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 BlackoCatto wrote:
The changes to Imperial Guard are a step in the right direction....

... but they are essentially children's bandages on a .50cal bullet wound that is the army right now.

Those are just a strait copy from the previous changes. They are not new

 Eldarsif wrote:
I am intrigued by the endless nerfing that GW is applying to Death Guard these days. This interesting news taken from Goonhammer.

For Death Guard it’s worth noting that Inexorable Advance will no longer let you count as remaining stationary after you disembark from a transport, so if your plague marines disembark from a Rhino or drill, they need to be within 12” to shoot their Rapid Fire bolters twice, as they won’t count as remaining stationary. Note that this is true even if the transport didn’t move.

Some studio designer got hit really hard by a local Death Guard player, and now they are mad at Mortarion's boys.

Love my plague boys, but I get very little joy in putting them on the table these days.

Man, they tried their best to make Plague Marines even less appealing LOL

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par...

"A whole bunch of rules". So, to put it another way, they need 10 pages of bloat to make them viable?

That doesn't sound like fixing to me...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par...

"A whole bunch of rules". So, to put it another way, they need 10 pages of bloat to make them viable?

That doesn't sound like fixing to me...

What you dont like carrying around a small library to play the game?

 Dysartes wrote:
I think people aren't taking the change about "can't disembark and charge" in context, assuming it is the blue bit on page 8 - that's specifically an errata to the Rare Rules content around Rules that count as remaining stationary, not the general TRANSPORT rules.

Can't comment on Trukks, as I don't have the Ork 'dex, but I don't see anything on the standard Drop Pod referring to "counts as stationary".

Pretty sure this is right.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par...

"A whole bunch of rules". So, to put it another way, they need 10 pages of bloat to make them viable?

That doesn't sound like fixing to me...

What you dont like carrying around a small library to play the game?

*desire for consistently updated electronic rules intensifies*

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par...

"A whole bunch of rules". So, to put it another way, they need 10 pages of bloat to make them viable?

That doesn't sound like fixing to me...

What you dont like carrying around a small library to play the game?

If you complain about the game but you're not willing to consult 5 books, 12 printed out pdfs, a Russian website and two apps in order to play the game then frankly you're just not trying hard enough to enjoy it properly.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par...

"A whole bunch of rules". So, to put it another way, they need 10 pages of bloat to make them viable?

That doesn't sound like fixing to me...

What you dont like carrying around a small library to play the game?

If you complain about the game but you're not willing to consult 5 books, 12 printed out pdfs, a Russian website and two apps in order to play the game then frankly you're just not trying hard enough to enjoy it properly.

LOL are you telling me you dont have your rules in Braille? do you even try to play?

I listen to my rules on vinyl because I'm hip

Wait, neither of you consult the positions of the moon and stars to play your armies? Peasants.

crazysaneman wrote:
Wait, neither of you consult the positions of the moon and stars to play your armies? Peasants.

How do you think i find out if my psyker power does d3 mortal wounds, or d3 mortal wounds.

crazysaneman wrote:
Wait, neither of you consult the positions of the moon and stars to play your armies? Peasants.

I get my rules by casting bones and reading entrails.

I'd rather re-take my Pen Tester certification course that learn to play 40k right now as a new Space Marines player. Hitchens forbid you commit the sin of buying what you think looks cool and walk out of the store with a DW start collecting box. I mean how long are people gonna keep funneling money into GW? That's the only reason this keeps happening. Because dumb butt youtube influencers keep pimping their crap as "unboxing" videos, and then 12 kids go out and buy the Custodes/GSC box. Then learn they need 12 books and a Masters degree in interpretive language to be even allowed to play.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'd rather re-take my Pen Tester certification course that learn to play 40k right now as a new Space Marines player. Hitchens forbid you commit the sin of buying what you think looks cool and walk out of the store with a DW start collecting box. I mean how long are people gonna keep funneling money into GW? That's the only reason this keeps happening. Because dumb butt youtube influencers keep pimping their crap as "unboxing" videos, and then 12 kids go out and buy the Custodes/GSC box. Then learn they need 12 books and a Masters degree in interpretive language to be even allowed to play.

Funny enough, AoS, i have to give credit for, most of the time, you can buy what you think looks cool and make it work fairly well.
I personally love tzeentzch and i love slaves to darkness, and they both work in the same army very well together. I wish there was more of that in 40k, but GW nipped that in the bud when they nuked soup armies.

If GW made 40k like AoS, I'd have no problem. Except for the fact that I still can't buy a 3rd edition BRB in a brick and mortar non GW store.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If GW made 40k like AoS, I'd have no problem. Except for the fact that I still can't buy a 3rd edition BRB in a brick and mortar non GW store.

I think if GW was smart they would allow you to soup like AoS.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If GW made 40k like AoS, I'd have no problem. Except for the fact that I still can't buy a 3rd edition BRB in a brick and mortar non GW store.

I think if GW was smart they would allow you to soup like AoS.

Soup doesn't work in 40k because it leaves factions like T'au and Necrons out being Johnny Nomates while the Imperiums gets to cherry pick from like 50% of the factions in the game.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If GW made 40k like AoS, I'd have no problem. Except for the fact that I still can't buy a 3rd edition BRB in a brick and mortar non GW store.

I think if GW was smart they would allow you to soup like AoS.

Soup doesn't work in 40k because it leaves factions like T'au and Necrons out being Johnny Nomates while the Imperiums gets to cherry pick from like 50% of the factions in the game.

Oh no i agree with that, i mean soup like AoS can to a degree like i think if you play say any imperial army, guard should be allowed to be souped in.
Or if you are playing an occult CSM army, their armies respective chaos god, should have their troop deamons be a troop choice for them as well. Like Tsons should get pink horrors as troops, D guard should get pox walkers. Things like that.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Then there is supplement Deathwatch that requires burning, pretending it never existed, firing of incompetent who wrote it, and redoing it from the scratch based on 8th edition Codex: DW because it's beyond saving on every possible level

I dunno, for a little while there were some podium finishes in big tournaments by Deathwatch lists, even with Drukhari and AdMech stupidity going around. So I don't think they are as bad as you're saying. I'm not saying they're real good either, just not total garbage.

The Deathwatch Specialism stuff isn't great; there are some things I don't like about Special Issue ammo restrictions...

I also thought their Crusade content could have gone a lot farther.

But I like Fortis and Indomitor Kill Teams, and while I'm not sure I'm going to make Spectrus team yet, but I do like the fact that I have the option.

So sure, it could be better... Even a lot better. But it did have a fair bit of stuff in it that I really liked, and that I would hope to see preserved.

 vipoid wrote:
Welp, looks like Talos are dead.

Can you explain why, exactly? Sincerely I think there must be something Im missing. They're a monster, not a vehicle, so the AotF restriction doesn't hit them, and CORE as far as I can find is literally only a thing that maters in 2 places: 1 stratagem "cull the weak" or something which I've never used, and the +1T aura from the Haemie which does next to nothing for them. A bump from T6 to T7 is extremely slight.

AotF caught a nerf, which I think nobody is surprised by, but the nerf to talos/cronos strippign core honestly confused me. pourquoi? what does it do?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Marines disembarking from a Drop Pod now counting as coming from Reserve is somewhat significant. Things like Auspex Scan and Forewarning are much more impactful.

You've been able to shoot marines coming out of a pod for a while now.

The verbiage from 8th to 9th had not changed. I'm yet to encounter a Marine player in 9th that allowed me to use Forwarning at the Marines that disembarked from the drop pod. Reason given by all were the Marines were disembarking and not coming in from reserve. Oh well, it appears clear now that they count as coming from reserve.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Can you explain why, exactly? Sincerely I think there must be something Im missing. They're a monster, not a vehicle, so the AotF restriction doesn't hit them, and CORE as far as I can find is literally only a thing that maters in 2 places: 1 stratagem "cull the weak" or something which I've never used, and the +1T aura from the Haemie which does next to nothing for them. A bump from T6 to T7 is extremely slight.

I don't play Dark Eldar so I'm only looking at this as an outside observer. Can you correct any errors I've made with the following:

1. No one brings Talos/Chronos units.
2. GW makes them cheaper.
3. Everyone brings loads of Talos/Chronos units.
4. GW takes away their Core status, rather than reverting points (or finding a middle ground).

Please let me know what I'm missing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
Can you explain why, exactly? Sincerely I think there must be something Im missing. They're a monster, not a vehicle, so the AotF restriction doesn't hit them, and CORE as far as I can find is literally only a thing that maters in 2 places: 1 stratagem "cull the weak" or something which I've never used, and the +1T aura from the Haemie which does next to nothing for them. A bump from T6 to T7 is extremely slight.

I don't play Dark Eldar so I'm only looking at this as an outside observer. Can you correct any errors I've made with the following:

1. No one brings Talos/Chronos units.
2. GW makes them cheaper.
3. Everyone brings loads of Talos/Chronos units.
4. GW takes away their Core status, rather than reverting points (or finding a middle ground).

Please let me know what I'm missing.

Reverting points would have been better, but GW is still reluctant to do so.

Losing CORE also means Cronos can no longer heal Talos ( Cronos can still heal itself ). The no longer benefit from reroll 1s to wound in melee from Cronos, but I think most people were using injectors.

Also it's that S8 weapons bypass AotF - not that vehicles don't get it, so it's Ramshackle now. It helps. I'm not sure it stops Wrack spam though.

So this kinda affirms what i have been saying GW is blatantly doing.

Model sells like poop
Buff model to be great
Sells great,
Nerf it in line or back into uselessness.
People buy model to replace it.

Thanks for clarifying D.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Reverting points would have been better, but GW is still reluctant to do so.

More that they just released a book full of points that a large section of the community is unhappy they have to purchase in the first place, and invalidating that within a week would cause further pain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par...

"A whole bunch of rules". So, to put it another way, they need 10 pages of bloat to make them viable?

That doesn't sound like fixing to me...

I guess? LRBTs already fire twice. Infantry take orders more easily. Really what would get people excited is actually making the LRBT weapons useful.

The Demolisher is already pretty good considering two LRBTs with Demo and LC have a 7.4% chance to 0 a Knight where two markerlight HH have 3.8% chance. Cadians get rerolls on # of shots with Steel Commander and could both be rerolling 1s to hit if they don't have to move to shoot.

With T'au wound rerolls HH go up to 6.7% chance to zero. Cadian Demo LRBTs with RR1s and RR shots are in the 25% range. Both those models are 155 points. If battlesuits become meta that S10 will for sure be useful.

So there's stuff there, but I'm betting people don't want to deal with the range or switching out weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So this kinda affirms what i have been saying GW is blatantly doing.

Model sells like poop
Buff model to be great
Sells great,
Nerf it in line or back into uselessness.
People buy model to replace it.

Yea, sorry, but that's bull gak.

- GW on record stating they'll dataslate every 3 months, so, anything particularly egregious is going to get tickled to the point that only the top of tournament players will bother jumping around
- GW had put hard caps on more than a few angles reducing the total number of models you'd ever want to buy
- Most severe movements will only promote secondary market and 3D printing
- You're actively ignoring stuff that don't follow this pattern and have no data to support your assertion unless you'd like to show the data as to sales on DG terminators that would precipitate a nerf or demonstrate how no one took PBCs

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Losing CORE also means Cronos can no longer heal Talos ( Cronos can still heal itself ). The no longer benefit from reroll 1s to wound in melee from Cronos,

Losing 1/2 of what thier main power did is slightly annoying. I should've at least been compensated by seeing their pts/PL reduced.

But honestly? I don't see it mattering all that much - because most of my opponents already nuke my Cronos asap so that they WON'T be healing/resurrecting any Talos.

ERJAK wrote:

Points changes and power level changes should never be charged for.

 BlackoCatto wrote:
The changes to Imperial Guard are a step in the right direction....

... but they are essentially children's bandages on a .50cal bullet wound that is the army right now.

I'd say you'll be getting a new Astra Militarum by years end. Given how everything has been so far, I'd say it'll be pretty darn Good!

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If GW made 40k like AoS, I'd have no problem. Except for the fact that I still can't buy a 3rd edition BRB in a brick and mortar non GW store.

I think if GW was smart they would allow you to soup like AoS.

Soup doesn't work in 40k because it leaves factions like T'au and Necrons out being Johnny Nomates while the Imperiums gets to cherry pick from like 50% of the factions in the game.

Well... if 40k would be like AoS we would have grand alliances which would mean Necrons had a chance of allying to someone. I mean, the obvious one would be Orks and Necrons because Necrons are using some device or whatever to control/fool the orks into working with them. I even remember in 7th a few of my friends even played Orks and Necrons together even if it was "Come the Apocalypse" allies.

Tau would also just get back to allying with Eldar. Long live the Taudar.

Fun thought experiment. What if we would create Grand Alliances in 40k:

Order
Imperium(Astra Militarum would be equivalent to Cities of Sigmar)
Aeldari
Tau
GSC with caveats. They are Imperium until they are not.

Chaos
This would probably just be the Chaos Factions like AoS.
Maybe add Astra Militarum with Caveats here as a Slaves to Darkness sort of faction.

Destruction
Orks
Necrons

Hive
(Hive would replace Death)
GSC
Tyranids
Astra Militarum with Caveats

That would be our GA list.

I would however note that GW seems to be scaling back allies in AoS currently because there have been problematic allies much like in 40k. Didn't CoS with Stormcast win last LVO for example?