space marines with two lightning claws not get two extra attacks?

GW have treated Tyranid melee weapons as a pair being equivalent to a single melee weapon since pretty much forever*. Your argument is that the weapon profile lists Scything Talon and not Scything Talons, there for as models have them in sets they get 2 extra attacks.

Prepare to be disappointed, because when GW do their FAQ/Errata they will say words to the effect of treat each pair as a single Scything Talon.

*one exception is Bonesword and Lashwhip combo.

Seriously, did you read... *anything*??

The argument isn't that it lists "scything talon" instead of "scything talons", its that the datasheet very explicitly says you get *2* scything talons per set of arms, i.e. you can have a total of *4* scything talons per model. These are not "pairs of scything talons", or "sets of scything talons", but very explicitly stated as multiple individual scything talons.

Again, reading is FUNdamental.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Given that the wargear option list is "... 1 bonesword and 1 lash whip; 1 dual boneswords; 2 rending claws; 2 scything talons", it's very clear that they are two distinct weapons and not 1 paired weapon.

This.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "territorial instincts" biomorphology makes me think Crusher Stampede is no longer valid.

I did indeed read the leaked datasets, I understand the argument being presented, and I can see how it does make sense and reads as if GW have bucked their trend with how they treat Tyranid Scything Talons. Moving from pairs/sets to individual weapons.

This would make sense and help Tyranids in melee... but this is GW and Tyranids. GW have a well established history of treating Tyranids like the red haired step child, since after the glory that was the 3rd edition Codex. So I have strong doubt about how people are interpreting Scything Talon/s.

Well, very happy with the kraken stuff (especially the new version of the relic skin...no rerolls to hit against me!! hahah!!!) and the whole +8" to move when advancing is gonna make hormies stupid.

Like the changes to the other fleets too, nothing truly awful, even if it does seem, kraken, levi and behemoth may be the overall better ones at least gorgon got some interesting stuff this time.

Didn't think they'd make fleet stealers quite so different to GSC ones but at least they have forward deployment shenanigans now and there is a very small chance that the infestation node might actually see the table in a casual game. maybe theres now an argument for the extra carapace seeing as no advance and charge naturally? points gonna really start adding up there as mine are deffo getting the old style rending sacs treatment.10 man max squads is disappointing though.
ultimately, I've always prefferred GSC stealers being better than fleet ones so i'm not actually all that upset about this at all.

Looks like my dedication to fielding Screamer killers has finally paid off..11 attacks on the charge!! -1 dam!!!

Venomthropes cover aura not being linked to how many you have in the unit means 3 man squads might be useful again..

Some quite insane strategems there with loads of ways to spew out mortal wounds.

Really like the two part fleet trait system, makes you feel like you are adapting to your enemy by being allowed to change some of it.

Very glad my hiveguard have always been shockcannon. Thats a fair old nerf to the impaler.

Lictors... ok so these things doubled in price, but woah..thats one heck of a statline/damage output increase.

Pyrovores..after years of been utterly rubbish, and 1 edition of being kinda ok (8th) are starting to look kinda tempting. Still not gonna get any til they replace that awful finecast monstrosity though.

Resonably decent overall for the generic relics, quite like the new relic HVC and the maw claws (which just seem to be a weapon "upgrade" now rather than replacing anything??) but again, I've used chameleonic skin for ages so stoked to see it get even better.

Not sure what to say about the biovore changes til ive had a chance to use them, but having to do an action to make mine units seems a bit of a downgrade.

i can however see some great kraken based 1st turn movement shenanigans with the strats and maybe even a tervigon for its synaptic imperative ability thing.

Massively happy my tyrant can now fire his HVC in combat, was a bit annoyed when 9th came along and it was all "Look! tanks and monsters can blaze away in combat!! unless you have a blast weapon of course......


Mawloc has 16...16 attacks?!!!! rattle tail thing very interesting? (tails on tyrants much improved too) very happy to see fex still have different tail options (apart from my beloved Sk's but hey, 11 attacks on the charge

Overall, i can definitely see big units of hormies and termies coming back into fashion and am happy with the stat boosts for the majority of big gribblies (flyrant excepted but frankly, we've leant on that crutch for so long its finally snapped)

All i need now are the crusade rules (always the most fun part of these 9th ed books for me..the GSC one is just soo much fun)

p.s., just noticed you can get an obsec tyrant with one of the warlord traits i think but then realised...oooooo obsec untargetable tervigon!!!

So...does anyone know how that "Hyper Adaptaion" thing works exactly?

So, essentially the whole codex has leaked, and some of the new stuff is looking really strong (particularly leviathan and behemoth). And some things got nerfed to oblivion (rip hiveguard). I've got trouble to understand the new synaptic imperative rules, you get to choose one imperative per battle round that affects every synapse unit (and a unit within 6"), provided that you have the specific unit in your army list and on the table. But you cannot choose the same effect more than once per battle. What happens if I got two units with same ability (eg. Warriors or hive tyrant).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So...does anyone know how that "Hyper Adaptaion" thing works exactly?

Every hive fleet comes with 2 traits: one fixed and one adaptive. Before the battle starts (so after seeing your opponent's list) you can opt to replace the adaptive trait with one from the Hunt, Lurk or Feed lists, but every hive fleet only has access to two of the lists. If you replace it, it goes for the rest of the battle.

So for example, Leviathan has the fixed trait that a 1-3 to wound always fails against Synapse units, and a 1-2 always fails against non-Synapse units within synapse range. And it has the adaptive trait that it can re-roll one hit roll every time the unit shoots or fights. You can opt to replace that re-roll trait with one trait from the Hunt or Feed lists (as that is what Leviathan has access to), for example adding +1 to all charge rolls.

 Spreelock wrote:
So, essentially the whole codex has leaked, and some of the new stuff is looking really strong (particularly leviathan and behemoth). And some things got nerfed to oblivion (rip hiveguard). I've got trouble to understand the new synaptic imperative rules, you get to choose one imperative per battle round that affects every synapse unit (and a unit within 6"), provided that you have the specific unit in your army list and on the table. But you cannot choose the same effect more than once per battle. What happens if I got two units with same ability (eg. Warriors or hive tyrant).

I beleive its still each specific one once per game, regardless of how many units you have with that particular ability. otherwise it would say something like "each unit with this ability may use it once per game" not "each imperative may be used once per game" or words to that effect.

Some of these are REALLY good though...the tervigon one stands out as possibly broken in Kraken for a start, i mean, hormagaunts with effectively a 20" move?? still able to charge with psychic power or the hormie strat?? 3 attacks at -2 coz kraken??? even more shenanigans with the various army trait options?? i think once per game is fine when you remember that EVERY synapse creature in your army gets that aura on the turn you use an imperative, not just the tervigon, warriors or whatever.

ooo, if these turn out to be fake sheets im gonna look like a complete fool

 Spreelock wrote:
I've got trouble to understand the new synaptic imperative rules, you get to choose one imperative per battle round that affects every synapse unit (and a unit within 6"), provided that you have the specific unit in your army list and on the table. But you cannot choose the same effect more than once per battle. What happens if I got two units with same ability (eg. Warriors or hive tyrant).

You need to have a Synapse unit of that type alive to use its synaptic imperative. So if you have 2 Warrior units then you can still activate the Warrior imperative if one of the units is killed before you used it.

 Redemption wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So...does anyone know how that "Hyper Adaptaion" thing works exactly?

Every hive fleet comes with 2 traits: one fixed and one adaptive. Before the battle starts (so after seeing your opponent's list) you can opt to replace the adaptive trait with one from the Hunt, Lurk or Feed lists, but every hive fleet only has access to two of the lists. If you replace it, it goes for the rest of the battle.

So for example, Leviathan has the fixed trait that a 1-3 to wound always fails against Synapse units, and a 1-2 always fails against non-Synapse units within synapse range. And it has the adaptive trait that it can re-roll one hit roll every time the unit shoots or fights. You can opt to replace that re-roll trait with one trait from the Hunt or Feed lists (as that is what Leviathan has access to), for example adding +1 to all charge rolls.

Ooo that's spicy. I like it.

so is anyone seeing where it says Hive Tyrants are limited to 1/detachment? Cuz I dont... possible its on one of the several missing pages of rules from all this

You still can't use the ability a second time - or at least I'm sure that's what their intent was. It could be written out more clearly though as you can totally interpet "that ability" as "the ability that specific Tyrant/Warriors have" and not "the ability that is unlocked by having Tyrants/Warriors"

What do people think the best warrior and carnifex loadouts are going to be?

 Redemption wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
I've got trouble to understand the new synaptic imperative rules, you get to choose one imperative per battle round that affects every synapse unit (and a unit within 6"), provided that you have the specific unit in your army list and on the table. But you cannot choose the same effect more than once per battle. What happens if I got two units with same ability (eg. Warriors or hive tyrant).

You need to have a Synapse unit of that type alive to use its synaptic imperative. So if you have 2 Warrior units then you can still activate the Warrior imperative if one of the units is killed before you used it.

Worth noting that there is a strat to use an imperative for a dead synapse unit in case it gets picked off early.

Also the Leviathan psychic power allows use of any synaptic imperative for a single unit.

chaos0xomega wrote:
so is anyone seeing where it says Hive Tyrants are limited to 1/detachment? Cuz I dont... possible its on one of the several missing pages of rules from all this

That page is missing from the leak

tneva82 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Really surprised at the Gaunt weapon changes. I'm guessing there's a strat to boost Devourers and Spinefists as that's the only way I can imagine anyone taking them over Fleshborers.

Well that's fine by GW. They have sold plenty of those before. Time to sell something else instead.

Then it's a good thing that they just released a combat patrol with only termagants. You're so ridiculous.

drakerocket wrote:
What do people think the best warrior and carnifex loadouts are going to be?

For Warriors, dual boneswords + deathspitters and adrenal glands are looking pretty tasty. 4 S8 attacks AP-2 D2 attacks per model.

For the Fexes, The Screamer-Killers with adrenal glands looks bonkers. 11" move, T7 W9 2+ with -1D taken, 11 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks on the charge and up to -4 leadership is no longer simply a distraction-fex, it's a biological murder machine! It didn't even go up in cost.

Question for the forum. With rippers, the leak lists only spinefists as the weapon. Does anyone know the base profile of Ripper teeth and claws? I'll be really sad if they continue to be pretty worthless in terms of melee.

Okay, not really sad. That was just the one thing I was hoping to come back -- the ability to run a ripper carpet that actually does something. Besides that, this book seems crazy awesome and the datasheets are great. I'm just afraid the strats and other bonuses might make it too good...

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Question for the forum. With rippers, the leak lists only spinefists as the weapon. Does anyone know the base profile of Ripper teeth and claws? I'll be really sad if they continue to be pretty worthless in terms of melee.

It just has a basic close combat weapon, so 4 S3 AP- D1 attacks per base.