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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 16:55:28
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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Gert wrote:Deathwatch is fun for a while but it mostly comes down to killing things with little bits of mystery or puzzles. Nobody wants to play a Space Marine and spend their time dealing with court intrigue or mysterious goings on. That doesn't mean it isn't fun, it just makes it a very specific type of fun.
Honestly, it will all come down to who you're doing it with. My group started off fine but then just kept trying to meme their way through encounters I had planned. I eventually ended one of our sessions about 2 hours early and had to take a couple of weeks off before ending the planned campaign about a month early. I firmly believe in the power of the GM/ DM and in their ability to craft stories and missions for the players. When the players start to whinge and make it hard for the GM because they aren't getting their own way, the game is stuffed.
I ran a Deathwatch campaign for a couple years and it was kinda broken. First of all, bolters (especially heavy bolters) in their original, pre-errata incarnation are OP AF, I had a Devastator in the campaign who was gunning down Predator tanks with his. It's also really hard to balance the game to be anything but a curb-stomping for the players, the majority of enemies need to get extremely lucky to even damage a Space Marine. Space Marines also don't really lend themselves to roleplay, which limits the scope significantly, which really wore me down on running the game. I imagine the other FFG settings are funner with more toned-down stats tho.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 17:09:50
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Hecaton wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:Actually playing them is much more difficult. There's just way too much stuff to remember. It's the kind of thing that works way better when there's a computer keeping track of everything and doing all the math. There's a lot of insane granularity for its own sake. Wonderful stuff that feeds the imagination and details the setting, but is just a gigantic mess to actually sit down and play with.
I liked games like that, since it gatekept the casuals out for me.
In the context of a cooperative social game, I'm not sure what exactly a "casual" is in this instance, or why you'd need to keep them out.
For my own part, the detail was great to read about for 40k ultranerds like myself, or people who loved theorycrafting characters and scenarios, but when it came to actual gameplay was often irrelevant or made little meaningful difference, while constantly requiring extra record keeping or rules referencing, and overwhelming lots of people new to the system or setting. It's a lot of 90's era RPG design paradigm, lots of fun to play with the rules and mechanics, not as much fun to actually play the game at a table with a group of people exploring a setting/telling a story. Kinda like Battletech, loved building mechs, playing with all the design possibilities and building new mechs and playing with damage output numbers, etc, but when it came to actually playing a game on a hexmap, and having to manually deal with things like "I'm twisting my Mech's torso so I can shoot in this direction while the feet stay oriented that way" and recording dozens of armor damage points on individual locations on a physical record sheet, it got real old real fast for me and almost everyone I tried playing with, works way better as a PC game where an engagement that would take hours on paper can be played through in 5 minutes with the same ruleset.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 17:15:26
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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AnomanderRake wrote:If you were looking for a dice system to homebrew 40k content on top of Spycraft or Shadowrun might be interesting starting points.
I LOVE shadowrun, great game and system, rules are pretty complicated compared to a lto of systems though. I feel 40k players already versed in more complicated rules interactions it might actually be easier to get a group under the rules system than finding local rpg players willing to learn the system. Honestly i would love to see it adapted to 40k and run like a group of chaos cultists trying to start an uprising or tau sympathizers trying to influence the planet to move over to the greater good. I am going to play with this idea, like literally start developing my overlay to make it work, thanks for the spark here to what may become a campaign!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 17:17:26
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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kurhanik wrote:I dunno, memeing and bullshitting your way through encounters can be some of the funnest parts of the game. As a dm it is often fun to see how the players will break what I have planned - just using Dark Heresy as an example my group spent over half a session planning on how they would show up to a Slaaneshi cult meeting and how to best optimize their angle of attack and what bs excuse they would have for bringing weapons in (most of them involved having the tech priest disassemble them piece by piece and then put them back together in a bathroom stall).
3-5 players will always be smarter than 1 dm, and just winging what the hell happens when they think of something silly and clever is one of the funnest parts of being the dm.
Sure, memes and improv are great fun. As long as they are actually funny and contribute to the session instead of being the baseline for all encounters. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be having fun or shouldn't be creative but when the solution to every single encounter or enemy is "suplex it through the nearest object", you're not a GM anymore you're a babysitter. The players aren't coming up with creative ways to play through encounters or fight enemies, they're just using one fairly busted mechanic to sprint through to the final part of the mission. This same group of players also constantly argued with me as the GM when I wouldn't let them do whatever they wanted to do which isn't how RPGs should be played. When I started working in mechanics to prevent them from doing whatever they wanted, they complained and just stopped playing because they weren't getting what they wanted.
This is what I mean when I say you need to be sure about the group you are doing the RPG with. I like the group I did it with and do video games, pub crawls, and regular Warhammer with them. But RPGs? The group doesn't have the same priorities when it comes to those and it just made for frustrating evenings even when I wasn't the GM.
I'm also not saying there weren't genuinely fun moments in this short-lived campaign. I misread the rules for damage and wounds, believing I had accidentally killed a player character in the first try-out mission. Another time we had our Blood Angels Apothecary roll a perfect Perception roll and then a perfect Hit roll to sense an invisible T'au Stealth Suit and brutally cut it in two with his Power Sword. The problem was these moments where I as the GM let the players do some awesome stuff were massively overshadowed by them arguing with me when I wouldn't let them do things like grapple a Horde or instakill the final boss.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:I ran a Deathwatch campaign for a couple years and it was kinda broken. First of all, bolters (especially heavy bolters) in their original, pre-errata incarnation are OP AF, I had a Devastator in the campaign who was gunning down Predator tanks with his. It's also really hard to balance the game to be anything but a curb-stomping for the players, the majority of enemies need to get extremely lucky to even damage a Space Marine. Space Marines also don't really lend themselves to roleplay, which limits the scope significantly, which really wore me down on running the game. I imagine the other FFG settings are funner with more toned-down stats tho.
I disagree about the roleplay aspect because you can still have the character of the Marine's Chapter, their personal flaws, creed, and culture to drive the narrative. One of the problems for me was that the designated squad leader for every session never took control of their fellow players and just let them rampage about doing whatever. There were no tactics, no communication, and no real teamwork even when more difficult challenges presented themselves. I feel like there are ways to make lesser enemies feel like a legitimate threat when you use them as a tool in the mission objectives. For example, a horde of Termagants isn't going to do damage but if the players have to hold the line and bring a Horde with a magnitude of 150 down to at least half in a given timeframe or their position will be overrun, then the lesser enemies become a problem.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 17:22:03
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Morphing Obliterator
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Dark Heresy/Deathwatch system is pretty bad, it's a bit too slavish in its attempts to ape the tabletop system rather than building their own system.
The setting is great though, specifically Dark Heresy has a lot of potential as long as you can ignore the obvious limitations of the mechanics.
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"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 21:57:59
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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How does it 'ape the tabletop system'?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 22:18:34
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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I enjoy Wrath and Glory, at least after Cubicle7 got a hold of it. Have run a few sessions in it.
It is true that the system allows for all kinds of setups, from a commoner to a Space Marine, but ultimately it is the job of the Game Master to set the limitations and create the final campaign. So if the system does have options for all kinds of species and classes it doesn't mean you have to use them all. It also opens up for alternative campaigns like Ork or Aeldari(or even Kroot), something that the FFG system was sorely lacking in. Automatically Appended Next Post: G00fySmiley wrote: AnomanderRake wrote:If you were looking for a dice system to homebrew 40k content on top of Spycraft or Shadowrun might be interesting starting points.
I LOVE shadowrun, great game and system, rules are pretty complicated compared to a lto of systems though. I feel 40k players already versed in more complicated rules interactions it might actually be easier to get a group under the rules system than finding local rpg players willing to learn the system. Honestly i would love to see it adapted to 40k and run like a group of chaos cultists trying to start an uprising or tau sympathizers trying to influence the planet to move over to the greater good. I am going to play with this idea, like literally start developing my overlay to make it work, thanks for the spark here to what may become a campaign!
I'd argue that Shadowrun 2nd edition(except for the bloody Decking system in it) is the best version and everything after that went so far downhill that I'd count is a sheer drop off a high plateau. The only exception being perhaps 3rd edition which felt more like a 2.5.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 22:20:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/23 22:26:02
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Hold up!
Why was I not told of this earlier? A campaign where the players can only communicate through bird-like squawking here we come!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 00:19:48
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Eldarsif wrote:It also opens up for alternative campaigns like Ork or Aeldari(or even Kroot), something that the FFG system was sorely lacking in.
You could play as an Orks, Kroot or even some varieties of Eldar in the FFG RPGs.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/24 00:19:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 00:32:10
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
Some where in the Canadian deathlands
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Thank you everyone for your input about the 40k RPG games, going to have a steep learn curve ahead of me when and if I can get any of the 40k RPG games, I think I might go for Rouge Trader after all being a quasi legal space prirate sounds appealing to me and if I do get that game I'm naming my first ship the Filthy W***e LOL,that's an old inside joke from way back when. Automatically Appended Next Post: Gert wrote:
Hold up!
Why was I not told of this earlier? A campaign where the players can only communicate through bird-like squawking here we come!
You know I have to ask, in that game would Kroot tipping be considered *Flipping The Bird?*
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/24 00:34:20
" For every Guardsmen lost a trillion more will take his place and deliver the Emperor's wrath upon the scum of the galaxy, be it heretic, xenos or the dirty traitors to humanity. " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 06:58:07
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I've always wanted to play in (not run) a Rogue Trader game.
Sadly every time we've tried it just falls apart.
* The most recent attempt lasted 3 sessions (1 session zero, 1 session of pc creation, & 1 demo session to teach rules. Session 4 wouldve been the start of actual play). It was derailed thanks to a combo of pandemic & politics.
* The most humorous was one? We had 1 GM & 4 players. We were supposed to have a session zero & create characters.
The guy who was to be the GM completely forgot what day we'd scheduled it for, didn't show up, & couldn't be reached. (He thought it was for the next week)
So we fumbled our own way through PC creation & some rules demos.
Player #3 decided this didn't seem like his cup of tea & dropped.
Several days later player #4 got a pretty decent job offer (he was unemployed atm), accepted, & became unavailable.
Player #1 & I decided that a two-player game wasn't what we were looking for.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 08:13:11
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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These don't sound like problems with the game, exactly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 11:37:30
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Paramount Plague Censer Bearer
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I'm a huge GURPS fan. It's a universal system, with no official 40k expansion, but there are a few 40k conversions for GURPS, but they're all just adding weapons and a few various things like requisition. GURPS as a base is deadly and complex, while allowing you to build your character as you like. I recently built a Tech Priest with a Baleful Eye, and I built the stats for the Baleful Eye from scratch using the Innate Attack rules.
But I can never recommend GURPS unless you either know someone who can teach you, or you really, really want a complex system with good combat and amazing character creation.
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‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 13:52:43
Subject: Re:40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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I love the FFG 40k RPGs, particularly Black Crusade (shocking, I know  ). One of the best things about them, IMO, is their cross-compatibility. If you want some void combat in your Black Crusade games? Just grab the Rogue Trader books and import the rules into your games, and your warband can partake in all of the space piracy you want.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 17:36:45
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Never said it was a problem with the game. And I didn't realize that having a problem with the game(s) was a requirement to post thoughts.
As for my thoughts on RT (the RPG)? Well, it passed my initial read-through test. Some things you read & it's just "Nope". Others = "Yes". Some are a "Maybe, let's give it a try". This ones the latter.
Like I said, I'd like to play it at least once. More so based on the IP/background than the mechanics, but we've played other systems with far worse mechanics & had fun.
Other than that I'll reserve judgement on how it actually plays until I've, you know, actually played it. Then I'll be able to determine if I think it did a good enough job trying to do 40k as an RPG mechanically.
Fate though seems set against me playing this....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/24 17:57:53
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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ccs wrote:Other than that I'll reserve judgement on how it actually plays until I've, you know, actually played it. Then I'll be able to determine if I think it did a good enough job trying to do 40k as an RPG mechanically.
Fate though seems set against me playing this....
Depending on how you feel about play by post you could try some of the 40k forums, or here if the mods go for the idea.
You'll need a DM who has a solid grip on the game though as rogue trader groups can be a diverse bunch.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/25 21:50:52
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Battleship Captain
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RPG geek works for play by post too.
And yes, I love the 40k RPGs. There are a ton of different game sets hidden away in the main rules too - it's possible to play Rogue Trader with a pure Ork Freebootaz crew or a Dark Eldar crew, for example.
Technically you can do a pure Tau force too (plus or minus kroot), but with no ships and no earth/air caste characters it plays a lot more like only war/deathwatch (depending on whether the GM is going to let you get your Gundam Wing vibes on).
Equally, there's rules for a Grey Knight campaign, which works rather well and I think is actually a bit less clunky than the Deathwatch version.
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Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/02/27 03:50:00
Subject: 40k Role Playing Games, your thoughts?
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Fixture of Dakka
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A.T. wrote:ccs wrote:Other than that I'll reserve judgement on how it actually plays until I've, you know, actually played it. Then I'll be able to determine if I think it did a good enough job trying to do 40k as an RPG mechanically.
Fate though seems set against me playing this....
Depending on how you feel about play by post you could try some of the 40k forums, or here if the mods go for the idea.
You'll need a DM who has a solid grip on the game though as rogue trader groups can be a diverse bunch.
I'll pass on the PbP option thank you.
Every experience I've ever had with PbP has been excruciatingly slow to resolve - even with systems I'm 100% familiar with & know that I like.
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