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The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.

Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?

Yes I’m sure a significant proportion of people who started playing lately suddenly wanted uncompetitive unadvertised character models and will now have their Finecast hopes dashed… this really isn’t the whataboutism you’re looking for!

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.

Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?

With Middle-Earth it's always been announced at least a month before the rotation happens. And stuff that comes back has always stayed at least a year before being swapped out again.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.

Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?

With Middle-Earth it's always been announced at least a month before the rotation happens. And stuff that comes back has always stayed at least a year before being swapped out again.

So one year rotations, thats not bad. Do all come back eventually or some just don't make it?

I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's been rotation specific that has never re-appeared. Stuff that is "oop" currently tend to end up on MTO's like this current one.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yes I’m sure a significant proportion of people who started playing lately suddenly wanted uncompetitive unadvertised character models and will now have their Finecast hopes dashed… this really isn’t the whataboutism you’re looking for!

What whataboutism? Whataboutism would be me excusing something by pointing out that someone else does it too (or does something worse). If you're gonna throw out the names of logical fallacies the least you could do is pick the right one.

Does it need to be a significant proportion for their feelings to be valid as a load of dickish old people belittle them for feeling a bit annoyed that models they would like are not available because said models were available for a long time before they wanted them?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yes I’m sure a significant proportion of people who started playing lately suddenly wanted uncompetitive unadvertised character models and will now have their Finecast hopes dashed… this really isn’t the whataboutism you’re looking for!

What whataboutism? Whataboutism would be me excusing something by pointing out that someone else does it too (or does something worse). If you're gonna throw out the names of logical fallacies the least you could do is pick the right one.

Does it need to be a significant proportion for their feelings to be valid as a load of dickish old people belittle them for feeling a bit annoyed that models they would like are not available because said models were available for a long time before they wanted them?

I’m saying you’re exaggerating the size of your invented-on-the-spot problem. That’s all.

Also dial it down, I’m not attacking you personally but ya seem riled. Just saying don’t pretend this is a huge issue. It isn’t.

FOMO in overdrive. GW is now the Gang that couldn't shoot straight. O.o

They call it "Rotation", I call it scrambling to cut costs, as they lose their market place with this last round of dumb-assed price hikes.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.

Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?

To be fair the large volume of people who wouldn't start an army because the models are over 10 years old or more (looking at eldar) far outweigh those who buy into an army and have burning desire to buy a 30 year old tiny terminator who doesn't fit the aesthetic or setting (looking at the soon to be rotated ru e priest).

There's some odd ones like seth and artemis, who is the only character I can think who will have been out of production, albeit temporarily, twice now.


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 Grot 6 wrote:
FOMO in overdrive. GW is now the Gang that couldn't shoot straight. O.o

They call it "Rotation", I call it scrambling to cut costs, as they lose their market place with this last round of dumb-assed price hikes.

Yes, they're hoping people scramble to pick up those old finecrap models they hate to cover the mass exodus a 5% increase will bring. I hope you enjoy watching people dig up coal as they quit their electricity providers when they hike prices too.

 NAVARRO wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:

Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.

Yes thats it, a new policy for all 40k kits. Surprising that GW publicly admitted they reached saturation and need to do this after a recent production upgrade.
I only remember GW doing such thing when they discontinued bitz many years ago.
Yet many got stuck on the pictures of minis they dont like, so they dont care

They already hit the models I care about...

Sniff...

Good night boys... daddy loves you

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.

The flipside of this is that these models have all been circulating for so very long they should be very, very easy to find on the secondary market.

I don't think any company is obligated to keep everything they ever produce in circulation in perpetuity. GWS does lots of messed up stuff but this really isn't one of them.

I'm not seeing the doom and gloom here like some of the usual posters are trying to say this is. I really don't.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.

What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.

Isn't that the effect that having a miniature only in finecast has? For many, including me, it's the same that it being OOP. And if you see finecast that way there have been glaring holes in many armies for years, and still are. Of course, it doesn't seem to have harmed the success of the game, only the sucess of the neglected ranges. If people end up expecting miniatures to come back at some point it may even reduce FOMO.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.

What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.

Does it though? I’d wager it won’t. Not having core units available? Sure. Odd characters? Not so much. This exercise won’t dent their popularity in the slightest.

And again, a company retiring low sellers? Not unusual. Not ridiculous. Quite sensible. They’ll even bring them back.


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 Grot 6 wrote:
FOMO in overdrive. GW is now the Gang that couldn't shoot straight. O.o

They call it "Rotation", I call it scrambling to cut costs, as they lose their market place with this last round of dumb-assed price hikes.

This doesn’t cut any costs. It simplifies their inventory system. It creates an efficiency. Not the same. The rest of your post is, well, yeah. They’ve lost nowt!

 Matthew Flamen wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.

Isn't that the effect that having a miniature only in finecast has? For many, including me, it's the same that it being OOP. And if you see finecast that way there have been glaring holes in many armies for years, and still are. Of course, it doesn't seem to have harmed the success of the game, only the sucess of the neglected ranges. If people end up expecting miniatures to come back at some point it may even reduce FOMO.

I'd say that's a separate discussion, unless it turns out that this policy only exists for finecast, which would be odd because those models are already direct only and small resin models are probably the easiest material for which to keep models in stock (it's not a big deal to only make a handful of resin models to replenish the stock unlike plastic models and the stock doesn't take up much space).

I'm not a fan of finecast, but I'd still rather have a model in finecast than no model at all.




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 JohnnyHell wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.

What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.

Does it though? I’d wager it won’t. Not having core units available? Sure. Odd characters? Not so much. This exercise won’t dent their popularity in the slightest.

I guess we'll see where this policy leads us when / if it hits a faction that doesn't have 20 old disposable characters in their range.

If the question is do I think this range of Space Marines will have an effect on them, I'd say no, but I can't help but think this policy is going to expand to models that maybe don't generate a large number of sales themselves, but keep the range complete when it comes to other factions.

Are traditional Space Marines even selling these days, or is everyone over onto Primaris now (not talking about people who still play with models they bought pre-Primaris, but rather is anyone still buying traditional Space Marines now?).

But there are plastic minis going into 'rotation'...?



Anyway, I'm sticking with my argument: This is the end for Space Marines as we know it. Soon all the "Not more Marine stuff?" complaints will be a thing of the past, replaced with "Not more Tyranid stuff?".

 xttz wrote:

of course these are explicitly returning at some point later, so no dice today

They also explicitly said they will probably return with the new codex, and could be returning as a new model in a new form i.e. crossing the Rubicon.

I really do think this is a trial to see how much of a FOMO effect they can get to sell stuff that wasn't selling. They're starting with space marine characters specifically because everybody has space marine armies so if you're the marketer whose pet project this is it's a great one to start with to try to show your bosses how much FOMO you can leverage.

Nobody was buying these kits without the FOMO effect, so from GW's perspective it's win-win - if they sell them great, if they don't sell them oh well they weren't going to anyway, and they can just quietly not follow up on it if it doesn't turn out to actually be a profitable way to dispose of otherwise unsellable stuff.

I think you people seriously need to actually learn what FOMO is beyond a buzzword.

As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.

And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.


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yukishiro1 wrote:
I really do think this is a trial to see how much of a FOMO effect they can get to sell stuff that wasn't selling.

I think if you put three rumors/news together:

A) SM 8.0 supplements are supposedly getting redone
B) You can only buy these models until a set point
C) They may return in different forms

I think if they are redoing Supplements - they’re putting them out of reach for a time period so people dont get miffed they bought the old one the week before the new one went on pre-order.

Breton wrote:
As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.

And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.

Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.

I’ll be curious to see if GW drops the “rotated out” models from Codexes, especially if 3rd party versions become more prominent.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I think you people seriously need to actually learn what FOMO is beyond a buzzword.

Just accept that they mean forced scarcity. Or that GW is trying to create artificial demand for models that don't sell very well.
It isn't hard to figure out from the context.

 Laughing Man wrote:

Breton wrote:
As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.

And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.

Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.

I believe they're suggesting that Cassius and Tycho will eventually have new Primaris-scale models of themselves released, despite the characters themselves facing, you know...

Complications.

Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.

 Flipsiders wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:

Breton wrote:
As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.

And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.

Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.

I believe they're suggesting that Cassius and Tycho will eventually have new Primaris-scale models of themselves released, despite the characters themselves facing, you know...

Complications.

Even though I kind of like Primaris I could never collect them because of how GW handled it. They should have just started upscaling marines to be more in line with peoples' expectation of them instead of creating a new breed of marines. I know they were just trying to avoid pissing off old SM players and do it in a way that let them release the line gradually, but I think if they'd just treated it like good ol' scale creep I think it would have worked out better.

PenitentJake wrote:
I am surprised by the number of posters here and elsewhere that seem to be seeing this announcement only through the lens of the list of models that were the first to hit rotation.

This was not an announcement about these 19 kits. It was an announcement about a new policy, which absolutely will affect more models in the range somewhere down the road.

Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.

I really only care about thier rules continuing to exist.
Ideally in a Codex or such, but Legends will work.

Have rules? Then I'm good no matter the availability of the exact models on GWs end. If I can't buy it from GW I'll convert something, scroll Ebay/FB/etc listings, use some 3rd party model, 3d print it....
It's only when the rules for my models go away that I get annoyed (ex: squats. Ex: las-plas Razorback turrets).

I'd be very surprised if we got a Primaris Tycho.

If we do I hope we get a good 3 part Black Library series about the poor serf that had to collect his remains. I hope there's a whole book dedicated to finding his bottom-right-most rib.

They're more likely to Promarisize the original Blood Angel Captain model with boltgun - which they can then give unique rules to!