Tyranid Codex rumours (first three full datasheets pg23)

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**Arson Fire**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Have any of the leaks said whether Carnifexes are still split into 3 types (regular, thornback, screamerkiller) and whether they still have all of their biomorphs like Acid maw or regeneration?

Someone just dumped pretty much the entire codex on discord. There's a lot to compile, but it should be everywhere soon. Have these to tide you over.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

So pretty much everything is leaking on Discord right now.

Trygon Prime has 12, TWELVE attacks. So I was right...

**Arson Fire**

EDIT: Actually I'm having second thoughts about posting this. It's pretty much the whole codex, which might make the mods upset. I'm sure it won't be hard to find, but I might just edit it out.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Mawloc has SIXTEEN attacks. They're only S7 AP-1 D1, but still...

**ClockworkZion**

Well they made sure Gaunts don't get the good versions of scything talons or devourers:

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Hormies still get 3 attacks at least. But yeah, RIP Devilgaunts...

**ClockworkZion**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Hormies still get 3 attacks at least. But yeah, RIP Devilgaunts...

As a long time fan of devilgaunts (I mean they even have the coolest nickname) it feels like an unfair nerf. Like was it so wrong to let them keep assault 3 on what's basically a lasgun?

EDIT: Toxin sacs are basically an autotake on Hormagaunts. Maybe Adrenal Glands too (Move 11" anyone?).

**tneva82**

Wonder how common gargoyles will be for anti-tau. Getting to combat without overwatch might be useful there just to tie stuff up.

**cuda1179**

LOL, a dakkafex can get 30-32 shots in one turn. 24=D3 at strength 6, and 5 more at strength 5. Not too bad looking.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Gaunts have a 5+ save now. Their survivability just doubled!*

*Too bad everyone and their mother now has AP-1 weapons, including gaunts now...

**ClockworkZion**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Gaunts have a 5+ save now. Their survivability just doubled!*

*Too bad everyone and their mother now has AP-1 weapons, including gaunts now...

Guess that's one way to let them have a 6+ save in a world of AP-1.

**stonehorse**

Arson Fire wrote:
stonehorse wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
stonehorse wrote:

Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

Think you may be over thinking this, GW aren't the best when it comes to explaining their rules, remember the back & forth debate about how many weapons a Monstrous Creature could use in Overwatch due to the wording say may make an attack?

There's really not much to overthink here.
'Scything Talon' is a weapon. You get two of them. Each one grants an extra attack, worded the same as lightning claws (minus the re-roll wounds bit).
Do space marines with two lightning claws not get two extra attacks?

GW have treated Tyranid melee weapons as a pair being equivalent to a single melee weapon since pretty much forever*. Your argument is that the weapon profile lists Scything Talon and not Scything Talons, there for as models have them in sets they get 2 extra attacks.

Prepare to be disappointed, because when GW do their FAQ/Errata they will say words to the effect of treat each pair as a single Scything Talon.

*one exception is Bonesword and Lashwhip combo.

**H.B.M.C.**

2+ save! 2+ save! 2+ save! 2+ save! 2+ save! 2+ save! 2+ mother fething save!

I cannot begin to tell you how happy seeing that on a Carnifex makes me.

[EDIT]: Please post the Trygon/Prime/Mawloc!

[EDIT 2]: Can't say I'm a fan of the bloated weapon profiles. "Carnifex Scything Talon", "Screamer-Killer Talons", "Termagant Devourer".

**Arson Fire**

EDIT: Nevermind. Not worth it.

**Matt.Kingsley**

stonehorse wrote:
Arson Fire wrote:
stonehorse wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
stonehorse wrote:

Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

Think you may be over thinking this, GW aren't the best when it comes to explaining their rules, remember the back & forth debate about how many weapons a Monstrous Creature could use in Overwatch due to the wording say may make an attack?

There's really not much to overthink here.
'Scything Talon' is a weapon. You get two of them. Each one grants an extra attack, worded the same as lightning claws (minus the re-roll wounds bit).
Do space marines with two lightning claws not get two extra attacks?

GW have treated Tyranid melee weapons as a pair being equivalent to a single melee weapon since pretty much forever*. Your argument is that the weapon profile lists Scything Talon and not Scything Talons, there for as models have them in sets they get 2 extra attacks.

Prepare to be disappointed, because when GW do their FAQ/Errata they will say words to the effect of treat each pair as a single Scything Talon.

*one exception is Bonesword and Lashwhip combo.

Given that the wargear option list is "... 1 bonesword and 1 lash whip; 1 dual boneswords; 2 rending claws; 2 scything talons", it's very clear that they are two distinct weapons and not 1 paired weapon.

**xttz**

Seeing a lot of predicted changes here, like Rippers on W4, Hive Guard on T6 with flat damage shock cannons, Zoans going to T5 W4 4++. Luckily Neurothropes keep the 3++.

In addition to the obvious ability-becomes-strat like Blinding Venom (which is much more useful now), the same has also happened in reverse. Lots of old strats have been turned into datasheet abilities; such as the Toxicrene preventing enemy units falling back, and very notably the Maleceptor's Encelphalic Diffusion is now a psychic action instead of costing CP!

**Sureshot05**

Just to add to the confusion, the screamer killer has 4 claws (which offer no extra attacks) and 10 attacks total. The regular carnifex has 4 attacks base and can have 4 claws with 1 extra attack each.

Edited, thanks Mat.Kingsley

**Matt.Kingsley**

Sureshot05 wrote:
Just to add to the confusion, the screamer killer has 4 claws (which offer no extra attacks) and 6 attacks total. The regular carnifex has 4 attacks base and can have 4 claws with 1 extra attack each.

The Screamer-Killer Datasheet I'm looking at has 10 attacks, not 6.
It is Ld 6 though, which is next to Attacks.

**H.B.M.C.**

Man, talk about an overcorrection on Hive Guard. I'm kinda surprised they didn't also put their points up on top of all the nerfs.

Wish page 66 was about as then we could see how Adaptive Physiologies are applied. Dermic Symbiosis is there, but now it's just a flat 4+ Invul save with no extra rules.

**Not Online!!!**

i like how unremarkable the fleshborers look in comparison to the other gaunt weapons, completely not remarkable in any way shape or form.

**Valkyrie**

Really surprised at the Gaunt weapon changes. I'm guessing there's a strat to boost Devourers and Spinefists as that's the only way I can imagine anyone taking them over Fleshborers.

**H.B.M.C.**

Devourers cost +1 point. I... wha... ?

Valkyrie wrote:
Really surprised at the Gaunt weapon changes. I'm guessing there's a strat to boost Devourers and Spinefists as that's the only way I can imagine anyone taking them over Fleshborers.

Nope, unless we're missing something.

I mean Pathogenic Slime would work, but that works on all shooting attacks.

**tneva82**

Valkyrie wrote:
Really surprised at the Gaunt weapon changes. I'm guessing there's a strat to boost Devourers and Spinefists as that's the only way I can imagine anyone taking them over Fleshborers.

Well that's fine by GW. They have sold plenty of those before. Time to sell something else instead.

**xttz**

Valkyrie wrote:
Really surprised at the Gaunt weapon changes. I'm guessing there's a strat to boost Devourers and Spinefists as that's the only way I can imagine anyone taking them over Fleshborers.

From a quick glance:
Kronos can give extra range + AP to ranged weapons and can add +1S to ranged attacks (making devs S4 AP1)
Gorgon has armywide poison, including for ranged attacks.
Pathogenic slime strat gives auto-wound on 6's to hit
Tyranid Prime imperative is exploding 6's on ranged attacks.

There's probably other stuff I haven't read yet.

I'm still not convinced they should cost +1pt, but you can likely build lists where devourers outperform fleshborers due to double base shots.

**blood reaper**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Well they made sure Gaunts don't get the good versions of scything talons or devourers:

One day Spinefists will be good...

...one day

**Sim-Life**

blood reaper wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Well they made sure Gaunts don't get the good versions of scything talons or devourers:

One day Spinefists will be good...

...one day

They were good in 4th? They were the go to for that edition.

**nordsturmking**

so nids genestealers vs GSC genestealer:

GSC stealer:
hit on 2+
can advance and charge
always have a 4++
cost 14 points

Nids stealer:
hit in 3+
can not advance and charge
have 5++ and 4++ in CC
cost 16 points

WTF did i miss something?

**beast_gts**

nordsturmking wrote:
WTF did i miss something?

If you discount GW incompetence - they're different units (GSC Purestrain Genestealers v. Tyranids Genestealers) with different stratagems and Auras that can affect them.

**tneva82**

nordsturmking wrote:

WTF did i miss something?

GW being GW.

**Nevelon**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Devourers cost +1 point. I... wha... ?

Valkyrie wrote:
Really surprised at the Gaunt weapon changes. I'm guessing there's a strat to boost Devourers and Spinefists as that's the only way I can imagine anyone taking them over Fleshborers.
Nope, unless we're missing something.

I mean Pathogenic Slime would work, but that works on all shooting attacks.

They charging points for that nerf?

I could maybe see taking some devourers as a free lateral shift. You do get twice the shots. But it’s really only going to be good vs. certain targets (T3 guys with bad armor) or if you have something else leveraging the buckets of dice you are rolling. But 2S and a point of AP is huge.

This is classic GW pendulum balance. Pay for the sins of the last edition. Gold to garbage, never the halfway point of decent.