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 tauist wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
So I've just read up the reaction rules, yuck. More pointless rules bloat in an attempt to fabricate novelty. Oh well, it's not like I was excited about new HH. And those Beakies look to be Primaris sized too. Such a shame.

The NuBeakies are not Primaris sized, they just have longer thighs than the old ones. So slightly taller, but nothing ridiculous.

Compare this guy to the older Praetor sculpts and you'll get the idea

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/sons-of-horus-legion-praetor-2021

I'll fully admit that my suspicions were enflamed by prejudice. Still I feel with scale creep it's almost a matter of free speech proportions where one has to be an absolutist, perhaps just short of forming a direct action group or it's just a slippery slope straight into corporate communism. They're building camps for firstborn marine models and pretty soon we'll have to turn in our old editions and be forced to play 9th Ed reeducation matches. Which I might just go for just to get a couple games in!

What...

 Hairesy wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
So I've just read up the reaction rules, yuck. More pointless rules bloat in an attempt to fabricate novelty. Oh well, it's not like I was excited about new HH. And those Beakies look to be Primaris sized too. Such a shame.

The NuBeakies are not Primaris sized, they just have longer thighs than the old ones. So slightly taller, but nothing ridiculous.

Compare this guy to the older Praetor sculpts and you'll get the idea

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/sons-of-horus-legion-praetor-2021

I'll fully admit that my suspicions were enflamed by prejudice. Still I feel with scale creep it's almost a matter of free speech proportions where one has to be an absolutist, perhaps just short of forming a direct action group or it's just a slippery slope straight into corporate communism. They're building camps for firstborn marine models and pretty soon we'll have to turn in our old editions and be forced to play 9th Ed reeducation matches. Which I might just go for just to get a couple games in!

This is a very, very odd take. How did you come to this conclusion?

 stonehorse wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
So I've just read up the reaction rules, yuck. More pointless rules bloat in an attempt to fabricate novelty. Oh well, it's not like I was excited about new HH. And those Beakies look to be Primaris sized too. Such a shame.

The NuBeakies are not Primaris sized, they just have longer thighs than the old ones. So slightly taller, but nothing ridiculous.

Compare this guy to the older Praetor sculpts and you'll get the idea

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/sons-of-horus-legion-praetor-2021

I'll fully admit that my suspicions were enflamed by prejudice. Still I feel with scale creep it's almost a matter of free speech proportions where one has to be an absolutist, perhaps just short of forming a direct action group or it's just a slippery slope straight into corporate communism. They're building camps for firstborn marine models and pretty soon we'll have to turn in our old editions and be forced to play 9th Ed reeducation matches. Which I might just go for just to get a couple games in!

This is a very, very odd take. How did you come to this conclusion?

Let me get the doll so I can show you where GW touched me...

We’ll see.

I enjoy playing HH, and am looking forward to 3 HH events at AdeptiCon this weekend. But I would really prefer a reboot. 8th edition style, where everything units, armies, etc, got an update on release and more detailed codecies came later. If that’s even needed.

Bring everything up to 9th edition or wait until next year’s 10th edition and be done with it.

Keeping up with 2 living rule sets sucks.

 kronk wrote:
We’ll see.

I enjoy playing HH, and am looking forward to 3 HH events at AdeptiCon this weekend. But I would really prefer a reboot. 8th edition style, where everything units, armies, etc, got an update on release and more detailed codecies came later. If that’s even needed.

Bring everything up to 9th edition or wait until next year’s 10th edition and be done with it.

Keeping up with 2 living rule sets sucks.

You don't like the fact that 40k and 30k have different rulesets ? Are you playing both games or using your 30k army in 40k ?

 Hairesy wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
So I've just read up the reaction rules, yuck. More pointless rules bloat in an attempt to fabricate novelty. Oh well, it's not like I was excited about new HH. And those Beakies look to be Primaris sized too. Such a shame.

The NuBeakies are not Primaris sized, they just have longer thighs than the old ones. So slightly taller, but nothing ridiculous.

Compare this guy to the older Praetor sculpts and you'll get the idea

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/sons-of-horus-legion-praetor-2021

I'll fully admit that my suspicions were enflamed by prejudice. Still I feel with scale creep it's almost a matter of free speech proportions where one has to be an absolutist, perhaps just short of forming a direct action group or it's just a slippery slope straight into corporate communism. They're building camps for firstborn marine models and pretty soon we'll have to turn in our old editions and be forced to play 9th Ed reeducation matches. Which I might just go for just to get a couple games in!

After looking at the new proportions I cannot unsee them, and when I look a model with the old proportions, I cannot fool myself into thinking I prefer the old proportions. Tis a bitter feeling, but a sobering one.

If you take a look at my build log here on Dakka, you'll se that I've wasted quite a bit of money on the old proportioned models. I should be pissed, right? I do admit being annoyed by it, but I also aknowledge that by cutting my losses and re-investing into the new proportioned models I will end up having an ever better looking army in the end.

You know what I'm actually planning to play with my army once its complete? 1st or 2nd Edition 40K. I can just disregard any and all new rules, it's not going to affect the way I want to play in the slightest. I'm into oldhammer, but not into the old models anymore - Heretical, I know

If HH 2.0 turns out to be a ruleset I enjoy, I will make sure my army will also be fieldable in some capacity for games of those. If I knew people who are playing HH 1.0, I could even play my army with those rules. Rules are forever, just like the minis. You find what you love and stick to it.

Find what you love and stick with it. Wise words, especially considering the price of GW these days!

I have a Primaris army, I won't lie. It's my wife's army, but let's not kid ourselves, I'll be painting it and making decisions about what to add. So I can see full well the differences, and to be honest I prefer the older sculpts. I got into this mess at the tail end of 5th and played until 7th got ridiculous, I mostly quit because I moved away from my group, but the way GW conducts itself did not inspire me to find another. So I'm not exactly pining for tiny Terminators here, lol! I look at those old 80s sculpts and wonder what all the fuss was about, but here is the thing. GW didn't just scale up Marines, they virtually squatted them in favour of a silly new army. If GW had simply upscaled Marines I'd probably have not batted an eye, my collection has seen a fair amount of rotation so that's nothing new to me. In fact everything I own right now is only about three years old! I sold out to fund a big move and only recently got back into it. The plain truth is, I want to play Space Marines, not Primaris. Splitting hairs for some I'm sure but it's got a lot more to do with it than just the awful lore. The kits are going monopose and I just hate that, and the rules are moving away from customization and towards set piece list building. I used to love sitting down with my codex and finangling points and wargear. These days its a simple case of add meta choices until you get to your points limit and I despise it. I don't want the exact same Helblasters as everyone else, I want Heavy Bolter Devastators in Razorbacks, dammit!

So, all that aside I did notice something that gives me hope. My Mk3 Marines are slightly larger than my OG Marines. Not by much, but its noticeable. And it does seem to be in the thighs (where all the good bulk ought to be!) so that is something for me to consider. So I will wait until the product drops and wait for the size comparisons and make my choice then. If it's negligible then I'll give GW just a tiny bit more of my money. As for rules, I think I'm fairly done with updating books. I'll be looking for a 7th edition rulebook to play HH and I'll likely move my 40K games back to that too. It's really just my wife and I playing anyway, so what does it matter? I have caught the 6mm bug anyway so aside from a very few select additions to my forces I'll be moving towards Epic 30/40K. I'm hoping the wife won't notice that the models shrank but the armies got much much larger!

Not a fan of Primaris either. I'm from the Rogue Trader era, Mk VI power armour and Indomitus Terminator armour = Space Marines in my world.

Sticking with 7th edition 40K & 30K might not be a bad idea actually. Lots of synergy benefits there I'd imagine.

I'm still hoping the HH 2.0 rules will be more like 7th edition than 8th/9th..

Pretty much the only thing I would love to see from the new era rules is datacards with all the wargear and USRs on them. But I suppose even that can be had for 7th with some time and effort at the printers.

Also worth a mention, a fellow in the Epic thread in specialist games has been playing 40K rules with 6mm models and that actually looks like a ton of fun. Would be a great way to scale up the points level without breaking the bank or requiring a massive table. I think he was even using 7th Ed rules too, with a few modifiers. Might be a great fit for 30K too since then you can get that feeling of actual Legions facing off.

I think tracking individual men is too much for 6mm on a large scale, you really do want to be lumping squads of infantry into one "base".

But the concept is certainly sound. I think 15mm would be a great scale for 40k.

I am not sure how he took care of that aspect of it since it looked like he had his minis on Epic bases, perhaps dice to show remained models? That is actually a good question and I'm interested to know the answer. Or perhaps they were just treating stands as multiwound models, I'm not sure. Looked quite fun though.

Has anyone thought about the possibility of monstrous creatures changing? I’m not a fan of dreadnoughts changing to MC’s but what if walkers and MC rules are sort of merged to make something new?

The majority of MC’s in heresy are mechanicum (so robots of a sort) what if the MC rules are changed to have facings like a walker and some of the other walker traits?

That's what I would like to see.

I honestly think 'vehicle' rules would suit MCs perfectly fine. Aren't they both heavily armoured shells with squishy bits inside? Just because one has the squishy bits directly connected to the armour and/or uses muscles instead of pistons shouldn't dramatically change anything.

Facings and damage tables all logically apply to MCs.

 godardc wrote:

 kronk wrote:
We’ll see.

I enjoy playing HH, and am looking forward to 3 HH events at AdeptiCon this weekend. But I would really prefer a reboot. 8th edition style, where everything units, armies, etc, got an update on release and more detailed codecies came later. If that’s even needed.

Bring everything up to 9th edition or wait until next year’s 10th edition and be done with it.

Keeping up with 2 living rule sets sucks.

You don't like the fact that 40k and 30k have different rulesets ? Are you playing both games or using your 30k army in 40k ?

I play both games and get crap confused. I am not using the same army for both, no. Too many ineligible load outs for 40k in my Heresy army.

It doesn’t matter now. Today’s announcement is that it will be based mainly on 7th with some changes. So be it. I will just have to deal.

2 different ruleset might be issue if games were complex or complicated but as they aren't.

But... Haven't you be playing any other games ? I used to play LSDA, Warhammer and 40k. Now I'm playing a bit of HH and 40k. They are two different games, with two different rulesets.
It's like if you were playing infinity and Malestrom Edge, would you ask for the two games systems to have the same rules ?
Or maybe it's because you see HH as an add-on of Warhammer 40k ?
Genuine question here !

I can't speak for Kronk, but I don't see a real reason for 30k and 40k to have different rule sets, especially since they're so similar. Remembering similar but distinct rules is harder than remembering rules for completely different systems.

Two different games having two different rulesets, that's how I see it. And by having different rulesets we got more opportunities to have at least one good rulesets
What did you think about the voice of Horus in the trailer ? Lots of people speaking about that in the internet
I believe it was a bit too much personally, but not bad at all

 godardc wrote:
Two different games having two different rulesets, that's how I see it. And by having different rulesets we got more opportunities to have at least one good rulesets
What did you think about the voice of Horus in the trailer ? Lots of people speaking about that in the internet
I believe it was a bit too much personally, but not bad at all

You're not wrong on either count.

On the voice acting I felt, yeah, a bit amateurish/overdone. I get that they're going for late-Heresy, chaos-Horus, but feel they didn't stick the landing on making what he was saying reasonably persuasive (even heroic) and visually juxtaposing it by means of contrast. I know they have the writers. Angron's (of all people...) speech in (I think) Betrayal..?

The fact that they're different rulesets is half the point really. If you want to play HH battles in 40k you already can, you might need to houserule the unique units (although a lot fly close enough to existing units anyway).

Posting this link to a Heresy legion quiz selector, pretty cool!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/25/test-your-loyalties-and-discover-your-legion-in-this-horus-heresy-quiz/

I took it twice, got Raven Guard both times, as I just couldn't feel a better way to answer except for one case, using jump packs vs speeders. Answered differently on this one question, but got Raven Guard. Excited for that.


About HH 2.0, the rules, and what to do with 40K play going forward, Tauist says it for me:

 tauist wrote:
Not a fan of Primaris either. I'm from the Rogue Trader era, Mk VI power armour and Indomitus Terminator armour = Space Marines in my world.

Sticking with 7th edition 40K & 30K might not be a bad idea actually. Lots of synergy benefits there I'd imagine.

I'm still hoping the HH 2.0 rules will be more like 7th edition than 8th/9th..

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think tracking individual men is too much for 6mm on a large scale, you really do want to be lumping squads of infantry into one "base".

But the concept is certainly sound. I think 15mm would be a great scale for 40k.

Let's just say, you are not the only one who has thought that

Awwww

look at them chibi lil things

Wait, I got Night Lords?

Well, I just don't know how to feel about that...

 jeff white wrote:
Posting this link to a Heresy legion quiz selector, pretty cool!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/25/test-your-loyalties-and-discover-your-legion-in-this-horus-heresy-quiz/

I took it twice, got Raven Guard both times, as I just couldn't feel a better way to answer except for one case, using jump packs vs speeders. Answered differently on this one question, but got Raven Guard. Excited for that.

Wow. I got Ultramarines. Guess which legion I'm working on now? Ultramarines.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
Posting this link to a Heresy legion quiz selector, pretty cool!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/25/test-your-loyalties-and-discover-your-legion-in-this-horus-heresy-quiz/

I took it twice, got Raven Guard both times, as I just couldn't feel a better way to answer except for one case, using jump packs vs speeders. Answered differently on this one question, but got Raven Guard. Excited for that.

Wow. I got Ultramarines. Guess which legion I'm working on now? Ultramarines.

Does this mean I have to change my army I'm working on? I'm working on RG but got Night Lords. I knew we were the baddies, but not that bad! Well I can't change now, it's too late to turn back and I can't deny who I am... Oh wait, maybe I see how I got NL...

For some reason it gave me Death Guard. I don't really care much for the death Guard. I prefer dark Angels. er.. I mean First Legion. as in Pre Caliban First Legion. More interesting more mysterious.
Can't figure out why it would spit out Death Guard. Oh well.

I got Iron Warriors. Granted I have a ton of stuff I'm not entirely sure what to do with, but my main Legion is currently Alpha Legion, so....

Sons of Horus for me, which I like. They were going to be my Legion for the Chain of Command mod I was building towards, but then the rumors of a new box and modified scale came out and I put a hold on it.